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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 41

Forum Index > SC2 General
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To3-Knee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada100 Posts
September 19 2011 14:41 GMT
#801
I would think the style you choose to play would affect your SQ. My shorter games where I'm doing a strong timing push, I am able to keep my money very low and get an SQ in the 90s (when income was greater than 500. Drawn out macro games and my SQ drops to 60s. If I always pushed for shorter games, my average SQ would naturally increase. Mid-diamond player for reference.

It's a pretty cool analysis regardless. I think it's quite useful in general and definitely shows where the average player in a league sits. I just think individual analysis of a player's SQ isn't going to show much information.
Fatze
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany1342 Posts
September 19 2011 14:42 GMT
#802
great article - took me more than 1 hour in reading and understanding this stuff
Comfort from bottles, cheers from beers the guitars are our weapons and we know how to kill!
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
September 19 2011 14:58 GMT
#803
next release of sc2gears should calculate and average SQ!
Rannasha
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands2398 Posts
September 19 2011 15:02 GMT
#804
On September 19 2011 23:58 DusTerr wrote:
next release of sc2gears should calculate and average SQ!


I don't think the SC2 Replay files include enough information on spending and income. The replay-files are pretty much a sequential list of actions taken by the player. Build X, attackmove unit Y to location Z, etc... Without an actual SC2 client to interpret these actions, you can't determine how much resources a player has at a certain time. You can find out when someone orders a "build SCV" command, but not whether the command succeeds (enough money / supply). You can find out when someone orders a Helion to attackmove into a mineral line, but not how many SCVs it killed.
Such flammable little insects!
nocfg
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4 Posts
September 19 2011 15:43 GMT
#805
On September 19 2011 23:41 To3-Knee wrote:
I would think the style you choose to play would affect your SQ. My shorter games where I'm doing a strong timing push, I am able to keep my money very low and get an SQ in the 90s (when income was greater than 500. Drawn out macro games and my SQ drops to 60s. If I always pushed for shorter games, my average SQ would naturally increase. Mid-diamond player for reference.

It's a pretty cool analysis regardless. I think it's quite useful in general and definitely shows where the average player in a league sits. I just think individual analysis of a player's SQ isn't going to show much information.



yeah this is totally what I was trying to write with this:

On September 19 2011 20:15 nocfg wrote:
I really like the idea of the SQ and I would like to see something similar added in the statistics after every game, so players can instantly see whether their macro was allright or not and whether they improved or not, but I have the feeling that firstly your SQformular is not perfect and secondly the scale you gave us is wrong too!

When reading your scale-graph it says:
masters average is about 72
GM average is like 82
and IdrA reaches 88

My problem with this is, I am a highplatin zerg in EU and my SQ in ladder is about 70-80 (which does not fit to my leagueplacement in the slightest) and when playing custom against AI I can reach 110 SQ (just tested and had a game with like 1560 income and 350 unspent).
I of course do know that custom games against AI are huge differently than laddergames, but my experiment was only to show, that the formular is either not bringing in enough variables or lacks the right way of relativizing Income and Unspent.

Other than that you did a great job with your thread and I for myself am using the SQ to check whether my macro struggled and to see improvements. So thank you for that!



the SQformular is not perfect and does not scale at endgame-stages well enough
TimmyMac
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada499 Posts
September 19 2011 16:02 GMT
#806
Are you a grad student by chance?
Heinsenzerg
Profile Joined September 2011
Argentina2279 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 17:44:44
September 19 2011 17:43 GMT
#807
I don´t know if this has been said as I´ve read the article but none of the responses, but you should publish this on a scientific journal of some sort (at least send it so they can referee it) adding only an introduction as to explain to science nerds what starcraft is.

What I mean is your article is basically a scientific paper that holds water, congrats
To3-Knee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada100 Posts
September 19 2011 17:48 GMT
#808
On September 20 2011 02:43 Heinsenzerg wrote:
I don´t know if this has been said as I´ve read the article but none of the responses, but you should publish this on a scientific journal of some sort (at least send it so they can referee it) adding only an introduction as to explain to science nerds what starcraft is.

What I mean is your article is basically a scientific paper that holds water, congrats


I think getting a peer reviewed scientific journal to accept this work is a far stretch. There isn't much "innovation" or significant advancement into any research area that I can see here. All that really comes out is "Better players macro better and here is a decent scale to measure that on." You can see some correlation and gather some statistics. Not really an academic paper.
Heinsenzerg
Profile Joined September 2011
Argentina2279 Posts
September 19 2011 18:18 GMT
#809
On September 20 2011 02:48 To3-Knee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 02:43 Heinsenzerg wrote:
I don´t know if this has been said as I´ve read the article but none of the responses, but you should publish this on a scientific journal of some sort (at least send it so they can referee it) adding only an introduction as to explain to science nerds what starcraft is.

What I mean is your article is basically a scientific paper that holds water, congrats


I think getting a peer reviewed scientific journal to accept this work is a far stretch. There isn't much "innovation" or significant advancement into any research area that I can see here. All that really comes out is "Better players macro better and here is a decent scale to measure that on." You can see some correlation and gather some statistics. Not really an academic paper.


There are volumes of papers that are mere reviews of a specific subject

There are volumes of papers that are mere desciptions of situations that arise in an academic enviroment

Not every paper has signifcant advancement or innovation, in fact that kind of scientific paper (true innovation and significant advancement) is scarce
DeaDEmperor
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway18 Posts
September 19 2011 19:05 GMT
#810
Got 75, nice. Guess i got good enough macro for my level atleast.
Bow before me!
eljezuz
Profile Joined August 2011
Mexico33 Posts
September 19 2011 20:52 GMT
#811
i must say, what an amazing article!! here in TL, most of articles are good but this one is another level of awesomeness!
... Top 3 Control!!!
Alfalfa
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada26 Posts
September 19 2011 22:51 GMT
#812
Very awesome post. It's nice to see people do things like that. I find those research very interesting ad it proves that SC is not just a game, it is really serious. Also, I would really like to see how did yoou come up with the SQ equation.

Keep up the good work!!!!
SenkZ
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands15 Posts
September 20 2011 00:11 GMT
#813
Im a Diamond level player on the EU server, and this SQ calculator is averaging me on 88. What i find a bit high for my level of play :/

[image loading]

You can add me on SC2 to check:
SenkZ.528
RZAMazz
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada30 Posts
September 20 2011 01:11 GMT
#814
my mind has been officaly blown away
Mirosuu
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
England283 Posts
September 20 2011 03:31 GMT
#815
Whoa... I just calculated my SQ over my past 10 games where I had an income over 600 (to prevent cheeses from distorting the values).

Average of 74. If only I could improve my decision making, then I could push out of that damn Plat division I've been stuck in for 2 seasons. I am significantly better than my division lets me show. When I'm practiced, I have beaten Masters players in a tournament setting, but when I hit the ladder I just can't seem to win. =/
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
raebodupdep
Profile Joined June 2011
United States11 Posts
September 20 2011 03:47 GMT
#816
Thank you for the post.
It's a trap!
edc
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States666 Posts
September 20 2011 04:21 GMT
#817
A analysis and graph on macro itself? Great job! I can't wait for your 1000th post!
“There are two kinds of people in this world, those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.” - Clint Eastwood
leperphilliac
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States399 Posts
September 20 2011 04:32 GMT
#818
Great post 0_0 I calculated mine using the last 13 games (I took in 15 but two of the games were me offracing so I took that out) and I got 59.7. I'm a middling plat, so this score predicted it PERFECTLY. Also, I have a goal to work on - improving my SQ score!
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 06:17:27
September 20 2011 06:13 GMT
#819
I have officially decided that terran is a breeze to macro with, and I am wondering if this holds true for most leagues. Of the last few games where I go a standard terran strategy I have gotten:
90.6
93.7
98.1

Thats with a 1 rax expand and having 60-70 workers around 15-20 minutes in. These were all TvP's/TvT's though, perhaps vs a zerg that harasses more frequently my macro would slip, or if I was needing to make more careful pushes. I am fairly certain that it would slip further if I was doing drop harass and such too, but... I digress.

I am testing how far I can go with basically pure macro though, should at least be an interesting test.
doomscythe
Profile Joined June 2011
61 Posts
September 20 2011 06:56 GMT
#820
Impressive post

Q1. How would you deal with the difference of data produced in games where a lot of harassment occurred and those without?

Q2. It is commonly agreed that the platinum players of SEA / NA is much lower than KR, do you have any plan to include data from other servers as well?
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