On August 23 2011 01:59 SentinelSC2 wrote: Good thing we have reav--- wait shit
Reavers were also a high tech unit - tech wise it is identical to a colossus... There wasn't a need for a lower tech AoE unit in BW because marines weren't overpowering.
DEEP 6 Hwaiting! :D
And this was done by the reaver of the forum. Haven't seen him in too long
On August 23 2011 05:19 Raid wrote: I don't think we should nerf terran if this is an issue with TvP they should just give protoss a buff that will help them defend this push. I don't think this push is unstoppable and I just think people need more experience playing against it because honestly there has been a lot of strats that looked unstoppable but fizzled out like 2 rax all ins and what not.
Suggest a possible buff Please keep the fragilety of ZvP atm in mind, and remember that it may not buff 4 gate (thus, nothing on Gateway units) gogogo!
On August 23 2011 04:53 {ToT}ColmA wrote: that whine is kinda annoying cuz if u play vs p and u dont play 111 he will still whine after the game that u did ...thats kinda sad :3
because terran players never complain after losing lategame against colossus templar carrier right?
gj not getting the point, brilliant move :3 *facepalm*
Come to think of it, I remember Jinro using it in GSL and winning everytime he used it. 1. He used it on choya on steppes of war, and won. He then used it on hongun and won. Then he played standard the other 2 games and lost. Just shows that 1-1-1 was always alive and kicking even before all the patches
I dont know if it has been already said but, one good think I do against terran now is gaz stealing, that allows me to have a better scouting and mostly prevent cloack. So I dont focus on having a robo, or making 2-3 obs.
Despite of this, I still lose against 1-1-1, but I feel more comfortable.
On August 23 2011 05:21 koolaid1990 wrote: Come to think of it, I remember Jinro using it in GSL and winning everytime he used it. 1. He used it on choya on steppes of war, and won. He then used it on hongun and won. Then he played standard the other 2 games and lost. Just shows that 1-1-1 was always alive and kicking even before all the patches
Thats what i think and i think that no terran ever use it against david kim. If they would it would be gone long time ago.
On August 23 2011 01:59 SentinelSC2 wrote: Good thing we have reav--- wait shit
Reavers were also a high tech unit - tech wise it is identical to a colossus... There wasn't a need for a lower tech AoE unit in BW because marines weren't overpowering.
DEEP 6 Hwaiting! :D
And this was done by the reaver of the forum. Haven't seen him in too long
On August 23 2011 04:56 skatbone wrote: Has anyone tried or seen a pro try mass hallucinations to tank damage (hallucinated Archons perhaps?)? Hit straight on with the hallucinations and flank with zealots?
I've read a lot of this thread but not all of it, so please excuse me if this has been raised.
I find the many 1-1-1s difficult to defend and I appreciate the OPs summary of how Koreans are reacting to it.
I thought of hallucinations but most of the time the 1-1-1 comes with a raven which completely nullifies hallucination, putting you down 100/100 if anything.
On a side note, PDDs will shoot down hallucinated stalker shots even while detected and waste their energy, so it's a decent counter to PDD when you don't have templars or sentries in range.
Just had the thought and tested it in the editor, but it may be too fragile to invest in. It may let stalkers do some actual damage during this defend after you clean the PDD out.
Edit: Eh, too bad. It was already on the wiki. Oh well.
Davie is a random player in Masters (or is it GM?). I think he is one of the highest ranked random players in the world, but not sure.
Yes but hes a blizzard employee to and is testing the game for balance purpose.
Hrmm and I wonder what Blizzards thoughts are on balance. Oh I don't because they already said they think P is underpowered. Its just a silly discussion. Blizzard plays a shit ton of games like everybody and people don't give them enough credit. If it was a really big problem they thought they could easily change with one balance fix they would, but thats generally not how patching works. So they will take their time, because the balance isn't so bad that we cannot win games.
I kind of feel like super fast warp prisms are a really good idea vs anyone who is planning on being aggressive. And if you make one before the T pushes out, and keep it alive, there is no way he can afford to just sit at the bottom of your ramp forever, because you are A. Harassing him and B. Have a way to expand around his contain. So I will try making a warp prism next time I think they are gonna try a 1-1-1 (which is really more like a 2-1-1 since you usually get more than one Rax right? Just after the factory and starport?)
On August 23 2011 03:37 Jimmy Raynor wrote: Funny thing is that every time that a protoss holds the 1/1/1 protoss players start saying how "wrong" was the build executed. Also the he 2nd attack of Puma was just a desperate move but MC's greediness made him lose the game. Also why is no one discussing how socke hold Select's 1/1/1 with colossus or was it executed "wrong" because the terran lost?
Dunno about wrong, but Puma's 1-1-1 hit at the 10-minute mark and Socke's Colossi range didn't finish until the 11-minute mark. It's of course hard to know but if you look at both games Socke doesn't seem prepared for Puma's timing.
On August 23 2011 01:59 SentinelSC2 wrote: Good thing we have reav--- wait shit
Reavers were also a high tech unit - tech wise it is identical to a colossus... There wasn't a need for a lower tech AoE unit in BW because marines weren't overpowering.
DEEP 6 Hwaiting! :D
And this was done by the reaver of the forum. Haven't seen him in too long
How old is that ? Never saw this before..even in the pimpest play Videos
lol! Imagine just imagine a marauder in that game.... Still what changed? Stalkers do less damage (1/2 actually) but are less clunky than dragoons, Marines come with 6 range instead of 5. I dont know how this situation could occur in SC 2 though. Bio units are undoubtedly stronger for Terran in this game.
To tie this in to OP Marines are very strong in SC 2, valued in every match up and are a vital part of the 1-1-1 all in strat. When it comes down to it the Marines are what fuel the 1-1-1. Gateway units do fine vs Tanks/Banshees.
Is it Imba? IMO the strategy is not, but in my experience Terran can safely all in and still be fine with the power of the mule, that might be imba.
On August 23 2011 01:59 SentinelSC2 wrote: Good thing we have reav--- wait shit
Reavers were also a high tech unit - tech wise it is identical to a colossus... There wasn't a need for a lower tech AoE unit in BW because marines weren't overpowering.
DEEP 6 Hwaiting! :D
And this was done by the reaver of the forum. Haven't seen him in too long
How old is that ? Never saw this before..even in the pimpest play Videos
lol! Imagine just imagine a marauder in that game.... Still what changed? Stalkers do less damage (1/2 actually) but are less clunky than dragoons, Marines come with 6 range instead of 5. I dont know how this situation could occur in SC 2 though. Bio units are undoubtedly stronger for Terran in this game.
To tie this in to OP Marines are very strong in SC 2, valued in every match up and are a vital part of the 1-1-1 all in strat. When it comes down to it the Marines are what fuel the 1-1-1. Gateway units do fine vs Tanks/Banshees.
Is it Imba? IMO the strategy is not, but in my experience Terran can safely all in and still be fine with the power of the mule, that might be imba.
Don't forget how zealots were significantly nerfed, and how marines do more damage and can be made twice as fast with reactors, and how they clump up more allowing them to be more effective, and how terran has mule, and how maps...................... (etc etc)
On August 23 2011 05:19 Raid wrote: I don't think we should nerf terran if this is an issue with TvP they should just give protoss a buff that will help them defend this push. I don't think this push is unstoppable and I just think people need more experience playing against it because honestly there has been a lot of strats that looked unstoppable but fizzled out like 2 rax all ins and what not.
Suggest a possible buff Please keep the fragilety of ZvP atm in mind, and remember that it may not buff 4 gate (thus, nothing on Gateway units) gogogo!
Well, the thing is its going to be a huge nerf if we go after 1/1/1 because that its the entire terran tech tree and I am not sure how they would go about nerfing an entire tech tree. This 1/1/1 business is not that big a deal because I believe protoss have the tools to stop this. Like imo fast phoenix play is very potent considering your only having marines off 1 rax and your only other aa is from starport which you want to spend all your gas into either banshee/tank stuff. Or possibly hittng a timing with warp prisms like white ra does.
On August 23 2011 01:59 SentinelSC2 wrote: Good thing we have reav--- wait shit
Reavers were also a high tech unit - tech wise it is identical to a colossus... There wasn't a need for a lower tech AoE unit in BW because marines weren't overpowering.
DEEP 6 Hwaiting! :D
And this was done by the reaver of the forum. Haven't seen him in too long
How old is that ? Never saw this before..even in the pimpest play Videos
lol! Imagine just imagine a marauder in that game.... Still what changed? Stalkers do less damage (1/2 actually) but are less clunky than dragoons, Marines come with 6 range instead of 5. I dont know how this situation could occur in SC 2 though. Bio units are undoubtedly stronger for Terran in this game.
To tie this in to OP Marines are very strong in SC 2, valued in every match up and are a vital part of the 1-1-1 all in strat. When it comes down to it the Marines are what fuel the 1-1-1. Gateway units do fine vs Tanks/Banshees.
Is it Imba? IMO the strategy is not, but in my experience Terran can safely all in and still be fine with the power of the mule, that might be imba.
Don't forget how zealots were significantly nerfed, and how marines do more damage and can be made twice as fast with reactors, and how they clump up more allowing them to be more effective, and how terran has mule, and how maps...................... (etc etc)
Its a terrans world! But it would be nothing nothing without idra crying about zerg
On August 23 2011 01:59 SentinelSC2 wrote: Good thing we have reav--- wait shit
Reavers were also a high tech unit - tech wise it is identical to a colossus... There wasn't a need for a lower tech AoE unit in BW because marines weren't overpowering.
DEEP 6 Hwaiting! :D
And this was done by the reaver of the forum. Haven't seen him in too long
How old is that ? Never saw this before..even in the pimpest play Videos
lol! Imagine just imagine a marauder in that game.... Still what changed? Stalkers do less damage (1/2 actually) but are less clunky than dragoons, Marines come with 6 range instead of 5. I dont know how this situation could occur in SC 2 though. Bio units are undoubtedly stronger for Terran in this game.
To tie this in to OP Marines are very strong in SC 2, valued in every match up and are a vital part of the 1-1-1 all in strat. When it comes down to it the Marines are what fuel the 1-1-1. Gateway units do fine vs Tanks/Banshees.
Is it Imba? IMO the strategy is not, but in my experience Terran can safely all in and still be fine with the power of the mule, that might be imba.
Don't forget how zealots were significantly nerfed, and how marines do more damage and can be made twice as fast with reactors, and how they clump up more allowing them to be more effective, and how terran has mule, and how maps...................... (etc etc)
Yeah there were a lot of changes made that affected the game. SC 2 is not perfect, and it wasn't close to perfect when it hit the shelves. I think Blizzard really created a lot of problems in SC 2 when they designed the game around Terran. Look at the beta notes, Terran was the most complete race that had very little changed about them in beta. You want to know which race was really messed up? ZERG. Everything they tried failed and had to be redone and fixed and worked with. The design of Zerg just didn't really work out. This made Protoss suffer because their design had to be changed because they simply dominated the poorly designed Zerg. Imagine a dragoon in SC 2 vs Z. It would wreck. But since gateway tech had to be nerfed we are inherently week against Terran tier 1.
Sighhhhh.... I still hate how Blizzard forced the roach and am amazed how that translates to the changing the other two races, but I'm not going to get into that one again.
TL,DR. Terran have the most fluid design in SC 2 period, they can adapt to any situation quicker than the other races. The 1-1-1 is an example, the mix of units is possible because of Terrans design.
Davie is a random player in Masters (or is it GM?). I think he is one of the highest ranked random players in the world, but not sure.
Yes but hes a blizzard employee to and is testing the game for balance purpose.
Hrmm and I wonder what Blizzards thoughts are on balance. Oh I don't because they already said they think P is underpowered. Its just a silly discussion. Blizzard plays a shit ton of games like everybody and people don't give them enough credit. If it was a really big problem they thought they could easily change with one balance fix they would, but thats generally not how patching works. So they will take their time, because the balance isn't so bad that we cannot win games.
I kind of feel like super fast warp prisms are a really good idea vs anyone who is planning on being aggressive. And if you make one before the T pushes out, and keep it alive, there is no way he can afford to just sit at the bottom of your ramp forever, because you are A. Harassing him and B. Have a way to expand around his contain. So I will try making a warp prism next time I think they are gonna try a 1-1-1 (which is really more like a 2-1-1 since you usually get more than one Rax right? Just after the factory and starport?)
Didn't you read OP? Because of protoss expensive and not so good units they need to make more to defend this thus an expo is required. Normally protoss get by because of FF but seige tanks invalidate that strategy. If you sit in your base a good terran will bunker contain outside take an expo and overwhelm the protoss eventutally. Your only choice is to make more units and engage directly and you need the economy the 2nd base provides in order to do that. It's risky as hell but sure death is one basing which is why we have no replays showing it's success in this thread.
Besides that two basing allows a surround which has seen some success. Hide immortals and flank from rear on tanks.