Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 812

On December 07 2013 10:53 Green_25 wrote:

Just like you have to accept that balance changes won't be made around some scrubs' inability to split or use ghosts

On December 07 2013 10:59 Green_25 wrote:

Nah, I was just pointing out it was funny. It wasn't a statement about respective balance

On December 07 2013 11:07 vthree wrote:


Really? Seems widow mine was nerfed because of scrub Zergs inability to split and use overseers. EMPs were nerfed because Protoss couldn't split or control their HTs.

On December 07 2013 21:12 Ghanburighan wrote:
Remember that I wrote that Asus Rog NorthCon would be unrepresentative because it's a clearly T favoured tournament with Inno, MMA and Jjakji (and the best foreign T, lol).

Well, scratch that. MMA and Jjakji go out to foreigners. Inno loses to Life but still makes it to the Ro8. Lucifron once again didn't pick up a map. I'm getting late 2012 shudders.

Although, the stats are a bit silly to do. The win percentages show foreigners zergs and Protosses slightly ahead against mostly Korean terrans. There just aren't enough foreign T left to show much. Lucifron and Wulfen were at Asus and contributed 6 map losses to the statistics.

Another silly thing is that Inno might still win the tournament because it's bloody Innovation, imo the best player in the world (at worst, 3rd Terran in the world) and people will turn around and say that the game is fine, despite the overall picture.

On December 07 2013 21:12 Ghanburighan wrote:
Remember that I wrote that Asus Rog NorthCon would be unrepresentative because it's a clearly T favoured tournament with Inno, MMA and Jjakji (and the best foreign T, lol).

Well, scratch that. MMA and Jjakji go out to foreigners. Inno loses to Life but still makes it to the Ro8. Lucifron once again didn't pick up a map. I'm getting late 2012 shudders.

Although, the stats are a bit silly to do. The win percentages show foreigners zergs and Protosses slightly ahead against mostly Korean terrans. There just aren't enough foreign T left to show much. Lucifron and Wulfen were at Asus and contributed 6 map losses to the statistics.

Another silly thing is that Inno might still win the tournament because it's bloody Innovation, imo the best player in the world (at worst, 3rd Terran in the world) and people will turn around and say that the game is fine, despite the overall picture.

On December 07 2013 06:36 Sabu113 wrote:
Really the fundamental problem with Protoss are the collusus and storm. Too many games are decided by those A move units. Maybe we should decrease the radius of storm so protoss have to micro for a change and place their storms. And the collusus is such a terrible newb unit. Everyone knows games are better with templar.

Plus look at all the buffs toss always gets. They need to fix Medivac boost. It should be even faster because too often we see protoss position their troops to easily respond to any drop. It just looks too easy. With a faster boost terrans will actually be able to do damage with their super expensive drops.

Lastly, Terran needs turrets. Why not have those flame turrets from the campaign be incorporated. Then protoss players can't drop zealots in naked terran bases. The terran MMMM ball is already less cost effective than toss gateway units so we can't split them apart to defend bases. Automated defense would atleast let us buy time. I mean we can't put down turrets because they're so expensive. Warp prisms can just boost past them.

Anyway, I tried not to be hyperbolic so we can have a reasoned discussion. Gom PvP is going to kill StarCraft. Random protoss are winning the WCS KR and season finals and stack tournements like the grand finals.

~
A lot of this nerf talk would sound more reasonable if there was talk about compensatory nerfs/buffs for changes. The core is obviously bad but it's a bandaid over problems which if no one discusses then they are just trying to protect their ladder points or worse push for Gom TvT.

On December 08 2013 00:12 NovemberstOrm wrote:

Random protoss? Lol.

On December 07 2013 23:41 SC2Toastie wrote:
Timewarp Complaint (cause: NorthCon (Spoiler): + Show Spoiler +)
We see 3 timewarps in a row, in combination with Forcefield, completely deny any advances from Zerg+ Show Spoiler +. I've seen more situations in which I thought the mechanic of Time Warp was silly, but this one really clearly shows it.

Time Warp (and Forcefield) create a situation in which the opponent loses the ability to micro and Protoss essentially get's to determine the positioning of the armies. I hate forcefield as a spell, but at least forcefield doesn't completely screw armies over against Zealots and at least forcefield allows the other race to counter by abusing the field.

Time Warp however only works again the opponent (no friendly slow down) making it so essentially everything getting caught essentially gets shred by Zealots, Time Warp denies all micro and is usable pretty much trice per battle with a HUGE radius.

There is no real reason I can think of the MSC needs Time Warp (or Time Warp needs to be in the game for that matter) especially in this situation. Time Warp only ever get's used as a get out of jail free card when the MSC overextends, or to favor Protoss in any lategame engagement. I propose TW get's a reduced radius and affects friendly units, assuming completely removing it is impossible.

I understand there's some hyperbole in this post, I find it hard to find the right words to explain my 'problem' with the spell...

Cya!

On December 08 2013 00:32 fishinguy wrote:
Id call for a nerf on the queen. The whole problem started way back in WoL with the queen buff patch. At that point BL infestor was still god, but Terran had the ability to win quickly or at least delay the Zerg late game transition and hope to win a drawn out mid game.

The widdowmine initially covered the problem up. It was strong enough to put enough pressure on the zerg mid game but now... Currently Zerg economy is too safe. Queen does everything, decent early DPS, creep larvae, heal. People starting 4-6 queens and 4 lings with little risk is what makes the whole match up so screwed.

Either queen range needs to be reverted or transfuse / creep needs a nerf.

On December 08 2013 00:43 RaFox17 wrote:

If you nerd the range then i would invite you to tell how zerg is going to deal with void rays? Before you get to hydras (not that great) only thing you have is queens.

On December 08 2013 03:05 fishinguy wrote:
Is it? last time I checked Reapers dont 3 shot drones anymore.

If not range then transfuse / creep. Zerg is too safe early, and that is because of the queen being too good at what it does.

On December 08 2013 03:29 Bagi wrote:

Reapers got increased range to 5 range in HOTS, nothing zerg has could touch 2rax reaper in the early game.

It would pretty much force zergs to quick gas and maybe even roach warren to avoid dying to reaper, extremely imbalanced.

On December 08 2013 00:14 Karpfen wrote:


You are good at spotting sarcasm. (you won't get this)