EPTJust my personal opinion. I can see why you would be against it, but respectfully disagree
EDIT: To clarify, i'm not for it or against it.
Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 22
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FoeHamr
United States489 Posts
Just my personal opinion. I can see why you would be against it, but respectfully disagree EDIT: To clarify, i'm not for it or against it. | ||
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Beakyboo
United States485 Posts
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PartyBiscuit
Canada4525 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:06 Medrea wrote: Maybe this is true. Maybe it was also true in BW then? Wow I never thought of it that way. Whenever I see terrible finals I am definitley going to suspect prize fixing or splitting now. Thats disgusting. Maybe we should have it so SC2 tournaments the top 2 places have the same winnings? .... Nobody wants to get swept in humiliation. GSL finals, especially with the Korean scene and what they dealt with in BW, is almost guaranteed none of that. | ||
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
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MyNameWuzBoB
57 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:06 Medrea wrote: Maybe this is true. Maybe it was also true in BW then? Wow I never thought of it that way. Whenever I see terrible finals I am definitley going to suspect prize fixing or splitting now. Thats disgusting. Maybe we should have it so SC2 tournaments the top 2 places have the same winnings? If they were throwing games then you'd think they'd make the finals more interesting rather than them all being 4-0. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
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Airship
United States465 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:02 billyX333 wrote: Evidence for my argument? My argument was that the incentive to win is there regardless of prize pool. Why the fuck would anybody compete in MLG. The only players who will on average net a profit from flying cross country to MLG would be the 4 koreans put in group play. Everyone else is playing for love for the game, competition, or for sponsors. Just because players like TT1 ignores all incentives except for cash prizes doesn't invalidate any argument. All it does is prove there are idiots out there who don't give a shit about the game or competition. TT1 proved that a long time ago. Thats why TT1 will probably never have fans and that's also why he should go find a new job anyway if all he wants is cash Tell me this, then. When players plan on splitting the money, why don't they announce it before the match rather than try to keep it quiet? I suggest it's because they realise it looks shady as fuck. Or, maybe they know the fans will be enraged. So they either know they are disappointing their fans when they do it, or they consider it a dishonest action. What chivalry. Ironically*, total transparency of their intentions before the match is played would be a sign of a clean conscience, and the silence will be taken for an admission of guilt. (*disclaimer: not actual irony) I'm sure this point can be argued. What are you going to come up with? | ||
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AdreN-
United States503 Posts
On September 02 2011 10:59 tsuxiit wrote: Isn't this the definition of match fixing in that it "fixes" the results of a tournament? Regardless of what you call it, it's completely anti-competition and the fact that TT1 even tries to justify it is disgusting. This isn't what the game is about, for fucks sake. It's the exact mentality that someone who used to maphack would have. This isn't match fixing because the winner wasn't pre-determined (results weren't "fixed"). However, psychologically it's got to make you relax more if you know you're getting 7.5K whether you win or lose. The best solution in these situations is a 55/45 split or something similar. The main issue is the prize disparity in SC2 tournaments, (GSL 46K-1st and 18K-2nd... IPL 30K-1st 12K-2nd). If I were a player I would DEFINITELY do some kind of split if I didn't think I had a big edge on my opponent, which you generally don't in SC2. Also, as many pros have already mentioned, you would still try your hardest in most situations even if it was a 50/50 split because of the prestige of winning the event. However, this is a unique situation in which there was big money on the table for an event nobody really cares about or has heard of. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
"deals" between teammates (or friends, hell even simply between 2 players) are not a problem as long as the players stick to doing their best. As many people have said it is common practice in some sports to give almost all of your prize money to the team and live from your salary. That isn't much different is it? The problematic area is, when people start to be douches about it and not give their best in the final. As long as they play their best after making the deal i have absolutly no problem with it. Hell if the tournament winner decides to give all the prizemoney to the 2nd place guy because he will get a sponsor bonus anyway i couldn't care less. What i care about is clean gameplay. Frankly i lost a lot of respect for TT1 in this debate, not because he was willing to cut a deal, but because he was an idiot during the games itself. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:11 MyNameWuzBoB wrote: If they were throwing games then you'd think they'd make the finals more interesting rather than them all being 4-0. I still think there should be no monetary incentive (but additional incentives) for 1st vs 2nd place. I think especially after reading what ToD was saying I think I feel like I was robbed of a minor part of my life. I thought pro's were playing for keeps! That was a good tournament  | ||
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MyNameWuzBoB
57 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:11 Kaitlin wrote: If players are willing to "make deals", and the winner of the match doesn't matter, as long as they "play their best", what's to stand in the way of earning some side cash by throwing (as a heavily favored player) a match so some gambler and win a bunch of bets and give the player a cut ? If the discrepancy of the prize pool is taken out of the equation, and it's only the "fame" or whatever from winning vs. losing, then why not throw the games for even more cash ? Can't see too many big gamblers interested in Starcraft, just for the reasons you stated alone. Too prone to rigging. | ||
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Engore
United States1916 Posts
A simple phrase that often goes through my head when competition discussion arises is "you play to win the game" Obviously people play for money as well, especially when it's the means for your living. But to split your winnings regardless of who wins seems very dishonorable. Essentially it doesn't matter who wins. You both share the silver medal. Neither is the victor. The spirit of e-sports and sports is competition. This sort of under-handed dealing only hurts the scene because it completely negates competition. You simply put down your shield and sword, letting any gladiator slice you with a plastic weapon. Prize money could be looked at like a medal. You win the tournament and you get that nice big fancy check for $50,000. When your completing the deal and splitting the money do you bring along a blow torch to cut the gold medal in half? | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
I couldn't care less if it was illegal or not, but if this is what SC2 finalists are doing then I am disappointed. Gamble $5000? Excuse me what that is what a tournament is for, you reward the better player, AKA the championship of the tournament, not the finalists. Sorry but this is a competitive environment and if you feel insecure about "gambling", please get out of the professional competition scene. Also cut the fallacies assuming the players will still try their best. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:15 Steel wrote: If it's two teammates in the finals and they want to split prizes, no problem. I think they still have to play the game and try to give a good show though. But that's against the grain of competition. I don't wanna be watching SC2 in the future and all the finals are just people worker rushing eachother every game because they already have a backroom deal where they get paid the same. The hammer must be brought down. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:16 epikAnglory wrote: Lmao if both players agree then the finalists must fucking suck so bad to the point where they are not confident of winning. I doubt this crap is for friendly matches and environment, just both players are insecure in winning. I couldn't care less if it was illegal or not, but if this is what SC2 finalists are doing then I am disappointed. Gamble $5000? Excuse me what that is what a tournament is for, you reward the better player, AKA the championship of the tournament, not the finalists. Sorry but this is a competitive environment and if you feel insecure about "gambling", please get out of the professional competition scene. Gambling is different. When it affects the play of the players. We have a problem. When players get involved, it breaks the game entirely. Look at baseball. Baseball nearly died to match fixing because gamblers got a hold of that sport. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
On September 02 2011 11:19 Medrea wrote: Gambling is different. When it affects the play of the players. We have a problem. When players get involved, it breaks the game entirely. Look at baseball. Baseball nearly died to match fixing because gamblers got a hold of that sport. I was quoting the OP of gambling, if you noticed the quotation marks it shows I don't agree with that term as well. | ||
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