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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST | ||
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kedinik
United States352 Posts
On August 22 2011 18:54 Mandalor wrote: why do so many zerg players chime in and say this? if zerg KNOWS an allin is coming... Hahahahahah. Yeah that's kind of the whole point. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
Would be interesting to see who was the most benefited. If T has chrono instead of Mules i guess we'd just get out our units sooner and wouldn't pull scv's as often. | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
The 1/1/1 push is the hardest push to hold; PvZ, PvP, or PvT, the 1/1/1 is the strongest; bio pushes don't even compare; roach/ling isn't even close. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
That is what is needed. Let the metagame balance out this little ruffle. It is far from a free win, but it is a potent all-in (which there are many in SC2). | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On August 23 2011 05:58 Serthius wrote: So what game changes were made recently to make 1/1/1 too powerful? Warpgate nerf + some other changes, terrans then realized they can go 1/1/1 and protoss can't punish them at all, the only counter to 1/1/1 now is a fast expo, which still loses to it and terran can scout it and then destroy protoss with 2rax. | ||
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rareh
Portugal298 Posts
On August 23 2011 05:58 Serthius wrote: So what game changes were made recently to make 1/1/1 too powerful? Protoss started to play very greedy, then when they are punished, they cry about imbalance. | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:02 Zorgaz wrote: Haha it would be hilarious if Mule and Chronoboost would be swapped out (With different names/animations/models. Would be interesting to see who was the most benefited. If T has chrono instead of Mules i guess we'd just get out our units sooner and wouldn't pull scv's as often. Terran mech would be OP, and that's saying something. | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:07 rareh wrote: Protoss started to play very greedy, then when they are punished, they cry about imbalance. ROFL The thing is that for Protoss to hold off that push you have to play greedy. You can't beat it with a 3gate expand or 1 base play sadly T_T Also warp gate nerf didn't help | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:07 rareh wrote: Protoss started to play very greedy, then when they are punished, they cry about imbalance. You are a smart guy...no wait Read the OP | ||
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Twiggs
United States600 Posts
On August 23 2011 05:51 Raid wrote: Well, the thing is its going to be a huge nerf if we go after 1/1/1 because that its the entire terran tech tree and I am not sure how they would go about nerfing an entire tech tree. This 1/1/1 business is not that big a deal because I believe protoss have the tools to stop this. Like imo fast phoenix play is very potent considering your only having marines off 1 rax and your only other aa is from starport which you want to spend all your gas into either banshee/tank stuff. Or possibly hittng a timing with warp prisms like white ra does. IMO StarCraft strategy should not be about coinflips and counters. Each race should have solid macro strategies that are safe against most opposing strategies and that allows for skill in order to pull out a victory. I don't want to have to force a unit (pheonix) in order to counter another unit ect ect. In order to be safe they must incorporate many things, such as detection, map size, and attack timings etc which is why its very hard to balance. What strategy should not be is like rock, paper, scissors where I lose because I chose the wrong one. Strategies set the tone of the game, the don't decide the game. A players strat provides the setting of his play but it should be up to his control and decisions in battle to decide if he wins or not. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:06 TimeSpiral wrote: All we can do is hope the developers let this thing play out for a little while. That is what is needed. Let the metagame balance out this little ruffle. It is far from a free win, but it is a potent all-in (which there are many in SC2). Too bad no terran had this mindset, when 7 range voids, flux vanes and KA were still in the game. :-( | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:07 rareh wrote: Protoss started to play very greedy, then when they are punished, they cry about imbalance. Ah yes, that must be it. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:06 TimeSpiral wrote: All we can do is hope the developers let this thing play out for a little while. That is what is needed. Let the metagame balance out this little ruffle. It is far from a free win, but it is a potent all-in (which there are many in SC2). No. Every time there was a "problem" with protoss according to terran or zerg players blizzard rushed to the nerfbat. Zealot build time, amulet, void ray speed, warpgate timings, etc etc. They also buffed zerg a lot because of zerg qq. This has resulted in protoss just being too weak and having too few options, which was a problem with them already (and for zerg as well) because the only race blizzard really put effort into was terran. Instead of designing all races to be equally potent terran got the good stuff because their campaign came first. I really hope the expansions will bring significant changes because that will be the only thing that can make the game more interesting. As it is right now, it's nothing compared to sc1. All those other things such as zealot build time, amulet, voidray speed, warpgate timings and more were just nerfed into oblivion at the moment T/Z had problems with them. No chance for the metagame to change there, why should the metagame have a chance to change now? By the way, most of those nerfs should be (partially) reverted and other significant changes need to be made to make the game more fun, balanced and challenging for all races. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:14 H0i wrote: No. Every time there was a "problem" with protoss according to terran or zerg players blizzard rushed to the nerfbat. Zealot build time, amulet, void ray speed, warpgate timings, etc etc. They also buffed zerg a lot because of zerg qq. This has resulted in protoss just being too weak and having too few options, which was a problem with them already (and for zerg as well) because the only race blizzard really put effort into was terran. Instead of designing all races to be equally potent terran got the good stuff because their campaign came first. I really hope the expansions will bring significant changes because that will be the only thing that can make the game more interesting. As it is right now, it's nothing compared to sc1. All those other things such as zealot build time, amulet, voidray speed, warpgate timings and more were just nerfed into oblivion at the moment T/Z had problems with them. No chance for the metagame to change there, why should the metagame have a chance to change now? By the way, most of those nerfs should be (partially) reverted and other significant changes need to be made to make the game more fun, balanced and challenging for all races. I think you are 100% right. I want those old 7 range voids back, so I can rape 111 scrubs with them. | ||
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Blackk
South Africa226 Posts
edit: having said that i believe that protoss on ladder should spend more time to find a way to deal with the build for now and less time whining. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:17 Blackk wrote: I think that blizzard just has to address the matter with marines, i think they should be given a defensive earlygame/antiair role and mech should be buffed to be the staple of terran armies. edit: having said that i believe that protoss on ladder should spend more time to find a way to deal with the build for now and less time whining. And why is that? Whining has worked wonders for T and Z. | ||
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JelleSlaets
Belgium57 Posts
2nd place on China GM ladder is Protoss 3rd place on SEA GM ladder is Protoss Some players figured out how to beat it. Or did they all of a sudden stop using effective strats on ladder? Just give Blizzard some time on this. They have already explained how they use bnet statistics to get weighted statistics based on skill / match-up. They also said that they would do emergency patches when the balance all of a sudden shifts towards a side. Meanwhile, I'm sure people will come up with some strat that can throw terran of containing, whether it be void rays or warp prism harass. I'm glad they are in charge of balance and not the community. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:06 TimeSpiral wrote: All we can do is hope the developers let this thing play out for a little while. That is what is needed. Let the metagame balance out this little ruffle. It is far from a free win, but it is a potent all-in (which there are many in SC2). You have like 15 posts in that huge KA whine thread that reached 70 pages around the time Blizzard removed it, arguing in favor of its removal. Why wasn't letting the game play out the preferable option back then? Besides, at the moment, this is probably the single most powerful all-in since SC2's release. Maybe the 3 Gate VR from before the VR nerf would be contender. At the GSL level Protoss literally doesn't win against this build unless the Terran makes a huge mistake. So yeah, at the moment it is very much a free win on that level of play. | ||
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:17 Blackk wrote: I think that blizzard just has to address the matter with marines, i think they should be given a defensive earlygame/antiair role and mech should be buffed to be the staple of terran armies. edit: having said that i believe that protoss on ladder should spend more time to find a way to deal with the build for now and less time whining. Yes, I'm sure that Protoss' on ladder (especially in Korea) have not gone to great lengths to find a reliable way to stop the 1-1-1. The very fact that the OP / Gisado were able to put together a document illustrating the problems with defending this all-in and mention the only 2 possible counters suggests that all alternative options have been exhausted. Think, before you post. | ||
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CP-Jun
Australia278 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:26 JelleSlaets wrote: 1st place on Korean GM ladder is Protoss. 2nd place on China GM ladder is Protoss 3rd place on SEA GM ladder is Protoss Some players figured out how to beat it. Or did they all of a sudden stop using effective strats on ladder? Just give Blizzard some time on this. They have already explained how they use bnet statistics to get weighted statistics based on skill / match-up. They also said that they would do emergency patches when the balance all of a sudden shifts towards a side. Meanwhile, I'm sure people will come up with some strat that can throw terran of containing, whether it be void rays or warp prism harass. I'm glad they are in charge of balance and not the community. No. 1st Place on Korean GM is NOT Protoss. That Protoss got into GM with a map hack and it's been a huge issue in Korean community. So excluding him leaves mostly Terran's in this case | ||
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