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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:04 DusTerr wrote: I'd like snipe to be easier to use.... it seems too easy to get mixed up with the previous move or attack command when you're trying to queue up snipes from time to time. (Maybe that's just me being bad.) Press stop (S, W for grid) immediately before queuing EMPs or snipes to clear prior command queue. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:19 ffadicted wrote: Buffing EMP is such a short-sighted bandaid fix. It does nothing for the matchup. It leaves it in the sh*thole it is, does nothing to add more dynamic to it, and it will remain as stale as ever while MAYBE inching the matchup a bit closer to 50% in the most boring way. Let's try to do something better imo I'd argue it creates a lot more dynamic mid-lategame for protoss since they will actually want to go aggressive at some point to avoid fighting mass ghosts with good EMP. It creates a dynamic where protoss has the early and lategame whereas terran has the mid- and very late game. Its also a significant buff to mech TvP as mech hates immortals and archons more than anything. The problem with what you are asking for is a major shift in the match-up which will never happen with just a mere balance patch. Hell, Blizzard couldn't even break the MMM core when they had an entire expansion beta cycle with HOTS to adjust it. Blizzard is also much more careful these days, there hasn't been a single HOTS patch that would've really shaken up the meta like some of the WOL patches did (infestor, queen buffs come to mind). I hate the stale TvP meta as much as any terran but its not going to be fixed that easily. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:34 Bagi wrote: I'd argue it creates a lot more dynamic mid-lategame for protoss since they will actually want to go aggressive at some point to avoid fighting mass ghosts with good EMP. It creates a dynamic where protoss has the early and lategame whereas terran has the mid- and very late game. Its also a significant buff to mech TvP as mech hates immortals and archons more than anything. The problem with what you are asking for is a major shift in the match-up which will never happen with just a mere balance patch. Hell, Blizzard couldn't even break the MMM core when they had an entire expansion beta cycle with HOTS to adjust it. Blizzard is also much more careful these days, there hasn't been a single HOTS patch that would've really shaken up the meta like some of the WOL patches did (infestor, queen buffs come to mind). I hate the stale TvP meta as much as any terran but its not going to be fixed that easily. well, they erased hellbat play basically from the game outside of mech tvt. i would call that shaking up quite a bit. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:34 Bagi wrote: I'd argue it creates a lot more dynamic mid-lategame for protoss since they will actually want to go aggressive at some point to avoid fighting mass ghosts with good EMP. It creates a dynamic where protoss has the early and lategame whereas terran has the mid- and very late game. Its also a significant buff to mech TvP as mech hates immortals and archons more than anything. The problem with what you are asking for is a major shift in the match-up which will never happen with just a mere balance patch. Hell, Blizzard couldn't even break the MMM core when they had an entire expansion beta cycle with HOTS to adjust it. Blizzard is also much more careful these days, there hasn't been a single HOTS patch that would've really shaken up the meta like some of the WOL patches did (infestor, queen buffs come to mind). I hate the stale TvP meta as much as any terran but its not going to be fixed that easily. The problem with Terran is that, by design, Barracks units are the only ones cheap enough and maneuverable enough to be a core army. Factory and Starport units are either too niche or are not powerful enough to be anything but support. Tanks don't hit hard enough. Hellions only provide "meatshield" qualities that marines already provide. Widow mines have too much of a cooldown. Banshees are too fragile Thors too expensive etc... By design, Factory and Starport units are great at support. And because of this, we only see MMMM because that's what the units are designed to do. | ||
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Survivor61316
United States470 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:52 Salient wrote: No, they didn't. Blue Flame hellbats are still just as powerful as before in the mid-game. No they're not, not even close. Because now to get to them you have to sacrifice production and resources resulting in a smaller army supply. And god knows Terran can barely make enough units to content with Protoss as is. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
I blame Taeja, Mvp and the rest of the terran gods because they make it look like its doable ^^ | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 03 2013 08:42 Fjodorov wrote: I dont understand why they want this design with 1 race stronger early and the other late. It just reduces the quality of the game and makes it stale. Taking a good engagement lategame in TvP with max armys is so hard I can count on one hand the number of times ive actually won such an engagement when both are max and even. And its not like you can come out even in such a fight because of warp in mechanic. Tbh ive always thought that colossus was the big problem because its such a bad unit in every single way. A move aoe with long range and it gets hardcounterd by vikings. Microing them is useless, u are better off letting them do as much dmg as possible in the fight most of the times. Colossus ruins PvP (laser wars), ruins PvZ and ruins TvP. I blame Taeja, Mvp and the rest of the terran gods because they make it look like its doable ^^ In fairness, Bisu made PvZ look "doable" also. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On December 03 2013 08:58 Thieving Magpie wrote: In fairness, Bisu made PvZ look "doable" also. In fairness, it was atleast fun playing pvz | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On December 03 2013 09:09 Foxxan wrote: In fairness, it was atleast fun playing pvz Sadly, I have no arguments against  Watching players use Shuttle/Reaver like shotguns against the zombie horde of the zerg was beautiful. | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:52 Salient wrote: No, they didn't. Blue Flame hellbats are still just as powerful as before in the mid-game. I get it, your a protoss player and I see you constantly posting 1-2 sentence pro protoss stuff here. That's fine, but it starts to get annoying when you show a clear misunderstanding of the game on so many levels. So Hellbats are still just as powerful in the mid-game huh? Weird, I thought I had to drop a tech lab on a factory (which I DONT want to do if I just want hellbats), research a 150/150 upgrade, wait for that upgrade to finish, and finally, then they are the same strengh as before. But of course, we will have LESS HELLBATS, and a **worse infostructure**. This leads to hellbats NOT being as effective in the mid game, and missing the tiny tiny window we now have vs Protoss before splash takes over. We get it, you want protoss to not get nerfed. Thanks for your opinion, but try and put at least some thought into what you write. In another post you said that old hellbats were a bigger issue in tvz than the mine. This stuff just isn't accurate. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
A Base Cannon for Protoss? A base cannon...............for Protoss? A base..........cannon.........? A base cannon? How about a Universal Shot Absorber to protect the base and workers from enemy attacks throughout the game? This will allow for a greater longevity of army and thusly then assure a victory over the other player. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 03 2013 10:17 WeddingEpisode wrote: Photon Overcharge is awful for gameplay. A Base Cannon for Protoss? A base cannon...............for Protoss? A base..........cannon.........? A base cannon? How about a Universal Shot Absorber to protect the base and workers from enemy attacks throughout the game? This will allow for a greater longevity of army and thusly then assure a victory over the other player. Planetary Fortress. Lol. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 03 2013 07:52 Salient wrote: No, they didn't. Blue Flame hellbats are still just as powerful as before in the mid-game. It is all about timing. It is like saying that Protoss shouldn't chrono their upgrades because they will get 3/3 anyways, just later. Having a timing is what Starcraft is all about. Imagine if storm took 90 seconds longer to research, don't you think that would change the game? Even if late game, it is the same. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
If the nexus that gets photon over charge cannot chrono boost ever again, that would be fine. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 03 2013 10:35 vthree wrote: If the nexus that gets photon over charge cannot chrono boost ever again, that would be fine. Touché. Still I think the problem is more that the protoss can make 2 Overcharges (almost 3) in a row so the terran really CAN'T do early pressure. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Therapist.
United States207 Posts
If only planetary fortress was 13 range. And also, protoss gets Photon Overcharge NO MATTER WHAT. There is no tradeoff and nothing better to do than get the mothership core and let it get energy to defend BOTH BASES simultaneously with a 13 range early game safety net. Terran is not going to get any planetary fortresses until much later, and even then you can do things like drop behind the mineral line and be out of range of the planetary. You can also attack planetary fortress with siege units like colossus or tempest... or anything air, since it only hits ground. Photon Overcharge has 13 range, targets anything, and is available with no tradeoff at all points of the game. There is no such argument as "Terran has planetary fortress, so therefore photon overcharge is fair and balanced!" | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 03 2013 10:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: As a terran I feel I lose a lot of time and energy to building placement. Trying to fit everything in your base with all the addons without blocking your units is a stupid hassle especially when macroing under pressure. Zerg has empty space everywhere and protoss can hardly block it's units due to warpgate. What would happen if Terran production buildings were 2x2 squares instead of 3x3 and addons only 1 square instead of 2x2? It wouldn't make Taeja's timings any stronger but it would make Terran easier to play. I think terran buildings is a pro and a con in the same time. How many games did I won vs Zerg in lategame because he just a-move his army on my later raxs between my nat and my third. If the zerg can't engage properly you almost never lose a fight with even army. Just learn where to put your building and it will become an automatism, I almost never think about it but my bases always look like I play SimCity. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On December 03 2013 10:49 Faust852 wrote: Touché. Still I think the problem is more that the protoss can make 2 Overcharges (almost 3) in a row so the terran really CAN'T do early pressure. It's retarded how strong it is, really silly. I mean, last time I laddered was many moons ago, but I COMPLETELY screwed the pooch with a build, had essentially no units for a poke my Terran opponent was doing and Overcharge saved my ass. No good thinking from my part, no 'I'll intelligently save energy for PO', just me fucking up and getting bailed out by a brainlessly strong ability. | ||
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