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On September 02 2011 11:50 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- thievery? TT1 knew his chances of winning against Fenix were like less than 20% and proposed this shit of a deal. Fenix would have to be stupid to split it with TT1.
less than 20%
where the hell do you get these random statistics
people make deal with their teammates all the time even if one is better than the other, kiwi always makes deal with slush, so do I, it's not about who's better, part of it is about friendship and the other part of it is about reducing variance, I'm sure you can understand a concept that simple
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On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:On September 02 2011 10:50 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:49 Airship wrote:On September 02 2011 10:47 billyX333 wrote:
I kind of understand the fear that it will hurt the stakes and hype of the tournament finals, but I disagree.
I've got a question for those who are against this, do you think cash prizes would help basketball or football sporting events? I don't think so. Part of the appeal of college sports is that we can be sure most of them are doing it for the passion for competition because they are amateurs who aren't getting paid salaries. I'd get significantly more emotional for the guy who is tearing up on the main stage because he finally gets a major championship title rather than a sick pay check.
Also, from what I understand, players like huk and idra make significantly more money from salaries than they do from tournament winnings. The value of a championship is not in the prize itself but the glory, fame, marketability, and negotiating leverage a player gets for future teams and sponsors. Even if the prize disparity between 1st and 2nd is significantly reduced behind closed doors, the incentive to win is still there. I'd much rather see emotions running high because of the championship title and not the big cash payout. When TT1 threw his game against Fenix your entire argument was proven invalid and it was proven that it can and has effected play sorry You didn't understand the argument then sorry I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention.
Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game?
There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession.
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On September 02 2011 12:02 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:00 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 12:00 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:59 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:57 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:55 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:50 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:47 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:45 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]
You're complaining about people making deals to split the 1st and 2nd prize. So why are you suggesting 1st and 2nd place get the same money? So that they play fair? 1st place gets more stuff. And no one can use it but the winner. Thereby ensuring that they can't split the true first place prize. How would they not play fair if they chopped? They already can't split the true first place prize, like sponsors, team deals, trophy, fame etc. When you are preparing for the finals of a tournament. It's like hell. You practice way harder and longer and it's brutal. And you try to fit in good rest somewhere in there. When you split the prize money, how much incentive is there to do that? I really don't understand your position. You're against people making deals but you're fine to FORCE them to make a deal. Im fine with any way to force players to give 100 percent to the game. It's only fair to the spectators. Instead we get pro's saying "Lawl I just carrier rushed because I had the money in my pocket already derp" .......... You're attacking your own arguments now. No? 1st and 2nd place are the same. "Lawl I just carrier rushed because I had the money in my pocket already derp" Please go back and read what I have been saying. Your missing an extremely large part of the discussion.
I know exactly what you're saying. You want to give away gift cards and other trinkets(which have monetary value btw) to the 1st place player and have the dollar amount for 1st and 2nd to be equal.
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On September 02 2011 12:03 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:02 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:00 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 12:00 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:59 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:57 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:55 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:50 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:47 Medrea wrote:
[quote]
So that they play fair? 1st place gets more stuff. And no one can use it but the winner. Thereby ensuring that they can't split the true first place prize.
How would they not play fair if they chopped? They already can't split the true first place prize, like sponsors, team deals, trophy, fame etc. When you are preparing for the finals of a tournament. It's like hell. You practice way harder and longer and it's brutal. And you try to fit in good rest somewhere in there. When you split the prize money, how much incentive is there to do that? I really don't understand your position. You're against people making deals but you're fine to FORCE them to make a deal. Im fine with any way to force players to give 100 percent to the game. It's only fair to the spectators. Instead we get pro's saying "Lawl I just carrier rushed because I had the money in my pocket already derp" .......... You're attacking your own arguments now. No? 1st and 2nd place are the same. "Lawl I just carrier rushed because I had the money in my pocket already derp" Please go back and read what I have been saying. Your missing an extremely large part of the discussion. I know exactly what you're saying. You want to give away gift cards and other trinkets(which have monetary value btw) to the 1st place player and have the dollar amount for 1st and 2nd to be equal.
It was just an idea. I don't care what it is as long as it's not transferrable. Transferrable money between competitors hurts the game overall...... if it's transferred anyway.
And to be fair. I could give a shit what happens as long as it guaruntees both players give 100 percent.
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On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:On September 02 2011 10:50 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:49 Airship wrote:
[quote]
When TT1 threw his game against Fenix your entire argument was proven invalid and it was proven that it can and has effected play sorry You didn't understand the argument then sorry I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession.
He did write it though. On the forums anwyay.
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What tournaments allow this? Have people done this in tournaments that don't allow it?
Do they understand what integrity is?
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On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:On September 02 2011 10:50 billyX333 wrote:
[quote]
You didn't understand the argument then sorry I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay.
he didnt say he threw the games he said he went 1 base carrier
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On September 02 2011 12:02 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 11:50 ilbh wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- thievery? TT1 knew his chances of winning against Fenix were like less than 20% and proposed this shit of a deal. Fenix would have to be stupid to split it with TT1. less than 20% where the hell do you get these random statistics people make deal with their teammates all the time even if one is better than the other, kiwi always makes deal with slush, so do I, it's not about who's better, part of it is about friendship and the other part of it is about reducing variance, I'm sure you can understand a concept that simple
I still think it kills the spirit of competition though (at least a part of it). It reduces stress and incentive, to put it simply (assuming 50/50 split). Yes a lot of the players will still try to play their best, but regardless, you're removing a big mental part of the finals by making at least the monetary portion irrelevent.
What the spectators want to see is the player with both physical (ability to play the game well) AND mental strengths, and both of these are a big part of competition.
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On September 02 2011 12:06 Reborn8u wrote:
What tournaments allow this? Have people done this in tournaments that don't allow it?
every tournaments allow it, cuz they can't not allow it
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On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:On September 02 2011 10:50 billyX333 wrote:
[quote]
You didn't understand the argument then sorry I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay.
i was overexagerrating about 1base carriering, watch the game =]
it wasnt a random illogical tech to carriers.. i went 2base charge into carriers
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On September 02 2011 12:07 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:
[quote]
I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay. he didnt say he threw the games he said he went 1 base carrier
Isn't it the same?
I mean who goes 1 base carriers in the final of a big tournament ?
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On September 02 2011 12:07 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:02 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:50 ilbh wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- thievery? TT1 knew his chances of winning against Fenix were like less than 20% and proposed this shit of a deal. Fenix would have to be stupid to split it with TT1. less than 20% where the hell do you get these random statistics people make deal with their teammates all the time even if one is better than the other, kiwi always makes deal with slush, so do I, it's not about who's better, part of it is about friendship and the other part of it is about reducing variance, I'm sure you can understand a concept that simple I still think it kills the spirit of competition though. It reduces stress and incentive, to put it simply (assuming 50/50 split). Yes a lot of the players will still try to play their best, but regardless, you're removing a big mental part of the finals by making at least the monetary portion irrelevent. What the spectators want to see is the player with both physical (ability to play the game well) AND mental strengths, and both of these are a big part of competition.
does it really kill it though?
cuz from what I'm reading from this thread, none of you seemed to have noticed, ever.
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On September 02 2011 12:07 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:
[quote]
I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay. he didnt say he threw the games he said he went 1 base carrier
His implication was that because he had a backroom deal to have money already in his pocket, it affected his play inside the game. Is that better? It's not really different.
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On September 02 2011 12:05 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:03 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 12:02 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:00 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 12:00 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:59 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:57 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:55 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:50 MyNameWuzBoB wrote:
[quote]
How would they not play fair if they chopped?
They already can't split the true first place prize, like sponsors, team deals, trophy, fame etc. When you are preparing for the finals of a tournament. It's like hell. You practice way harder and longer and it's brutal. And you try to fit in good rest somewhere in there. When you split the prize money, how much incentive is there to do that? I really don't understand your position. You're against people making deals but you're fine to FORCE them to make a deal. Im fine with any way to force players to give 100 percent to the game. It's only fair to the spectators. Instead we get pro's saying "Lawl I just carrier rushed because I had the money in my pocket already derp" .......... You're attacking your own arguments now. No? 1st and 2nd place are the same. "Lawl I just carrier rushed because I had the money in my pocket already derp" Please go back and read what I have been saying. Your missing an extremely large part of the discussion. I know exactly what you're saying. You want to give away gift cards and other trinkets(which have monetary value btw) to the 1st place player and have the dollar amount for 1st and 2nd to be equal. It was just an idea. I don't what it is as long as it's not transferrable. Transferrable money between competitors hurts the game overall...... if it's transferred anyway. And to be fair. I could give a shit what happens as long as it guaruntees both players give 100 percent.
You can't force players to give 100%. The best you can do is have enough incentives for 1st to make players not dick around. They are already plenty incentives for 1st. If someone doesn't want to win 1st for a chance for better contracts, fame etc. then they shouldn't be playing starcraft 2 competitively.
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It just merely points out how stupid the prize distributions are in most tournament.s lol
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On September 02 2011 12:07 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:06 Reborn8u wrote:
What tournaments allow this? Have people done this in tournaments that don't allow it? every tournaments allow it, cuz they can't not allow it
Im going to have a chat with Frank or Grant about this and see how they feel about there teammates splitting earnings across shared tournaments.
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On September 02 2011 12:07 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:02 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:50 ilbh wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- thievery? TT1 knew his chances of winning against Fenix were like less than 20% and proposed this shit of a deal. Fenix would have to be stupid to split it with TT1. less than 20% where the hell do you get these random statistics people make deal with their teammates all the time even if one is better than the other, kiwi always makes deal with slush, so do I, it's not about who's better, part of it is about friendship and the other part of it is about reducing variance, I'm sure you can understand a concept that simple I still think it kills the spirit of competition though (at least a part of it). It reduces stress and incentive, to put it simply (assuming 50/50 split). Yes a lot of the players will still try to play their best, but regardless, you're removing a big mental part of the finals by making at least the monetary portion irrelevent. What the spectators want to see is the player with both physical (ability to play the game well) AND mental strengths, and both of these are a big part of competition.
That's great and that's what we all want. But you cannot tell people what to do with their own money.
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On September 02 2011 12:08 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:07 Namu wrote:On September 02 2011 12:02 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:50 ilbh wrote:On September 02 2011 11:34 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 11:30 roymarthyup wrote:
im actually more of a fan of FENIX after hearing what he did
fenix did what needs to be done. if tournaments dont fix dealmaking by changing their rules or how the tournaments are run, then players themselves should use dealmaking to their advantage. fenix told TT1 he would do a deal, then he won the finals because of that advantage, and kept all the money for himself and laughed at TT1
hahahaha. alls fair in love and war boys. kudos to fenix and i support him more as a fan for his brilliant actions. approving of thievery and being proud of it what kind of world do we live in -.- thievery? TT1 knew his chances of winning against Fenix were like less than 20% and proposed this shit of a deal. Fenix would have to be stupid to split it with TT1. less than 20% where the hell do you get these random statistics people make deal with their teammates all the time even if one is better than the other, kiwi always makes deal with slush, so do I, it's not about who's better, part of it is about friendship and the other part of it is about reducing variance, I'm sure you can understand a concept that simple I still think it kills the spirit of competition though. It reduces stress and incentive, to put it simply (assuming 50/50 split). Yes a lot of the players will still try to play their best, but regardless, you're removing a big mental part of the finals by making at least the monetary portion irrelevent. What the spectators want to see is the player with both physical (ability to play the game well) AND mental strengths, and both of these are a big part of competition. does it really kill it though? cuz from what I'm reading from this thread, none of you seemed to have noticed, ever.
Does it matter if we notice it? (and it's impossible to account something to it, and to tell if there is a lack of mental stress relating to money because there are too many other factors in the game)
The fact is, by players doing this it's taking out something from the competition (it's deleting a criterion out basically) which obviously isn't appealing to the spectators
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On September 02 2011 12:08 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:51 Airship wrote:
[quote]
I understand that you think progamers will play their hearts out regardless of money and that TT1 proved you wrong. I am not missing anything. My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers. But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay. i was overexagerrating about 1base carriering, watch the game =] it wasnt a random illogical tech to carriers.. i went 2base charge into carriers
Would you have used carriers if there was $5k on the line and you and Fenix were not splitting?
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On September 02 2011 12:08 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 12:07 ReignFayth wrote:On September 02 2011 12:06 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 12:03 babylon wrote:On September 02 2011 11:54 Medrea wrote:On September 02 2011 11:53 Tektos wrote:On September 02 2011 11:35 TT1 wrote:On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote:On September 02 2011 10:57 DonKey_ wrote:On September 02 2011 10:55 billyX333 wrote:
[quote]
My primary point is that the incentive to win is there not because of the prizepool. Bringing up a case to the contrary doesn't invalidate any argument. I'm making an argument for what is the case for most progamers.
But he provides evidence for his post, when you present none for your own. Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying across the globe to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignore all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash hahaha i dont care about the competition, thats the only reason why i still play this game u think naniwa is a hardcore competitor? just because hes been in the spotlight much longer than me that doesnt mean he has more heart/drive than me, u dont know the half it bro i promise u theres no one in this game that wants to win to more than me, whenever i get knocked out of tournament i dont even stick around in the tournament area because i feel so ashamed of myself, youve never seen me once i get home after one of my failed mlg runs, i get so fucking depressed that i start thinking my future and whether or not im washed up and should quit playing, u dont know wat goes through my head so pls dont act like u do If losing makes you so depressed why did you 1base carrier? Exactly. That's the 1 million dollar question. I hope this gets the proper attention. Why does TheBest cheese all the time when he normally plays incredibly solid macro games in practice? Why did Moon 6-pool in the Dreamhack finals when he's shown that he can beat Huk in a macro game? There's really no way to definitively prove that TT1 actually "threw" the game short of asking him for a written confession. He did write it though. On the forums anwyay. he didnt say he threw the games he said he went 1 base carrier His implication was that because he had a backroom deal to have money already in his pocket, it affected his play inside the game. Is that better? It's not really different.
I saw select take some kind of pill to increase his focus at an MLG, it probably affected his play inside the game
is that cheating? is that wrong?
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EPT
