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On November 27 2013 03:43 Bagi wrote:
Has there ever been a good community solution to fixing the swarm host?
I'm just not seeing any potential in the unit in its current form other than sitting behind masses of static defense. Plus the unit seems to be the one on Blizzards radar right now.
I think that only nerving SH would create a big problem against Toss. If they will nerd the Sh they should do something about the toss air. Maybe nerving Void rays a bit or making corruptors actually useful and hopefully interesting. SH and toss air both increase turtling so i think "fixing" them would be really tough.
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On November 27 2013 04:09 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 03:43 Bagi wrote:
Has there ever been a good community solution to fixing the swarm host?
I'm just not seeing any potential in the unit in its current form other than sitting behind masses of static defense. Plus the unit seems to be the one on Blizzards radar right now. I think that only nerving SH would create a big problem against Toss. If they will nerd the Sh they should do something about the toss air. Maybe nerving Void rays a bit or making corruptors actually useful and hopefully interesting. SH and toss air both increase turtling so i think "fixing" them would be really tough.
Yeah don't get me wrong I'm not asking for zerg nerfs, I just feel the unit in its current form makes for incredibly dull games.
I even like the core design of spawning units, and I've been wondering if anyone has been able to come up with a solution where they had a role yet you werent forced to mass 15+ of them to get anything done.
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GIve them an Energy bar that gets up to 50 when it reaches 50 they can Travel while burrowed for the Distance of 5. Just a thought to give them more of a dynamic idea of what they are seeing how they are siege units this would create a push with them that its not imba but would make for less of a Never moving idea and create some interesting play
Or make them a "caster" where they build energy and you can release all the locusts at once but requires you to actually Cast the ability like the Infested Terrans but more of a pointed role and their energy regenerates faster because thats their only ability which can be reserached at the infestation pit 
Edit need to clarify the rapid regeneration is reserched not hte locust "Cast" ability LOL
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Maybe you could make them spawn units instantly when they burrow and then make the spawn time longer after that first wave. Also make Sh move faster when not burrowed. This would reward players who would burrow and unburrow them in the way of more locust. Faster movement would also help to reposition them and encourage less turtle style play. To compensate that the locust could be nerfed someway.
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On November 27 2013 04:37 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2013 04:09 RaFox17 wrote:On November 27 2013 03:43 Bagi wrote:
Has there ever been a good community solution to fixing the swarm host?
I'm just not seeing any potential in the unit in its current form other than sitting behind masses of static defense. Plus the unit seems to be the one on Blizzards radar right now. I think that only nerving SH would create a big problem against Toss. If they will nerd the Sh they should do something about the toss air. Maybe nerving Void rays a bit or making corruptors actually useful and hopefully interesting. SH and toss air both increase turtling so i think "fixing" them would be really tough. Yeah don't get me wrong I'm not asking for zerg nerfs, I just feel the unit in its current form makes for incredibly dull games. I even like the core design of spawning units, and I've been wondering if anyone has been able to come up with a solution where they had a role yet you werent forced to mass 15+ of them to get anything done.
I think the core problem of SHs comes down to the locusts stats and the spawn time/lifetime dynamics.
But it's very hard to predict how the dynamics change when you change those things, so I'm not really gonna post sultions, just trying to analyze what is wrong:
1) In its current version, despite the high dps of the locusts, they are not really strong for 2-3base offensive usage, since 25second maximum life time (if not killed before), from which usually at least 10 are used to travel to some target - and then you are attacking walls which are cheap - makes it a very, very softpressure options on its own.
2) the (ridiculous) high dps of the "free" locusts is way too much for basic units to to hold positions (unless you have medivacs). So counterstrategies are forced to turtle on hightech units.
3) The 25seconds life time with 30second spawn time makes it basically impossible to "avoid locusts" and then hit when the Swarm Hosts are not protected. If you want to kill the hosts, you have to power through. Which makes it very tough to balance, since some compositions are simply very good at this because they feature a lot of glasscanons (like MMM; banelings) while others simply cannot bring the dps (most protoss stuff) or the mobility (Mech) to reach the hosts. So naturally, swarm hosts will be much better against certain compositions/races, which means they are nearly impossible to balance against the others (and of course somewhat vis-verca).
It would be much better if the spawn time/life time/locust stats relations where made in a way that would make more for a tug of war play. So that you have to retreat with swarm hosts after they spawn locusts (unless you can really, really, really protect them). The time window should be balanced in a way that a Meching Terran can slowly move forward (currently moving forward takes too long).
Meanwhile enemy higher dps compositions shouldn't "just" be able to kill the locusts 5-10seconds after they spawn and then kill 15 swarm hosts easily.
I guess what I'm asking for, is to make Locusts behave a little more like projectiles with ~20second life time and a tiny bit more speed. Something that does not depend as much on Life/Damage relations. Maybe instead of a timer, make them lose life over time, so they naturally die after 20seconds. Meanwhile give them a lot of armor and more starting life, so they cannot be gunned down easily.
But as I say, hard to predict how it would really work.
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There are only 3 ways to do "spawn units"
Weak units that spawn fast
Strong units that spawn slow
Meh units that spawn at meh speed
What we have currently is meh units spawning at meh speed.
Locus DPS is good, but they die to storms and siege tank fire too quickly. They spawn too fast for how strong their units are but the "window" where locus are dead and no new locus are spawning is too long to risk not hiding swarm hosts behind a wall of spines.
Strong units that spawn slow only makes sense in a campaign. Like the torrasque from the BW missions. It wouldn't make sense to have a large number of Swarm Hosts throwing ultralisks at the opponent.
Fast units that spawn quickly overlaps too much with the role of Zerglings as the fast swarming units.
The only thing that fits is meh units that spawn at meh speed which will lead to meh gameplay.
However, lets abstract it a bit.
The point of the swarm host is to have a unit whose projectiles you can kill. So why not make it a unit whose projectiles you can kill?
Why not a spellcaster who can "save up" its energy and then expend it all in a lunge of units?
Why not a reaver/esque unit that you pay resources for ever 'shot/unit' and you can either pay through the nose or for a bunch of units or just use it sparingly?
Because the current style of slow spawning but not that slow spawning weak but not that weak units is just... mediocre looking.
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I'd like to see them have a carrieinf capacity of 4 Locust and regenerating one every 12.5 seconds; a constant stream of units with a stronger burst, but less effective dor continuous assaults because you'll spawn tiny groups quite often. Encourages real repositioning!
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On November 27 2013 04:50 RaFox17 wrote:
Maybe you could make them spawn units instantly when they burrow and then make the spawn time longer after that first wave. Also make Sh move faster when not burrowed. This would reward players who would burrow and unburrow them in the way of more locust. Faster movement would also help to reposition them and encourage less turtle style play. To compensate that the locust could be nerfed someway.
Or just make lurkers for lotv
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cheaper swarmhost with a change in locust mechanics would be great.
something like locust increase in strength (health and damage) but becomes more immobile as it travels further.
so you can have swarmhost close in for mobile harassment, and far to go back to the defensive style
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Does anyone else think protoss is an absolutely soul sucking broken race too? I literally cringe a little inside every time I get matched up against one on ladder as Terran. We really shouldnt have to resort to PULLING OUR FUCKING WORKERS just to be able to win a game. They are completely safe from cheese now with the MSC and their units just being strong as shit in general; they have a wide, wide, ever so wide variety of cheeses to choose from, many of which look damn near identical when scouting; and their late game armies are obviously the strongest in the game. Add on top of that their harass potential is leagues above anything a Terran or non muta zerg can do (outside of a lucky nydus or a doom drop by terran). There was absolutely no reason for dt tech to become cheaper or for a speed buff to the wp. And definitely no god damn reason for the oracle changes. They now have retained the strong deathball army we have all grown to love (gag) while adding the ability to harass the shit out of their opponents while they build to their ideal comps.
IMO balance between the races should work as follows: Protoss units are the slowest are therefore the strongest in head to head fights. If they can shut down harass and muster a bulkwark defense they should be able to roll over the other races in max fights because thats just how their units are designed. Zerg should be the antonym to this; their main goal should be to continually harass and backstab the other races, abusing their superior mobility to never be forced to take head on engagements if they dont want to. When they do get to the late game, they should win by using their macro mechanic of being able to summon whole armies instantaneously to send wave after wave of units until the enemy breaks. All of this should be possible because they kept the opponent on a low enough economy throughout the game that they can trade as inefficiently as they need to. Terran should occupy an area somewhere in between this; they should have a fairly strong late game army, while also retaining the ability to offer moderate forms of harass.
Unfortunately, Blizzard wants balance every race like they're Terran, and give them all "equal" means to do things. Consequently, by giving Brotoss the ability to offer what is IMO the best harass tools in the game (between warping in an army with one drop ship. dts, and oracles) and not nerfing their late game army in any way, the game isnt really getting any more balanced. TvP is a fucking joke now, and everyday I see ZvP becoming harder and harder on the Zerg. Please tell me you guys agree that either toss harass has to take a severe nerf, or their late game army comp does??
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On November 28 2013 16:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
Does anyone else think protoss is an absolutely soul sucking broken race too? I literally cringe a little inside every time I get matched up against one on ladder as Terran. We really shouldnt have to resort to PULLING OUR FUCKING WORKERS just to be able to win a game. They are completely safe from cheese now with the MSC and their units just being strong as shit in general; they have a wide, wide, ever so wide variety of cheeses to choose from, many of which look damn near identical when scouting; and their late game armies are obviously the strongest in the game. Add on top of that their harass potential is leagues above anything a Terran or non muta zerg can do (outside of a lucky nydus or a doom drop by terran). There was absolutely no reason for dt tech to become cheaper or for a speed buff to the wp. And definitely no god damn reason for the oracle changes. They now have retained the strong deathball army we have all grown to love (gag) while adding the ability to harass the shit out of their opponents while they build to their ideal comps.
IMO balance between the races should work as follows: Protoss units are the slowest are therefore the strongest in head to head fights. If they can shut down harass and muster a bulkwark defense they should be able to roll over the other races in max fights because thats just how their units are designed. Zerg should be the antonym to this; their main goal should be to continually harass and backstab the other races, abusing their superior mobility to never be forced to take head on engagements if they dont want to. When they do get to the late game, they should win by using their macro mechanic of being able to summon whole armies instantaneously to send wave after wave of units until the enemy breaks. All of this should be possible because they kept the opponent on a low enough economy throughout the game that they can trade as inefficiently as they need to. Terran should occupy an area somewhere in between this; they should have a fairly strong late game army, while also retaining the ability to offer moderate forms of harass.
Unfortunately, Blizzard wants balance every race like they're Terran, and give them all "equal" means to do things. Consequently, by giving Brotoss the ability to offer what is IMO the best harass tools in the game (between warping in an army with one drop ship. dts, and oracles) and not nerfing their late game army in any way, the game isnt really getting any more balanced. TvP is a fucking joke now, and everyday I see ZvP becoming harder and harder on the Zerg. Please tell me you guys agree that either toss harass has to take a severe nerf, or their late game army comp does??
I agree 100%. No race should have
1. The best harass and all-ins.
2. The best all-in and harass defense.
3. The best late game.
Protos needs to lose strength in at least one of these areas.
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On November 28 2013 17:48 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 16:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
Does anyone else think protoss is an absolutely soul sucking broken race too? I literally cringe a little inside every time I get matched up against one on ladder as Terran. We really shouldnt have to resort to PULLING OUR FUCKING WORKERS just to be able to win a game. They are completely safe from cheese now with the MSC and their units just being strong as shit in general; they have a wide, wide, ever so wide variety of cheeses to choose from, many of which look damn near identical when scouting; and their late game armies are obviously the strongest in the game. Add on top of that their harass potential is leagues above anything a Terran or non muta zerg can do (outside of a lucky nydus or a doom drop by terran). There was absolutely no reason for dt tech to become cheaper or for a speed buff to the wp. And definitely no god damn reason for the oracle changes. They now have retained the strong deathball army we have all grown to love (gag) while adding the ability to harass the shit out of their opponents while they build to their ideal comps.
IMO balance between the races should work as follows: Protoss units are the slowest are therefore the strongest in head to head fights. If they can shut down harass and muster a bulkwark defense they should be able to roll over the other races in max fights because thats just how their units are designed. Zerg should be the antonym to this; their main goal should be to continually harass and backstab the other races, abusing their superior mobility to never be forced to take head on engagements if they dont want to. When they do get to the late game, they should win by using their macro mechanic of being able to summon whole armies instantaneously to send wave after wave of units until the enemy breaks. All of this should be possible because they kept the opponent on a low enough economy throughout the game that they can trade as inefficiently as they need to. Terran should occupy an area somewhere in between this; they should have a fairly strong late game army, while also retaining the ability to offer moderate forms of harass.
Unfortunately, Blizzard wants balance every race like they're Terran, and give them all "equal" means to do things. Consequently, by giving Brotoss the ability to offer what is IMO the best harass tools in the game (between warping in an army with one drop ship. dts, and oracles) and not nerfing their late game army in any way, the game isnt really getting any more balanced. TvP is a fucking joke now, and everyday I see ZvP becoming harder and harder on the Zerg. Please tell me you guys agree that either toss harass has to take a severe nerf, or their late game army comp does?? I agree 100%. No race should have 1. The best harass and all-ins. 2. The best all-in and harass defense. 3. The best late game. Protos needs to lose strength in at least one of these areas.
You agree that Protoss should never ever have to move out and and just autowin if they turtled well?
Protoss is finally somewhere, where it can (and against zerg must) harass in a macrogame instead of only having pure turtle and pure allin options.
It's TvP that needs to get broader since 2011. It's Terran's lategame units and alternative playstyles that need to be viable (and not just in that matchup).
If not mech, at least give me some bio +Tank or +Thor or +BC or +Raven transitions; ANYTHING that is not "we're gonna balance this matchup around somebody countering lategame units with mooooooooore drops, because drops so much fun and we are totally OK with 50% of the units having basically no use". Just one higher tier unit that people can build strategies around.
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On November 28 2013 17:57 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 17:48 MockHamill wrote:On November 28 2013 16:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
Does anyone else think protoss is an absolutely soul sucking broken race too? I literally cringe a little inside every time I get matched up against one on ladder as Terran. We really shouldnt have to resort to PULLING OUR FUCKING WORKERS just to be able to win a game. They are completely safe from cheese now with the MSC and their units just being strong as shit in general; they have a wide, wide, ever so wide variety of cheeses to choose from, many of which look damn near identical when scouting; and their late game armies are obviously the strongest in the game. Add on top of that their harass potential is leagues above anything a Terran or non muta zerg can do (outside of a lucky nydus or a doom drop by terran). There was absolutely no reason for dt tech to become cheaper or for a speed buff to the wp. And definitely no god damn reason for the oracle changes. They now have retained the strong deathball army we have all grown to love (gag) while adding the ability to harass the shit out of their opponents while they build to their ideal comps.
IMO balance between the races should work as follows: Protoss units are the slowest are therefore the strongest in head to head fights. If they can shut down harass and muster a bulkwark defense they should be able to roll over the other races in max fights because thats just how their units are designed. Zerg should be the antonym to this; their main goal should be to continually harass and backstab the other races, abusing their superior mobility to never be forced to take head on engagements if they dont want to. When they do get to the late game, they should win by using their macro mechanic of being able to summon whole armies instantaneously to send wave after wave of units until the enemy breaks. All of this should be possible because they kept the opponent on a low enough economy throughout the game that they can trade as inefficiently as they need to. Terran should occupy an area somewhere in between this; they should have a fairly strong late game army, while also retaining the ability to offer moderate forms of harass.
Unfortunately, Blizzard wants balance every race like they're Terran, and give them all "equal" means to do things. Consequently, by giving Brotoss the ability to offer what is IMO the best harass tools in the game (between warping in an army with one drop ship. dts, and oracles) and not nerfing their late game army in any way, the game isnt really getting any more balanced. TvP is a fucking joke now, and everyday I see ZvP becoming harder and harder on the Zerg. Please tell me you guys agree that either toss harass has to take a severe nerf, or their late game army comp does?? I agree 100%. No race should have 1. The best harass and all-ins. 2. The best all-in and harass defense. 3. The best late game. Protos needs to lose strength in at least one of these areas. You agree that Protoss should never ever have to move out and and just autowin if they turtled well? Protoss is finally somewhere, where it can (and against zerg must) harass in a macrogame instead of only having pure turtle and pure allin options. It's TvP that needs to get broader since 2011. It's Terran's lategame units and alternative playstyles that need to be viable (and not just in that matchup). If not mech, at least give me some bio +Tank or +Thor or +BC or +Raven transitions; ANYTHING that is not "we're gonna balance this matchup around somebody countering lategame units with mooooooooore drops, because drops so much fun and we are totally OK with 50% of the units having basically no use". Just one higher tier unit that people can build strategies around.
Well first of all its just one of these options that need to be nerfed, if you think protoss should be forced to harass then its their deathball that needs to be nerfed, which will continue to force them to have to harass to keep the game even. I dont agree with this personally, I think a race as slow as protoss should focus on defense first and if you dont like to play like that, play a different race. Whats the point of having different races if they are all going to be balanced and play the same way?
And as far as TvP goes, the immortal hard counters armored units far to well for mech to ever work, or any type of bio mech army. Its funny, because terran had to play mech vs protoss in BW because of things like storm and zlot legs making late game bio all but impossible, then in SC2 they add a perfect tank killing unit without taking out the things that prevented bio from working in BW. So now Terran is left in a position of having to play far superior to their protoss opponent throughout the whole game, and micro their asses off in battles just to make things even. Anyone who thinks the ghost vs ht micro fight is even has a screw loose.
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Terran got a beafy bio unit though, that can stand against the heavy protoss splash dmg a bit. (marauder!).
That is the only reason, the bio playstyle works against toss. It´s simply the HP of some the bio units, that are high enough in SC2. So you can´t say, there is nothing in SC2, favoring bio play vs protoss in comparison to BW.
However, with smartcast its way easier to rain down a barrage of storm onto the enemy army and the colossus is way easier to use than the reaver in real army vs army combats. Mech gets hard countered by one unit, that´s a problem. I think the immortal is just in the game, because they planned to give the tank 50 flat damage against everything, so zealots weren´t a counter anymore. But with the nerf to tanks in 2010, they wouldn´t be really nessecary anymore in TvP. Ofc they are now extremely needed to keep PvZ balanced, so blizzard can neither nerf nor remove the immortal.
But as long as immortals exist in the fashion they are now, Mech will simply not work in TvP.
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On November 29 2013 02:25 Survivor61316 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 17:57 Big J wrote:On November 28 2013 17:48 MockHamill wrote:On November 28 2013 16:59 Survivor61316 wrote:
Does anyone else think protoss is an absolutely soul sucking broken race too? I literally cringe a little inside every time I get matched up against one on ladder as Terran. We really shouldnt have to resort to PULLING OUR FUCKING WORKERS just to be able to win a game. They are completely safe from cheese now with the MSC and their units just being strong as shit in general; they have a wide, wide, ever so wide variety of cheeses to choose from, many of which look damn near identical when scouting; and their late game armies are obviously the strongest in the game. Add on top of that their harass potential is leagues above anything a Terran or non muta zerg can do (outside of a lucky nydus or a doom drop by terran). There was absolutely no reason for dt tech to become cheaper or for a speed buff to the wp. And definitely no god damn reason for the oracle changes. They now have retained the strong deathball army we have all grown to love (gag) while adding the ability to harass the shit out of their opponents while they build to their ideal comps.
IMO balance between the races should work as follows: Protoss units are the slowest are therefore the strongest in head to head fights. If they can shut down harass and muster a bulkwark defense they should be able to roll over the other races in max fights because thats just how their units are designed. Zerg should be the antonym to this; their main goal should be to continually harass and backstab the other races, abusing their superior mobility to never be forced to take head on engagements if they dont want to. When they do get to the late game, they should win by using their macro mechanic of being able to summon whole armies instantaneously to send wave after wave of units until the enemy breaks. All of this should be possible because they kept the opponent on a low enough economy throughout the game that they can trade as inefficiently as they need to. Terran should occupy an area somewhere in between this; they should have a fairly strong late game army, while also retaining the ability to offer moderate forms of harass.
Unfortunately, Blizzard wants balance every race like they're Terran, and give them all "equal" means to do things. Consequently, by giving Brotoss the ability to offer what is IMO the best harass tools in the game (between warping in an army with one drop ship. dts, and oracles) and not nerfing their late game army in any way, the game isnt really getting any more balanced. TvP is a fucking joke now, and everyday I see ZvP becoming harder and harder on the Zerg. Please tell me you guys agree that either toss harass has to take a severe nerf, or their late game army comp does?? I agree 100%. No race should have 1. The best harass and all-ins. 2. The best all-in and harass defense. 3. The best late game. Protos needs to lose strength in at least one of these areas. You agree that Protoss should never ever have to move out and and just autowin if they turtled well? Protoss is finally somewhere, where it can (and against zerg must) harass in a macrogame instead of only having pure turtle and pure allin options. It's TvP that needs to get broader since 2011. It's Terran's lategame units and alternative playstyles that need to be viable (and not just in that matchup). If not mech, at least give me some bio +Tank or +Thor or +BC or +Raven transitions; ANYTHING that is not "we're gonna balance this matchup around somebody countering lategame units with mooooooooore drops, because drops so much fun and we are totally OK with 50% of the units having basically no use". Just one higher tier unit that people can build strategies around. Well first of all its just one of these options that need to be nerfed, if you think protoss should be forced to harass then its their deathball that needs to be nerfed, which will continue to force them to have to harass to keep the game even. I dont agree with this personally, I think a race as slow as protoss should focus on defense first and if you dont like to play like that, play a different race. Whats the point of having different races if they are all going to be balanced and play the same way? And as far as TvP goes, the immortal hard counters armored units far to well for mech to ever work, or any type of bio mech army. Its funny, because terran had to play mech vs protoss in BW because of things like storm and zlot legs making late game bio all but impossible, then in SC2 they add a perfect tank killing unit without taking out the things that prevented bio from working in BW. So now Terran is left in a position of having to play far superior to their protoss opponent throughout the whole game, and micro their asses off in battles just to make things even. Anyone who thinks the ghost vs ht micro fight is even has a screw loose.
The point is that all races are still made to be fun. If you want a race that is boring inherently it should not be in the game. If you believe* that there is no place in an RTS for races with similar capabilities, then you should vote to remove some of those races, but not to pidgeonhole them into stupid gameplay that people have critizised for a long time. (Protoss deathballing, Broodlord/Infestor type of endgame unit massing etc.)
If your point is that Protoss has too strong harass or allin or deathball play, then this is a balance concern, but has nothing to do with "how Protoss should be played".
*yes, and it's just that, a belief. I don't think that there is something wrong with every race being able to harass or turtle or allin or whatever playstyle you can imagine. For as long as it is somewhat unique, which it is currently. (Terran drops, Zerg Mutalisks and Protoss Warp Prism play are all inherently extremly different. So is burrowed Infestor play, DT harass and hellion runbies). Hell, even if it is somewhat similar, even mirror play can be very exciting. (e.g. there is nothing wrong with Terran being able to do hellion runbies, even if this is a very "zergish" form of aggression. Or that Protoss/Zerg also have dropcapabilities. Or that 2races have longrange+slow+ground only+splash siege weapons, or...)
Yes, Immortals are a problem unit. But Roaches and Ultralisks are still playable in ZvP, Stalkers and Colossi in PvP. All of them despite Immortals being an option for the opponent, which has a lot to do with there being unit choices besides those armored, ground based play.
+ Show Spoiler +I used to play Mech TvP in WoL Lyyna style (~Diamond/Masters) and it was quite potent against mass Immortals imo, because banshees were actually quite good early, and ghosts+tanks/thor/BCs later on. This is not meant to say that Mech was good WoL or something, but it means to say that single units usually imposes no problem. In Mech vs Protoss it's the amount of difficulties that make it useless. Immortalbased play in its own however could be countered quite nicely.
Nerfing the immortal would of course be one of the most logical/easy solutions, but it surely isn't the only one.
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Mech TvP was much stronger in WoL, than it is in HotS. Nexus cannon and Tempest were the killing blow!
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SOS vs Taeja Game 1. So balanced.
Oracle and Toss are so broken.
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On November 29 2013 05:03 larse wrote:
SOS vs Taeja Game 1. So balanced.
Oracle and Toss are so broken.
Because it kills workers when there is nothing to defend?
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On November 29 2013 05:04 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 05:03 larse wrote:
SOS vs Taeja Game 1. So balanced.
Oracle and Toss are so broken.
Because it kills workers when there is nothing to defend?
Yeah, because oracle is fine and the speed buff is 100% justified.
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EPT
