• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:15
CEST 01:15
KST 08:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League53Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP SCHNAIL now supports Remastered
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chess Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8701 users

Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 808

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 806 807 808 809 810 1266 Next
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 20:06:05
December 05 2013 20:01 GMT
#16141
In lategame, you have a valid point, as mass warp-ins and being able to invest in cannons/leaving things behind for defense is fine. Early->Mid game, not really. Medivac boosters plus the speed terran can attack makes photon overcharge invaluable for drop defense. It would be pretty simple to tear a protoss apart, especially in the stage where they're trying to take a third.

I'm not saying it would be impossible to hold any game, but I don't think it would be a stretch to say boosters at that point in the hands of a KR terran bent on multi pronged harrass would be too powerful without photon overcharge to help. The sheer speed and rate at which you can drop, the fact that a good player will always get out with all his units with boosters, and the fact Protoss units are very bad in small/equal supply skirmishes against terran all point in that direction.
SooYoung-Noona!
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
December 05 2013 20:05 GMT
#16142
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.


I didn't read the second part of your post but I just had a vivid nightmare of a MSC/stalker/stalker push with a slow photon overcharge edging closer and closer to my base.
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
December 05 2013 20:17 GMT
#16143
On December 06 2013 05:05 Chaggi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.


I didn't read the second part of your post but I just had a vivid nightmare of a MSC/stalker/stalker push with a slow photon overcharge edging closer and closer to my base.


"Attaching itself to the nexus", it couldnt float to your base.

If they would change PO to 125 energy ( that way you cant do 2 POs at the same time) that would already help a lot i think.
Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
December 05 2013 20:30 GMT
#16144
On December 06 2013 05:01 ffadicted wrote:
In lategame, you have a valid point, as mass warp-ins and being able to invest in cannons/leaving things behind for defense is fine. Early->Mid game, not really. Medivac boosters plus the speed terran can attack makes photon overcharge invaluable for drop defense. It would be pretty simple to tear a protoss apart, especially in the stage where they're trying to take a third.

I'm not saying it would be impossible to hold any game, but I don't think it would be a stretch to say boosters at that point in the hands of a KR terran bent on multi pronged harrass would be too powerful without photon overcharge to help. The sheer speed and rate at which you can drop, the fact that a good player will always get out with all his units with boosters, and the fact Protoss units are very bad in small/equal supply skirmishes against terran all point in that direction.



This is my fear also. However, I do not see any reason why they could not nerf mothership cores offensive abilities.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 20:39:35
December 05 2013 20:39 GMT
#16145
On December 06 2013 05:17 BlackCompany wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 05:05 Chaggi wrote:
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.


I didn't read the second part of your post but I just had a vivid nightmare of a MSC/stalker/stalker push with a slow photon overcharge edging closer and closer to my base.


"Attaching itself to the nexus", it couldnt float to your base.

If they would change PO to 125 energy ( that way you cant do 2 POs at the same time) that would already help a lot i think.


Gives another reason to try for a proxy Nexus/gateway all-in.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Iron_
Profile Joined April 2010
United States389 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 20:41:57
December 05 2013 20:40 GMT
#16146
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.


This is the best of the ideas I've heard so far. Seeing that the fact that protoss has no risk is because it needs no units, in this case it would still need at least a few units. As long as the MSC was still selectable (and you could kill it to stop photon overcharge), I think this might actually be effective.

Bottom line, Terran MUST be able to counter after some of these cheese/all-in/pressure builds, ESPECIALLY when they don't do any damage.

EDIT: As a throw in for the protoss, maybe they can make it instant, and be able to use on any nexus on the map, so you can actually attach to your third if you are sitting in your main, ETC.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
December 05 2013 20:48 GMT
#16147
I seriously think that PO is the dumbest thing in the game. Its range is just unreal and totally unneccesary. It not only protects the nexus but basically the entire base....
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
December 05 2013 20:49 GMT
#16148
On December 06 2013 05:48 stratmatt wrote:
I seriously think that PO is the dumbest thing in the game. Its range is just unreal and totally unneccesary. It not only protects the nexus but basically the entire base....


It's definitely not the dumbest thing in the game lol
SooYoung-Noona!
BlackCompany
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany8388 Posts
December 05 2013 20:50 GMT
#16149
On December 06 2013 05:39 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 05:17 BlackCompany wrote:
On December 06 2013 05:05 Chaggi wrote:
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.


I didn't read the second part of your post but I just had a vivid nightmare of a MSC/stalker/stalker push with a slow photon overcharge edging closer and closer to my base.


"Attaching itself to the nexus", it couldnt float to your base.

If they would change PO to 125 energy ( that way you cant do 2 POs at the same time) that would already help a lot i think.


Gives another reason to try for a proxy Nexus/gateway all-in.


Well i wouldnt mind dieing to a proxy Nexus, i'd probably laugh more than the person who made it work
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
December 05 2013 20:52 GMT
#16150
Photon Overcharge has essentially ruined all options for T rush vs P...
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
December 05 2013 20:54 GMT
#16151
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.

Making it pretty worthless as you'll be super vulnerable to marines/mutalisk/hydralisk/phoenix/voidray/etc
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
December 05 2013 21:02 GMT
#16152
On December 06 2013 05:54 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 04:56 Daswollvieh wrote:
What if the Photon Overcharge would not be cast on the nexus, but on the MSC itself, attaching itself to the Nexus for the duration. That way it could be sniped if not defended properly.

Making it pretty worthless as you'll be super vulnerable to marines/mutalisk/hydralisk/phoenix/voidray/etc

Ya, the strength of the nexus cannon comes 100% from how much you have to commit to target fire it away from the battle lol
SooYoung-Noona!
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
December 05 2013 21:18 GMT
#16153
Bring back the beta mothership core where it was very slow, but give it a health boost to make up for it, so it can be used effectively to defend the base but it is too slow to go on the offence. That removes the whole issue we are seeing of people going blink and using it to gain vision and would make it so Protoss needs observers again if they want to go that route, which slows down the all-in enough that it would give Terran a chance to prepare.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 21:26:13
December 05 2013 21:23 GMT
#16154
On December 06 2013 06:18 Ben... wrote:
Bring back the beta mothership core where it was very slow, but give it a health boost to make up for it, so it can be used effectively to defend the base but it is too slow to go on the offence. That removes the whole issue we are seeing of people going blink and using it to gain vision and would make it so Protoss needs observers again if they want to go that route, which slows down the all-in enough that it would give Terran a chance to prepare.


It would likely kill the blink all-in against any terran who has any clue how to do anything tbh
Mothership as an offensive unit is pretty fine imo, its the defensive capabilities that are a little much right now
SooYoung-Noona!
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 22:43:27
December 05 2013 22:42 GMT
#16155
The addition of the MSC is the best addition to Protoss in HOTS. It allows for offensive and flexible early game play from Protoss. SC2 as a game is the better for the MSC in its current incarnation. There may be an issue with the Nexus Cannon being too long at 60 seconds (effectively 2 warp-ins with CB). But, if that really is a problem, it can be tweaked.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
December 05 2013 22:54 GMT
#16156
reduce the range of the nexus cannon a bit so tanks can outrange it, also shorten its duration a bit. Problem solved.
Amove for Aiur
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
December 06 2013 02:13 GMT
#16157
Nathanias is kinda mad against protoss right now. heh/
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
December 06 2013 02:28 GMT
#16158
Everything about protoss is frustrating to play against. Unless I have like 5 turrets a warp prism is going to get into my base and warp in (so skill) like 16 zealots with a risk of like 200 minerals. What a joke.

I think that above all frustrates me about tvp in its current form. The risk to reward ratio for protoss is ludicrous, and in my opinion worse then broodlord infestor was. The fact that proxy f-18 hornet oracle is a legit strat is ridiculous enough, the fact that it can transition with almost no real loss is just...

It just seems so ludicrous that there is such a disparity in difficulty for the match up, and then the easier race is stronger in basically all phases of the game as well is enraging.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-06 02:40:42
December 06 2013 02:39 GMT
#16159
On December 06 2013 11:28 bo1b wrote:
Everything about protoss is frustrating to play against. Unless I have like 5 turrets a warp prism is going to get into my base and warp in (so skill) like 16 zealots with a risk of like 200 minerals. What a joke.

I think that above all frustrates me about tvp in its current form. The risk to reward ratio for protoss is ludicrous, and in my opinion worse then broodlord infestor was. The fact that proxy f-18 hornet oracle is a legit strat is ridiculous enough, the fact that it can transition with almost no real loss is just...

It just seems so ludicrous that there is such a disparity in difficulty for the match up, and then the easier race is stronger in basically all phases of the game as well is enraging.

Sorry but a terran complaining about drops/warp prism is honestly quite ironic since they have been doing it forever and they got the perfect composition for it with a dropship that straight up heals.
How about following the arguments terrans made when zerg was complaining about drops.
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-06 02:45:53
December 06 2013 02:45 GMT
#16160
On December 06 2013 11:39 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2013 11:28 bo1b wrote:
Everything about protoss is frustrating to play against. Unless I have like 5 turrets a warp prism is going to get into my base and warp in (so skill) like 16 zealots with a risk of like 200 minerals. What a joke.

I think that above all frustrates me about tvp in its current form. The risk to reward ratio for protoss is ludicrous, and in my opinion worse then broodlord infestor was. The fact that proxy f-18 hornet oracle is a legit strat is ridiculous enough, the fact that it can transition with almost no real loss is just...

It just seems so ludicrous that there is such a disparity in difficulty for the match up, and then the easier race is stronger in basically all phases of the game as well is enraging.

Sorry but a terran complaining about drops/warp prism is honestly quite ironic since they have been doing it forever and they got the perfect composition for it with a dropship that straight up heals.
How about following the arguments terrans made when zerg was complaining about drops.


I forgot I could spawn 28 marines from a single medivac. Ho, and I have static defenses that cost 0 supply.
Prev 1 806 807 808 809 810 1266 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 139
ViBE95
Nathanias 77
StarCraft: Brood War
Liquid`Hasu 892
Artosis 653
ProTech155
Dota 2
syndereN570
NeuroSwarm163
PGG 129
League of Legends
Doublelift5563
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1271
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox590
Other Games
summit1g4784
shahzam493
C9.Mang0174
JimRising 116
Maynarde57
Trikslyr37
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick299
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta18
• EnkiAlexander 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie839
• Scarra667
• Shiphtur649
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
11h 45m
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
OSC
23h 45m
FEL
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
FEL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.