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On September 08 2011 14:00 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 13:53 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On September 08 2011 13:30 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 13:20 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On September 08 2011 13:10 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 12:59 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:58 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 12:37 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:34 bokeevboke wrote:
I don't watch GSL since april. The time is very convenient for me, but somehow I got bored. I think its the game itself. And have nothing to do with too many terrans.
SC2 feels dull, plain and boring. It all became, who practices more, who makes less mistake, whether cheese/allin works or not, and most importantly who is luckier. lol what? i would've suggested the best sport for you to watch be competitive dice rolling since you dont need to practice, wont make mistakes and theres nothing all in~ish about it, but apparently you hate luck too.... what do you want? I hate to bring bw here, but I don't have a better way to explain it. I think the best example would be GGPlay vs Iris starleague final. The game was epic! back and forth, a lot of multitasking that even korean casters couldn't keep up, fierce battles in multiple locations, i was literally sitting in the edge although i was watching vod and already knew what happened. Sorry to tell you but none of the above happen in SC2. And I can't event bring up any scenario thats happening in SC2. Everything dies to fast in a blink of eye. one minute you have 200/200 next minute you lost the game. Complete nonsense. but im sure ggplay and iris both practiced a lot too >_> and i don tthink they were aiming to make mistakes either I have nothing against practicing or making less mistake. my point is that sc2 lacks something which i tried to explain in my post. On September 08 2011 13:01 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On September 08 2011 12:58 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 12:37 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:34 bokeevboke wrote:
I don't watch GSL since april. The time is very convenient for me, but somehow I got bored. I think its the game itself. And have nothing to do with too many terrans.
SC2 feels dull, plain and boring. It all became, who practices more, who makes less mistake, whether cheese/allin works or not, and most importantly who is luckier. lol what? i would've suggested the best sport for you to watch be competitive dice rolling since you dont need to practice, wont make mistakes and theres nothing all in~ish about it, but apparently you hate luck too.... what do you want? I hate to bring bw here, but I don't have a better way to explain it. I think the best example would be GGPlay vs Iris starleague final. The game was epic! back and forth, a lot of multitasking that even korean casters couldn't keep up, fierce battles in multiple locations, i was literally sitting in the edge although i was watching vod and already knew what happened. Sorry to tell you but none of the above happen in SC2. And I can't event bring up any scenario thats happening in SC2. Everything dies to fast in a blink of eye. one minute you have 200/200 next minute you lost the game. Complete nonsense. So there's a lot of hate for SC2 players bashing on SCBW, but how come SCBW players can say ignorant things about SC2? Please leave scbw alone and focus on my point. That was just an example. give me a fucking break. there is obviously SCBW fanboyism in your post, how can I ignore it? SC2 is one year old. Being a fan of SCBW is great and all, but it doesn't give you automatic clairvoyance in SC2. You make it sound like this will all SC2 will ever be, despite of its young age. if you like something more than another that doesn't make you fanboy, does it? I already regret I mentioned bw here. "SC2 is one year old" is lame excuse. I bet after 8 year fans will cry "look, scbw evolved 10 years, just give us 1 more year". But I hardly believe sc2 will live that long. hope I'm wrong. by the way when you mock and ridicule another game because you like another game instead counts as being a raging fanboy. if you only like SCBW then you will say "I like SCBW and I am not really into SC2." That's what Day[9] would say. I'm posting this one and quitting this thread. It looks like I'm flaming and being flamed. whatever. Back on topic, the topic was why GSL is becoming less entertaining. Several people stating its because tournament format, schedule, timing, balance and so on. I was telling the reason is game itself (game design to be exactly). I don't see any potential of sc2 to evolve into smth good. believe me i tried all scenarios in my head. I brought scbw to make an example, and thats all, I'm not a fanboy. its just my opinion on why GSL boring. I see no reason to bash me for that. And hey I still like playing 3v3 in SC2, its most entertaining thing for me.
Well that doesn't really explain why the OP is more interested in MLG than GSL though.
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On September 08 2011 08:19 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 07:53 ZeromuS wrote:
My issue is that I play protoss. Protoss has very little representation in the GSL. I do not learn anything from watching TvT which is the most common matchup. Therefore, while I might watch a TvT finals or semi finals, I do not particularly enjoy watching TvT because there is nothing for me to learn from the matchup. That is the only reason I dont enjoy GSL as much as I used to, How most Protoss players feel summed up perfectly.
you guys do realize that next seasons code a will have an extreme amount of protosses
some of em will go to code s the season after that
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On September 08 2011 14:10 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 08:19 QTIP. wrote:On September 08 2011 07:53 ZeromuS wrote:
My issue is that I play protoss. Protoss has very little representation in the GSL. I do not learn anything from watching TvT which is the most common matchup. Therefore, while I might watch a TvT finals or semi finals, I do not particularly enjoy watching TvT because there is nothing for me to learn from the matchup. That is the only reason I dont enjoy GSL as much as I used to, How most Protoss players feel summed up perfectly. you guys do realize that next seasons code a will have an extreme amount of protosses some of em will go to code s the season after that
The amount of Protoss get into code S < the amount of Protoss got kicked out of code S. So eventually it will be very few left. For example next SS we're just gonna have 5-6 protosses compare to other seasons.
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On September 08 2011 13:43 BarbieHsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 06:02 lizzard_warish wrote:
I can put my finger on why GSL is getting boring, and so can most people from what I've seen; watching thirty tvt's in a row is fucking gay.
User was warned for this post He said it wrong, but I think he's right. Too many TvT's, and T's in general. A couple of tournaments ago, they stabilized the Code S lineup by making it so only the bottom placer of the group fell out to up and downs. They did it at a bad time: there were so many Terrans for whatever reason. It is thus harder now for the T dominated composition of S to change. Even assuming that the game were completely balanced, then Terran would continue to have majority representation in Code S. The only way this can change is if Terran becomes the WEAKEST race, so Terrans start dropping like flies. But that's not fair. Another solution is to let the bottom two of the group go to up and downs. That may be more fair. In ANY case, it's not the players, it's the race, IMO.
So players like Bomber, MVP, MMA, and Top are in Code S because they are terran? Nestea won twice in a row and last season he didn't lose a single game the whole way there. It is all meta game, terran raped because they started to use marine blue flame and zergs were in this pigeon hole of ling bling muta no matter what and they were being extremely greedy. Now that they are making 2 spines, getting speed quicker and even making roaches these hellion openings are becoming very ineffective and the match up is something like 53-47% in the favor of the Terran which is not something anyone can say says a whole lot about the balance. Code A is filled with protoss and honestly players like MC really are not showing anything new to keep up with the meta game and are getting drowned out by new strats (Check vs MC Up and downs).
On topic. GSL is fine, just NA cares more about NA tournament and it's free to watch it live in good quality and time with free vods. The way the tournament is set up is great and is like an actual season instead of 5-6 stand alone tournaments that MLG has. If MLG actually makes the events matter and seem to build up to something then I would be more interested. But in 3 months when Naniwa, Thorzain, and Fenix are working their way from code A to Code S, tell me it isn't fun as hell to watch. I know I would watch Demuslim religiously if he was trying to get into code A because he is my favorite player and gives me the extra incentive to watch because he is a fellow brit and not just another really good korean.
Holy wall of text.
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best thing would be Semi Finals on Friday and Finals next day...or something like that. 1 week of practice is too much and is a big reason why GSL finals are so boring.
Dunno if it would change a lot tough, but GomTv should give it a try
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I don't find it boring yet, but TvT is getting real old and is probably turning off a lot of viewers :S Unfortunately, Gom can't really do anything about this.
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On September 08 2011 14:10 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 14:00 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 13:53 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On September 08 2011 13:30 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 13:20 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On September 08 2011 13:10 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 12:59 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:58 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 12:37 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:34 bokeevboke wrote:
I don't watch GSL since april. The time is very convenient for me, but somehow I got bored. I think its the game itself. And have nothing to do with too many terrans.
SC2 feels dull, plain and boring. It all became, who practices more, who makes less mistake, whether cheese/allin works or not, and most importantly who is luckier. lol what? i would've suggested the best sport for you to watch be competitive dice rolling since you dont need to practice, wont make mistakes and theres nothing all in~ish about it, but apparently you hate luck too.... what do you want? I hate to bring bw here, but I don't have a better way to explain it. I think the best example would be GGPlay vs Iris starleague final. The game was epic! back and forth, a lot of multitasking that even korean casters couldn't keep up, fierce battles in multiple locations, i was literally sitting in the edge although i was watching vod and already knew what happened. Sorry to tell you but none of the above happen in SC2. And I can't event bring up any scenario thats happening in SC2. Everything dies to fast in a blink of eye. one minute you have 200/200 next minute you lost the game. Complete nonsense. but im sure ggplay and iris both practiced a lot too >_> and i don tthink they were aiming to make mistakes either I have nothing against practicing or making less mistake. my point is that sc2 lacks something which i tried to explain in my post. On September 08 2011 13:01 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On September 08 2011 12:58 bokeevboke wrote:On September 08 2011 12:37 kKagari wrote:On September 08 2011 12:34 bokeevboke wrote:
I don't watch GSL since april. The time is very convenient for me, but somehow I got bored. I think its the game itself. And have nothing to do with too many terrans.
SC2 feels dull, plain and boring. It all became, who practices more, who makes less mistake, whether cheese/allin works or not, and most importantly who is luckier. lol what? i would've suggested the best sport for you to watch be competitive dice rolling since you dont need to practice, wont make mistakes and theres nothing all in~ish about it, but apparently you hate luck too.... what do you want? I hate to bring bw here, but I don't have a better way to explain it. I think the best example would be GGPlay vs Iris starleague final. The game was epic! back and forth, a lot of multitasking that even korean casters couldn't keep up, fierce battles in multiple locations, i was literally sitting in the edge although i was watching vod and already knew what happened. Sorry to tell you but none of the above happen in SC2. And I can't event bring up any scenario thats happening in SC2. Everything dies to fast in a blink of eye. one minute you have 200/200 next minute you lost the game. Complete nonsense. So there's a lot of hate for SC2 players bashing on SCBW, but how come SCBW players can say ignorant things about SC2? Please leave scbw alone and focus on my point. That was just an example. give me a fucking break. there is obviously SCBW fanboyism in your post, how can I ignore it? SC2 is one year old. Being a fan of SCBW is great and all, but it doesn't give you automatic clairvoyance in SC2. You make it sound like this will all SC2 will ever be, despite of its young age. if you like something more than another that doesn't make you fanboy, does it? I already regret I mentioned bw here. "SC2 is one year old" is lame excuse. I bet after 8 year fans will cry "look, scbw evolved 10 years, just give us 1 more year". But I hardly believe sc2 will live that long. hope I'm wrong. by the way when you mock and ridicule another game because you like another game instead counts as being a raging fanboy. if you only like SCBW then you will say "I like SCBW and I am not really into SC2." That's what Day[9] would say. I'm posting this one and quitting this thread. It looks like I'm flaming and being flamed. whatever. Back on topic, the topic was why GSL is becoming less entertaining. Several people stating its because tournament format, schedule, timing, balance and so on. I was telling the reason is game itself (game design to be exactly). I don't see any potential of sc2 to evolve into smth good. believe me i tried all scenarios in my head. I brought scbw to make an example, and thats all, I'm not a fanboy. its just my opinion on why GSL boring. I see no reason to bash me for that. And hey I still like playing 3v3 in SC2, its most entertaining thing for me. Well that doesn't really explain why the OP is more interested in MLG than GSL though.
It's because they arn't the same thing, they're different kinds of events. He should be comparing MLG to DH or NASL finals etc.
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I agree im sure we would all be watching way more if terran was not dominating so much
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I stopped watching GSL when it became Terrancraft. Personally I don't like that MU. GSL is not to blame. Ofc nobody is since sc2 is so very well balanced. Also, I miss Idra.
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i think the tvt will turn off a lot of viewers, personally i stopped watching mostly cause of there being so much terrans and so little protoss. I dont think ill be watching next code s season with 5 tosses in it and 18-20 terrans(probably 20). dont see much chance of more tosses going past the group stage, this season huk and killer didn't go to up/down matches cause they got put in a group together and with a shitty zerg(violet).
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my only problem with gsl is the amount of terrans and big international tournaments are usually balanced better racially.
new blood would absolutely not make me more interested in gsl unless its well known foreigners vs koreans. in fact id prob be less interested if i saw people ive never heard of before unless they had the skill to beat good koreans and not just add a bunch of speed bump games to code s.
also the lack of tasteless/artosis hurts. i dont even hate the other casters i just want the best 2 to do everything even though i know its kinda unreasonable. i only watch games that involve protoss if its 2/3 of the other casters.
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Everyone hates TvT, we should make it PvP so everyone will watch and will be fully entertained and excited.
I feel like any mirror match in mass would bore anyone who doesn't truly like watching the game. If you are being turned off by a similar match up then it just sounds like you are looking for an excuse to not watch.
I watch regardless of match up and like to watch and learn from the best, if you are really that much of a race fanboy then go watch a stream. It has nothing to do with GSL vs MLG.
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I know why you think GSL lost entertainment value. You've seen HUNDREDS maybe close to a thousand games. Also they've become a little gimicky with the weird player intros. Season 1-3 was great. Now with artosis and tasteless in semi retirement. Good replacements seem hard to find.
ps. arrr fuk I hate losing =)
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GSL is the only tournament I watch regularly, it is the least luck based tournament due to the time given to preparation for your opponents, it is also higher level of play than all other tournaments.
I've skipped MLGs in the past(most of last year + Dallas), and Ive never tuned in to even all the broadcasted games that happen ever at an mlg, but i rarely miss a GSL code S game unless I'm certain it will be terrible beforehand.
On September 08 2011 13:48 mistamike wrote:
Players have way too much time to prepare for a match, it just takes away the inspiration and adaptation in the matches, since they know mostly what their opponent likes doing/can do. Huk vs MVP set1 was not an interesting match, just a guy who did his research properly and build order win. Not inspiring or fun.
I completely disagree, I found those games to be awesome and inspiring, and I love seeing new strategies or even adaptations of styles or all-ins that just work. Even though I was cheering for Huk those games were very impressive seeing MVP's preparation for the match. I guess I can't really sympathize with the view of a casual observer who's more there for the edge of the seat excitement and close games as opposed to the high level play; which needn't be one-sided, I'm sure there are games we both enjoy.
Overall I'd say I like both tournaments, and they both have a different feel to them. But GSL is definitely way better in my eyes. I even like the slower season format better.
So its kind of irritating reading some uninformed random OP that claims people don't like GSL or its not exciting etc and that it is flawed as a result, when I completely disagree.
This thread is just bad because I could make an "MLG might be losing entertainment value" and have the same amount if not more evidence relating to it. Make a blog next time, don't try and define the community as having your opinion. So you know some people who think GSL may be losing entertainment value, i know people who won't even tune into an MLG.
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Wow, people complaining now that we have too much SC2? "WE NEED MORE ESPORTS, GROW THE SCENE! but wait, too much GSL." Incredible. It's one thing to talk about over saturation at low levels, but at the highest level? And the poster who said that if GOM was less selfish it would do everyone a favor and have fewer events... I don't even...
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On September 08 2011 06:01 roymarthyup wrote:
Some ideas. Im hearing alot from people that they think GSL is getting boring and they are watching MLG more and more cuz they like its environment / atmosphere better. They cannot put their finger on why, but they just are more entertained by MLG.
Long, long post there, but right from the start you're wrong.
GSL is not boring for me, yes TvT can sometimes be a snoozefest, but that has nothing to do with GOM, they can't help the game's balance/what race the good players play.
MLG is great and entertaining, but that's simply because it's a full weekend of games with a full tournament stuffed into it. You aren't going to capture that type of atmosphere by changing the participants in GSL, simply because it's so much more spread out.
Long story short, the current format is great and I'm so excited to see the new players in Code S every season. It's getting more and more ridiculously competitive every season, and there are less and less "unworthy" players left in each new iteration.
Seriously, take a look at the names in Code S of January and Code S now. Why the hell would you want to go back to where we were before?
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The top 24 of 32 get seeded into the Ro32 of Code S. This is really quite ridiculous and causes stagnation.
In the MSL, the top 8 get seeded into the Ro32. There's plenty of room for new blood, while the top players are rightfully rewarded. Ideally the GSL would adopt this system, but I'd accept top 16 getting seeded into the Ro32 just fine.
But top 24/32 getting seeds is foolish. This is a game that is radically evolving, and a player could have been good 6+months ago but fallen way behind, but still holds a spot. An outdated and outclassed player can go 1-2 in the Ro32 and get seeded, and it is easier than it might seem because they could get their win over another outdated player who has hung on.
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Code S is pretty awesome 
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Also, besides Tastosis needing to cast more (less than 50% of the games is just not good), DoA/Moletrap needs to step up their casting imho - I like their passion for SC, but besides somewhat suspect game understanding, I think they really need to pick their spots when to get excited. They try to hype up every in game engagement, which isn't really the way to go about it.
I understand trying to sound excited and enthusiastic to bring life in the commentaries, but some times the games are just poorly played and needlessly trying to make it more exciting than it actually is kind of backfires more often than not. I mean, for instance you don't see basketball commentators going wild over every basket scored, its so that when there's something actually special (ie a sick slam dunk) you get the sensation of actual nerd chills.
Like yesterday, DoA was trying to hype up the battle between MC and Losira "will Losira hold?? Losira barely holds!!" when Losira completely roflstomps MC's army with a ton of units remaining. It just.. I don't know how to word it, it seems so wrong on so many accounts... =/
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i think the problem with the GSL is the players have a week to prepare for every match-up. they come to every match over prepared with extreme knowledge of every build and tendency of their opponent. MLG is the exact opposite except for pool-play. players don't know who they're going to face, and they have little time to prepare.
having a full week to prepare leads to boring chess matches. if you want to make the GSL more dynamic, take away the full week of preparation time. the players need to play multiple matches in a day. however; this is something the korean players don't seem to like, at least that's the impression i've gather from hearing a few of the complaints from the mlg's.
gsl is left either catering to the players and allowing them ample time to prepare for each match-up, or catering to the fans and having the players play multiple match-ups in a day.
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EPT
