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Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 90

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 88 89 90 91 92 143 Next
Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
August 23 2011 12:18 GMT
#1781
On August 23 2011 21:15 DertoQq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:13 Bakkendepao wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:03 Ravomat wrote:
Nexus first is still very vulnerable to all ins. It's just different ones.

I think the key to holding this off is phoenix/immortal/zealot into colossi but I need to play against it a lot more to be certain.

In my experience Ive been able to hold almost every terran allin with nexus first, ofcourse, these are to be done on the bigger maps.


Didn't Killer lost like 3 time in a row trying to nexus first ?


Well ironically the one game he won was against a 1-1-1 all-in.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
ClueLessx3
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia53 Posts
August 23 2011 12:20 GMT
#1782
On August 23 2011 21:16 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:15 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:13 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:09 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:34 Joseph123 wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:32 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:28 Joseph123 wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:21 w_Ender_w wrote:
I think if people played as much as they theorycrafted in this thread someone might come up with a solution to 1/1/1

u mean guys like Alicia who only write on twitter about 1-1-1 and not play at all right?

Sorry, I must have missed Alicia's posts about what Terran units need to be nerfed to solve 1 build

so now Alicia is a balance designer?

I think there must be some misunderstanding lost in translation here.

All I'm saying is that this balance discussion and theorycrafting is kind of worthless. Nothing is going to do anything but getting into games and working it out. That's what Alicia is doing, not posting on TL about it.

No he's posting on twitter because his practice sessions have lead him to same conclusions as everyone elses: you can't stop it.

Then everyone should just quit playing Protoss. Or keep trying. Up to you? :D

People look pretty close to race switching, as Zergs were before the patches saved them. Many Protoss look on tilt from the start in PvT, including MC.

Agreed been off racing as Zerg for a few weeks cause i just don't wanna touch protoss at this state losing to it makes me rage QQ
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
August 23 2011 12:21 GMT
#1783
On August 23 2011 21:00 ClueLessx3 wrote:
What about hallucinations?
- Sentries hallucinating a few more zealots to make your main army more robust.
- FF All the marines towards you and let the splash dmg from the Siege tank work in our favour
- Sentries can't be PDDed so destroy it by focusing it down. If possible snipe the raven
* Possible contain to delay the push and thus getting more units out to deal with it

So that's the pros. Cons:
- Uses too much gas, meaning slow tech and therefore slower robo for the observer.
- Sentries are really fragile and can be focused down easily (:0 siege tank target fire them, painful to watch QQ
- Need a lot of them for GS, FF and Hallucination thus hurting your main army

What do you think? :x


Um....The 1-1-1 PDD push has a Raven O_o.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
DertoQq
Profile Joined October 2010
France906 Posts
August 23 2011 12:21 GMT
#1784
On August 23 2011 21:18 blooblooblahblah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:15 DertoQq wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:13 Bakkendepao wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:03 Ravomat wrote:
Nexus first is still very vulnerable to all ins. It's just different ones.

I think the key to holding this off is phoenix/immortal/zealot into colossi but I need to play against it a lot more to be certain.

In my experience Ive been able to hold almost every terran allin with nexus first, ofcourse, these are to be done on the bigger maps.


Didn't Killer lost like 3 time in a row trying to nexus first ?


Well ironically the one game he won was against a 1-1-1 all-in.


Why would you say "ironically" ? The build is made to beat 1-1-1 all-in, it would have been ironical if he had lost this one also ^^
"i've made some empty promises in my life, but hands down that was the most generous" - Michael Scott
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
August 23 2011 12:23 GMT
#1785
Even if I wanted to race switch, I don't like playing Terran at all. I like Zerg, but ZvZ makes me want to kill myself, can't stand that matchup for some reason. Besides, it's not like I keep losing to this, I just 1 base all-in and the average Masters player doesn't have the execution needed to defend with a 1/1/1 opening. 3 Gate VR and the 4 Gate Warp Prism work quite well.
"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
ClueLessx3
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia53 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 12:27:44
August 23 2011 12:24 GMT
#1786
On August 23 2011 21:21 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:00 ClueLessx3 wrote:
What about hallucinations?
- Sentries hallucinating a few more zealots to make your main army more robust.
- FF All the marines towards you and let the splash dmg from the Siege tank work in our favour
- Sentries can't be PDDed so destroy it by focusing it down. If possible snipe the raven
* Possible contain to delay the push and thus getting more units out to deal with it

So that's the pros. Cons:
- Uses too much gas, meaning slow tech and therefore slower robo for the observer.
- Sentries are really fragile and can be focused down easily (:0 siege tank target fire them, painful to watch QQ
- Need a lot of them for GS, FF and Hallucination thus hurting your main army

What do you think? :x


Um....The 1-1-1 PDD push has a Raven O_o.


I was thinking of sniping it...somehow =3= dw
i'm running out of ideas

Lets watch the gsl to see if he holds the 111 :D CMON YOU CAN DO IT GENIUS!
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 23 2011 12:25 GMT
#1787
On August 23 2011 21:23 Toadvine wrote:
Even if I wanted to race switch, I don't like playing Terran at all. I like Zerg, but ZvZ makes me want to kill myself, can't stand that matchup for some reason. Besides, it's not like I keep losing to this, I just 1 base all-in and the average Masters player doesn't have the execution needed to defend with a 1/1/1 opening. 3 Gate VR and the 4 Gate Warp Prism work quite well.

Ya it's not really an issue at our scrub level because the Terrans don't know how to defend a whole bunch of allins in response. But when they do....
shammythefox
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom286 Posts
August 23 2011 12:26 GMT
#1788
I was under the impression every region held this opinion...
MLG_Wiggin
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States767 Posts
August 23 2011 12:27 GMT
#1789
On August 23 2011 21:16 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:15 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:13 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:09 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:34 Joseph123 wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:32 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:28 Joseph123 wrote:
On August 23 2011 20:21 w_Ender_w wrote:
I think if people played as much as they theorycrafted in this thread someone might come up with a solution to 1/1/1

u mean guys like Alicia who only write on twitter about 1-1-1 and not play at all right?

Sorry, I must have missed Alicia's posts about what Terran units need to be nerfed to solve 1 build

so now Alicia is a balance designer?

I think there must be some misunderstanding lost in translation here.

All I'm saying is that this balance discussion and theorycrafting is kind of worthless. Nothing is going to do anything but getting into games and working it out. That's what Alicia is doing, not posting on TL about it.

No he's posting on twitter because his practice sessions have lead him to same conclusions as everyone elses: you can't stop it.

Then everyone should just quit playing Protoss. Or keep trying. Up to you? :D

People look pretty close to race switching, as Zergs were before the patches saved them. Many Protoss look on tilt from the start in PvT, including MC.

I don't think you're giving professional protoss and zerg players enough credit. Patches didn't give Nestea and MC their GSL wins. Sure, in the past some things have changed (notably 5 rax reaper was nerfed, but honestly I bet if they left it in Zergs would be stopping it today though the metagame would look completely different). I mean just look at the whole 2 rax/pulled SCV all-in trend that looked unstoppable for almost an entire GSL. Nothing really changed, but now most Terran's don't do that because it got 'solved' to an extent.

Alicia made a post on twitter. I bet he's still practicing every day, not waiting for a patch to solve his problems or switching his race.
@DBWiggin, SC2 ref
IVN
Profile Joined October 2010
534 Posts
August 23 2011 12:29 GMT
#1790
On August 23 2011 21:09 DertoQq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:07 IVN wrote:

So why would MVP say 111 is imbalanced, if it werent really the case? What could he possibly gain from this?


More popularity ? : D

:D

LOLz, made my day.


But seriously, isnt he already the most popular terran player in the world?
rpgalon
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil1069 Posts
August 23 2011 12:29 GMT
#1791
phoenix 25 energy graviton beam against light units. so they can try to kill marines

no, it would not make hydras useless, you can only fight hydras with phoenix if you have 1 phoenix for each hydra, so energy almost never is a problem. and the counter to mas phoenix is not hydra, the counter is spore crawlers or corruptors.
badog
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 23 2011 12:29 GMT
#1792
On August 23 2011 21:27 w_Ender_w wrote:
Alicia made a post on twitter. I bet he's still practicing every day, not waiting for a patch to solve his problems or switching his race.

Probably. But probably not much PvT, and he'll probably just allin a bunch. Look at the ludicrous G3 of MC v Puma to see how insane this is making Protoss players. Phoenix into blink into DT into hidden base into base trade to try and beat it. Nobody has a clue what to do and they've basically given up trying.
DertoQq
Profile Joined October 2010
France906 Posts
August 23 2011 12:31 GMT
#1793
On August 23 2011 21:27 w_Ender_w wrote:
I mean just look at the whole 2 rax/pulled SCV all-in trend that looked unstoppable for almost an entire GSL. Nothing really changed, but now most Terran's don't do that because it got 'solved' to an extent.



kinda different, it was never "unstoppable", it was just really hard to scout and happened unexpectedly. But if you know its coming, you don't lose. Like any all-in.
"i've made some empty promises in my life, but hands down that was the most generous" - Michael Scott
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
August 23 2011 12:34 GMT
#1794
The Terran race is so 'versatile' because their tech is cheap. 3/1/1 costs only 900/300 in infrastructure, and unlocks access to all but three units, as well as access to the research for those units. It would appear to fulfill similar roles to Twilight Council + Stargate + Robo + Bay, which is much more expensive. (For ~900/300, a Protoss can have two Gateways + Core + Warp Tech + two tech structures. Not as sexy.)

If Protoss is to compete one-base to one-base with Terran, perhaps Protoss need to open with faster gas.
My strategy is to fork people.
DertoQq
Profile Joined October 2010
France906 Posts
August 23 2011 12:35 GMT
#1795
On August 23 2011 21:29 IVN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:09 DertoQq wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:07 IVN wrote:

So why would MVP say 111 is imbalanced, if it werent really the case? What could he possibly gain from this?


More popularity ? : D

:D

LOLz, made my day.


But seriously, isnt he already the most popular terran player in the world?


He was probably jealous of the "sick nerd baller" MC ^_^
"i've made some empty promises in my life, but hands down that was the most generous" - Michael Scott
MLG_Wiggin
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States767 Posts
August 23 2011 12:36 GMT
#1796
On August 23 2011 21:29 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:27 w_Ender_w wrote:
Alicia made a post on twitter. I bet he's still practicing every day, not waiting for a patch to solve his problems or switching his race.

Probably. But probably not much PvT, and he'll probably just allin a bunch. Look at the ludicrous G3 of MC v Puma to see how insane this is making Protoss players. Phoenix into blink into DT into hidden base into base trade to try and beat it. Nobody has a clue what to do and they've basically given up trying.

That every Protoss player in the world has given up is quite the assumption to make.
@DBWiggin, SC2 ref
IVN
Profile Joined October 2010
534 Posts
August 23 2011 12:37 GMT
#1797
On August 23 2011 21:24 ClueLessx3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:21 GinDo wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:00 ClueLessx3 wrote:
What about hallucinations?
- Sentries hallucinating a few more zealots to make your main army more robust.
- FF All the marines towards you and let the splash dmg from the Siege tank work in our favour
- Sentries can't be PDDed so destroy it by focusing it down. If possible snipe the raven
* Possible contain to delay the push and thus getting more units out to deal with it

So that's the pros. Cons:
- Uses too much gas, meaning slow tech and therefore slower robo for the observer.
- Sentries are really fragile and can be focused down easily (:0 siege tank target fire them, painful to watch QQ
- Need a lot of them for GS, FF and Hallucination thus hurting your main army

What do you think? :x


Um....The 1-1-1 PDD push has a Raven O_o.


I was thinking of sniping it...somehow =3= dw
i'm running out of ideas

Lets watch the gsl to see if he holds the 111 :D CMON YOU CAN DO IT GENIUS!

Owned hard.

Although this wasnt the exact build we are discussing here. Stimed marines with shields + tanks and medivacs of one base.

I think the problem is either the MULE, which makes sooooo many marines for terran possible, or the marines are too strong.
DertoQq
Profile Joined October 2010
France906 Posts
August 23 2011 12:38 GMT
#1798
Artosis on GSL basically said "Protoss should stop playing so greedy. 1-gate expand vs 1 base all-in terran, what did he expected ?"

Can someone tell him how wrong he is ? : <
"i've made some empty promises in my life, but hands down that was the most generous" - Michael Scott
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 23 2011 12:39 GMT
#1799
hehe, in the GSL RO16 + Show Spoiler +
Genius just lost his first game to 1-1-1 but there was no banshees or ravens and he scouted the MT just as they were moving out so only got 1 immortal and messed up his ffs losing about 5 ffs with only 1 marine killed.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
MLG_Wiggin
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States767 Posts
August 23 2011 12:43 GMT
#1800
On August 23 2011 21:31 DertoQq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:27 w_Ender_w wrote:
I mean just look at the whole 2 rax/pulled SCV all-in trend that looked unstoppable for almost an entire GSL. Nothing really changed, but now most Terran's don't do that because it got 'solved' to an extent.



kinda different, it was never "unstoppable", it was just really hard to scout and happened unexpectedly. But if you know its coming, you don't lose. Like any all-in.


I think it's a pretty apt analogy. Both are hard to scout (well, hard to scout what specific variation) and the push can happen unexpectedly. Eventually Zerg players figured out how to play less greedy without giving up an advantage, and it fell by the wayside. I think the Zerg over-all winrate for that GSL was probably similar to the Protoss over-all winrate is now in that match up.
@DBWiggin, SC2 ref
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