Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 109

On August 24 2011 04:10 iCanada wrote:


Sorry, I read wrong.

X.X

I thought you said if they didn't gas before rax. I pulled an all nighter, sorry.

On August 24 2011 03:42 sekritzzz wrote:

it wasn't the best strategy hence why July/Nestea were going pool first. It was only the foreign zergs claiming so without much proof.

On August 24 2011 04:00 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
thinking about this now, if you scout after a 9 pylon and throw down a standard 12 gate... if you see no gas then you know it CAN'T be a 1-1-1 so you proceed to either hold off a 1 raxx fe, or a marine scv all in depending on if u scout an expo or not... next, if you SCOUT a gas why can't you just cancel your gate and lay down a 16 nex? then proceed with gates after... is it because it could be a marine maurader poke 2 raxx? i'm not really understanding why this can't be done it seems if you cancelled the gate and layed down the 16 nex then built gates after you could hold this push. and it could set you up to defend the 1-1-1.. but meh maybe i'm wrong iono just a thought

On August 24 2011 04:00 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:
thinking about this now, if you scout after a 9 pylon and throw down a standard 12 gate... if you see no gas then you know it CAN'T be a 1-1-1 so you proceed to either hold off a 1 raxx fe, or a marine scv all in depending on if u scout an expo or not... next, if you SCOUT a gas why can't you just cancel your gate and lay down a 16 nex? then proceed with gates after... is it because it could be a marine maurader poke 2 raxx? i'm not really understanding why this can't be done it seems if you cancelled the gate and layed down the 16 nex then built gates after you could hold this push. and it could set you up to defend the 1-1-1.. but meh maybe i'm wrong iono just a thought

On August 24 2011 02:48 Vlare wrote:


I don't understand why a handful of people who are nowhere near close to the top of the skill curve are having 100+ page arguments about 1/1/1 being fair or not.

You guys aren't even examining certain games or anything. 1/1/1 is an opener, how the terran choses to play out his 1/1/1 in terms on which units he makes changes how protoss should respond.

Let me give you an example, for people going "YEAH ZEALOTS EAT MARINES"

What if he opts for a blueflame 1/1/1. Your zealots aren't looking so hot anymore are they.

I've played people who delay their 111 a bit and include ghosts stim and marauder.

Without looking at certain games, and only one variation of 1/1/1 the claims/idea's people are making are rather vague.

While I do think 1/1/1 is strong, it's certainly managable if you scout it and respond accordingly. Often protoss players make too many probes after expanding. T will be on 24~ and protoss will be nearing 40. WHY do you need that kind of lead when he's obviously all inning you. Just relax, cut some probes, hold and then mass probes.

The real issue, in my opinion is protoss not responding properly. And while I do think the push is quite strong, and I do lose to it when it catches me off guard ( Thor 1/1/1 fml ) I do think it is manageable.

Incase anyone cares or is going to use the QQ you suck arguement. I guess I am a mid-high masters protoss, Not that it matters.

What we should do in this thread is grab lets say, 5~ replays and analyze those. Then go over what could have P done. A big part of a tank push is engaging before siege. Good angles, good FF"s. These are things we can always work on as protoss players.

On August 24 2011 04:20 Yaotzin wrote:
Didn't Nestea go pool first against sC?

On August 24 2011 04:23 DusTerr wrote:
seriously tho, unless blizzard can be shown what specifically about "1-1-1" needs reworking we will get a band-aid patch that doesn't do anything but create further problems.

On August 24 2011 04:20 Aletheia27 wrote:


this might work..but I think it'd be easier and potentially better to just transition into a 1 Gate FE if you see the gas. Otherwise just delay the expo for more gates >_>

This doesn't really solve the problem tough as 2 rax vs 1-1-1 dilema. As you still can't tell after they take their gas...

It used to be that you could sacrifice a probe to count the number of marines or see if there's a bunker to try and determine if terran's going for a 1-1-1 or bio...but a good terran player will just keep most of their army back making it difficult to scout...

On August 22 2011 06:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Something like this was a possibility ever since so many protoss players began to rely on 15nexus and 1gate expand. I've never understood the economic necessity of expanding so soon. 1gate robo and 1gate star (for phoenix) builds can yield economically sound mid games without sacrificing early game information. I don't think there is such an economic necessity. I think protoss players saw that they could get away with really early expansions and so they did it. Now it's back to being a coinflip like it ought to be. Rushing to gather information remains the most reliable way to get to mid game on even ground or to win outright against opponents not intending to enter mid game. Of course, this requires perfect use of the information, so it is a more difficult way to play until all the necessary knowledge has been discovered, at which point it makes all the things it counters absolutely obsolete. I imagine 1-1-1 is one such thing.

On August 24 2011 02:38 Alejandrisha wrote:


If you don't make a robotics you don't know if it's a siege expand or a bfh drop or a rfh drop. You don't know if its tech lab reactor 2/1/1 into mass marine + medivac or stim + ghost. You don't know if it's a 1/1/1 with a raven or banshees or with cloak or without cloak. You don't know anything, to be honest :/

Also, what is this 9+m? A 1/1/1 3 tank push can leave as early as 8:15, or at late as 8:45 if they opted for a raven instead of the banshee. What is the significance of a 9 minute observer? If you're getting it to scout the 1/1/1, it's too late because it's already halfway across the map or sieged outside of your natural

On August 24 2011 04:28 Yaotzin wrote:

As MC said, Protoss needs earlier AoE. That's not going to happen in a patch though, it'll have to wait to HotS.

On August 24 2011 04:29 Blazinghand wrote:


This might sound kinda dumb, but maybe a gas steal is the right move here? The Terran player will have to kill it to get access to a 2nd gas. Does this delay the push at all? I wonder if it's worth the 75 minerals in the early game to delay his gas by a 30 seconds or so. Has anyone used this / fought against this?

On August 24 2011 04:33 n0btozz wrote:


Plus, although it seems that TL is very much against any comments on balance. Look at code S Ro16. MC is out due to getting cheesed by a terran,
So what´s the race distribution? 4 protosses - 3 zergs - 9 terrans. Don´t really need to say anything about it.

Code A Ro16: 2 protosses, 7 zergs and 7 terrans

Terrans also seem to be dominating in numbers on the highest tier...I wonder if that is only because the people who play terran are so much better then all the people who play zerg and protoss...Maybe, just maybe, race has something to do with it? And please, don´t ban me just for stating facts above...