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On September 02 2011 12:14 StutteR wrote:
Speaking as a Korean it was probably Vitamins and some herbal bullshit. Koreans do not condone drug use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginkgo_biloba 
You can pass it off as herbal, but it really heightens concentration. Personal experience. Helped me get through AP exams in high school.
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Thread is derailing into talking about drugs. Most probably Select is not using drugs to enhance his beastly SC2 playing. Get back on topic peoples!
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On September 02 2011 12:14 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:12 Kaitlin wrote:
I have an idea to allow for "team deal making" without compromising the integrity of the event, which wouldn't appear to run afoul of any event regulations of prize splitting.
I understand when players sign on to teams, they agree to certain stipulations, among them might be a % of any winnings going to the team. I believe a stipulation providing that any winnings earned from a match between any two teammates shall be 100% remitted to the team. Then, the team allocates the winnings between the two players as it sees fit, whether the %'s are pre-determined, laid out in the contract, or otherwise. I think this is a different scenario and doesn't really compromise the integrity of the event. This way, the discrepancy between 1st and 2nd place, or whatever money hangs in the balance is determined by the team, which the players have signed to compete for.
This might be something Fayth and Minigun might consider chiming in on, as it might be a solution that gets around any potential problems associated with what we've been debating. Of course, it only applies to teammates. well as it been said before isn't it just the same as splitting 55/45 or 60/40 instead of 50/50? which I do agree with
I don't believe it is, as it's not an agreement between the players. It's an agreement that has been in place since the player signed with their team, at least the most recent contract, and the deal isn't "hidden" per se. It could be something MLG is completely aware of. Players acting on their own to allocate between themselves makes a farce of the "1st place prize" of the tournament, whereas everybody knows the team gets a certain % of the winning from its players. That % is up to the players and the team, not the tournament. I see it as different. It's not something that is being hidden.
edit: Actually, I like this idea. It allows the tournament and sponsors to maintain the integrity of the tournament, tout a high 1st place prize, and it also provides for the situation where teammates face off, where they have helped each other so much that the tournament prize scale is a problem, so the team can figure a better distribution as it sees fit. I really don't think there are too many "ethical" problems with this.
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On September 02 2011 12:14 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:12 Kaitlin wrote:
I have an idea to allow for "team deal making" without compromising the integrity of the event, which wouldn't appear to run afoul of any event regulations of prize splitting.
I understand when players sign on to teams, they agree to certain stipulations, among them might be a % of any winnings going to the team. I believe a stipulation providing that any winnings earned from a match between any two teammates shall be 100% remitted to the team. Then, the team allocates the winnings between the two players as it sees fit, whether the %'s are pre-determined, laid out in the contract, or otherwise. I think this is a different scenario and doesn't really compromise the integrity of the event. This way, the discrepancy between 1st and 2nd place, or whatever money hangs in the balance is determined by the team, which the players have signed to compete for.
This might be something Fayth and Minigun might consider chiming in on, as it might be a solution that gets around any potential problems associated with what we've been debating. Of course, it only applies to teammates. well as it been said before isn't it just the same as splitting 55/45 or 60/40 instead of 50/50? which I do agree with
In your mind why should tournaments have different prizes for different placings?
Would you be OK with a flat tournament price pool or do you see any problems with it?
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On September 02 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:13 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:08 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:07 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:
[quote]
hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game
u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro
i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay. he didnt say he threw the games he said he went 1 base carrier His implication was that because he had a backroom deal to have money already in his pocket, it affected his play inside the game. Is that better? It's not really different. I saw select take some kind of pill to increase his focus at an MLG, it probably affected his play inside the game is that cheating? is that wrong? That depends if he has the pill for a legitimate medical reason or if he's popping someone else's prescription just to boost his gameplay. he told me it wasn't illegal or anything, you don't need a prescription, I didn't care honestly, it's like somebody who would drink coffee before a tournament cuz he's tired
If you take someones prescription for ADD or ADHD. And you open up a book for college studies lets say? You'll find that shit the most interesting book on the goddam earth.
Everything aside, medications to improve video game play? Mmm, Im not convinced it helps. Even if its a proven stimulant, I am not positive that a normal waking body will get benefits from it. That being said, no one should even attempt it.
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SC2 is now entering Turkish soccer league level thats not good
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On September 02 2011 12:18 StutteR wrote:
Thread is derailing into talking about drugs. Most probably Select is not using drugs to enhance his beastly SC2 playing. Get back on topic peoples!
Oh yeah definite in his case. Sorry I was just posting an example. Didn't mean to imply anything.
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On September 02 2011 12:19 StatorFlux wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:14 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:12 Kaitlin wrote:
I have an idea to allow for "team deal making" without compromising the integrity of the event, which wouldn't appear to run afoul of any event regulations of prize splitting.
I understand when players sign on to teams, they agree to certain stipulations, among them might be a % of any winnings going to the team. I believe a stipulation providing that any winnings earned from a match between any two teammates shall be 100% remitted to the team. Then, the team allocates the winnings between the two players as it sees fit, whether the %'s are pre-determined, laid out in the contract, or otherwise. I think this is a different scenario and doesn't really compromise the integrity of the event. This way, the discrepancy between 1st and 2nd place, or whatever money hangs in the balance is determined by the team, which the players have signed to compete for.
This might be something Fayth and Minigun might consider chiming in on, as it might be a solution that gets around any potential problems associated with what we've been debating. Of course, it only applies to teammates. well as it been said before isn't it just the same as splitting 55/45 or 60/40 instead of 50/50? which I do agree with In your mind why should tournaments have different prizes for different placings? Would you be OK with a flat tournament price pool or do you see any problems with it?
when I played WCG canada 2005 for broodwar, 1st and 2nd place got the exact same prize
I didn't care honestly, I was less stressed out in the finals but I didn't throw any games
and really obviously not it shudnt be the same exact thing, but the difference between 1st and 2nd place shudn't be that huge in every tourneys
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It's time like these I hate the SC2 community. Like shit lets take completely speculative things and blow them way out of proportion (referring to the Select thing). OMG GUYS I saw Idra taking a pill this one time, and he's been bulking up, and he got angry after a game, it must be steroids.
Stop. Fucking. Being. Dumb. For all you know it was Tylenol.
Besides MLG has no rules about drugs (legal ones obviously) does it?
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this happens in any game/sport where money you make is directly tied to tournament winnings (not salary for example)
It has happened in golf regularly, even amongst the top players in the past (Arnold Palmer asked Jack Nicklaus if he wanted to split before their playoff and Jack declined, but its fairly common)
If whether you make money or not is directly tied to the outcome of a game, splitting will be common.
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On September 02 2011 12:16 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:13 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 12:10 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:08 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:07 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:
[quote]
hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game
u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro
i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay. he didnt say he threw the games he said he went 1 base carrier His implication was that because he had a backroom deal to have money already in his pocket, it affected his play inside the game. Is that better? It's not really different. I saw select take some kind of pill to increase his focus at an MLG, it probably affected his play inside the game is that cheating? is that wrong? That depends if he has the pill for a legitimate medical reason or if he's popping someone else's prescription just to boost his gameplay. he told me it wasn't illegal or anything, you don't need a prescription, I didn't care honestly, it's like somebody who would drink coffee before a tournament cuz he's tired
Koreans take herbal pills before matches all the time. It's probably about the same as drinking a NOS at MLG.
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On September 02 2011 12:22 Shaetan wrote:
It's time like these I hate the SC2 community. Like shit lets take completely speculative things and blow them way out of proportion (referring to the Select thing). OMG GUYS I saw Idra taking a pill this one time, and he's been bulking up, and he got angry after a game, it must be steroids.
Stop. Fucking. Being. Dumb. For all you know it was Tylenol.
Besides MLG has no rules about drugs (legal ones obviously) does it?
I think the sport is just not as well developed. 20 years from now we'll probably have a lot of rules in place. Assuming drugs even manage to play a role, which I could go either way on.
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On September 02 2011 12:24 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:22 Shaetan wrote:
It's time like these I hate the SC2 community. Like shit lets take completely speculative things and blow them way out of proportion (referring to the Select thing). OMG GUYS I saw Idra taking a pill this one time, and he's been bulking up, and he got angry after a game, it must be steroids.
Stop. Fucking. Being. Dumb. For all you know it was Tylenol.
Besides MLG has no rules about drugs (legal ones obviously) does it? I think the sport is just not as well developed. 20 years from now we'll probably have a lot of rules in place. Assuming drugs even manage to play a role, which I could go either way on.
I'm guessing you've never tried the medications for ADD/ADHD.
They can DEFINITELY help for SC2 as well.
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On September 02 2011 12:22 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:19 StatorFlux wrote:On September 02 2011 12:14 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:12 Kaitlin wrote:
I have an idea to allow for "team deal making" without compromising the integrity of the event, which wouldn't appear to run afoul of any event regulations of prize splitting.
I understand when players sign on to teams, they agree to certain stipulations, among them might be a % of any winnings going to the team. I believe a stipulation providing that any winnings earned from a match between any two teammates shall be 100% remitted to the team. Then, the team allocates the winnings between the two players as it sees fit, whether the %'s are pre-determined, laid out in the contract, or otherwise. I think this is a different scenario and doesn't really compromise the integrity of the event. This way, the discrepancy between 1st and 2nd place, or whatever money hangs in the balance is determined by the team, which the players have signed to compete for.
This might be something Fayth and Minigun might consider chiming in on, as it might be a solution that gets around any potential problems associated with what we've been debating. Of course, it only applies to teammates. well as it been said before isn't it just the same as splitting 55/45 or 60/40 instead of 50/50? which I do agree with In your mind why should tournaments have different prizes for different placings? Would you be OK with a flat tournament price pool or do you see any problems with it? when I played WCG canada 2005 for broodwar, 1st and 2nd place got the exact same prize I didn't care honestly, I was less stressed out in the finals but I didn't throw any games
Thanks for your story, but I meant perhaps even more generally than that.
Say that top 32 got the same amount of money, would that be bad/good for the players and the competition.
It would significantly reduce (make that eliminate) that variance you were talking about and would "feed" many players.
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On September 02 2011 12:00 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:58 FawkingGoomba wrote:
Two people have no obligation to provide good games for others. This is entirely different from throwing games for sports bettors, since both competitors agree to it and nobody besides them benefits. Obviously they shouldn't do it publicly, but it's their right to come to an agreement. If you don't like it, get better and don't let them get to the finals. I don't care if the games are good. I care about the knowledge that both players have dedicated themselves 100% to trying to win that match. I don't care if they marine scv all in 4 games in a row to win a best of 7, if that wins them games they should do it. Although if that wins them games, Blizzard needs to do some patching.
They aren't obligated to try their best. You people are so damn delusional. Prize money splitting happens in literally every competition and there is NOTHING wrong with it. Them throwing games has zero impact on anyone else. They are NOT obligated to provide good games. If you have a problem with it, go beat them and stop whining that your viewing experience has been ruined.
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mass game on crystal meth. I've been playing for 3 days straight lol. Oh, it opens a whole new realm of possible hilariousness.
The random drug administered prior to play league. SC2-RDAPP. I'd pay to watch it.
I think we've already hit the crux in this conversation. Some say it cannot be helped so should be ignored. Others say its wrong but have no effective means of stopping it.
I guess the up/down matches are the way to go for the spectator who enjoys watching games free of money-fixing.
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On September 02 2011 12:25 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:24 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:22 Shaetan wrote:
It's time like these I hate the SC2 community. Like shit lets take completely speculative things and blow them way out of proportion (referring to the Select thing). OMG GUYS I saw Idra taking a pill this one time, and he's been bulking up, and he got angry after a game, it must be steroids.
Stop. Fucking. Being. Dumb. For all you know it was Tylenol.
Besides MLG has no rules about drugs (legal ones obviously) does it? I think the sport is just not as well developed. 20 years from now we'll probably have a lot of rules in place. Assuming drugs even manage to play a role, which I could go either way on. I'm guessing you've never tried the medications for ADD/ADHD. They can DEFINITELY help for SC2 as well.
I actually mentioned this earlier. I was part of that generation of kids where every single doctor was prescribing middle class children ADD because the medication helps with studies.
How does it help for SC2? Better awareness?
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On September 02 2011 12:25 StatorFlux wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:22 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:19 StatorFlux wrote:On September 02 2011 12:14 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:12 Kaitlin wrote:
I have an idea to allow for "team deal making" without compromising the integrity of the event, which wouldn't appear to run afoul of any event regulations of prize splitting.
I understand when players sign on to teams, they agree to certain stipulations, among them might be a % of any winnings going to the team. I believe a stipulation providing that any winnings earned from a match between any two teammates shall be 100% remitted to the team. Then, the team allocates the winnings between the two players as it sees fit, whether the %'s are pre-determined, laid out in the contract, or otherwise. I think this is a different scenario and doesn't really compromise the integrity of the event. This way, the discrepancy between 1st and 2nd place, or whatever money hangs in the balance is determined by the team, which the players have signed to compete for.
This might be something Fayth and Minigun might consider chiming in on, as it might be a solution that gets around any potential problems associated with what we've been debating. Of course, it only applies to teammates. well as it been said before isn't it just the same as splitting 55/45 or 60/40 instead of 50/50? which I do agree with In your mind why should tournaments have different prizes for different placings? Would you be OK with a flat tournament price pool or do you see any problems with it? when I played WCG canada 2005 for broodwar, 1st and 2nd place got the exact same prize I didn't care honestly, I was less stressed out in the finals but I didn't throw any games Thanks for your story, but I meant perhaps even more generally than that. Say that top 32 got the same amount of money, would that be bad/good for the players and the competition. It would significantly reduce that variance you were talking about and would "feed" many players.
these split almost never happen except among teammates, so your exemple doesn't make much sense at all
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On September 02 2011 12:25 StatorFlux wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:22 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:19 StatorFlux wrote:On September 02 2011 12:14 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:12 Kaitlin wrote:
I have an idea to allow for "team deal making" without compromising the integrity of the event, which wouldn't appear to run afoul of any event regulations of prize splitting.
I understand when players sign on to teams, they agree to certain stipulations, among them might be a % of any winnings going to the team. I believe a stipulation providing that any winnings earned from a match between any two teammates shall be 100% remitted to the team. Then, the team allocates the winnings between the two players as it sees fit, whether the %'s are pre-determined, laid out in the contract, or otherwise. I think this is a different scenario and doesn't really compromise the integrity of the event. This way, the discrepancy between 1st and 2nd place, or whatever money hangs in the balance is determined by the team, which the players have signed to compete for.
This might be something Fayth and Minigun might consider chiming in on, as it might be a solution that gets around any potential problems associated with what we've been debating. Of course, it only applies to teammates. well as it been said before isn't it just the same as splitting 55/45 or 60/40 instead of 50/50? which I do agree with In your mind why should tournaments have different prizes for different placings? Would you be OK with a flat tournament price pool or do you see any problems with it? when I played WCG canada 2005 for broodwar, 1st and 2nd place got the exact same prize I didn't care honestly, I was less stressed out in the finals but I didn't throw any games Thanks for your story, but I meant perhaps even more generally than that. Say that top 32 got the same amount of money, would that be bad/good for the players and the competition. It would significantly reduce (make that eliminate) that variance you were talking about and would "feed" many players.
If all 32 agree with the chop great. But I can never see that happening. This isn't poker where the best players don't have that great of an edge vs. the average players.
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If anybody thinks that setting up finals for anything in eSports and having teammates or friends split a tournament prize pool is helpful to eSports AT ALL they are dilusional.
This forum is bleeding with people who claim to have passion for playing Video Games professionally as a Career and that becoming more of a mainstream thing, it blows my mind how somebody claiming to be part of that movement can be agreeing to this.
If people want others to take this seriously it has to be done and played out in a serious way, Otherwise the rest of the world is just going to think we're a bunch of lazy idiots wanting to get paid to play video games.
What happened to the value of competition?
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EPT
