• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:16
CET 01:16
KST 09:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview2RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1834
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Innova Crysta on Hire
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1147 users

Do you macro like a pro? - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 63 Next
OpTicalRH
Profile Joined June 2011
147 Posts
September 16 2011 17:04 GMT
#101
Amazing post, monsieur.
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 17:04:49
September 16 2011 17:04 GMT
#102
so your analysis is that macro is better the higher league you are in. Nothing new but I applaud your effort and it was really well done. A+
Tuxedo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States134 Posts
September 16 2011 17:05 GMT
#103
best post I have read in some time. You sir, are the man!

Dat Ax! I bleed Infinity Seven Black
kommunalka
Profile Joined February 2011
United States550 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#104
excellent post. great graphic presentation of the data and everything.
rG
butchji
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1531 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#105
On September 17 2011 01:39 templar rage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 01:32 butchji wrote:
The Spending Quotient isn't as important for Zergs though? Zergs can mass larvae without spending the money - like when you save 1000 mins 1000 gas to instantly spawn 10 mutalisks as the spire finishes.


He covered this towards the end, saying that the SQ is "insensitive to strategic factors", such as stockpiling resources. It's just a model that can be used to compare macro between leagues in a general sense. Numerous times throughout the post, the OP mentions that differences may occur due to strategic choices.

It was an interesting read. I'll be sure to try it myself when I get home.


Ah, ye didn't read that. Would be more reasonable to put a top macro Terran in comparison instead of IdrA I guess.
heroofcanton
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States167 Posts
September 16 2011 17:06 GMT
#106
Holy crap in a hat. I never thought I would want to use statistics...
The hero of Canton, the man they call me.
SgtPepper
Profile Joined November 2010
United States568 Posts
September 16 2011 17:07 GMT
#107
Wow, lots of pretty graphics O_O. Seriously though , good work.
"After I reconquer Ba Sing Se, I'm going to reconquer my tea shop! And I'm going to play Pai Sho every day."
Badfatpanda
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States9719 Posts
September 16 2011 17:07 GMT
#108
I don't know what to say besides this is awesome, and in tremendous detail.

Thanks
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -Beethoven | Mech isn't a build, it's a way of life. -MajOr | Charlie.Sheen: "What is sarcastic, kids who have no courage to fight?" | #TerranPride #yolo #swag -Naama after 2-0'ing MC at HSC VI
Cuiu
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany410 Posts
September 16 2011 17:08 GMT
#109
man i wish i had such a statistic about me ^^
Nadrav
Profile Joined April 2010
United States86 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#110
Amazing post. This gives me a good idea of where I'm at and what I need to do to improve my play. Thank you.
pvtbonum
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1 Post
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#111
this right here would make an excellent statistics project
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#112
Wow that was really well thought out, I wonder if the 500 income -> doubling thing means GM's need to build an extra production facility or if it's related to lacking only one of the resources
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
sc2trainer
Profile Joined August 2011
63 Posts
September 16 2011 17:09 GMT
#113
Yes, yes I do
skatbone
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1005 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#114
On September 17 2011 01:32 butchji wrote:
The Spending Quotient isn't as important for Zergs though? Zergs can mass larvae without spending the money - like when you save 1000 mins 1000 gas to instantly spawn 10 mutalisks as the spire finishes.


Yea this is something I've been wondering about. Someone else posted the utility of seeing this breakdown by race. As a lowly-diamond toss player, I routinely have a better SQ than my Zerg opponents yet I lose to them. The larva mechanic seems to encourage a different style amongst the races (especially regarding the spending of minerals).

Great OP. Thanks for the effort.
Mercurial#1193
DueSs
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States765 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#115
What's different about this OP is that it not only just gives us information, it also presents a tool for players to use to gauge their macro skill level and provides players with a baseline to see how they are improving over time. Very valuable, in my opinion. I will use this.
willll
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States73 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#116
Excellent post. Nice application of evidence-based approach to SC2. Also, it's nice to see verification once again that good macro (as measured by spending available resources and building more workers) is so crucial to skill level.
"A true man's pride should be his zealots." -Reach
Kuni
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Austria765 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#117
This is an amazing post indeed
bonus vir semper tiro
theprince013
Profile Joined March 2011
United States12 Posts
September 16 2011 17:10 GMT
#118
This is by far the most impressive post I have ever read on a forum. Bar None. Thank you for your time investment in this...
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
September 16 2011 17:11 GMT
#119

So is 0.0016 the slope from the GM curves or bronze curve ?
Depending on what league you are, the formula you gave will yield different results whether you chose games with high income or not.
Can you evaluate the error at max on your SQ that you get from considering that all the lines are parallel ?

The 0.00137 value was chosen as a compromise slope for all leagues - GM is a little shallower, Bronze is a little steeper. This value gave the best separation of the leagues for values in this range. Of course, you could define a more complicated formula in which the slope varies with height to gain a tiny bit more accuracy (although not much - there is a lot of scatter), but I wanted to keep the formula simple and tractable so that it remains a useful tool for all readers.

Did it require a human to sit down and click on all the player names in a division in Starcraft and type the average income and average unspent resources into a spreadsheet? Or did you create a script that can automatically collect this information?

The former, sadly... I do however have all the data stored for any future analyses. And the Skillcraft people may have a method of automating this for the replays they are collecting.


hahahahaha loved the IdrA bit.

Ah, the Leather Gracken. I just couldn't resist putting his mug on the scale. I wouldn't say I'm a huge IdrA fan, but he's a well recognized name.

SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
FILM
Profile Joined September 2010
United States663 Posts
September 16 2011 17:11 GMT
#120
Well this is fucking incredible.
Artosis:  "It's like Detroit in there."   Tasteless:  "Lots of shootings and damaged buildings."
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 63 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 223
Ketroc 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13733
Shuttle 118
Counter-Strike
Foxcn275
Other Games
tarik_tv12862
gofns6824
summit1g5976
FrodaN3647
Grubby2734
shahzam377
B2W.Neo244
C9.Mang0243
Pyrionflax180
KnowMe162
XaKoH 145
ZombieGrub48
PPMD26
minikerr13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2533
BasetradeTV78
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 62
• Hupsaiya 57
• RyuSc2 35
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 13
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21405
League of Legends
• Doublelift4830
Other Games
• imaqtpie2214
Upcoming Events
All-Star Invitational
1h 59m
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
11h 44m
AI Arena Tournament
19h 44m
All-Star Invitational
1d 1h
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
OSC
1d 11h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.