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APM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Snuggles
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1865 Posts
September 26 2011 12:10 GMT
#761
You know what, now that I think about it it may be just blizzard's way of catering to lower level players again.
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
September 26 2011 12:46 GMT
#762
On September 26 2011 08:35 IntotheNorth wrote:
Funny thing is im seeing pros having below 100 apm after the patch, they have basically almost the same apm as bronzie now, gj blizzard ^^ make us noobs feeling proud


Which ones? I pulled a random match from the first page of SC2rep and its listing an average APM of 175 for LiquidRet, with higher peaks. Meanwhile in my Silver league games I rarely see anyone above 30-60 average. If someone could actually pull a replay of a sub-100 APM pro playing a standard game that'd be great. Until then I have to assume the "omg they're catering to the noooooobs" thing is nonsense.
ExquisiteRed
Profile Joined February 2011
396 Posts
September 26 2011 12:48 GMT
#763
On September 26 2011 21:46 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 08:35 IntotheNorth wrote:
Funny thing is im seeing pros having below 100 apm after the patch, they have basically almost the same apm as bronzie now, gj blizzard ^^ make us noobs feeling proud


Which ones? I pulled a random match from the first page of SC2rep and its listing an average APM of 175 for LiquidRet, with higher peaks. Meanwhile in my Silver league games I rarely see anyone above 30-60 average. If someone could actually pull a replay of a sub-100 APM pro playing a standard game that'd be great. Until then I have to assume the "omg they're catering to the noooooobs" thing is nonsense.



Those Ret replays are from before the patch. I actually haven't seen any pro replays from after patch 1.4 though, kinda curious what their apm is now.
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
September 26 2011 12:54 GMT
#764
ill admit i havent read any thing besides the first page and hte last page in this thread. has it reached 39 pages because people are trying to figure out calculations and such or are people actually riled up enough about this change to reach this amount of discussion?

I dont see how an APM counter change could piss people off so im a bit confused
Joey Wheeler
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (North)276 Posts
September 26 2011 12:57 GMT
#765
On September 26 2011 17:21 Jehct wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 08:59 Joey Wheeler wrote:
On September 26 2011 08:54 Wasteweiser wrote:
So spamming move commands is incouraged but not spaming hotkeys which is vital for macro? /facepalm


This, and the fact you can't compare your APM to your past APM from patches before. I have no clue whether or not my multitasking or mechanics have improved.

APM is not a measure of multitasking or mechanics in any way, shape or form. You're doing it wrong. Macro under pressure, on the other hand, is a solid test of multitasking. Are you keeping up with spending lategame? Or while harassing/attacking? Those are your measures.

Macroing under pressure is exactly where you get APM from. How the hell is a measurement that shows how many actions you are doing in game not an accurate measure?
jojoleb
Profile Joined April 2010
Lebanon180 Posts
September 26 2011 15:06 GMT
#766
for me honestly my APM has stayed same or in last few games were a bit higher ! at around 150 to 170 APM !
which surprised me as i'm just a platinum ZERG player !


jojo.554
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
September 26 2011 15:16 GMT
#767
hahahah this is going to make me use the ingame counter a lot less!
it's similar to taking your sc2gears value and dividing by 3, and there are many times when a pro hits flat out 0.

stick to sc2gears i guess if you want a non-filtered measurement
press 'm' in replays for the sake of curiosity now : D
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
September 26 2011 15:32 GMT
#768
so u dont get apm by spamming 2323232 but u get apm by spamming move command on the ground with ur scouting worker even if u click him to move to the same location?

to me the only logical way to count apm is by counting everything or excluding all sorts of spam, that includes move commands or attack commands that doesnt make a difference.
for example clicking to move ur scouting overlord 50 times behind ur opponents natural in the same spot before he gets there should also count as spamming. but its too hard to make a realistic and 100% fair EAPM

so by that being said i think the apm bar should include all sorts of spamming. even if u just sit and do 232323 because thats not any worse than ordering your unit to move to same location/direction multiple times within 0.1 seconds
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-26 15:43:34
September 26 2011 15:42 GMT
#769
On September 27 2011 00:32 MorroW wrote:
so u dont get apm by spamming 2323232 but u get apm by spamming move command on the ground with ur scouting worker even if u click him to move to the same location?

to me the only logical way to count apm is by counting everything or excluding all sorts of spam, that includes move commands or attack commands that doesnt make a difference.
for example clicking to move ur scouting overlord 50 times behind ur opponents natural in the same spot before he gets there should also count as spamming. but its too hard to make a realistic and 100% fair EAPM

so by that being said i think the apm bar should include all sorts of spamming. even if u just sit and do 232323 because thats not any worse than ordering your unit to move to same location/direction multiple times within 0.1 seconds


Exactly.

And Blizzard's system didn't include camera hotkeys and minimap clicks either pre-patch, and I think they should have.
And I could be wrong but double tapping to center the group on the screen is not considered 2 actions but just 1 pre-patch (0 in this one?). Basically all camera movement methods were not considered APM, although they're most likely part of the most meaningful "Actions", and are the best numerical measure we have of "good multitasking".
Monkeyballs25
Profile Joined October 2010
531 Posts
September 26 2011 17:02 GMT
#770
On September 26 2011 21:48 ExquisiteRed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2011 21:46 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
On September 26 2011 08:35 IntotheNorth wrote:
Funny thing is im seeing pros having below 100 apm after the patch, they have basically almost the same apm as bronzie now, gj blizzard ^^ make us noobs feeling proud


Which ones? I pulled a random match from the first page of SC2rep and its listing an average APM of 175 for LiquidRet, with higher peaks. Meanwhile in my Silver league games I rarely see anyone above 30-60 average. If someone could actually pull a replay of a sub-100 APM pro playing a standard game that'd be great. Until then I have to assume the "omg they're catering to the noooooobs" thing is nonsense.



Those Ret replays are from before the patch. I actually haven't seen any pro replays from after patch 1.4 though, kinda curious what their apm is now.


Oh right, sorry. I'm also curious to see the numbers, just not sure where to start looking.
darthcaesar
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States475 Posts
September 26 2011 17:29 GMT
#771
I'm really curious what ViBE and merZ's APM is now.

Personally I dropped from 140-150 to around 110.
He is wisest who knows he does not know. | (┛OДO)┛彡┻━┻
merz
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Sweden2760 Posts
September 26 2011 18:33 GMT
#772
On September 27 2011 02:29 darthcaesar wrote:
I'm really curious what ViBE and merZ's APM is now.

Personally I dropped from 140-150 to around 110.



For me it constantly keeps moving up the longer the game goes (which makes sense obviously). 10 minute game I'll barely hit 100, 15 minute game im around 120, 30 min game im at 150+ etc..
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
September 26 2011 18:38 GMT
#773
On September 27 2011 00:06 jojoleb wrote:
for me honestly my APM has stayed same or in last few games were a bit higher ! at around 150 to 170 APM !
which surprised me as i'm just a platinum ZERG player !


jojo.554


I find that hard to believe....

Are you looking at sc2gears or the actual sc2 replay? I get about 240 apm on sc2gears and about 100 in game now.

Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
September 26 2011 18:40 GMT
#774
On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:
Bad IMO. I will still do the 'tapping' stuff either way, because it is actually necessary and helpful, but it just won't get counted.

In BW clicking on the minimap counted as an action iirc. Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard. Also fix the 'minute' part of APM, make it count for 60 REAL seconds, because that is what a 'minute' IS.

The only thing this will be helpful for is for people like merz who abuse the system, and for Vibe as well, since he does jack all with his 500 APM lol and everyone knows it. The thing is is that 'everyone' already knows to ignore the obvious spammers because they are playing shitty despite having 300+ APM.



On August 26 2011 22:30 Geovu wrote:Blizzard should just stop screwing with crap that wasn't even invented by blizzard.


I agree with your first two paragraphs, especially the rerequoted part.

merz has always stated that it's more comfortable for him to keep his fingers moving at that pace. He's not "abusing the system". He is well aware that his game decision making and overarching strategies are his limiting reagents. I'm not really into bashing players for what you think they're thinking rather than what they are actually thinking.
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
MenSol[ZerO]
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1134 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-26 20:26:30
September 26 2011 20:26 GMT
#775
i feel like this new apm system rewards players who use mouse clciks a lot more then hotkey commands
Prime/MarineKing!!! www.twitter.com/DayTripperSC
megaBICEPS
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada79 Posts
September 26 2011 20:28 GMT
#776
On September 27 2011 05:26 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
i feel like this new apm system rewards players who use mouse clciks a lot more then hotkey commands


Only spamming move commands, clicking buildings or units doesn't count towards apm either I don't think.
Gonna burn some muscle!
Darneck
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden1394 Posts
September 26 2011 20:37 GMT
#777
On September 27 2011 05:28 megaBICEPS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 05:26 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:
i feel like this new apm system rewards players who use mouse clciks a lot more then hotkey commands


Only spamming move commands, clicking buildings or units doesn't count towards apm either I don't think.

It rewards players with a spasmic middle finger.. jokes aside, this change makes close to no sense at all already and neither does it matter.
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
September 26 2011 20:46 GMT
#778
Did they ever explain the APM change in the situation notes? I really think they need to at least say something. Some people don't care, others are upset, and no one really knows why it had to be changed.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
September 27 2011 00:24 GMT
#779
havent really seen much of a drop.

most games im 115-130 since 1.4, where as in pre 1.4 i was 130-160
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
September 27 2011 01:08 GMT
#780
On September 27 2011 00:42 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 27 2011 00:32 MorroW wrote:
so u dont get apm by spamming 2323232 but u get apm by spamming move command on the ground with ur scouting worker even if u click him to move to the same location?

to me the only logical way to count apm is by counting everything or excluding all sorts of spam, that includes move commands or attack commands that doesnt make a difference.
for example clicking to move ur scouting overlord 50 times behind ur opponents natural in the same spot before he gets there should also count as spamming. but its too hard to make a realistic and 100% fair EAPM

so by that being said i think the apm bar should include all sorts of spamming. even if u just sit and do 232323 because thats not any worse than ordering your unit to move to same location/direction multiple times within 0.1 seconds


Exactly.

And Blizzard's system didn't include camera hotkeys and minimap clicks either pre-patch, and I think they should have.
And I could be wrong but double tapping to center the group on the screen is not considered 2 actions but just 1 pre-patch (0 in this one?). Basically all camera movement methods were not considered APM, although they're most likely part of the most meaningful "Actions", and are the best numerical measure we have of "good multitasking".


Yeah, it's 1 action pre-patch. 1 action to select the group, and then the second tap that sends you camera over does not count for anything. In the current patch, if the selection is not preceded by other selections, then it still counts as an action. Otherwise, it does not.
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