EPTTime Warp now affects friendly units as well.
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 805
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Time Warp now affects friendly units as well. | ||
|
-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:05 Pirfiktshon wrote: He's really not I mean if you had to fight the MSC like we do you'd understand these nerfs are actually pretty warranted..... >Implying that nobody ever builds a MSC in PvP. Are you for real? | ||
|
Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
How about something small and simple? Time Warp now affects friendly units as well. That would help in some situations but rarely most it would be a start to say the least though. >Implying that nobody ever builds a MSC in PvP. Are you for real? "like we do" You can make an MSC as well which makes a tool you can utilize just like your opponent in both respects of TW and PO whats so hard to understand of "Like we do" when we don't have a unit that blocks all ins counters drops slows down 50% movement when micro is so critical its the difference between life or death....... The fact is PvP you BOTH DO ....GG | ||
|
plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:15 Pirfiktshon wrote: That would help in some situations but rarely most it would be a start to say the least though. "like we do" You can make an MSC as well which makes a tool you can utilize just like your opponent in both respects of TW and PO whats so hard to understand of "Like we do" when we don't have a unit that blocks all ins counters drops slows down 50% movement when micro is so critical its the difference between life or death....... The fact is PvP you BOTH DO ....GG But those are some severe nerfs to MsC. I'm always for incremental changes. | ||
|
Hider
Denmark9420 Posts
On December 03 2013 02:14 Salient wrote: You can QQ all you want. But the fact remains that the game has never been more balanced at the pro level. Quite the contrary. Looking at these stats - I would argue that we need to back to 2010 for a comparable situation (where zerg was as much UP as terran is today). Interpreting the statistics, its really hard to get to another conclusion. First of all, that report represents a short time period so you can't draw conclusions from it. Second, it shows all matchups within a rounded +5/-5, which is Blizzard's target and probably corresponds to the margin of error. This is the problem - Your not interpreting the statistics correctly. Blizzards stats will always towards 50-50. Just like Aliguac's stats will due to superioer terran players being matched up against inferior protoss/zerg players. The top terran players playing against protoss's and zerg's in tournmanets are of a much lower percentile than their zerg and protoss counterparts. Given that fact, terrans should (if game was balanced) have W/R in excess of 55%. | ||
|
-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:15 Pirfiktshon wrote: That would help in some situations but rarely most it would be a start to say the least though. "like we do" You can make an MSC as well which makes a tool you can utilize just like your opponent in both respects of TW and PO whats so hard to understand of "Like we do" when we don't have a unit that blocks all ins counters drops slows down 50% movement when micro is so critical its the difference between life or death....... The fact is PvP you BOTH DO ....GG And we don't have a unit that only costs minerals with absurdly high DPS, good mobility, decent range and can hit both ground and air as our most basic unit. Which a handful of shuts down most early harrass. Its almost like...different races have different units...with different strengths. :o On December 04 2013 01:39 Hider wrote: The top terran players playing against protoss's and zerg's in tournmanets are of a much lower percentile than their zerg and protoss counterparts. Given that fact, terrans should (if game was balanced) have W/R in excess of 55%. This isn't 2011. 55%+ win rate is NOT normal or balanced, no matter how spoiled Terran has been for it in the past. | ||
|
plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:43 -Celestial- wrote: And we don't have a unit that only costs minerals with absurdly high DPS, good mobility, decent range and can hit both ground and air as our most basic unit. Which a handful of shuts down most early harrass. Its almost like...different races have different units...with different strengths. :o This isn't 2011. 55%+ win rate is NOT normal or balanced, no matter how spoiled Terran has been for it in the past. Spoiled? This kind of vitriol has to stop. Terran has received nerfs after nerfs in the past. | ||
|
painkilla
United States695 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:43 -Celestial- wrote: And we don't have a unit that only costs minerals with absurdly high DPS, good mobility, decent range and can hit both ground and air as our most basic unit. Which a handful of shuts down most early harrass. Its almost like...different races have different units...with different strengths. :o This isn't 2011. 55%+ win rate is NOT normal or balanced, no matter how spoiled Terran has been for it in the past. Huh? What he meant was when a terran lineup of Taeja, Innovation, MMA, Polt meet a protoss lineup of sOs, JYP, Stardust, Patient then the terran should be 55% winrate. That didn't happen. | ||
|
Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
And we don't have a unit that only costs minerals with absurdly high DPS, good mobility, decent range and can hit both ground and air as our most basic unit. Which a handful of shuts down most early harrass. Its almost like...different races have different units...with different strengths. :o My argument was the power of the utility vses the cost vses the time it takes to get it and the time it takes for it to become viable...... you can't tell me 400 minerals worth of marines can stop a blink all in or 1-1-1, or marine mine drop effortlessly and make my all - ins 100x ezier to execute LOL Thing is MSC is just analogous to any build all in or not and its utility from thus forth far outweighs the cost...... | ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
What the terran can do against that for real ? He just commited a fucking ton to defend a allin that will never comes and if he didn't, he could have die too that allin. Seriously guys I really think this shit is OP. | ||
|
forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On December 03 2013 03:04 Assirra wrote: Well Mvp managed to get the terran race nerfed numerous times, lets see for how many times Taeja goes. So far none. The queen buff was required since back then all the terran needed to do was park a couple hellions near the natural of the zerg and it would take ages just to get a third since nothing could kill them and if you chased them, they would run in your base and roast your drones by the time you get back. We had 2base zerg vs 3base terran for gods sake. All this time and there are still people bullshitting about the queen buff as if it were anything but a gamebreaking blunder on Blizzard's part. Amazing. | ||
|
Iron_
United States389 Posts
On December 04 2013 13:51 Faust852 wrote: Just watched a TvP from Avilo, Avilo went reaper expand and his opponent go Gate expand into blink 5 gates. Avilo scouts it all and add like 4 bunkers. The protoss just doesn't warp 3 stalkers, go 2 forges/HT tech and start taking his third. What the terran can do against that for real ? He just commited a fucking ton to defend a allin that will never comes and if he didn't, he could have die too that allin. Seriously guys I really think this shit is OP. Protoss friend of mine just started doing this, and I've faced it twice on the ladder. I get ROFL stomped. The only thing I can think of, is that if you scout blink, you need to keep scanning his third? I mean that is an AWFUL thing to have to do, and if he does blink you can't afford to be without everything at your disposal. I've said it quite a few times, and I'll just go ahead and say it again here, TvP is broken just as bad if not worse than TvZ was for the last year of WOL. It will get worse before it gets better fellas. Any Terrans want to help me form a support group? We can call it "Battered Terrans Annonomous" ... BTA! "My name is Iron, and I am a battered Terran" "Hi Iron!"  | ||
|
RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
On December 04 2013 14:44 Iron_ wrote: Send out single units to scout his army size (SCV every 30 seconds etc.). If it's low, he's either teching, expanding, or both. You can respond from there.Protoss friend of mine just started doing this, and I've faced it twice on the ladder. I get ROFL stomped. The only thing I can think of, is that if you scout blink, you need to keep scanning his third? I mean that is an AWFUL thing to have to do, and if he does blink you can't afford to be without everything at your disposal. I've said it quite a few times, and I'll just go ahead and say it again here, TvP is broken just as bad if not worse than TvZ was for the last year of WOL. It will get worse before it gets better fellas. Any Terrans want to help me form a support group? We can call it "Battered Terrans Annonomous" ... BTA! "My name is Iron, and I am a battered Terran" "Hi Iron!" | ||
|
IcED Bk
Canada245 Posts
That topic needs to be put here btw, has its own thread | ||
|
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 04 2013 01:39 Hider wrote: Quite the contrary. Looking at these stats - I would argue that we need to back to 2010 for a comparable situation (where zerg was as much UP as terran is today). Interpreting the statistics, its really hard to get to another conclusion. This is the problem - Your not interpreting the statistics correctly. Blizzards stats will always towards 50-50. Just like Aliguac's stats will due to superioer terran players being matched up against inferior protoss/zerg players. Same as good zergs playing against weaker P/T and good Protoss playing against weaker T/Z. It's a problem of aligulac respecting games like: jjakji(T) 2–0 Mekar(P) from low level tournaments, which means that in those stats the winpercentages of pro and semiproplayers will be inflated by playing in weekly leagues/cups against lowercalibre players. And those weekly leagues and cups making quite for a lot of games on aligulac. What it means is that the stats are always closer to 50-50 than they should be, and a 5% imbalance shown may be a 6,7,8,9, or 10% imbalance if you filter out all the "pro vs nonpro"-games (which the pro wins regardless of balance). So yes, PvT is actually looking a little scary right now. Not for long enough, but it certainly should be closely observed. On December 04 2013 01:39 Hider wrote: The top terran players playing against protoss's and zerg's in tournmanets are of a much lower percentile than their zerg and protoss counterparts. Given that fact, terrans should (if game was balanced) have W/R in excess of 55%. They are of the same percentile. (Assuming perfect balance) it should look like this: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GaHhhPj.jpg) What you are suggesting looks like this: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3UAb72B.jpg) | ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland12382 Posts
| ||
|
DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
It's not a decision to get it because the advantage of having it far outweighs not having it. It's another Warp Gate research which is a thing you will get no matter what. And what are the advantages? Being almost completely safe against all ins in certain period of time. You cannot outmicro or outwit PO, it is there and it is granted. Granted mechanics is what what makes SC2 dull on strategical level. And it is such an unelegant way of desinging a simple make-up to cover the holes from Blizzard. I hope that when LotV launches Blizzard will revaluate their earlier decisions that were simply a band-aids at the time and cancel some of them to bring the strategical level where it was. A risk/reward system was always a big part of Starcraft. Contrary to belief Starcraft 2 of now seems way less strategical than it was in 2011. The amount of known information is so big and the amount of unknown was cut so low that it is no wonder people are calling for mech again like they were in past. It is getting somewhat stale. | ||
|
WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
| ||
|
Extenz
Italy822 Posts
| ||
|
Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On December 04 2013 20:28 Wombat_NI wrote: Risk/reward, ah how I miss it no just innovate it's ok INNOVATE INNOVATE INNOVATE | ||
| ||
