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On September 08 2011 15:52 blooblooblahblah wrote:
As for the excitement, i think MLG is more exciting because it is significantly shorter with a ton of games. MLG is a 3 day tournament so it will always have an excitement edge over a 1 month tournament like GSL which stretches out over a long period of time. Also, MLG gives a rare chance to see Koreans vs Foreigners which is exciting to a lot of ppl, while in GSL, most of the matches are Korean vs Korean.
I think GSL is far more exciting than MLG, mostly because of the extended series finals every single time, in a korean vs korean final it's EXTREMELY unlikely that they guy who's down two games will win.
But to be fair GSL finals have also been terrible, but at least they're starting even on 0-0.
Overall I agree with incontrol about the MSL/OSL parts though, having less GSL's would definitely help.
They could just do two months of team-league or something and then one month of GSL with an even larger prizepool, and have a lot of time between games starting at ro8 and just build hype.
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When I started to watch more GSL, it was just a way to get some information about Korean players that we don't see often / at all in international events so that if they do get invited or qualify for international tourneys I don't stare blankly at their names and wonder why the community is having nerdgasms while I sit there asking "who the hell is that?"
I hoped to be more excited and pumped when we get another Korean dominated top 8 in any given foreign event.
So far my plan has worked out a little, but not to the extend I thought it would.
By now, most of the time I tune in to the GSL broadcast it ends up being more of a background noise that I listen to while I do other things (to the point where I enjoy listening to Tastosis talking between the games more than the actual cast of the games). There are still some great games, and some I still watch with interest, but those are significantly less than when I started watching Code S.
I can't really say why I can't get more excited about the GSL, be it Code A or Code S. I think partly because it is so dragged out. I can't really stay hyped up from one show to the other. In that regard, I like the MLG (or other 2-4 day offline events) more, but of course the big down side is that a tight schedule will always lead to great games not being casted, which can be really really upsetting. Personally, I dislike some parts of both the MLG's and the GSL's format, but in general I can readily accept the format as it is and still enjoy the games - if they are enjoyable.
Which leads me to another thing that others have also mentioned before is that the games seem kind of stale sometimes. Many games seem to be less dynamic. Maybe that is because the older the game gets, new strategies and counterstrategies will develope a bit slower. A lot of things have been figured out, and as long as they work and nobody comes up with a counter, there is no reason a player should not use them, even if it results in less entertaining games.
But that way it happens that there you get a great match-up, but the games end up to be just not that entertaining, not living up to the expectation the big names promised.
Maybe another factor for that is that since the Koreans started to travel to (and stomp through) tournaments outside of Korea and we see them compete in front of hyped up crowds in hyped events, GSL has lost some of its taste. It's not the only event we get to see Koreans play anymore (which is a good thing, of course, but I think it also leads to GSL losing some of it's uniqueness (is that even a word? o.O))
I should say that I do not share many people's dislike of mirror games, and that I usually enjoy TvT the most. But too much is too much. I really think that this is an issue, but none that can be solved by the players or the GSL. A different format would not stop Terran dominantion or create new strategies.
I guess for me GSL will stay a form of light entertainment that runs in the background, an in-between-big-events thing to provide me with my needed dose of SC2.
That being said, time to tune in to the Up-and-Down matches 
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More national pride than sense?
If you ask any Top 10 player in the world (all koreans) , which tournament would you rather win, the GSL or MLG ? It's not hard to guess.
And for good reason.
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On September 08 2011 15:51 MoriyaGXP wrote:Code A has alot of zerg and protoss so less terran  on Code S side so less zerg and protoss and alot terran GSL is balance imo
say what?
Code A: 9 P, 15 T, 8 Z
Code S: 8 P, 17 T, 7 Z
The upcoming season (October) has a somewhat balanced code-a. 10 P, 8 T and 11 Z. But the upcoming code-s has 18 T at the moment.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_August/Code_S
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_August/Code_A
Myself I can't put the finger on why my excitement for GSL is getting lower. I'm still buying tickets and watching every foreigner + recommended series/sick players versus each other. Think it might have something to do with the long format and the fact that I'm not really a big fan of any of the current players. There's HuK, but nobody else really. Hoping Hero and code-a foreigners do well, might get me pumped again
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On September 08 2011 17:51 baubo wrote:
A lot of things Gom can't rectify. But one thing they can rectify is that god awful observer. I don't know how many times I see stuff happening on the minimap and the observer just shows random stuff that doesn't matter. I think one time I actually saw a drop on the minimap, and all the stuff died, and the observer still doesn't cut to it.
If you want to make viewers think they're watching the most gosu players doing the most gosu stuff, you might want to show them that. IMO, this is why I love watching Korean BW games a lot more than foreign tournaments. The Korean observer is so good at catching details that really show how much better the players are than regular guys like me.
So true.
It happens far too often the observer misses something that would be worth seeing and/or important.
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For me there are too many GSLs.. Wait more time between them and make them more longer would be better for sure.. Like BW OSLs
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On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.
User was warned for this post
Warning or not this man speaks the truth...
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I paid for all GSL content since start, but I do have to admit I watch less these days, a few personal reasons:
I'm skipping most TvT's. I go to gomtv to watch some sc2 vods and only to see 4TvT today and close the site. Not GSL's fault, but I can't help it either
The lack of personalities. There are a few great characters, like MC, july, Huk, but most of the time I feel no emotion for either player and couldn't care less who wins.
Korean high mechanic, good mannered, high skill robot X vs korean robot Y. Yes I miss Idra. Too few BM, too many boring, nice and polite players, "i want to thank my mum and dad for supporting me", too few drama.
I recently stopped liking the Korean pro's attitude towards global SC2 growth, which doesn't help for me getting excited to watch their matches either.
- Top GSL koreans not going to foreign tournaments because they want to focus on GSL.
- Koreans earning GSL code S via MLG and then not coming back to MLG.
- Koreans boycotting NASL. "We only have the GSL, we need more tournaments. Hard to get sponsors or earn money with SC2 in Korea. So a group of people create a new tournament, great prizemoney. But, hey, it's not how we want it, change it, until then we won't come."
Their choice of course. My choice to not like that choice
I'm actually looking forward to the NASL in a way I haven't been for any Gomtv content in a while. Although the level might be a bit less, I feel like the entertainment value will be a lot higher, because there will be more more errors, errors I make myself when playing, errors that I can learn from. But alos more characters, more entertaining personalities.
I love Tastosis, but I'm not sure if Tasteless is actually still playing the game...
I really miss the lovely silly Artosis/John interviews after the games, with awkward questions from the forum. Can't understand why they removed those.
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On September 08 2011 18:08 Ighox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 15:52 blooblooblahblah wrote:
As for the excitement, i think MLG is more exciting because it is significantly shorter with a ton of games. MLG is a 3 day tournament so it will always have an excitement edge over a 1 month tournament like GSL which stretches out over a long period of time. Also, MLG gives a rare chance to see Koreans vs Foreigners which is exciting to a lot of ppl, while in GSL, most of the matches are Korean vs Korean. I think GSL is far more exciting than MLG, mostly because of the extended series finals every single time, in a korean vs korean final it's EXTREMELY unlikely that they guy who's down two games will win. But to be fair GSL finals have also been terrible, but at least they're starting even on 0-0. Overall I agree with incontrol about the MSL/OSL parts though, having less GSL's would definitely help. They could just do two months of team-league or something and then one month of GSL with an even larger prizepool, and have a lot of time between games starting at ro8 and just build hype.
Don't they have to win 2x series in MLG's format too, even if it's not extended series? Might as well be down four games.
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My only problem is imbalance of the game, I mean what was the last time you saw Protoss beat Zerg in Code S or in Up/Down matches. Before the game starts you just know protoss will lose, doesn't matter who plays. Trickster just lost to Violet and Trickster is better player, but can't beat Zerg, now way.
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on the other hand, when players have to play 20 games against all different races, all within a weekend, they have no time to prepare for each match, then they start playing for standard openings, and produce longer, more entertaining games, since they just dont have the time to analyse an opponents playstyle and develop a build to counter. so to have abusive builds, they have to be developed and played essentially blind, which is a huge risk, and so you get players willing to rely more on playing standard games, and let their overall skill, whether it be micro and game or decision making take over, and thats where entertaining SC2 is produced.
Yes, I just love seeing every pro do the exact same complete standard build for a whole weekend straight. That's just awesome. I don't want to watch new strats at all, watching the same stuff over and over and over again is just so cool.
BUT TOO MUCH TVT OMG
My only problem is imbalance of the game, I mean what was the last time you saw Protoss beat Zerg in Code S or in Up/Down matches. Before the game starts you just know protoss will lose, doesn't matter who plays. Trickster just lost to Violet and Trickster is better player, but can't beat Zerg, now way.
Trickster isn't better than Violet, and he hasn't been good for a pretty long time.
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well... terran players are just the best, most talented and have the best micro, and untill there is someone better you can't do too much about too many terrans in coode S ;]
unless you want them to invite destiny ;]
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If Code S is losing value, it's because there is SO MUCH Starcraft to watch that I can't watch all of it - I have to select carefully the best bits (persons I want to see most) and ignore the rest. If for me there's only HuK and MC in Code S, of course it may be boring. Some others may prefer other persons, but you get the point.
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GSL has not been interesting for a long time now... nothing new...
Mainly due to terran and unfortunately they keep sending korean terrans to mlg's as well.
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MC isn't in code S anymore. Even if he was protoss can't win. Maybe that new patch will balance something.
Code S became Terrans vs Nestea, who will win.
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Next Code S will be nightmare 18+ T vs 14- Z&P --- it has no sense for paying GSL atm for me becouse i just dont like TvTs at all.
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Even when games are boring I like to listen Tastosis analyse games, but I really can't stand Moletrap who is commentating like every other day. Doa and Wolf are good but It gets weird when Moletrap makes a bad joke.
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On September 08 2011 18:50 Aiurr wrote:
well... terran players are just the best, most talented and have the best micro, and untill there is someone better you can't do too much about too many terrans in coode S ;]
unless you want them to invite destiny ;]
I'm obviously not speaking as an expert here. But from what I see, assuming both players play at similar levels, I just generally expect Terran > Zerg > Protoss.
I have seen many times when terran plays sloppily and win. I have rarely seen any time when zerg or protoss make a mistake and not get horribly punished by such a mistake. Honestly, I just feel like zerg or protoss always has to "pay more attention at any given time". Because once you screw up, you're dead. You can defend 10 drops perfectly and that 11th one may kill you. You may defeat 10 terran pushes and screw up one time and have your templars get emped once, you then die. There seems very little margin for error.
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JYP vs violet PvZ wonder who will win this one..
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I have seen many times when terran plays sloppily and win. I have rarely seen any time when zerg or protoss make a mistake and not get horribly punished by such a mistake. Honestly, I just feel like zerg or protoss always has to "pay more attention at any given time". Because once you screw up, you're dead. You can defend 10 drops perfectly and that 11th one may kill you. You may defeat 10 terran pushes and screw up one time and have your templars get emped once, you then die. There seems very little margin for error.
I disagree, terran play in Korea just feels a lot more refined and thought-through than protoss or zerg play, it probably has to do with the population of the race. There's just so much more terran players than protoss or zerg players, so they generally find new strategies and counter strategies and exploits much, much faster. Terran players have been dropping, using multi-pronged attacks and just generally using every single unit in their arsenal for months now, while MC has just found out the warp prism is, in fact, a protoss unit. For the same reason TvT is just, by far, the most refined matchup out of all of them.
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EPT
