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Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 91

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST
link0
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1071 Posts
August 23 2011 12:44 GMT
#1801
How is this all-in much different from one of the many Protoss 1 base all-ins such as the 3G VR?
http://www.justin.tv/link0 - Gosu.Linko - http://www.facebook.com/link0
Paradice
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand431 Posts
August 23 2011 12:45 GMT
#1802
On August 23 2011 21:38 DertoQq wrote:
Artosis on GSL basically said "Protoss should stop playing so greedy. 1-gate expand vs 1 base all-in terran, what did he expected ?"

Can someone tell him how wrong he is ? : <


I know, that was strange - the first time in a long time I've observed Artosis to be outdated in his analysis.
kvmetternich
Profile Joined April 2011
Italy35 Posts
August 23 2011 12:46 GMT
#1803
My 2 cents : Would be interesting if blizzy gives the ability to phoenix to shoot toward the ground. If you open with 1gate/stargate and focus your chronos on the stargate itself, for the 8 min mark you can have a decent amount of phoenix and you are now able to do damage during the terran army travell to your base.
And, as a side effect, this can resolve the harrass problem vs Zerg. Just imagine a dt/phoenix combo with phoenix that takes cover to the dts... :D

Sorry for my bad English!
DertoQq
Profile Joined October 2010
France906 Posts
August 23 2011 12:46 GMT
#1804
On August 23 2011 21:43 w_Ender_w wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:31 DertoQq wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:27 w_Ender_w wrote:
I mean just look at the whole 2 rax/pulled SCV all-in trend that looked unstoppable for almost an entire GSL. Nothing really changed, but now most Terran's don't do that because it got 'solved' to an extent.



kinda different, it was never "unstoppable", it was just really hard to scout and happened unexpectedly. But if you know its coming, you don't lose. Like any all-in.


I think it's a pretty apt analogy. Both are hard to scout (well, hard to scout what specific variation) and the push can happen unexpectedly. Eventually Zerg players figured out how to play less greedy without giving up an advantage, and it fell by the wayside. I think the Zerg over-all winrate for that GSL was probably similar to the Protoss over-all winrate is now in that match up.


Even when they know its coming, protoss players will most likely lose, that's the thing. Look at the last game of Puma vs MC, MC had like 10min to prepare to the all-in, he knew since the start it was coming, but couldn't do anything.
This would never happen with a 2rax scv all-in.
"i've made some empty promises in my life, but hands down that was the most generous" - Michael Scott
tnud
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden2233 Posts
August 23 2011 12:46 GMT
#1805
On August 23 2011 21:44 link0 wrote:
How is this all-in much different from one of the many Protoss 1 base all-ins such as the 3G VR?

If scouted this build is still extremely hard to stop. (if not impossible properly executed)
If you scout any other all in you can defend it.
- ಠ_ಠ - | disinfect wrote: AHAHHAHAHA 2DG FUCK ME ALREADY.
Dalavita
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1113 Posts
August 23 2011 12:48 GMT
#1806
On August 23 2011 21:46 DertoQq wrote:
Even when they know its coming, protoss players will most likely lose, that's the thing. Look at the last game of Puma vs MC, MC had like 10min to prepare to the all-in, he knew since the start it was coming, but couldn't do anything.
This would never happen with a 2rax scv all-in.


With more practice, they'll learn to adapt to it, especially if they know it's coming.
Shagg
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland825 Posts
August 23 2011 12:48 GMT
#1807
Protoss players could stop QQ and start searching for an answer to this strat imo : p
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
IVN
Profile Joined October 2010
534 Posts
August 23 2011 12:49 GMT
#1808
On August 23 2011 21:44 link0 wrote:
How is this all-in much different from one of the many Protoss 1 base all-ins such as the 3G VR?

If you scout 3g VR, you put down 2 bunkers, and its easy mode from there.

If you scout 111, you die regardless.
truewt
Profile Joined June 2008
Singapore121 Posts
August 23 2011 12:50 GMT
#1809
On August 23 2011 21:48 Dalavita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:46 DertoQq wrote:
Even when they know its coming, protoss players will most likely lose, that's the thing. Look at the last game of Puma vs MC, MC had like 10min to prepare to the all-in, he knew since the start it was coming, but couldn't do anything.
This would never happen with a 2rax scv all-in.


With more practice, they'll learn to adapt to it, especially if they know it's coming.


But it's not that the P pros are not practicing enough, is that the case? But look at the many GSL/IEM games, even if you scout/guess it happens, the P players lose majority of the games.
for Adun!
JediGamer
Profile Joined August 2010
United States656 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 12:54:05
August 23 2011 12:50 GMT
#1810
When I offrace protoss on ladder (vs top GM,s , etc), I've been getting away with 1gaterobo into 4 gate blink stalkers. There is not 1 terran unit that can force you to stand ground, except if he gets all the way to your base. Plus you can counterattack and snipe the CC or raven and mass zealots while getting dt.

Dealing with 1-1-1 , tons of strats come to mind, like the phoenix or 1 gate robo open Tyler mentioned. I think the worst thing protoss players can do is basically plea helplessness.

Now lets terrans make a thread about a voidray cheeses, even though just like 1-1-1 they are holdable.

MC said it himself "1-1-1 is holdable if u scout well"
http://www.z33k.com/starcraft2/coach/sc2coaching Tastosis Approved Coaching
DertoQq
Profile Joined October 2010
France906 Posts
August 23 2011 12:50 GMT
#1811
if think Genius is pissed, he will probably void-ray all-in every game from now : D
"i've made some empty promises in my life, but hands down that was the most generous" - Michael Scott
MLG_Wiggin
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States767 Posts
August 23 2011 12:50 GMT
#1812
On August 23 2011 21:44 link0 wrote:
How is this all-in much different from one of the many Protoss 1 base all-ins such as the 3G VR?

Because this time it's those OTHER guys doing it! And those OTHER guys playing that OTHER race have it easier then US guys playing OUR race!

On August 23 2011 21:46 DertoQq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:43 w_Ender_w wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:31 DertoQq wrote:
On August 23 2011 21:27 w_Ender_w wrote:
I mean just look at the whole 2 rax/pulled SCV all-in trend that looked unstoppable for almost an entire GSL. Nothing really changed, but now most Terran's don't do that because it got 'solved' to an extent.



kinda different, it was never "unstoppable", it was just really hard to scout and happened unexpectedly. But if you know its coming, you don't lose. Like any all-in.


I think it's a pretty apt analogy. Both are hard to scout (well, hard to scout what specific variation) and the push can happen unexpectedly. Eventually Zerg players figured out how to play less greedy without giving up an advantage, and it fell by the wayside. I think the Zerg over-all winrate for that GSL was probably similar to the Protoss over-all winrate is now in that match up.


Even when they know its coming, protoss players will most likely lose, that's the thing. Look at the last game of Puma vs MC, MC had like 10min to prepare to the all-in, he knew since the start it was coming, but couldn't do anything.
This would never happen with a 2rax scv all-in.

Dude the GSL was full of examples of Zerg players trying different things to stop a 2-rax all-in and fail. Eventually they got it. Just because MC tried things and it didn't work doesn't mean he was trying the right thing to do and it's just unstoppable, and let's be honest the things MC tried to do were pretty all over the place. But his phoenix opening did stop the 1 base timing in that game three, he just lost the over-all game.
@DBWiggin, SC2 ref
mazqo
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland368 Posts
August 23 2011 12:51 GMT
#1813
On August 23 2011 21:44 link0 wrote:
How is this all-in much different from one of the many Protoss 1 base all-ins such as the 3G VR?

Every protoss allin is counterable with std buildorder while siegemarinebanshee is extremely hard to counter even if you do blind counter
Qzy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Denmark1121 Posts
August 23 2011 12:51 GMT
#1814
On August 23 2011 21:45 Paradice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2011 21:38 DertoQq wrote:
Artosis on GSL basically said "Protoss should stop playing so greedy. 1-gate expand vs 1 base all-in terran, what did he expected ?"

Can someone tell him how wrong he is ? : <


I know, that was strange - the first time in a long time I've observed Artosis to be outdated in his analysis.



If you read Tylers reply to this thread, you see him being just as wrong.
1 gate expo is best, just gotta cut probes when terran doesn't expand.
TG Sambo... Intel classic! Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Pepe-
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany87 Posts
August 23 2011 12:51 GMT
#1815
Protoss allin cause theyre scared terrans allin. That seems to be the future of PvT if Blizzard doesnt change 1/1/1.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 23 2011 12:51 GMT
#1816
Genius v Virus in GSL is busy showing how 1/1/1 has destroyed the matchup even when it isn't actually used at all.
Barkziee
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom138 Posts
August 23 2011 12:52 GMT
#1817
1-1-1 is figured out btw. Proxy stargate and hope they dont find it or make too many marines for a quick GG
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom621 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 12:53:36
August 23 2011 12:53 GMT
#1818
Why is 3gate VR considered to be imbalanced in Korea?
CellTech
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada396 Posts
August 23 2011 12:53 GMT
#1819
Too bad we couldn't see 3g1sg vs. 1-1-1
^ Probably a Troll Post
SolidGasPro
Profile Joined August 2011
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-23 13:12:35
August 23 2011 12:53 GMT
#1820
+ Show Spoiler [gsl spoilers] +
Genius owned, so I guess it's time for Terran to QQ? Nah, we don't QQ
"HuK doesn't use Penix." MC
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