• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:05
CEST 05:05
KST 12:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !6Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Do we have a pimpest plays list? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1809 users

Do you macro like a pro? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 63 Next
OpTicalRH
Profile Joined June 2011
147 Posts
September 16 2011 17:04 GMT
#101
Amazing post, monsieur.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 17:04:49
September 16 2011 17:04 GMT
#102
so your analysis is that macro is better the higher league you are in. Nothing new but I applaud your effort and it was really well done. A+
Tuxedo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States134 Posts
September 16 2011 17:05 GMT
#103
best post I have read in some time. You sir, are the man!

Dat Ax! I bleed Infinity Seven Black
kommunalka
Profile Joined February 2011
United States550 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#104
excellent post. great graphic presentation of the data and everything.
rG
butchji
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1531 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#105
On September 17 2011 01:39 templar rage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 01:32 butchji wrote:
The Spending Quotient isn't as important for Zergs though? Zergs can mass larvae without spending the money - like when you save 1000 mins 1000 gas to instantly spawn 10 mutalisks as the spire finishes.


He covered this towards the end, saying that the SQ is "insensitive to strategic factors", such as stockpiling resources. It's just a model that can be used to compare macro between leagues in a general sense. Numerous times throughout the post, the OP mentions that differences may occur due to strategic choices.

It was an interesting read. I'll be sure to try it myself when I get home.


Ah, ye didn't read that. Would be more reasonable to put a top macro Terran in comparison instead of IdrA I guess.
heroofcanton
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States167 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#106
Holy crap in a hat. I never thought I would want to use statistics...
The hero of Canton, the man they call me.
SgtPepper
Profile Joined November 2010
United States568 Posts
September 16 2011 17:07 GMT
#107
Wow, lots of pretty graphics O_O. Seriously though , good work.
"After I reconquer Ba Sing Se, I'm going to reconquer my tea shop! And I'm going to play Pai Sho every day."
Badfatpanda
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States9719 Posts
September 16 2011 17:07 GMT
#108
I don't know what to say besides this is awesome, and in tremendous detail.

Thanks
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -Beethoven | Mech isn't a build, it's a way of life. -MajOr | Charlie.Sheen: "What is sarcastic, kids who have no courage to fight?" | #TerranPride #yolo #swag -Naama after 2-0'ing MC at HSC VI
Cuiu
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany410 Posts
September 16 2011 17:08 GMT
#109
man i wish i had such a statistic about me ^^
Nadrav
Profile Joined April 2010
United States86 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#110
Amazing post. This gives me a good idea of where I'm at and what I need to do to improve my play. Thank you.
pvtbonum
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1 Post
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#111
this right here would make an excellent statistics project
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#112
Wow that was really well thought out, I wonder if the 500 income -> doubling thing means GM's need to build an extra production facility or if it's related to lacking only one of the resources
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
sc2trainer
Profile Joined August 2011
63 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#113
Yes, yes I do
skatbone
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1005 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#114
On September 17 2011 01:32 butchji wrote:
The Spending Quotient isn't as important for Zergs though? Zergs can mass larvae without spending the money - like when you save 1000 mins 1000 gas to instantly spawn 10 mutalisks as the spire finishes.


Yea this is something I've been wondering about. Someone else posted the utility of seeing this breakdown by race. As a lowly-diamond toss player, I routinely have a better SQ than my Zerg opponents yet I lose to them. The larva mechanic seems to encourage a different style amongst the races (especially regarding the spending of minerals).

Great OP. Thanks for the effort.
Mercurial#1193
DueSs
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States765 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#115
What's different about this OP is that it not only just gives us information, it also presents a tool for players to use to gauge their macro skill level and provides players with a baseline to see how they are improving over time. Very valuable, in my opinion. I will use this.
willll
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States73 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#116
Excellent post. Nice application of evidence-based approach to SC2. Also, it's nice to see verification once again that good macro (as measured by spending available resources and building more workers) is so crucial to skill level.
"A true man's pride should be his zealots." -Reach
Kuni
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Austria765 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#117
This is an amazing post indeed
bonus vir semper tiro
theprince013
Profile Joined March 2011
United States12 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#118
This is by far the most impressive post I have ever read on a forum. Bar None. Thank you for your time investment in this...
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
September 16 2011 17:11 GMT
#119

So is 0.0016 the slope from the GM curves or bronze curve ?
Depending on what league you are, the formula you gave will yield different results whether you chose games with high income or not.
Can you evaluate the error at max on your SQ that you get from considering that all the lines are parallel ?

The 0.00137 value was chosen as a compromise slope for all leagues - GM is a little shallower, Bronze is a little steeper. This value gave the best separation of the leagues for values in this range. Of course, you could define a more complicated formula in which the slope varies with height to gain a tiny bit more accuracy (although not much - there is a lot of scatter), but I wanted to keep the formula simple and tractable so that it remains a useful tool for all readers.

Did it require a human to sit down and click on all the player names in a division in Starcraft and type the average income and average unspent resources into a spreadsheet? Or did you create a script that can automatically collect this information?

The former, sadly... I do however have all the data stored for any future analyses. And the Skillcraft people may have a method of automating this for the replays they are collecting.


hahahahaha loved the IdrA bit.

Ah, the Leather Gracken. I just couldn't resist putting his mug on the scale. I wouldn't say I'm a huge IdrA fan, but he's a well recognized name.

SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
FILM
Profile Joined September 2010
United States663 Posts
September 16 2011 17:11 GMT
#120
Well this is fucking incredible.
Artosis:  "It's like Detroit in there."   Tasteless:  "Lots of shootings and damaged buildings."
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 63 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Doubles #2
CranKy Ducklings99
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 224
RuFF_SC2 129
ProTech50
Nina 50
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5993
Mind 200
yabsab 40
NaDa 28
Noble 16
Dota 2
monkeys_forever597
NeuroSwarm61
Counter-Strike
taco 651
Other Games
tarik_tv6982
C9.Mang0539
ViBE102
Sick42
Mew2King29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick804
BasetradeTV297
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP42
• EnkiAlexander 37
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• sM.Zik 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt193
Upcoming Events
Escore
6h 56m
The PondCast
6h 56m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 56m
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
12h 56m
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
18h 56m
Replay Cast
20h 56m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 6h
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 15h
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
BSL
2 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
Escore Tournament S2: W6
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.