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Do you macro like a pro? - Page 42

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Alric
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia517 Posts
September 20 2011 09:48 GMT
#821
Really great analysis. This should help me improve my macro - my SQ turned out to be lower than my league average, so now I know what I need to improve.
"...he drew from his robe one of the five Eblis Stones, and for a few moments it made him an equal of Balor. The rest of the Legion was sacrificed... to give us time to take Balor's head."
spravv
Profile Joined June 2011
Netherlands3 Posts
September 20 2011 10:18 GMT
#822
Niceeee!

Ret = OP
dNo
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden11 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 10:36:42
September 20 2011 10:35 GMT
#823
I really liked this post and has done a simillar spredsheet as the one that has been posted where I follow wins/losses, workers constructed/min of playtime and sq-rate.

I really like this research and I think it has a sound foundation. It really gives an indication on how and where to try to improve to get to the next level. Especially in the lower divisions where a lot of us are struggling with figuring out what mountain of improvement potentiall to try to assess first. For me Ive spent the last couple of days since this post to try to get my SQ-rate up and really seen an improvement in games won. I already knew that keeping my money low was something I had to work on but had no good way of tracking progress.
I really think that this is a good way to track progress and not in any way an indication on "what league I should be in". Theres unarguably more variables to take note of that isn't messurable in numbers (atleast not yet, still waiting for the skillcraft studie to present some results).
Maintaining creep spread, overlord placement, expansion timings, , to mule or scan, chrono on workers or gates etc.
My suggestion is use the SQ to see if this is an area you can improve on, if it is then you can start here. If it's not, then you probobly need to look at something else to improve, try to improve micro without loosing SQ, try to scout more without loosing SQ. Be more aggresive etc.

You can still use the SQ-rate while improving in other areas of your game.

Thank you for the post and hope you find more ways to help the community in this manner, GJ =)

All opponents are OP!
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
September 20 2011 13:03 GMT
#824
@senkZ

You have impressively low unspent resources. As others have mentioned, keep in mind that just because you have a Grandmaster level of SQ, it does not mean you would maintain it if you were to now play against Grandmaster level players. The additional harassment would likely affect your spending. Having said that, you have a remarkably high SQ for a Diamond level player; this is clearly an area of the game in which you are very strong. It suggests to me that you should look to other areas of your play to make the jump to Masters.

Out of curiosity, do you follow a very regular build in each matchup, and if so, to approximately what supply is your build precisely mapped out to?

@doomscythe

I don't currently intend to do an analysis of this scale on another server, but others with data from multiple servers may be able to (e.g., Skillcraft). However, I am currently preparing an analysis of pros from various servers, which will be interesting in terms of determining the skill ceiling for each server. I will need to seek some help from the community to pool data from multiple servers though, as I only have a NA account.
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
bicameral2
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1 Post
September 20 2011 13:43 GMT
#825
this is great. thank you
Telenil
Profile Joined September 2010
France484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 14:15:10
September 20 2011 14:14 GMT
#826
As everyone says, amazing post. Careful justifications and cross-checking, what more could we ask for? =)
Mass Recall: Brood War campaigns on SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
Archduke
Profile Joined May 2010
United States119 Posts
September 20 2011 14:56 GMT
#827
What a fantastic post. Easily the best stat analysis I've seen on TL.net.
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines."
Formenithil
Profile Joined June 2011
4 Posts
September 20 2011 15:01 GMT
#828
It's great. Thanks a lot. Excellent tool to work with. Once more thx, very good analysis.
scorch-
Profile Joined January 2011
United States816 Posts
September 20 2011 17:23 GMT
#829
I'm curious that if you found someone without looking at their league, how confident you would be saying they are in X league because their SQ is Y.
TG_Lelouch
Profile Joined August 2011
United States134 Posts
September 20 2011 17:57 GMT
#830
wth...amazing you spent this much time to analyze it rofl
KainiT
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria392 Posts
September 20 2011 18:05 GMT
#831
I hope nobody has said that already, but wouldn't it be rather easy to include the spending quotient in sc2gears? Afaik sc2 gears is analyzing the replays anyways. I guess the op and the makers of sc2gears should have a talk^^
With great power comes great responsibility.
Xanthyz
Profile Joined July 2011
United States42 Posts
September 20 2011 22:17 GMT
#832
@whatthefat: Unless I missed it, I'd really be interested in seeing the average and standard deviations on SQ for each of the leagues. Or maybe even better, could you make the original data available for download?
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
September 20 2011 23:35 GMT
#833
On September 17 2011 01:29 Linz wrote:
I. am. impressed.
Never tought I'd see logarithmic functions a game forum ;-)
Joking aside, very well tought and written out guide, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say: thank you so very much!

Welcome to TL! We love stats
Jaedong.
SenkZ
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands15 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-20 23:59:32
September 20 2011 23:58 GMT
#834
On September 20 2011 22:03 whatthefat wrote:
Out of curiosity, do you follow a very regular build in each matchup, and if so, to approximately what supply is your build precisely mapped out to?


Well i do 1 rax expands most of the time because i feel my macro is quite ok. For the rest of the game i try to scout and counter what i see, and try to find weakness in my opponent. So my build is mapped to like 35 supply or so in most matchups. In pvt i mostly add 2 rax after expand and factory/engi bay depending on situation. In pvz i mostly reactor hellion expand in bfh drop in tank/rine/medvac. In tvt it could go any way .
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1285 Posts
September 21 2011 00:09 GMT
#835
My aim in this game has been to always have the highest resource collection rate but at the same time having the lowest average unspent resources.

However, when I attack is when I stop building additional probes and focus on building units to attack with. My chain of thought on economy vs building army with protoss is when I'm on 2 bases, i can support 6 gates, 1 robo(colossus), forge, citadel whilst constantly building probes, when I hit full saturation and stop probe production, then I can logically add 2 more gates which essentially puts me semi-allin'ish if I don't take a third.

In your stats, I believe the most 'effective' samples are the games that are between 12-17 minutes in length, it shows who has the tightest build orders and the ones who can multitask well, thus keeping their SQ the best as possible.
sup
Temporarykid
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada362 Posts
September 21 2011 00:10 GMT
#836
haha wow this is such a great thread; I really enjoyed all the pictures to go with your text. (Tbh I don't think I would have been able to digest it all without the pictures!)

And was I the only person trying to find Idra's dot in all of the grandmasters scatter graphs?
ㅈㅈ
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
September 21 2011 02:48 GMT
#837
Well, I've been judging my ladder play compared to the way I play my mapped out stuff against the computer without harassment. Mapped out against the computer my SQ is around 90-94 on a 16 minute game but against other players on the ladder it is around 60 and I'm in diamond.

I guess I have to mention that I zone out and play like a zombie on ladder and mess up everything due to anxiety of playing against another player. I guess it just goes to show how far I could get if I could put all those problems behind me.
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
oldahe
Profile Joined May 2010
Austria534 Posts
September 21 2011 09:33 GMT
#838
whatthefat, great post! let me guess: economics major?

thanks
Brainiak
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany91 Posts
September 21 2011 16:20 GMT
#839
Great Post, i agree with your math.
Just one question:
When i type in my results i have results from 86-74. To the contrary i am high dia. Does that mean i have such bad micro that sets me back 1-1.5 leagues?
“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill
Xyik
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada728 Posts
September 21 2011 16:27 GMT
#840
Obviously this is not going to be completely accurate, theres lots of things like game sense and general strategy that will you back leagues (e.g attacking at choke points, engaging an army vs. splitting and sniping expos, watching for drops, etc. etc.)
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