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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST |
On August 23 2011 21:50 truewt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:48 Dalavita wrote:On August 23 2011 21:46 DertoQq wrote:
Even when they know its coming, protoss players will most likely lose, that's the thing. Look at the last game of Puma vs MC, MC had like 10min to prepare to the all-in, he knew since the start it was coming, but couldn't do anything.
This would never happen with a 2rax scv all-in.
With more practice, they'll learn to adapt to it, especially if they know it's coming. But it's not that the P pros are not practicing enough, is that the case? But look at the many GSL/IEM games, even if you scout/guess it happens, the P players lose majority of the games.
It is actually.
They're not executing the defense well yet, and once they learn, it'll be surprisingly simple to defend.
It'll be learning a new technique, like marine splitting against banes, and all of a sudden this push is surprisingly easy to hold.
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Blizz invented a time machine with this, I feel like I'm watching 23/08/2010 GSL matches.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
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On August 23 2011 21:49 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:44 link0 wrote:
How is this all-in much different from one of the many Protoss 1 base all-ins such as the 3G VR? If you scout 3g VR, you put down 2 bunkers, and its easy mode from there. If you scout 111, you die regardless.
Voidrays, just like siege tanks, hit that switch where after a certain amount of them, no number of defenses will hold them.
The sollution to 1/1/1 all-in is obviously to counter all-in with a proxy VR. We're officially back to the beta
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I think at this point a lot of you are twisting anything to try to convince yourselves that 1/1/1 is the only thing that matters and its imbalanced. Games with no 1/1/1 involved are being used as examples and people are talking about how wrong people like Artosis and Tyler are because they aren't trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole.
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On August 23 2011 21:53 Bensio wrote:
Why is 3gate VR considered to be imbalanced in Korea?
It isn't. It just beats marauder based builds.
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On August 23 2011 21:53 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:50 truewt wrote:On August 23 2011 21:48 Dalavita wrote:On August 23 2011 21:46 DertoQq wrote:
Even when they know its coming, protoss players will most likely lose, that's the thing. Look at the last game of Puma vs MC, MC had like 10min to prepare to the all-in, he knew since the start it was coming, but couldn't do anything.
This would never happen with a 2rax scv all-in.
With more practice, they'll learn to adapt to it, especially if they know it's coming. But it's not that the P pros are not practicing enough, is that the case? But look at the many GSL/IEM games, even if you scout/guess it happens, the P players lose majority of the games. It is actually. They're not executing the defense well yet, and once they learn, it'll be surprisingly simple to defend. It'll be learning a new technique, like marine splitting against banes, and all of a sudden this push is surprisingly easy to hold.
Maybe true, but I think the offense isn't executed perfectly neither ^^
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3 gate void ray is highly considered imbalanced in korea. The charged voids beat marines no matter what. Because I have type this it is true, just like this thread. I'm not crying, I'm making a point about imbalance in a balanced game.
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On August 23 2011 21:54 w_Ender_w wrote:
I think at this point a lot of you are twisting anything to try to convince yourselves that 1/1/1 is the only thing that matters and its imbalanced. Games with no 1/1/1 involved are being used as examples and people are talking about how wrong people like Artosis and Tyler are because they aren't trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole.
You think it's coincidence that a top player like Genius is using bullshit proxy stargate allins blindly? Why would he do that?
He tried to play a standard game first time. He got allined by yet another 1/1/1 variant and died. So he cheesed twice.
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On August 23 2011 21:56 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:54 w_Ender_w wrote:
I think at this point a lot of you are twisting anything to try to convince yourselves that 1/1/1 is the only thing that matters and its imbalanced. Games with no 1/1/1 involved are being used as examples and people are talking about how wrong people like Artosis and Tyler are because they aren't trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole. You think it's coincidence that a top player like Genius is using bullshit proxy stargate allins blindly? Why would he do that?
I don't know, because it wins games?
Do we infer that because Terran's 1/1/1 all-in it must mean that lategame P is imbalanced and unstoppable so Terran's want to all-in faster than it?
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Ok, the matchup has regressed to the point where it isn't even fun to watch. Protoss players are now all inning every game because they are sick of dying to 1-1-1. This forces the Terran to do a difficult defence of a void ray all in which is harder to hold than it is to lose a 1-1-1.
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On August 23 2011 21:55 JediGamer wrote:
3 gate void ray is highly considered imbalanced in korea. The charged voids beat marines no matter what. Because I have type this it is true, just like this thread. I'm not crying, I'm making a point about imbalance in a balanced game.
I c wut u did thar :D RUB IT IN xD
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On August 23 2011 21:55 DertoQq wrote:
Maybe true, but I think the offense isn't executed perfectly neither ^^
A new tactic is more successful even when executed poorly, compared to someone being forced to adapt to it without full knowledge of how to stop it.
My guess it (assuming Blizzard doesn't nerf it) that Protosses will figure out how to stop it, the 1/1/1 will reach a peak in execution, protosses stopping it will reach a peak in execution, and the 1/1/1 will fall to the wayside again, but still be used once in a while as a useful build.
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+ Show Spoiler [gsl spoilers] +On August 23 2011 21:54 Hassybaby wrote:
Well there you go guys. Genius showed us how to beat the 1/1/1
Do a quicker all-in Except neither game was 1-1-1 you -censored- It was a 2gate maka into 'O sh!t' banshee. 3rd game was marauder expand I think I heard.
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On August 23 2011 21:57 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:55 DertoQq wrote:
Maybe true, but I think the offense isn't executed perfectly neither ^^ A new tactic is more successful even when executed poorly, compared to someone being forced to adapt to it without full knowledge of how to stop it. My guess it (assuming Blizzard doesn't nerf it) that Protosses will figure out how to stop it, the 1/1/1 will reach a peak in execution, protosses stopping it will reach a peak in execution, and the 1/1/1 will fall to the wayside again, but still be used once in a while as a useful build.
That's what I think will happen.
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On August 23 2011 21:56 w_Ender_w wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:56 Yaotzin wrote:On August 23 2011 21:54 w_Ender_w wrote:
I think at this point a lot of you are twisting anything to try to convince yourselves that 1/1/1 is the only thing that matters and its imbalanced. Games with no 1/1/1 involved are being used as examples and people are talking about how wrong people like Artosis and Tyler are because they aren't trying to fit a square peg into a circular hole. You think it's coincidence that a top player like Genius is using bullshit proxy stargate allins blindly? Why would he do that? I don't know, because it wins games? Do we infer that because Terran's 1/1/1 all-in it must mean that lategame P is imbalanced and unstoppable so Terran's want to all-in faster than it?
Yeah man, I've watched so many freaking PvT since beta. Proxy VR's allins amost always wins xd.
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On August 23 2011 21:54 Hassybaby wrote:
Well there you go guys. Genius showed us how to beat the 1/1/1
Do a quicker all-in
Seems true and it makes me really sad...
PvT officially a destroyed MU due to "who can all-in faster?" - really Blizzard?
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+ Show Spoiler [gsl spoilers] +On August 23 2011 21:52 Barkziee wrote:
1-1-1 is figured out btw. Proxy stargate and hope they dont find it or make too many marines for a quick GG Coin flip build for the win! Apparently  , that wasn't the 1/1/1 thou, he made marauders for some reason. The 1/1/1 would be building purely marines no marauders so, the VR would have been shut down if he didn't step out of the line. Congratz Genius 
User was warned for this post
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On August 23 2011 21:58 Teiwaz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:54 Hassybaby wrote:
Well there you go guys. Genius showed us how to beat the 1/1/1
Do a quicker all-in Seems true and it makes me really sad... PvT officially a destroyed MU due to "who can all-in faster?" - really Blizzard?
Metagame, do you know the word? Chill and wait. It'll get figured out.
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On August 23 2011 21:56 Micket wrote:
Ok, the matchup has regressed to the point where it isn't even fun to watch. Protoss players are now all inning every game because they are sick of dying to 1-1-1. This forces the Terran to do a difficult defence of a void ray all in which is harder to hold than it is to lose a 1-1-1.
I heard marauders work well against voidrays. Brb, gonna go test it out in Unit Tester. I'll report back with results / replays.
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EPT
