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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST |
On August 22 2011 11:52 CryingPoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:44 Astro-Penguin wrote:
I dont know why i even bother to post in these threads, everyone just cries instead of looking on mistakes they make and how they can fix it. People dont seem to understand reactive play nor taking advantage of pre emptive timings, apparently to 85% of this thread there is no good unit composition avaliable to deal with 1-1-1 (These are probably the guys letting them siege in their nautral and then proceeding to attack down a small ramp then complaining)
1-1-1 is definently a strong build, maybe a bit to strong but far from unbeatable, speaking as a high masters Protoss I can say that this build really isent as bad as this thread is making it out to be. People seem to forget that all inning is always easier for the attacker in most cases, and honestly when you do 1 Base to defend this the terrans mistakes are suddenly alot more damaging to his game due to the fact that you are limiting his chance of success.
It seems people love to cling to flavor of the month imbalances just to satisfy their inflated egos and hop on the bandwagon base said imbalance of sloppy games by pro Protoss players. Masters Protoss in NA is only diamond level protoss in Korea. I am happy to arrange a Master level Korean Terran player while it is being streamed you and him can have multiple matches. If you are willing to call my efforts to translate, which would have of helped some people to gain insights of Korean ladder, an inflated ego - you are pretty disrespectful.
I hope this happens so that this issue can be resolved without having to wait for a Blizzard patch.
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On August 22 2011 11:58 Naughty wrote:
Sounds to me the bulk of the toss population is being meta gamed hard and instead of adapting there play they are crying for nerfs.
This 1/1/1 build seems to be designed to out tech the standard toss play and hit them before there normal timings take effect.
Sounds to me exactly what the zerg population always complained about, so how about take your own advice and try new things.. or more bluntly learn to play.
That's a lie ! I've seen Protoss player holding off 1/1/1 using 1 base colossus.
A : What Terran does in that case is contain a Protoss player with bunkers and seige tanks. (if Terran tries to go up a lamp when a colossi is out, then it is not a well executed 1/1/1. As the number of Seige tank increases it gets harder to break a contain. To break a contain you need to upgrade Thermal Lance, by that time Terran can get couple vikings to prevent colossus attacking bunkers. (Without Thermal Lance, Seige Tanks will out range Colossis that try to attack bunkers) Protoss will have to be forced out of their main.
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On August 22 2011 11:58 Naughty wrote:
Sounds to me the bulk of the toss population is being meta gamed hard and instead of adapting there play they are crying for nerfs.
This 1/1/1 build seems to be designed to out tech the standard toss play and hit them before there normal timings take effect.
Sounds to me exactly what the zerg population always complained about, so how about take your own advice and try new things.. or more bluntly learn to play.
sigh another person who didnt bother to read the OP, doesnt know what the thread is about and possibly doesnt even know what the 1/1/1 is
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On August 22 2011 11:53 tychusfuddley wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:44 Astro-Penguin wrote:
I dont know why i even bother to post in these threads, everyone just cries instead of looking on mistakes they make and how they can fix it. People dont seem to understand reactive play nor taking advantage of pre emptive timings, apparently to 85% of this thread there is no good unit composition avaliable to deal with 1-1-1 (These are probably the guys letting them siege in their nautral and then proceeding to attack down a small ramp then complaining)
1-1-1 is definently a strong build, maybe a bit to strong but far from unbeatable, speaking as a high masters Protoss I can say that this build really isent as bad as this thread is making it out to be. People seem to forget that all inning is always easier for the attacker in most cases, and honestly when you do 1 Base to defend this the terrans mistakes are suddenly alot more damaging to his game due to the fact that you are limiting his chance of success.
It seems people love to cling to flavor of the month imbalances just to satisfy their inflated egos and hop on the bandwagon base said imbalance of sloppy games by pro Protoss players. yeah right, thats why immvp , the best terran in the world says playing this build is disrespectful and he will never play this build ever again. also slayers alicia , a code s protoss tweeting about it, i think he as more knowledge and insight then you, he plays with slayers clan all day, where most of them are top terran in the world right now.
I've never said that this build isen't strong, all im trying to say is that the vast majority of people in this thread have no right to get upset about this build when they are doing risky things and flipping coins. Ive never heard MVP say this is unbeatable by any means, from what I gather all he has said is that its very easy to execute and has a high reward for low risk.
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On August 22 2011 11:58 Astro-Penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:52 CryingPoo wrote:On August 22 2011 11:44 Astro-Penguin wrote:
I dont know why i even bother to post in these threads, everyone just cries instead of looking on mistakes they make and how they can fix it. People dont seem to understand reactive play nor taking advantage of pre emptive timings, apparently to 85% of this thread there is no good unit composition avaliable to deal with 1-1-1 (These are probably the guys letting them siege in their nautral and then proceeding to attack down a small ramp then complaining)
1-1-1 is definently a strong build, maybe a bit to strong but far from unbeatable, speaking as a high masters Protoss I can say that this build really isent as bad as this thread is making it out to be. People seem to forget that all inning is always easier for the attacker in most cases, and honestly when you do 1 Base to defend this the terrans mistakes are suddenly alot more damaging to his game due to the fact that you are limiting his chance of success.
It seems people love to cling to flavor of the month imbalances just to satisfy their inflated egos and hop on the bandwagon base said imbalance of sloppy games by pro Protoss players. Masters Protoss in NA is only diamond level protoss in Korea. I am happy to arrange a Master level Korean Terran player while it is being streamed you and him can have multiple matches. If you are willing to call my efforts to translate, which would have of helped some people to gain insights of Korean ladder, an inflated ego - you are pretty disrespectful. If you really wish to do so im down for it, Im not disagreeing that Korea is a much higher skill level overall but it dosen't change the fact that whinning about a build being easier to execute accomplishes nothing, the only reason people think its easier to execute is because they are trying to play against the odds by doing risky expansions. I mean both Wolf and have Artosis have clearly stated that if you build a Nexus against this build you will lose unless you play perfectly and hope that the terran messes up.
You clearly didnt't read one of my post, Dea-Man Park tries Artosis build to hold off 1/1/1 but he failed 5 times consecutively. He is one of the korean GSL commentator and former BW pro. His opponent was GM ST_SuperStar (aka Random King). You really think you have this game figured out. If you are that confident you should bet your NA account while I will give you a Korean account. I will organize people to watch that stream so all koreans can laugh at your poor attempt. PM me your character code and character name. I will post this on PlayXP to organize a player.
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On August 22 2011 08:48 legaton wrote:
The 1-1-1 build is basically the same thing that the tasteless build from beta, an one base siege tank/marine/banshee/raven all-in. It was a strong strategy in beta, but it was equilibrated by the fact it was extremely risky for terrans, as it could be countered by a 4gate or a 3gate/Stargate. Those two build orders were deadly against a 1-1-1 because the terran player had little to no units early, because he was building 3 buildings at the same time. Therefore, most terrans preferred to a more conservative style, to defend against early VR harrass or a 4gate push.
Both the 4gate (zealot timing, Warpgate tech) and the voidray were nerfed. Therefore, those openings don't work anymore as you don't have that early timing against a terran that's teching. Now, it has become a risk free B.O. for terran players in close positions.
The real problems is that you can't "buff" protoss again because it would put that race on an even foot with terran, but zerg would get raped as they have zero harass options in the early game (except for one base baneling, and that's really bad).
Sadly, i think the game is just fucked because they created a beatiful race that i love to play, terran, but never developed protoss and zerg enough.
Now, i believe the only solution would be a new protoss unit, and that unit is the reaver. Protoss needs a high risk/high damage unit that can be used to break contains. It is also good as a fast reaver could be used to harass and it would be a good opening anyways. On the other hand, it is risky enough as reavers required tons and tons of micro and babysitting, and if you killed the shuttle, it was dead in seconds. Of course, they should bring back the stupid AI as an intelligent reaver scarab would be just too powerful. Bring back the Broodwar reaver (and erase the Colossus, it sucks anyway).
Good analysis but I don't like the conclusion.
Protoss can fight 1:1:1 with what they have.
1:1:1 revolves around a strong mix of complimentary units marines, tanks and banshees/raven.
The best counter to marines or colossus. Best counter to raven/banshees are one Templar backed up by stalkers.BEst counter to tanks are immortals.
The problem with with beating 1:1:1 with all these units is that the cost to reach all of this tech is two expensive compared to building a single factory and starport. You have to invest in structures more than double the gas to have your best 1:1:1 counters.
That means you have to specialize in robo or archives.
I have a few ideas on how to possibly make either one work and ideas like these should be attempted and exhausted before saying 1:1:1 is broken.
Robo path
Research Hallucination and only get one sentry.
Get Immortal and Collossus or Collossus and Thermal Lance if the push timing feels slow. WHen the attak is coming engage in the middle if you have an Immortal or engage at your base if you went Thermal lance. In this fight you will have hallucinated collosus.
The hopeful outcome with the midfield aggression is to kill off the tank with the Immortal or keep pulling back while the colluss does some spalsh to the marines.
The outcome you want to force with the infront of base defense is to hold out long enough for thermal lance become a neutralizing factor to marines.
In both engagements the fake robo unit is supposed to force an extra scan which reduces the power of replenshing your marine count with Mule.
Archives Path.
Research charge only.
Get as many Templar and Stalkers as possible while getting an observer as well.
Charge Zealots are a soft counter to Mariens and tanks. DOn't have them sit outside your base but positon them near your base so they can surround the 1:1:1 push when it reaches your base. You'll want the Templar in a positon to protect your zealots from Banshee harass if the Terran is experienced enough to inspect the surrounding area before moving in and to snipe the Raven/Banshee if hovering over the tank and marines. You'll live or die based on how well the surround goes off.
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there is no imbalance here, you counter this build with SCOUTING, forcefields, a couple immortals, stalkers, and bunch of zealots, preferably with charge but not demanded.
you do not counter this with expanding. expanding is never the _counter_ to anything, especially tech units.
you do not counter this with 1 base collosus, normally there isnt enough time to get them and have any other army, unless its a really late 1-1-1, and youre still gonna need immortals.
you do not counter this with sticking on basic gateway mix and hoping for the best.
there will be no nerfs or buffs, but there will be a lot of protoss players losing until they crawl out of the box they play inside.
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On August 22 2011 05:52 Archs wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pLEzA.jpg) User was warned for this postUser was banned for this post.
LMFAOOOO
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 22 2011 12:03 CryingPoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:58 Astro-Penguin wrote:On August 22 2011 11:52 CryingPoo wrote:On August 22 2011 11:44 Astro-Penguin wrote:
I dont know why i even bother to post in these threads, everyone just cries instead of looking on mistakes they make and how they can fix it. People dont seem to understand reactive play nor taking advantage of pre emptive timings, apparently to 85% of this thread there is no good unit composition avaliable to deal with 1-1-1 (These are probably the guys letting them siege in their nautral and then proceeding to attack down a small ramp then complaining)
1-1-1 is definently a strong build, maybe a bit to strong but far from unbeatable, speaking as a high masters Protoss I can say that this build really isent as bad as this thread is making it out to be. People seem to forget that all inning is always easier for the attacker in most cases, and honestly when you do 1 Base to defend this the terrans mistakes are suddenly alot more damaging to his game due to the fact that you are limiting his chance of success.
It seems people love to cling to flavor of the month imbalances just to satisfy their inflated egos and hop on the bandwagon base said imbalance of sloppy games by pro Protoss players. Masters Protoss in NA is only diamond level protoss in Korea. I am happy to arrange a Master level Korean Terran player while it is being streamed you and him can have multiple matches. If you are willing to call my efforts to translate, which would have of helped some people to gain insights of Korean ladder, an inflated ego - you are pretty disrespectful. If you really wish to do so im down for it, Im not disagreeing that Korea is a much higher skill level overall but it dosen't change the fact that whinning about a build being easier to execute accomplishes nothing, the only reason people think its easier to execute is because they are trying to play against the odds by doing risky expansions. I mean both Wolf and have Artosis have clearly stated that if you build a Nexus against this build you will lose unless you play perfectly and hope that the terran messes up. You clearly didnt't read one of my post, Dea-Man Park tries Artosis build to hold off 1/1/1 but he failed 5 times consecutively. He is one of the korean GSL commentator and former BW pro. His opponent was GM ST_SuperStar (aka Random King). You really think you have this game figured out. If you are that confident you should bet your NA account while I will give you a Korean account. I will organize people to watch that stream so all koreans can laugh at your poor attempt. PM me your character code and character name. I will post this on PlayXP to organize a player.
Im pretty certain there was mistakes he made to be sure, and unfortaunley against 1-1-1 there is no room for error, there is no denying that. Give me a link of said games and id be glad to watch it.
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On August 22 2011 12:05 mutantmagnet wrote:
Archives Path.
Research charge only.
Get as many Templar and Stalkers as possible while getting an observer as well.
Charge Zealots are a soft counter to Mariens and tanks. DOn't have them sit outside your base but positon them near your base so they can surround the 1:1:1 push when it reaches your base. You'll want the Templar in a positon to protect your zealots from Banshee harass if the Terran is experienced enough to inspect the surrounding area before moving in and to snipe the Raven/Banshee if hovering over the tank and marines. You'll live or die based on how well the surround goes off.
I would think that this is way too gas heavy... Council, Charge, Archives, HTs, Robo (for the obs), the actual obs, and you expect to still have much gas left for stalkers on a not-even 2 base economy? I mean I'm not the most qualified person here but that seems a bit much.
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On August 22 2011 12:02 Astro-Penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:53 tychusfuddley wrote:On August 22 2011 11:44 Astro-Penguin wrote:
I dont know why i even bother to post in these threads, everyone just cries instead of looking on mistakes they make and how they can fix it. People dont seem to understand reactive play nor taking advantage of pre emptive timings, apparently to 85% of this thread there is no good unit composition avaliable to deal with 1-1-1 (These are probably the guys letting them siege in their nautral and then proceeding to attack down a small ramp then complaining)
1-1-1 is definently a strong build, maybe a bit to strong but far from unbeatable, speaking as a high masters Protoss I can say that this build really isent as bad as this thread is making it out to be. People seem to forget that all inning is always easier for the attacker in most cases, and honestly when you do 1 Base to defend this the terrans mistakes are suddenly alot more damaging to his game due to the fact that you are limiting his chance of success.
It seems people love to cling to flavor of the month imbalances just to satisfy their inflated egos and hop on the bandwagon base said imbalance of sloppy games by pro Protoss players. yeah right, thats why immvp , the best terran in the world says playing this build is disrespectful and he will never play this build ever again. also slayers alicia , a code s protoss tweeting about it, i think he as more knowledge and insight then you, he plays with slayers clan all day, where most of them are top terran in the world right now. I've never said that this build isen't strong, all im trying to say is that the vast majority of people in this thread have no right to get upset about this build when they are doing risky things and flipping coins. Ive never heard MVP say this is unbeatable by any means, from what I gather all he has said is that its very easy to execute and has a high reward for low risk.
ya its just kind of ridiculous that 1-1-1 is not that all in , cuz u can keep doing the same things three times lol, if protoss makes a slight mistake its gg , todays iem 1 st game vs mc where mc defends it and he is up 30 supply, here comes puma with another all in and kills mc of lol. i just think its stupid that even if u fail the first time with supposedly all in build , you can still comeback and win.
so because of this build lesser skill players are going to keep winning against protoss, they are winning because of not their skills but the stupid build order. this upsets me little bit
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sort of happy that this build exist so now toss can have a taste what its like to be playing as a zerg
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On August 22 2011 06:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Something like this was a possibility ever since so many protoss players began to rely on 15nexus and 1gate expand. I've never understood the economic necessity of expanding so soon. 1gate robo and 1gate star (for phoenix) builds can yield economically sound mid games without sacrificing early game information. I don't think there is such an economic necessity. I think protoss players saw that they could get away with really early expansions and so they did it. Now it's back to being a coinflip like it ought to be. Rushing to gather information remains the most reliable way to get to mid game on even ground or to win outright against opponents not intending to enter mid game. Of course, this requires perfect use of the information, so it is a more difficult way to play until all the necessary knowledge has been discovered, at which point it makes all the things it counters absolutely obsolete. I imagine 1-1-1 is one such thing.
yeah I agree with this. I think builds such as 1gate robo or 2gate robo or some stargate build are probably better than blindly going for a fast expansion.
+ Show Spoiler +
also this
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 22 2011 12:05 mutantmagnet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 08:48 legaton wrote:
The 1-1-1 build is basically the same thing that the tasteless build from beta, an one base siege tank/marine/banshee/raven all-in. It was a strong strategy in beta, but it was equilibrated by the fact it was extremely risky for terrans, as it could be countered by a 4gate or a 3gate/Stargate. Those two build orders were deadly against a 1-1-1 because the terran player had little to no units early, because he was building 3 buildings at the same time. Therefore, most terrans preferred to a more conservative style, to defend against early VR harrass or a 4gate push.
Both the 4gate (zealot timing, Warpgate tech) and the voidray were nerfed. Therefore, those openings don't work anymore as you don't have that early timing against a terran that's teching. Now, it has become a risk free B.O. for terran players in close positions.
The real problems is that you can't "buff" protoss again because it would put that race on an even foot with terran, but zerg would get raped as they have zero harass options in the early game (except for one base baneling, and that's really bad).
Sadly, i think the game is just fucked because they created a beatiful race that i love to play, terran, but never developed protoss and zerg enough.
Now, i believe the only solution would be a new protoss unit, and that unit is the reaver. Protoss needs a high risk/high damage unit that can be used to break contains. It is also good as a fast reaver could be used to harass and it would be a good opening anyways. On the other hand, it is risky enough as reavers required tons and tons of micro and babysitting, and if you killed the shuttle, it was dead in seconds. Of course, they should bring back the stupid AI as an intelligent reaver scarab would be just too powerful. Bring back the Broodwar reaver (and erase the Colossus, it sucks anyway). Good analysis but I don't like the conclusion. Protoss can fight 1:1:1 with what they have. 1:1:1 revolves around a strong mix of complimentary units marines, tanks and banshees/raven. The best counter to marines or colossus. Best counter to raven/banshees are one Templar backed up by stalkers.BEst counter to tanks are immortals. The problem with with beating 1:1:1 with all these units is that the cost to reach all of this tech is two expensive compared to building a single factory and starport. You have to invest in structures more than double the gas to have your best 1:1:1 counters. That means you have to specialize in robo or archives. I have a few ideas on how to possibly make either one work and ideas like these should be attempted and exhausted before saying 1:1:1 is broken. Robo path Research Hallucination and only get one sentry. Get Immortal and Collossus or Collossus and Thermal Lance if the push timing feels slow. WHen the attak is coming engage in the middle if you have an Immortal or engage at your base if you went Thermal lance. In this fight you will have hallucinated collosus. The hopeful outcome with the midfield aggression is to kill off the tank with the Immortal or keep pulling back while the colluss does some spalsh to the marines. The outcome you want to force with the infront of base defense is to hold out long enough for thermal lance become a neutralizing factor to marines. In both engagements the fake robo unit is supposed to force an extra scan which reduces the power of replenshing your marine count with Mule. Archives Path. Research charge only. Get as many Templar and Stalkers as possible while getting an observer as well. Charge Zealots are a soft counter to Mariens and tanks. DOn't have them sit outside your base but positon them near your base so they can surround the 1:1:1 push when it reaches your base. You'll want the Templar in a positon to protect your zealots from Banshee harass if the Terran is experienced enough to inspect the surrounding area before moving in and to snipe the Raven/Banshee if hovering over the tank and marines. You'll live or die based on how well the surround goes off.
I don't get how hallucination will help, the build very often includes a raven... You're just gambling that he doesn't bring a raven? You have to get hallucination way before you can be sure he's not going to make a raven.
Also for the archive path, what if he does cloak variation? Plan is just to lose?
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On August 22 2011 11:58 Naughty wrote:
Sounds to me the bulk of the toss population is being meta gamed hard and instead of adapting there play they are crying for nerfs.
This 1/1/1 build seems to be designed to out tech the standard toss play and hit them before there normal timings take effect.
Sounds to me exactly what the zerg population always complained about, so how about take your own advice and try new things.. or more bluntly learn to play.
Ehhhh.. So what kind of kick you get out of posting this?
I hope you all can read this thread in details and not jump to conclusion. This thread is not about the 111 being imba, but how Terran can take advantage of protoss inability to scout. It is really dumb to suggest stayin on one base for Protoss is enough to hold this build, don't embarrass yourself if you don't know the reason behind it.
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WOW. No clue if that's the only/optimal version of the anti 1-1-1 build but that was pretty sweet. Anyone know who this korean is?
On August 22 2011 06:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Something like this was a possibility ever since so many protoss players began to rely on 15nexus and 1gate expand. I've never understood the economic necessity of expanding so soon. 1gate robo and 1gate star (for phoenix) builds can yield economically sound mid games without sacrificing early game information. I don't think there is such an economic necessity. I think protoss players saw that they could get away with really early expansions and so they did it. Now it's back to being a coinflip like it ought to be. Rushing to gather information remains the most reliable way to get to mid game on even ground or to win outright against opponents not intending to enter mid game. Of course, this requires perfect use of the information, so it is a more difficult way to play until all the necessary knowledge has been discovered, at which point it makes all the things it counters absolutely obsolete. I imagine 1-1-1 is one such thing.
I think Tyler called this one :D Thanks for still posting on the forums and keeping your twitter going, your fans are really grateful!
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On August 22 2011 12:07 mrsaturn wrote:
there is no imbalance here, you counter this build with SCOUTING, forcefields, a couple immortals, stalkers, and bunch of zealots, preferably with charge but not demanded.
you do not counter this with expanding. expanding is never the _counter_ to anything, especially tech units.
you do not counter this with 1 base collosus, normally there isnt enough time to get them and have any other army, unless its a really late 1-1-1, and youre still gonna need immortals.
you do not counter this with sticking on basic gateway mix and hoping for the best.
there will be no nerfs or buffs, but there will be a lot of protoss players losing until they crawl out of the box they play inside.
so when need an twightlight council and a robo facility.....with charge and immortals and sentries for forcefields......can you tell me where you get all this gas from?....let me guess....the silver league?
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On August 22 2011 11:58 Astro-Penguin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 11:52 CryingPoo wrote:On August 22 2011 11:44 Astro-Penguin wrote:
I dont know why i even bother to post in these threads, everyone just cries instead of looking on mistakes they make and how they can fix it. People dont seem to understand reactive play nor taking advantage of pre emptive timings, apparently to 85% of this thread there is no good unit composition avaliable to deal with 1-1-1 (These are probably the guys letting them siege in their nautral and then proceeding to attack down a small ramp then complaining)
1-1-1 is definently a strong build, maybe a bit to strong but far from unbeatable, speaking as a high masters Protoss I can say that this build really isent as bad as this thread is making it out to be. People seem to forget that all inning is always easier for the attacker in most cases, and honestly when you do 1 Base to defend this the terrans mistakes are suddenly alot more damaging to his game due to the fact that you are limiting his chance of success.
It seems people love to cling to flavor of the month imbalances just to satisfy their inflated egos and hop on the bandwagon base said imbalance of sloppy games by pro Protoss players. Masters Protoss in NA is only diamond level protoss in Korea. I am happy to arrange a Master level Korean Terran player while it is being streamed you and him can have multiple matches. If you are willing to call my efforts to translate, which would have of helped some people to gain insights of Korean ladder, an inflated ego - you are pretty disrespectful. If you really wish to do so im down for it, Im not disagreeing that Korea is a much higher skill level overall but it dosen't change the fact that whinning about a build being easier to execute accomplishes nothing, the only reason people think its easier to execute is because they are trying to play against the odds by doing risky expansions. I mean both Wolf and have Artosis have clearly stated that if you build a Nexus against this build you will lose unless you play perfectly and hope that the terran messes up.
Ok, seriously....did anyone that is posting in this thread even read the OP? The OP clearly and correctly states that the EARLIER THE EXPAND THE BETTER CHANCE OF HOLDING AGAINST THIS PUSH.
There is little to no way to hold this push by one basing if the terran executes properly. And if you 2 gate robo, or stargate open then you are so far behind on the expand that you cannot expand and hold the nexus. That is what Artosis is referring to.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On August 22 2011 11:58 Ksni wrote:
increase siege time to research, will fix like the stim nerf
Which will make some variations of baneling busts much more potent. You really have to think about ALL the matchups when nerfing something.
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I'd rather Blizzard/GSL get rid of all the bad maps that favor all-ins like the 1/1/1 and focus more on macro maps, that would at least alleviate some of the problems with the 1/1/1.
I play random and absolutely demolish toss with 1/1/1, the only way I hold it is with 1gate robo into expo when I see double gas from Terran. I would try experimenting more but I'm still just learning Terran/Toss.
This is against mid/high master's players. I would assume the 1/1/1 gets even stronger at the GM level as the execution gets better, but I can't be certain.
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EPT
