On September 08 2011 20:38 Jenia6109 wrote: Why i dont like GSL: 1) Protoss suck more and more every season 2) Most series are TvT. Though it's interesting MU but it becomes boring when u must watch it so much 3) It hasn't youtube chanel (like nevake) and i must watch chineese commentaries which are just bad 4) Zerg suck too 5) Players dont seem enough hardcore. They seem more like celebrities than like sportsmen 6) Balance is bad after all T>all 7) There is no dominating players yet 8) Game is too young 9) Two semifinals Bo5 in one day is bad... 10) Bo7 is bad...
This sounds to me as if some of those points then should apply to more SC2 events, not only the GSL...
1), 2), 4), 6) Terran is dominating pretty hard everywhere atm, not only in the GSL. I agree that it seems like it's the worst in Korea, and that Korean Terrans seem pretty much unstoppable, and I certainly understand that people do not always enjoy watching a thousand TvTs in a row. I feel the same, even though TvT is usually the mirror MU I like to watch the most. But balance-whining surely isn't a GSL phaenomenon
3) Why is not having a youtube channel an issue? There is an English cast and VoDs are available... Am I missing something here? I don't really understand why you would have to watch Chinese casting?
5) o.O Code S has the top notch of players. Many people would say that it doesn't get any more hardcore than this. (That doesn't necessarily mean top notch games, unfortunately, as they can still be boring and not entertaining. That doesn't make players less hardcore, though, imo.)
7) I think because it's not all set in stone yet makes it more exciting and fun to watch. We have yet to see who will become legendary.
8) Another point that you can't apply exclusively to GSL o.O Yes it is young. But it is as young in GSL as it is in MLG... As stated above, I think the reason for a lot of the excitement is that everything is still developing and players are still figuring things out, which can make for surprising new strats and awesome games. Though I personally think that after a year it is already starting to develope a bit slower. I may be wrong there, but it's just what it felt to me lately.
9), 10) Why exactly do you feel that way? Just curious, because I personally enjoy longer series, even though I have to say that when it's a TvT it can be REALLY exhausting to watch....
I don't know why people are saying TvT is boring. ZvZ and PvP is like rush-fest / 1 mistake you lose. Imagine the GSL terran situation is all switched to Zergs or Protoss, I think people would complain about all the ZvZ's and PvP's way more than they complain about TvT now.
TvP is pretty bad as well atm with all the 1-1-1s
The other MUs TvZ and PvZ is decent, and you can argue they're better than TvT all you want, but imo TvT is still one of the top 3 most interesting MU
I believe the problem lies mainly with the seeding system, why let the players choose their opponents? why not follow an established, mathematically valid system for placement of players in the brackets?
Also it would be better if the RO32 is not a dual Tournamet system but rather a round robin or a BO3 format.
The Dual tournament system may have worked for Broodwar but does not mean that Starcraft 2 should do the same , after all its not the same game, trying out something new won't hurt :D
On September 08 2011 21:29 sprychipper wrote: I believe the problem lies mainly with the seeding system, why let the players choose their opponents? why not follow an established, mathematically valid system for placement of players in the brackets?
Also it would be better if the RO32 is not a dual Tournamet system but rather a round robin or a BO3 format.
The Dual tournament system may have worked for Broodwar but does not mean that Starcraft 2 should do the same , after all its not the same game, trying out something new won't hurt :D
I think for several reasons: (not that I agree that they are good reasons)
1) It creates drama. The match selection show thingy is the closest thing that a lot of the typical drama hungry westerners had been asking for, and even for most other viewers, it is indeed very interesting and refreshing.
2) Unlike MLG, GSL is single elimination, so you can't distinguish between 3rd and 4th place w/o playing a meaningless placement match, same for 5th-8th, 9th-16th,and 17th-32nd etc. Therefore, it is really hard to have a valid seeding system w/o looking at previous seasons (ie using GSL point rankings), but that in itself potentially comes with a lot of other new problems as well (just look at MLG)
Mekare, the guy doesn't want to have to pay for the VODs. Youtube and Liquipedia are valuable sources for finding games when it comes down to BW. GOM doesn't have anything sorted and they don't hide spoilers. They still have a long way to go. -_-
You can call it hardcore all you want. There is close to no drama in the GSL. It's just a pain in the ass to follow and their finals are as anticlimactic as MLG's extended series rule coming into effect. People want drama. Now, what's the best way to infuse drama in the Korean scene? Make the players make selections by inserting a group stage and have them explain their logic. Group stages also allow the players to get more games in against others and it allows them to lose a game and not much more.
We need more rivalries. Player Selection ceremonies would go a long way to bring more drama. Make the players talk more.
The other guy wants them to stretch out their calendar. Something I don't really mind. I would like the players to have more time to prepare myself to insure we get the best games possible.
On September 08 2011 21:29 sprychipper wrote: I believe the problem lies mainly with the seeding system, why let the players choose their opponents? why not follow an established, mathematically valid system for placement of players in the brackets?
Also it would be better if the RO32 is not a dual Tournamet system but rather a round robin or a BO3 format.
The Dual tournament system may have worked for Broodwar but does not mean that Starcraft 2 should do the same , after all its not the same game, trying out something new won't hurt :D
I think for several reasons: (not that I agree that they are good reasons)
1) It creates drama. The match selection show thingy is the closest thing that a lot of the typical drama hungry westerners had been asking for, and even for most other viewers, it is indeed very interesting and refreshing.
Requiring drama i can Understand, but why club that with player seeding? Why not play a show match ? why not do a Monobattle? there are so many things that they can do with the amount of Talent there. :D
2) Unlike MLG, GSL is single elimination, so you can't distinguish between 3rd and 4th place w/o playing a meaningless placement match, same for 5th-8th, 9th-16th,and 17th-32nd etc. Therefore, it is really hard to have a valid seeding system w/o looking at previous seasons (ie using GSL point rankings), but that in itself potentially comes with a lot of other new problems as well (just look at MLG)
This
The reason I say that they need to try out a new system rather than the one currently in place .
We need more rivalries. Player Selection ceremonies would go a long way to bring more drama. Make the players talk more.
You realise they do this at the beginning of every Code S season, right? All Code S groups are hand-picked by the players themselves. Seriously, if you don't know anything about the GSL, then shut up with your criticisms.
Although I agree they should bring back the interviews with Artosis, outside of Code S players just don't have any personalities at all for us.
Why are people saying GSL might be losing popularity? Where does this argument come from? Did I miss an article somewhere saying they're selling less tickets this season or that the average number of spectators has gone down? Can someone link to it?
Terrans dominating Code-S, almost no Protoss, Nestea eating everyone(MVP survived him this season)
There are simply too many Terrans in Code S right now, several of them sub-par caliber (MKP getting back into Code-S? please) and it's hurting the GSL as a whole. The fact losira was literally cheesed out of Code-S this season was embarrassing. Most PvP is simply who 4-gates more effectively. There is a lot of stagnant play among the top elite and it leads to boring seasons.
Not sure what can be done but it has to be done fast or MLG is going to easily overtake them. Mind you Korean Terrans dominating every MLG so far hasn't really helped in any way either,
On September 08 2011 21:38 StarStruck wrote: Mekare, the guy doesn't want to have to pay for the VODs. Youtube and Liquipedia are valuable sources for finding games when it comes down to BW. GOM doesn't have anything sorted and they don't hide spoilers. They still have a long way to go. -_-
You can call it hardcore all you want. There is close to no drama in the GSL. It's just a pain in the ass to follow and their finals are as anticlimactic as MLG's extended series rule coming into effect. People want drama. Now, what's the best way to infuse drama in the Korean scene? Make the players make selections by inserting a group stage and have them explain their logic. Group stages also allow the players to get more games in against others and it allows them to lose a game and not much more.
We need more rivalries. Player Selection ceremonies would go a long way to bring more drama. Make the players talk more.
The other guy wants them to stretch out their calendar. Something I don't really mind. I would like the players to have more time to prepare myself to insure we get the best games possible.
I may be wrong but I believe they do this every season at the start of code S to make groups. Also it is pretty entertaining to watch. MC pretty much made fun of killer on behalf of Huk. I think most people just don't watch it as much since they don't publicize it much. Lemme see if I can find a link.
At this point, my brain gets infested with worms just thinking about watching a TvT
This is why GSL is so unappealing atm, this does also apply to other events - but it just seems so much worse in korea.. Havent been watching the last matches (semis, finals) in MLG latley either due to korean terran domination
3) Why is not having a youtube channel an issue? There is an English cast and VoDs are available... Am I missing something here? I don't really understand why you would have to watch Chinese casting?
this is one of the reasons why i don't watch. gsl's the only tournament that doesn't provide either free vods/replays or a free stream which doesn't require installation of an external proprietary media player. not that i'd actually be rushing to watch it in any case if they did have an in-browser stream unless i could get the korean stream easily
GSL is great sure they're are alot of tvt's but Terran seems to be the trend at the moment. Sorry that protoss and zerg players aren't able to step their game up. And try qualifying for Code A. It is sooooo hard. Best way to get into Code S in my opinion. I dont want no open bracket crap seeing randoms in Code S. Keep it up GOM. You guys are great
What you need to do next season is watch code A, GSTL, then select carefully which days of code S you'll want to watch This code S season had a lot of terrans already, but the brackets and group made it so we didn't have that much TvT. Next season tho perhaps it'll be different with again some more T.
Losing entertaining value? What are you talking about? This season MVP has fought and defeated 3 previous GSL champions. MLG will never have something like that... you guys seems to just like people cheering at Koreans when they take away foreigner money, and seeing Idra smashing his headphones.
If there's a lot of TvT, blame Dustin... not GomTV(t)
EPT
sure they're are alot of tvt's but Terran seems to be the trend at the moment. Sorry that protoss and zerg players aren't able to step their game up. And try qualifying for Code A. It is sooooo hard. Best way to get into Code S in my opinion. I dont want no open bracket crap seeing randoms in Code S. Keep it up GOM. You guys are great 
