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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 55

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-19 05:31:20
December 19 2011 05:29 GMT
#1081
edit: Nope, guess I'm wrong.

But I still feel there is something up, since hes averaging an SQ equivalent to IdrA
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
December 19 2011 05:35 GMT
#1082
You can't just say "Oh, his SQ is the same as X pro player's, something must be up because he's not in GM." It's not that simple.

Is the money being spent on the right things, is he actually expanding enough, remembering to produce peons, hitting all his supply buildings on time, controlling his army well while spending his money? etc. etc. etc.

SQ is the equivalent to APM in that way. You have no idea if the actual spending/actions being measured are the correct ones.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
December 19 2011 05:40 GMT
#1083
On December 19 2011 14:35 Nemireck wrote:
You can't just say "Oh, his SQ is the same as X pro player's, something must be up because he's not in GM." It's not that simple.

Is the money being spent on the right things, is he actually expanding enough, remembering to produce peons, hitting all his supply buildings on time, controlling his army well while spending his money? etc. etc. etc.

SQ is the equivalent to APM in that way. You have no idea if the actual spending/actions being measured are the correct ones.

No it certainly isn't like APM.

A high SQ indicates that he is hitting his supply depos and spending his money very well.

Yes, the only other situation I can think of is that he stays on one base for a long time and expands very late. I've played enough ladder games to know that if I could macro as well as Idra then I could easily make it into Masters with terrible micro and decision making......mostly because I'm already in Masters and I consider my self to have poor macro/micro and decision making lol
Eichhorn
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany7 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-19 05:46:17
December 19 2011 05:44 GMT
#1084
Yeah, well, some things I noticed:

a) It's true that I'm not expanding enough or using my macro to apply pressure to my enemy. Therefore, I sometimes find myself in situations, where I'm able to macro as good against an enemy with more bases, but then lag behind when it comes to remaxing after engagements. ( however, I'm at least always staying on 2 bases +, never onebase )

b) I might have to invest more in updates and higher-tier units.

As I said, it's been some time since I last played, but I guess I was at least on the verge of becoming gold. I have loses, where I have like 700 unspent 1800 average ressource collection, which isn't all that bad...guess I was just searching for some encouragement to play again.

At least Spending-Quotient-wise I feel, like I have the potential to get at least to plat-diamond...guess I'll just have to play more ( and overcome ladder anxiety ;< ).

( APM was around 85 as Terran, but that was before the patch )
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
December 19 2011 05:45 GMT
#1085
good macro doesnt make you near GM level, macro is just one small part of the game, it takes doing every single thing well to get into masters or GM, you cant just have good macro and bad decision making/micro, you have to do everything
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
December 19 2011 07:00 GMT
#1086
On December 19 2011 14:45 L3g3nd_ wrote:
good macro doesnt make you near GM level, macro is just one small part of the game, it takes doing every single thing well to get into masters or GM, you cant just have good macro and bad decision making/micro, you have to do everything


this

You can have all the macro in the world, if you engage badly it won't matter
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-19 07:09:24
December 19 2011 07:08 GMT
#1087
On December 19 2011 14:40 Dommk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 14:35 Nemireck wrote:
You can't just say "Oh, his SQ is the same as X pro player's, something must be up because he's not in GM." It's not that simple.

Is the money being spent on the right things, is he actually expanding enough, remembering to produce peons, hitting all his supply buildings on time, controlling his army well while spending his money? etc. etc. etc.

SQ is the equivalent to APM in that way. You have no idea if the actual spending/actions being measured are the correct ones.

No it certainly isn't like APM.

A high SQ indicates that he is hitting his supply depos and spending his money very well.

Yes, the only other situation I can think of is that he stays on one base for a long time and expands very late. I've played enough ladder games to know that if I could macro as well as Idra then I could easily make it into Masters with terrible micro and decision making......mostly because I'm already in Masters and I consider my self to have poor macro/micro and decision making lol


No, a high SQ could also mean that he's getting supply blocked and spending his money on buildings while he waits to get unblocked.

The relative usefulness of the SQ calculation without context is almost exactly the same as APM measurements.

You don't understand what you're talking about.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-19 07:20:18
December 19 2011 07:19 GMT
#1088
On December 19 2011 14:40 Dommk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 14:35 Nemireck wrote:
You can't just say "Oh, his SQ is the same as X pro player's, something must be up because he's not in GM." It's not that simple.

Is the money being spent on the right things, is he actually expanding enough, remembering to produce peons, hitting all his supply buildings on time, controlling his army well while spending his money? etc. etc. etc.

SQ is the equivalent to APM in that way. You have no idea if the actual spending/actions being measured are the correct ones.

No it certainly isn't like APM.

A high SQ indicates that he is hitting his supply depos and spending his money very well.



That's wrong. SQ doesn't indicate how you macro, all it does is measure if you keep your money low.
Goody had in the survey an average SQ of 95. Nothing personal against him, but his mechanics / macro are/is bad, his facotries are fully queued, he's 2 minutes supply blocked and so on.
wat
Dalavita
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1113 Posts
December 19 2011 07:45 GMT
#1089
On December 19 2011 14:16 Eichhorn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 01:22 Dommk wrote:
You will honestly improve your macro much faster by just hammering out ladder games


Well, I've already stated that I know that Yabot doesn't matter that much. Still, even though I lose nearly 50% of my games, I maintain a SQ of about 85 in silver ladder games...my macro already seems to be quite good, so other factors have to be the reason I lose. ( already had some speculations there @ decision-making/micro/scouting )


Link a replay and we'll tell you what's wrong. Make sure it's a 3+ base 200/200 20 minute game
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-19 09:44:01
December 19 2011 09:31 GMT
#1090
On December 19 2011 16:08 Nemireck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2011 14:40 Dommk wrote:
On December 19 2011 14:35 Nemireck wrote:
You can't just say "Oh, his SQ is the same as X pro player's, something must be up because he's not in GM." It's not that simple.

Is the money being spent on the right things, is he actually expanding enough, remembering to produce peons, hitting all his supply buildings on time, controlling his army well while spending his money? etc. etc. etc.

SQ is the equivalent to APM in that way. You have no idea if the actual spending/actions being measured are the correct ones.

No it certainly isn't like APM.

A high SQ indicates that he is hitting his supply depos and spending his money very well.

Yes, the only other situation I can think of is that he stays on one base for a long time and expands very late. I've played enough ladder games to know that if I could macro as well as Idra then I could easily make it into Masters with terrible micro and decision making......mostly because I'm already in Masters and I consider my self to have poor macro/micro and decision making lol


No, a high SQ could also mean that he's getting supply blocked and spending his money on buildings while he waits to get unblocked.

The relative usefulness of the SQ calculation without context is almost exactly the same as APM measurements.

You don't understand what you're talking about.

Maybe on one base.

Spending money on buildings when supply blocked (at last at 2+ bases) does NOT keep your resources low, mostly because you tend to either float minerals and/or gas for sometime after a supply block. The unspent minerals eventually get spent after the additional production kicks in.

I only play Protoss/Zerg, but you don't ever see a Protoss make an additional robotics just because they got supply capped, it just doesn't work that way. (Maybe in very late game situations or they are really desperate for Colossus).

I don't play Terran so I'm not quite familiar with how queuing on average helps keep your SQ low, but if the above poster is true about Goody maintaining a SQ of 95 then I guess things like supply blocks don't phase Terran as much as Protoss or Zerg when it comes to expenditure
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
December 19 2011 10:35 GMT
#1091
I'm a diamond and I've examined my own results and found some interesting results:

- That my average is a little higher than where you expect!
- Games where I lose are some 20 points higher than games where I win, putting me in 'idra' level.
- The longer the game, the more likely that I win.

The most hilarious example is a game I won where my SQ is 42, and a game I lost where I am at 87.

This implies to me that the SQ only really can be measured in games where your opponent GGs, where you are constantly trading armies and where you immediately go for the killing blow upon being maxed instead of trying to starve your opponent to death.

Because of this its pretty much not useful for categorizing how good your play is; strategy is far more important than can be accounted for by averaging.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
llKenZyll
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States853 Posts
December 19 2011 12:27 GMT
#1092
Nice post. Was a good read. i feel like the things that happen in a game can really effect your SQ, so it wont be 100% accurate
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nd6nd/tang_in_his_natural_habitat/
Keyboard Warrior
Profile Joined December 2011
United States1178 Posts
December 19 2011 12:43 GMT
#1093
Yes I macro like a pro.

Great writeup.

Thank you for the effort
Not your regular Keyboard Warrior ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Happylime
Profile Joined August 2011
United States133 Posts
December 21 2011 02:15 GMT
#1094
I wonder if we should adjust these stats as a variable of time the game has been out, I feel like the top pros should be improved since september.
Get busy living, or get busy dying.
Hydrox911
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom261 Posts
December 21 2011 02:21 GMT
#1095
Just wondering on the workers created it looks like it goes down for gold and for bronze, how is this possible as it is workers created? Is the graph not accurate or what ?
No, Your Quote.
pulpSC
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States31 Posts
December 21 2011 02:26 GMT
#1096
On December 21 2011 11:21 Hydrox911 wrote:
Just wondering on the workers created it looks like it goes down for gold and for bronze, how is this possible as it is workers created? Is the graph not accurate or what ?


The graph is showing that they don't create workers at a constant rate when it gets later into the game. The graph I also believes it taking into account workers being killed, I believe.
KiWiKaKi
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada691 Posts
December 21 2011 02:35 GMT
#1097
yes
ur pro or ur noob , thats life
JennLOL
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States11 Posts
December 21 2011 16:58 GMT
#1098
Ooh. I'm a nerd and my brain really thanks you. Study, study. ^^!
❤ JLin
Troxle
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States486 Posts
December 21 2011 19:10 GMT
#1099
I've read a bunch of posts and I think a lot of people are misinterpreting the post. I've done a lot of playing with the SQ number, and sitting on 1 base and only like 10 SCVs, I can get an SQ number in the 95-100 range. So don't look TOO deeply into this number unless you are constantly producing SCVs and taking expansions. Also if your just building units to build units, you might get a higher SQ number, but if you aren't scouting and taking advantage of positioning or better army composition, the SQ number again means nothing. So just because you "macro like a pro" doesn't mean you actually macro like a pro. Scouting plays a big part typically in a pros macro.
If you're homophobic, you're probably ugly, so don't worry about a gay guy coming onto you. - jarrydesque
MtlGuitarist97
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1539 Posts
December 21 2011 20:44 GMT
#1100
Anyone saying that their macro is as good as a pro, check your worker production. If it's not perfect, than obviously your income will be lower, which means that your spending will be lower
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