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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST |
On August 24 2011 03:37 jackalope1234 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2011 03:16 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 03:10 khaosis wrote:
It's an interesting concept, but as the metagame is always shifting, I'm sure there will be strats by next month which can accurately bust the 1/1/1. Of course, it's up to the protoss to have good scouting and awareness to prevent any other types of pushes. The 1/1/1, like any other build, is perfectly counterable. It just requires a hell of a good counter. Thanks for being so specific O_O I would think you know your own teamates build that counters the 1/1/1 rather handily.
I've seen him do it a bunch of times. I saw him beat rainbow with it on ladder so that was pretty convincing :D
I don't know if it's extremely reliable though.. and it's not like terrans already know how to deviate against this kind of style so it's hard to say if it is stable ATM. We talk strategy pretty much every day and this comes up a lot.
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On August 24 2011 03:18 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 03:02 latan wrote:
this reminds me of when some people (mainly idra and his fanboys) claimed that 14 hatch was the proper response to a 2rax build. And Ret and Machine. At that time, it was the best discovered way of dealing with the new problem that was 2 rax. Strategies come and go, and at that time hatch first was the best they knew. Stop being so fucking condescending.
it wasn't the best strategy hence why July/Nestea were going pool first. It was only the foreign zergs claiming so without much proof.
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On August 24 2011 03:40 Flonomenalz wrote:
so basically...
gosu FFs or die?
that seems like a good answer for a race centered around FFs lol.
Well, if only you knew the difference between MC/HuK forcefields and the rest of tip-top pros...
it's
enormous.
gstl spoiler from a long time ago...
+ Show Spoiler +edit: see game 7 gstl liquid vs prime. the ffs against the initial 3 rax rival mc vs july on shakuras for best FFs I've ever seen by a HUGE margin. It's not like amazing ffs are a little bit more impressive than really good ones. amazing ffs like these are 100x more impressive and game changing than really good ones.
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I'm not sure it's possible if the Terran has gosu micro too though :< Not on open nats like Xel'naga.
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On August 24 2011 03:40 Flonomenalz wrote:
so basically...
gosu FFs or die?
that seems like a good answer for a race centered around FFs lol.
Well in reality, that's how protoss is anyways. Good FF's allow protoss to do amazing things and win engagements they normally shouldn't. On the other hand, poor FF's can make protoss simply lose the game, that's where the "skill" in protoss is. Atleast that's part of it.
If you look at lower league protoss players, you will witness some of the worst FF's known to man. And as you go up in rank the forcefields improve.
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I like to go 1 gate robo vs terran right now, and if I see 1/1/1 coming with my obs, then I get a warp prism right away. Then I just go 1 base colossus. As soon as the push leave their base, I drop four zealots in their mineral line. Then I just delay until I have three colosuss with force field, and defend the push.
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On August 24 2011 03:41 DertoQq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 03:38 IVN wrote:On August 24 2011 02:58 jackalope1234 wrote:
you guys realize someone made a build to counter this right? I've won everygame vs 1/1/1 now and its not all in and most times they dont even get the chance to move out. I basically have higher level tech more econ and can still kill him. Really? Sounds interesting. Maybe you should give MC some lessons. Instead of just saying that, could you actually give us the build/link ?
I was being sarcastic. ;-)
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speaking of forcefields, how about locking the terran inside his base?
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On August 24 2011 03:53 latan wrote:
speaking of forcefields, how about locking the terran inside his base?
Siege tank range > FF range. You will lose sentries.
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The existence of this thread is in and of itself absurd. If say, a month from now or so something hasn't materialized in the form of a counter, by all means discuss, but right now this is just ridiculous.
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On August 24 2011 03:53 latan wrote:
speaking of forcefields, how about locking the terran inside his base?
Tanks / Cloaked Banshees etc.
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On August 24 2011 03:55 captainwaffles wrote:
The existence of this thread is in and of itself absurd. If say, a month from now or so something hasn't materialized in the form of a counter, by all means discuss, but right now this is just ridiculous.
And if people would make this thread again after a month, people like you will make a post exactly like this one. Please stop with these elitist "imbalance doesn't exist it is all metagame" posts, they're not constructive and don't contribute to the thread at all.
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I defeated this build with going 1gate FE and then robo -> collosus. If the banshee harass doesn't do any damage, you should be able to defeat it with this. But when you go 3gate expand, it's basically not possible
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thinking about this now, if you scout after a 9 pylon and throw down a standard 12 gate... if you see no gas then you know it CAN'T be a 1-1-1 so you proceed to either hold off a 1 raxx fe, or a marine scv all in depending on if u scout an expo or not... next, if you SCOUT a gas why can't you just cancel your gate and lay down a 16 nex? then proceed with gates after... is it because it could be a marine maurader poke 2 raxx? i'm not really understanding why this can't be done it seems if you cancelled the gate and layed down the 16 nex then built gates after you could hold this push. and it could set you up to defend the 1-1-1.. but meh maybe i'm wrong iono just a thought
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On August 24 2011 03:59 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 03:55 captainwaffles wrote:
The existence of this thread is in and of itself absurd. If say, a month from now or so something hasn't materialized in the form of a counter, by all means discuss, but right now this is just ridiculous. And if people would make this thread again after a month, people like you will make a post exactly like this one. Please stop with these elitist "imbalance doesn't exist it is all metagame" posts, they're not constructive and don't contribute to the thread at all.
You're right, my bad, this thread has been extremely helpful in terms of finding a solution/counter.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:02 captainwaffles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 03:59 H0i wrote:On August 24 2011 03:55 captainwaffles wrote:
The existence of this thread is in and of itself absurd. If say, a month from now or so something hasn't materialized in the form of a counter, by all means discuss, but right now this is just ridiculous. And if people would make this thread again after a month, people like you will make a post exactly like this one. Please stop with these elitist "imbalance doesn't exist it is all metagame" posts, they're not constructive and don't contribute to the thread at all. You're right, my bad, this thread has been extremely helpful in terms of finding a solution/counter.
Sarcasm aside, I think that having a constructive debate where people bounce ideas off of eachother is entirely legitimate. Although there has been some negativity in this thread, I think it's been good to explore the community consensus surrounding 1-1-1 TvP.
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EDIT: Herp derp. I can't read.
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On August 24 2011 03:23 Whalecore wrote:
The way I see it atm:
Protoss is too greedy (1 gate expo or 15 nexus): Kill him with bio
Protoss is not greedy enough (3 gate expo or robo expo): Kill him with 1-1-1
You can defend against 2 rax even 6 rax all in (marine scv) depending on map/distance... Huk has defended 3 rax off 1 gate fe into 2 more gates but I think that's just him.
But yeah that's the general problem + the third/fourth option of doing 4 gate warp prism and voidray all in.
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On August 24 2011 04:08 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 04:00 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
thinking about this now, if you scout after a 9 pylon and throw down a standard 12 gate... if you see no gas then you know it CAN'T be a 1-1-1 so you proceed to either hold off a 1 raxx fe, or a marine scv all in depending on if u scout an expo or not... next, if you SCOUT a gas why can't you just cancel your gate and lay down a 16 nex? then proceed with gates after... is it because it could be a marine maurader poke 2 raxx? i'm not really understanding why this can't be done it seems if you cancelled the gate and layed down the 16 nex then built gates after you could hold this push. and it could set you up to defend the 1-1-1.. but meh maybe i'm wrong iono just a thought While I think Protoss players need to do some brain storming, that is just false. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253098
what exactly is false, my statement? just wondering, it seems pretty legit, maybe explain why this wont work
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On August 24 2011 04:10 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 04:08 iCanada wrote:On August 24 2011 04:00 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
thinking about this now, if you scout after a 9 pylon and throw down a standard 12 gate... if you see no gas then you know it CAN'T be a 1-1-1 so you proceed to either hold off a 1 raxx fe, or a marine scv all in depending on if u scout an expo or not... next, if you SCOUT a gas why can't you just cancel your gate and lay down a 16 nex? then proceed with gates after... is it because it could be a marine maurader poke 2 raxx? i'm not really understanding why this can't be done it seems if you cancelled the gate and layed down the 16 nex then built gates after you could hold this push. and it could set you up to defend the 1-1-1.. but meh maybe i'm wrong iono just a thought While I think Protoss players need to do some brain storming, that is just false. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253098 what exactly is false, my statement? just wondering, it seems pretty legit, maybe explain why this wont work
Sorry, I read wrong.
X.X
I thought you said if they didn't gas before rax. I pulled an all nighter, sorry.
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EPT
