EPT1. Pool energy for PO, to be safer.
2. Use it for Eco/casters to macro and tech harder, but not have enough energy for PO so you can be punished.
As it currently stands, the decision is (in PvT)
1. Have an MsC, be pretty damn safe.
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 806
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25458 Posts
1. Pool energy for PO, to be safer. 2. Use it for Eco/casters to macro and tech harder, but not have enough energy for PO so you can be punished. As it currently stands, the decision is (in PvT) 1. Have an MsC, be pretty damn safe. | ||
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sil0r
Germany43 Posts
I'm thinking of nerfing the PO range/dmg in some way and give it something like a shield decay aura, which will deal around 5 dmg/sec to enemy's shield who are in a certain radius. Your thoughts? Edit: Spelling | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 04 2013 18:35 DinoToss wrote: The problem of MSC lies in the design. It's not a decision to get it because the advantage of having it far outweighs not having it. It's another Warp Gate research which is a thing you will get no matter what. And what are the advantages? Being almost completely safe against all ins in certain period of time. You cannot outmicro or outwit PO, it is there and it is granted. Granted mechanics is what what makes SC2 dull on strategical level. And it is such an unelegant way of desinging a simple make-up to cover the holes from Blizzard. I hope that when LotV launches Blizzard will revaluate their earlier decisions that were simply a band-aids at the time and cancel some of them to bring the strategical level where it was. A risk/reward system was always a big part of Starcraft. Contrary to belief Starcraft 2 of now seems way less strategical than it was in 2011. The amount of known information is so big and the amount of unknown was cut so low that it is no wonder people are calling for mech again like they were in past. It is getting somewhat stale. Well, all design should be a yin/yang give/take model. MSC's energy being tugged between econ OR defense. Siege Tank being designed as being either mobile OR powerful. Marine having the choice of -10 hp or -0 hp, etc.... Unit design is boring when it doesn't have the yin/yang dynamic. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25458 Posts
They didn't just add utility, but conscious decision making which I liked. Kind of how I disliked the Queen range increase for the same rationale. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:28 Chaggi wrote: I just played a game of back and forth TvP, action from 10 minutes -> 24 minutes. It was so glorious not having to face deathballs and so fun. I wonder what changes would need to be made to make TvP like that. Step 1: change Econ to require 5-6 bases Step 2: give them overwhelmingly strong turtling ability Step 3: make them only be able to turtle and defend 3-4 bases Step 4: enjoy the chaos | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25458 Posts
 I don't think the game should ever require 5-6 bases of income, but you should be able to get SOME advantage from doing so. All races bar Zerg really only ever need more than 4 bases when their main is starting to dry out etc. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:12 Wombat_NI wrote: I'm assuming you meant TvZ or TvT Chaggi? I don't think the game should ever require 5-6 bases of income, but you should be able to get SOME advantage from doing so. All races bar Zerg really only ever need more than 4 bases when their main is starting to dry out etc. It was a protoss that didn't open some type of aggression! and he went into storm! I just put on a ton of pressure so that he never was able to get comfortable. But it was super back and forth and we both made a lot of mistakes that kept it pretty even. Most fun I've had playing TvP in... ever! | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On December 05 2013 04:34 Thieving Magpie wrote: Step 1: change Econ to require 5-6 bases IMO this is step 1 in fixing a lot with sc2 | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25458 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:24 ffadicted wrote: IMO this is step 1 in fixing a lot with sc2 It ends up being the same thing as we have now, but more action packed/entertaining. Require 6 bases, only be able to protect 3 of them, everyone has a "3base econ" like they do now, but only if they work hard for it. | ||
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hipo
France482 Posts
On December 04 2013 21:49 Wombat_NI wrote: I liked some of the earlier ideas of the MsC, numbers aside, when it could boost chrono and augment macro. 1. Pool energy for PO, to be safer. 2. Use it for Eco/casters to macro and tech harder, but not have enough energy for PO so you can be punished. As it currently stands, the decision is (in PvT) 1. Have an MsC, be pretty damn safe. Yea, the choice between using CB and keeping energy for PO was a nice concept but I do like the offensive ability of the MsC since its allow Protoss to be more active on the map in the early and mid game. It might be interesting to make Nexus slowly loose energy when Photon Overcharge is activated (PO would stop when the energy pool is depleted). This way, MsC would keep its offensive abilities but Protoss would have to manage their energy carefully to be safe against aggression. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 05 2013 06:15 Faust852 wrote: i'm so pissed right now. TvP early game is utterely shit for real. And you can't even do fun cheeses like you could in WoL when you got tired of playing standard. It's terrible. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 05 2013 09:09 forsooth wrote: And you can't even do fun cheeses like you could in WoL when you got tired of playing standard. It's terrible. Tried 11/11, I regret it almost immediatly. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25458 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 05 2013 09:35 Wombat_NI wrote: Which is more frustrating for you Terrans, TvP currently or TvZ in late WoL? For me, definitly TvP. In Late WoL, you could play some timing mecha pre-hive ala Mvp, or some cheeses/allins pretty stong like 11/11, marines marauders hellions and etc. Now I feel so powerless I want to stop playing. I have currently 29% over 40 TvP this season. It becomes worse and worse while it was my favorite MU in WoL. | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 05 2013 09:35 Wombat_NI wrote: Which is more frustrating for you Terrans, TvP currently or TvZ in late WoL? TvP has always been more frustrating to me by far. I don't like playing bio in the first place, and HotS has taken away all the fun tank-based all-ins I used to do in WoL while at the same time making it really hard for me to get a read on what the Protoss is doing. The oracle buff has been a goddamn nightmare too, get caught out of position even for a moment and you just lose the game. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On December 05 2013 05:19 Chaggi wrote: You'd love playing against me. I play Protoss that style for that exact reason. Every game is close and every game is fun, even though I lose way more than I would if I did proxy oracle or blink.It was a protoss that didn't open some type of aggression! and he went into storm! I just put on a ton of pressure so that he never was able to get comfortable. But it was super back and forth and we both made a lot of mistakes that kept it pretty even. Most fun I've had playing TvP in... ever! You don't learn anything doing blink all-ins or proxy oracle and once people figure out how to hold those builds the people who use them as crutch will tank in rank. It's just like those zergs that went infestor/brood lord every game and got to master that way rather than learning the game properly. Suddenly HOTS comes out and they're not doing so great. | ||
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