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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST |
On August 23 2011 19:56 Sweetness.751 wrote:
My two cents is this. Though it is a really good push. I find it relatively easy to hold. It all comes down to scouting.
First off I always 1gate expand vs Terran if I can help it.
1.) If you see a lot of marines at the top of the ramp and no CC (especially with a bunker) you know he is teching. Which means they have little production at the moment and can't attack.
2.) If say on Shakuras or Tal'darim they have marines at their natural ramp, then you know they expanded (or are pretending). Which means then have little production at the moment and can't attack.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
Yeah, you're playing dumb people. Why would a smart terran put all his units at the choke / natural ramp and reveal his amount of units / army composition. That is stupid.
All he needs is an scv/marine at the watch tower(s) and very few units at the choke / natural ramp to kill scouting probes.
Also:
On August 23 2011 19:56 Sweetness.751 wrote:
2.) If say on Shakuras or Tal'darim they have marines at their natural ramp, then you know they expanded (or are pretending). Which means then have little production at the moment and can't attack.
If they're just pretending, they do not have little production at the moment and can attack.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
It's not that easy to scout skilled terrans
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On August 23 2011 19:32 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 19:29 Binabik wrote:
But a pro who reckons something his own race uses as imbalanced is an exception. No, it's the exact same thing. Just because he thinks of something it doesn't have to be right, simple as. Come up with arguments of your own, or actually quote his arguments. Just saying something is so because X said so is not an argument. Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 19:31 IVN wrote:Why should protoss players be required to "figure it out", when all the bitching of the terrans resulted in immediate nerfs, when a protoss push or all in was considered strong? Cry the hell more. Also what protoss pushes got instanerfed?
3gt stargate was nerfed in a matter of one or two weeks after becoming popular. And that happened twice. Once in the beta, when the range was reduced from 7 to 6. And once later when Maka began crying about the same push. Thats when Blizz reduced the charged damage of the voidray from 25 to 16.
And yes it happened fast, there was no time to even start trying things out.
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On August 23 2011 20:41 Wawarox wrote:
imo, the easiest way to fix that is to reduce pdd from 3mins to 30 sec. Let's be honest there is no reasons for it to last that long.
That would not nerf any other terran's strategy. The all in would still be really hard to deal with, that's cool, all ins are supposed to be hard to deal with, but by baiting the pdd you'd be able to do much more damage on the next encounter.
I'm terran btw
baiting = let him throw down the pdd somewhere it won't be as effective (=not at your natural)
doesn't matter if it lasts 1 minute or 5
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On August 23 2011 20:50 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 19:32 Dalavita wrote:On August 23 2011 19:29 Binabik wrote:
But a pro who reckons something his own race uses as imbalanced is an exception. No, it's the exact same thing. Just because he thinks of something it doesn't have to be right, simple as. Come up with arguments of your own, or actually quote his arguments. Just saying something is so because X said so is not an argument. On August 23 2011 19:31 IVN wrote:Why should protoss players be required to "figure it out", when all the bitching of the terrans resulted in immediate nerfs, when a protoss push or all in was considered strong? Cry the hell more. Also what protoss pushes got instanerfed? 3gt stargate was nerfed in a matter of one or two weeks after becoming popular. And that happened twice. Once in the beta, when the range was reduced from 7 to 6. And once later when Maka began crying about the same push. Thats when Blizz reduced the charged damage of the voidray from 25 to 16. And yes it happened fast, there was no time to even start trying things out.
Sorry but voidray are actually strong ~~
Just go 15nexus every game and maybe you'll find a way to deny any terran all ins. Maybe some canons. Maybe it will be nerfed. Anyway this thread is kinda useless. But I do remember a time where every protoss was telling us (zerg) that we cried to fast and to much. Arharharh ! Moar 1-1-1 buddy terrans !
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15nexus is not an option. ever.
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15nex is BO loss to 4rax rine/scv allin. Terran can do this in response to scouting the 15 nex. 15nex is garbage, used out of desperation.
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with static addons for terran production buildings some problems maybe will be fixed...
terra already has the best scouting for free after orbital, it wont hurt if they cant easily switch the addons on buildings to give P and Z better scoutinginformations
it still can be unlocked with an upgrade in later stages of the techtree, with armory for example...
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What about hallucinations?
- Sentries hallucinating a few more zealots to make your main army more robust.
- FF All the marines towards you and let the splash dmg from the Siege tank work in our favour
- Sentries can't be PDDed so destroy it by focusing it down. If possible snipe the raven
* Possible contain to delay the push and thus getting more units out to deal with it
So that's the pros. Cons:
- Uses too much gas, meaning slow tech and therefore slower robo for the observer.
- Sentries are really fragile and can be focused down easily (:0 siege tank target fire them, painful to watch QQ
- Need a lot of them for GS, FF and Hallucination thus hurting your main army
What do you think? :x
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They have a raven, hallucinations do nothing but get in your way. See: MC vs MVP, GSL (wasn't 1/1/1 but same army composition vs hallus).
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Nexus first is still very vulnerable to all ins. It's just different ones.
I think the key to holding this off is phoenix/immortal/zealot into colossi but I need to play against it a lot more to be certain.
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On August 23 2011 21:02 Yaotzin wrote:
They have a raven, hallucinations do nothing but get in your way. See: MC vs MVP, GSL (wasn't 1/1/1 but same army composition vs hallus).
* Possible contain to delay the push and thus getting more units out to deal with it?
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You can't do phoenix/immortal/zealot into collosi. You can barely get out the first part before the push hits, you can't get anywhere near collosi as well.
* Possible contain to delay the push and thus getting more units out to deal with it?
Banshees and tanks are very good at stopping a contain:< You'll buy a little time, but at the huge cost of a bunch of sentries which will get sniped by banshees the instant siege mode finishes.
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On August 23 2011 19:42 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
Why weren't people defending MVP's words so much when he said Terran is the weakest race?
Because when you are complaining about the unndepowerdness of your own race the conflict of interest is apparent. If MC or Nestea at that time also stated that terran is too weak, I would've been inclined to believe.
But if a player is saying that his race is too strong in some way, then it does sound legit, since there is nothing to be gained for that player. There is no best case scenario, only the worst case (Blizz nerfs his own race).
So why would MVP say 111 is imbalanced, if it werent really the case? What could he possibly gain from this?
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On August 23 2011 21:07 IVN wrote:
So why would MVP say 111 is imbalanced, if it werent really the case? What could he possibly gain from this?
More popularity ? : D
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On August 23 2011 20:34 Joseph123 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 20:32 w_Ender_w wrote:On August 23 2011 20:28 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:21 w_Ender_w wrote:I think if people played as much as they theorycrafted in this thread someone might come up with a solution to 1/1/1  u mean guys like Alicia who only write on twitter about 1-1-1 and not play at all right? Sorry, I must have missed Alicia's posts about what Terran units need to be nerfed to solve 1 build so now Alicia is a balance designer?
I think there must be some misunderstanding lost in translation here.
All I'm saying is that this balance discussion and theorycrafting is kind of worthless. Nothing is going to do anything but getting into games and working it out. That's what Alicia is doing, not posting on TL about it.
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On August 23 2011 21:03 Ravomat wrote:
Nexus first is still very vulnerable to all ins. It's just different ones.
I think the key to holding this off is phoenix/immortal/zealot into colossi but I need to play against it a lot more to be certain.
In my experience Ive been able to hold almost every terran allin with nexus first, ofcourse, these are to be done on the bigger maps.
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On August 23 2011 21:09 w_Ender_w wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 20:34 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:32 w_Ender_w wrote:On August 23 2011 20:28 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:21 w_Ender_w wrote:I think if people played as much as they theorycrafted in this thread someone might come up with a solution to 1/1/1 u mean guys like Alicia who only write on twitter about 1-1-1 and not play at all right? Sorry, I must have missed Alicia's posts about what Terran units need to be nerfed to solve 1 build so now Alicia is a balance designer? I think there must be some misunderstanding lost in translation here. All I'm saying is that this balance discussion and theorycrafting is kind of worthless. Nothing is going to do anything but getting into games and working it out. That's what Alicia is doing, not posting on TL about it.
No he's posting on twitter because his practice sessions have lead him to same conclusions as everyone elses: you can't stop it.
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On August 23 2011 21:13 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:09 w_Ender_w wrote:On August 23 2011 20:34 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:32 w_Ender_w wrote:On August 23 2011 20:28 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:21 w_Ender_w wrote:I think if people played as much as they theorycrafted in this thread someone might come up with a solution to 1/1/1 u mean guys like Alicia who only write on twitter about 1-1-1 and not play at all right? Sorry, I must have missed Alicia's posts about what Terran units need to be nerfed to solve 1 build so now Alicia is a balance designer? I think there must be some misunderstanding lost in translation here. All I'm saying is that this balance discussion and theorycrafting is kind of worthless. Nothing is going to do anything but getting into games and working it out. That's what Alicia is doing, not posting on TL about it. No he's posting on twitter because his practice sessions have lead him to same conclusions as everyone elses: you can't stop it.
Then everyone should just quit playing Protoss. Or keep trying. Up to you? :D
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On August 23 2011 21:13 Bakkendepao wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:03 Ravomat wrote:
Nexus first is still very vulnerable to all ins. It's just different ones.
I think the key to holding this off is phoenix/immortal/zealot into colossi but I need to play against it a lot more to be certain. In my experience Ive been able to hold almost every terran allin with nexus first, ofcourse, these are to be done on the bigger maps.
Didn't Killer lost like 3 time in a row trying to nexus first ?
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On August 23 2011 21:15 w_Ender_w wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:13 Yaotzin wrote:On August 23 2011 21:09 w_Ender_w wrote:On August 23 2011 20:34 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:32 w_Ender_w wrote:On August 23 2011 20:28 Joseph123 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:21 w_Ender_w wrote:I think if people played as much as they theorycrafted in this thread someone might come up with a solution to 1/1/1 u mean guys like Alicia who only write on twitter about 1-1-1 and not play at all right? Sorry, I must have missed Alicia's posts about what Terran units need to be nerfed to solve 1 build so now Alicia is a balance designer? I think there must be some misunderstanding lost in translation here. All I'm saying is that this balance discussion and theorycrafting is kind of worthless. Nothing is going to do anything but getting into games and working it out. That's what Alicia is doing, not posting on TL about it. No he's posting on twitter because his practice sessions have lead him to same conclusions as everyone elses: you can't stop it. Then everyone should just quit playing Protoss. Or keep trying. Up to you? :D
People look pretty close to race switching, as Zergs were before the patches saved them. Many Protoss look on tilt from the start in PvT, including MC.
Didn't Killer lost like 3 time in a row trying to nexus first ?
He did 15nexus 3 times in a row against SelecT. Twice he got scouted early and SelecT killed him with a 4rax marine/scv allin. The other time he didn't get scouted and held the 1/1/1. It's exactly what PvT is going to be until this is patched. 15nex and pray they don't scout you.
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EPT
