|
On November 26 2013 04:03 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
The simplicity of your solutions is quite funny. It doesn't work like that sorry. Anybody can do that Problem with zealots - let's create ultimate counter hellbat! Problem with colossus - let's create ultimate counter viking! Problem with HTs - let's create ultimate counter ghost! Problem with early game defense - give them free siege research and bunker good against everything easy to get early game defense! Cmon lol We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. What's the counter of ghosts already ? Oh, right... HTs. Anyway, I really like players who thinks "you have siege tanks to defend allin (blink). Like in their minds we HAVE to open factory. It's not like it's the best hardcounter to Blink, it is not. + When you scout some shit like that it's already too late to make a factory for tank production, don't forget, we can't warp or chrono units.
I was being equally as ridiculous as him on purpose to show that no, it's not that simple lol
With that said, it's not too much to expect to kill you with an all-in when you still don't have a factory/any tech at the point it hits AND you don't scout it/scout it too late AND you don't place bunkers properly. That's the point of an all-in. If ppl could hold all-ins with no/late scouting information, no tech and no preparation whatsoever, what would be the point of all-ins? Reapers are pretty good at scouting, you just have to learn to process what you see. It's damn hard to hold regardless, as all good all-ins are.
Also not really, feedback vs. EMP wars are good but generally the counter to heavy ghost play is colossus, sticking with just gateway HTs is risky as sh*t
|
On November 26 2013 00:44 Nightsz wrote:
Terran as a race in itself is perfectly designed, the only problem is that the other races don't have the same skill ceiling as terran.
Blizzard creates the stupid solution of nerfing terran because of high calibre players like Taeja who can utilize the race to its fullest potential who make the race seem overpowered.
But the truth is protoss are so poorly designed in terms of skill ceiling that its incredibly difficult to truly distinguish "good" protoss players since skill for protoss is essentially how well they can utilize their spellcasters. Which is either a shot or a miss.
Other than that, there is no real micro from protoss aside from blink stalkers
Terran has just as many design flaws as P & Z. tanks and vikings have very low micro potential thanks to their frontswing, slow turn rate, and lack of a moving turret. one banshee can kill infinite marines, but multiple banshees just bug out to separation radius. the only time you get to see perfect banshee micro is during early game harass. If you meant to say marine/marauder/medivac is perfectly designed, then yeah I agree. stimpacks, marine splitting and drop play are among the few things that bring this game to life.
|
On November 26 2013 04:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
I expect some balance changes soon since i think P will be above 50% in both matchups in tournamnets in november( which will make them strongest race in 4 of 5 of last months) + on ladder Protoss distribution goes 30->33>36->42 from platinum->gm Those don't actually "counter" those units... Once mutalisks reach critical mass you need stalkers (because they're cheap) and Templars (aoe) since the Phoenix will die too quickly to worm bounce and can't keep up with Zerg production. Brood lord Transitions hits timings where they have a swathe of corruptors stopping Protoss from going air and suddenly shifting to brood lords before tempest production gets going. Etc... Not saying that tempests and Phoenix aren't good vs those units, it's just that saying A counters B is a dishonest way of analyzing the game.
Sorry im confused how the hell more mutas can fight phoenixes when the are faster and have more range. Why Zerg palyers are using corruptors with mutas then?
There is no counter in this game like phoenix is to muta.
|
On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed.
Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong.
|
On November 26 2013 05:07 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong.
Well I guess that's all anyone can do. Don't hold your hopes up, I "predicted" an infestor nerf even before those WoL patches actually went through, and look how damn long I had to wait 
Playing the game waiting for a nerf and assuming imbalance puts you in a crappy mindset to learn and improve, trust me, I was there with WoL PvZ
|
I have a feeling HTs will get buffed in the next patch is my prediction. Terran will get Ghost Nerfed because "we would like to see more variation and TvP is getting stale" LOL That is My Prediction.
I really just want them to revert this patch and do something that is more logical than "we want the oracle to never die" and " we'd like to see wm and tanks used so we are forcing you to do this" Thats all I want something logical and not backed by "I don't like how this is played" or "I like this unit and I want to see it all game" lol
|
On November 26 2013 04:07 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:03 Faust852 wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
The simplicity of your solutions is quite funny. It doesn't work like that sorry. Anybody can do that Problem with zealots - let's create ultimate counter hellbat! Problem with colossus - let's create ultimate counter viking! Problem with HTs - let's create ultimate counter ghost! Problem with early game defense - give them free siege research and bunker good against everything easy to get early game defense! Cmon lol We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. What's the counter of ghosts already ? Oh, right... HTs. Anyway, I really like players who thinks "you have siege tanks to defend allin (blink). Like in their minds we HAVE to open factory. It's not like it's the best hardcounter to Blink, it is not. + When you scout some shit like that it's already too late to make a factory for tank production, don't forget, we can't warp or chrono units. I was being equally as ridiculous as him on purpose to show that no, it's not that simple lol With that said, it's not too much to expect to kill you with an all-in when you still don't have a factory/any tech at the point it hits AND you don't scout it/scout it too late AND you don't place bunkers properly. That's the point of an all-in. If ppl could hold all-ins with no/late scouting information, no tech and no preparation whatsoever, what would be the point of all-ins? Reapers are pretty good at scouting, you just have to learn to process what you see. It's damn hard to hold regardless, as all good all-ins are. Also not really, feedback vs. EMP wars are good but generally the counter to heavy ghost play is colossus, sticking with just gateway HTs is risky as sh*t
Even if you scout it directly, like the guy drop his twillight in front of your eyes, if you dicided to do something like rax expand rax rax, or cc first or whatever, you can't possibly have tanks in times, and it's in the BEST scenario, meaning you scout it immediatly and the protoss didn't hide his twillight in a corner of the map.
I refer you to Bomber vs sOs on Younsu where Bomber scouted it very fast, put bunkers on his nat, and the rest of his army on his main, sOs blinks on the main, micro correctly and bomber couldn't do shit and lost.
Anyway the problem is not blink in itself, but maps that allow the protoss to blink from EVERYWHERE, for instance, younsu, frost, polarnight and every other fucking maps from the ladder -bel'shir.
|
On November 26 2013 04:52 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
I expect some balance changes soon since i think P will be above 50% in both matchups in tournamnets in november( which will make them strongest race in 4 of 5 of last months) + on ladder Protoss distribution goes 30->33>36->42 from platinum->gm Those don't actually "counter" those units... Once mutalisks reach critical mass you need stalkers (because they're cheap) and Templars (aoe) since the Phoenix will die too quickly to worm bounce and can't keep up with Zerg production. Brood lord Transitions hits timings where they have a swathe of corruptors stopping Protoss from going air and suddenly shifting to brood lords before tempest production gets going. Etc... Not saying that tempests and Phoenix aren't good vs those units, it's just that saying A counters B is a dishonest way of analyzing the game. Sorry im confused how the hell more mutas can fight phoenixes when the are faster and have more range. Why Zerg palyers are using corruptors with mutas then? There is no counter in this game like phoenix is to muta.
Because Mutas pop 9-15 at a time...
Protoss players don't see a pack of mutas and go "I know, get phoenix."
Protoss players see a spire, or see evidence of a Mutalisk transition and begin producing phoenixes *before* Mutalisk production, but not too visibly and not too strongly otherwise a sudden surge of zerglings will overwhelm the weak ground force and the protoss player has nothing left but 15-20 phoenixes watching zerglings kill his base.
A protoss player normally makes a small pack of phoenixes, supported by blink stalkers (to prevent a sudden tech switch from killing them), while making templars (to allow the smaller number of phoenixes to have some oompf against the massive muta cloud).
Its not as simple as Phoenix > Mutalisks
|
On November 26 2013 05:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:52 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 04:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
I expect some balance changes soon since i think P will be above 50% in both matchups in tournamnets in november( which will make them strongest race in 4 of 5 of last months) + on ladder Protoss distribution goes 30->33>36->42 from platinum->gm Those don't actually "counter" those units... Once mutalisks reach critical mass you need stalkers (because they're cheap) and Templars (aoe) since the Phoenix will die too quickly to worm bounce and can't keep up with Zerg production. Brood lord Transitions hits timings where they have a swathe of corruptors stopping Protoss from going air and suddenly shifting to brood lords before tempest production gets going. Etc... Not saying that tempests and Phoenix aren't good vs those units, it's just that saying A counters B is a dishonest way of analyzing the game. Sorry im confused how the hell more mutas can fight phoenixes when the are faster and have more range. Why Zerg palyers are using corruptors with mutas then? There is no counter in this game like phoenix is to muta. Because Mutas pop 9-15 at a time... Protoss players don't see a pack of mutas and go "I know, get phoenix." Protoss players see a spire, or see evidence of a Mutalisk transition and begin producing phoenixes *before* Mutalisk production, but not too visibly and not too strongly otherwise a sudden surge of zerglings will overwhelm the weak ground force and the protoss player has nothing left but 15-20 phoenixes watching zerglings kill his base. A protoss player normally makes a small pack of phoenixes, supported by blink stalkers (to prevent a sudden tech switch from killing them), while making templars (to allow the smaller number of phoenixes to have some oompf against the massive muta cloud). Its not as simple as Phoenix > Mutalisks
I know, let's introduce the ultra-phoenix. You don't actually have to build it, as long as the zerg builds mutas while facing a protoss, the mutas die the moment they hatch. Would that be a good enough counter to you?
|
On November 26 2013 05:55 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:52 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 04:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
I expect some balance changes soon since i think P will be above 50% in both matchups in tournamnets in november( which will make them strongest race in 4 of 5 of last months) + on ladder Protoss distribution goes 30->33>36->42 from platinum->gm Those don't actually "counter" those units... Once mutalisks reach critical mass you need stalkers (because they're cheap) and Templars (aoe) since the Phoenix will die too quickly to worm bounce and can't keep up with Zerg production. Brood lord Transitions hits timings where they have a swathe of corruptors stopping Protoss from going air and suddenly shifting to brood lords before tempest production gets going. Etc... Not saying that tempests and Phoenix aren't good vs those units, it's just that saying A counters B is a dishonest way of analyzing the game. Sorry im confused how the hell more mutas can fight phoenixes when the are faster and have more range. Why Zerg palyers are using corruptors with mutas then? There is no counter in this game like phoenix is to muta. Because Mutas pop 9-15 at a time... Protoss players don't see a pack of mutas and go "I know, get phoenix." Protoss players see a spire, or see evidence of a Mutalisk transition and begin producing phoenixes *before* Mutalisk production, but not too visibly and not too strongly otherwise a sudden surge of zerglings will overwhelm the weak ground force and the protoss player has nothing left but 15-20 phoenixes watching zerglings kill his base. A protoss player normally makes a small pack of phoenixes, supported by blink stalkers (to prevent a sudden tech switch from killing them), while making templars (to allow the smaller number of phoenixes to have some oompf against the massive muta cloud). Its not as simple as Phoenix > Mutalisks
No, it's not as simple. But it's also not as complicated:
you go for a 3 stargate (voidray) play*, you are not really endangered by mutas
you go for a stargate opening* into twilight/templar tech, you are not really endangered by mutas
you go for a stargate opening* into robo. you better scout well and keep your phoenixes alive
you go for a robo opening*. you really should not try to play macro against a play who wants to get mutalisks out
*all of those openings/playstyles can vary ofc and include certain early/mid game attacks from FFE or gateway expand. And the list is of course incomplete, though those are imo the openings that can be considered somewhat macro, while I don't believe a blink opening (which is also good against mutas) is a good way to play macro in general.
There is many ways to play PvZ, and only some of them are in trouble against mutalisks. Because naturally mass mutas counters defensive robotics play, which is good and somewhat necessary, since double robo Protoss brutalizes basically all ground armies of zerg.
|
[/QUOTE]
Because Mutas pop 9-15 at a time...
Protoss players don't see a pack of mutas and go "I know, get phoenix."
Protoss players see a spire, or see evidence of a Mutalisk transition and begin producing phoenixes *before* Mutalisk production, but not too visibly and not too strongly otherwise a sudden surge of zerglings will overwhelm the weak ground force and the protoss player has nothing left but 15-20 phoenixes watching zerglings kill his base.
A protoss player normally makes a small pack of phoenixes, supported by blink stalkers (to prevent a sudden tech switch from killing them), while making templars (to allow the smaller number of phoenixes to have some oompf against the massive muta cloud).
Its not as simple as Phoenix > Mutalisks[/QUOTE]
As a Highmasters Z who went for mutas every game for the last 2 months I can tell you that mutas are NOT a problem at my level, if a protoss players smells mutas they can either go for archon/stalker and push before you reach critical mass or they can simply mass phonenix which works wonders if they dont forget to micro. Regarding the mass zerglings you are talking about I can almost confirm that with good sim city those zerlings will trade so cost-ineffectively that the protoss mineral dump(zealots) can go around and kill far off expansions.
I feel like protoss have plenty of options to win over Z and that zerg can only win if the protoss makes a critical misstake. This could either be not scouting and getting caught off guard or losing all of their sentries. I also feel like ZvP has turned into a timing oriented matchup where Z has some really strong timings which they can exploit but if they fail to do so the protoss will just overwhel with a superior army. Examples, Queen/ultra/infestor timing, which is really strong for a while untill protoss can get the perfect comp vs it. Roach/hydra/viper is harder to hardcounter but with feedback and colossus/stalker a protoss can roll it.
The only style that seems to be able to go toe to toe with a protoss army in the late game is swarmhost turtel which is boring and isnt good for the game. I also feel like after watching stephano play that that playstyle could possibly be a bit to strong.
|
On November 26 2013 05:44 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:07 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 04:03 Faust852 wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
The simplicity of your solutions is quite funny. It doesn't work like that sorry. Anybody can do that Problem with zealots - let's create ultimate counter hellbat! Problem with colossus - let's create ultimate counter viking! Problem with HTs - let's create ultimate counter ghost! Problem with early game defense - give them free siege research and bunker good against everything easy to get early game defense! Cmon lol We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. What's the counter of ghosts already ? Oh, right... HTs. Anyway, I really like players who thinks "you have siege tanks to defend allin (blink). Like in their minds we HAVE to open factory. It's not like it's the best hardcounter to Blink, it is not. + When you scout some shit like that it's already too late to make a factory for tank production, don't forget, we can't warp or chrono units. I was being equally as ridiculous as him on purpose to show that no, it's not that simple lol With that said, it's not too much to expect to kill you with an all-in when you still don't have a factory/any tech at the point it hits AND you don't scout it/scout it too late AND you don't place bunkers properly. That's the point of an all-in. If ppl could hold all-ins with no/late scouting information, no tech and no preparation whatsoever, what would be the point of all-ins? Reapers are pretty good at scouting, you just have to learn to process what you see. It's damn hard to hold regardless, as all good all-ins are. Also not really, feedback vs. EMP wars are good but generally the counter to heavy ghost play is colossus, sticking with just gateway HTs is risky as sh*t Anyway the problem is not blink in itself, but maps that allow the protoss to blink from EVERYWHERE, for instance, younsu, frost, polarnight and every other fucking maps from the ladder -bel'shir.
Fair enough, I agree with that. Maps obviously play a massive role in the game and which strategies are/aren't viable. You just have to prepare accordingly I guess. I always 2 base all-in on star station DAT THIRD lol
|
On November 26 2013 05:09 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 05:07 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong. Well I guess that's all anyone can do. Don't hold your hopes up, I "predicted" an infestor nerf even before those WoL patches actually went through, and look how damn long I had to wait Playing the game waiting for a nerf and assuming imbalance puts you in a crappy mindset to learn and improve, trust me, I was there with WoL PvZ
Outside of fact that i don't play this game you are completely right.
|
On November 26 2013 07:00 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 05:09 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 05:07 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong. Well I guess that's all anyone can do. Don't hold your hopes up, I "predicted" an infestor nerf even before those WoL patches actually went through, and look how damn long I had to wait Playing the game waiting for a nerf and assuming imbalance puts you in a crappy mindset to learn and improve, trust me, I was there with WoL PvZ Outside of fact that i don't play this game you are completely right.
Why are you arguing about balance if you don't even bother to play the game ? I don"t understand that.
|
I'm not the guy, but you argue balance as a non-player because it makes tournaments less interesting to follow. End of WoL reduced spectator numbers considerably. One would need to take care not to argue from personal experience, then.
|
On November 26 2013 07:07 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 07:00 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 05:09 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 05:07 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong. Well I guess that's all anyone can do. Don't hold your hopes up, I "predicted" an infestor nerf even before those WoL patches actually went through, and look how damn long I had to wait Playing the game waiting for a nerf and assuming imbalance puts you in a crappy mindset to learn and improve, trust me, I was there with WoL PvZ Outside of fact that i don't play this game you are completely right. Why are you arguing about balance if you don't even bother to play the game ? I don"t understand that.
I'm also arguing about NHL without being hockey player, i know weird.
|
On November 26 2013 07:07 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 07:00 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 05:09 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 05:07 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong. Well I guess that's all anyone can do. Don't hold your hopes up, I "predicted" an infestor nerf even before those WoL patches actually went through, and look how damn long I had to wait Playing the game waiting for a nerf and assuming imbalance puts you in a crappy mindset to learn and improve, trust me, I was there with WoL PvZ Outside of fact that i don't play this game you are completely right. Why are you arguing about balance if you don't even bother to play the game ? I don"t understand that.
One could argue that makes him less biased because he has nothing to personally gain from buffs/nerfs to his race.
Let's not pretend our experiences in regular ladder actually give us much insight on balance at the highest level, you get that mostly from being able to analyze pro games. Sure, playing helps with this, but it's certainly not a prerequisite, as with any other sport.
|
On November 26 2013 05:44 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 04:07 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 04:03 Faust852 wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
The simplicity of your solutions is quite funny. It doesn't work like that sorry. Anybody can do that Problem with zealots - let's create ultimate counter hellbat! Problem with colossus - let's create ultimate counter viking! Problem with HTs - let's create ultimate counter ghost! Problem with early game defense - give them free siege research and bunker good against everything easy to get early game defense! Cmon lol We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. What's the counter of ghosts already ? Oh, right... HTs. Anyway, I really like players who thinks "you have siege tanks to defend allin (blink). Like in their minds we HAVE to open factory. It's not like it's the best hardcounter to Blink, it is not. + When you scout some shit like that it's already too late to make a factory for tank production, don't forget, we can't warp or chrono units. I was being equally as ridiculous as him on purpose to show that no, it's not that simple lol With that said, it's not too much to expect to kill you with an all-in when you still don't have a factory/any tech at the point it hits AND you don't scout it/scout it too late AND you don't place bunkers properly. That's the point of an all-in. If ppl could hold all-ins with no/late scouting information, no tech and no preparation whatsoever, what would be the point of all-ins? Reapers are pretty good at scouting, you just have to learn to process what you see. It's damn hard to hold regardless, as all good all-ins are. Also not really, feedback vs. EMP wars are good but generally the counter to heavy ghost play is colossus, sticking with just gateway HTs is risky as sh*t Even if you scout it directly, like the guy drop his twillight in front of your eyes, if you dicided to do something like rax expand rax rax, or cc first or whatever, you can't possibly have tanks in times, and it's in the BEST scenario, meaning you scout it immediatly and the protoss didn't hide his twillight in a corner of the map. I refer you to Bomber vs sOs on Younsu where Bomber scouted it very fast, put bunkers on his nat, and the rest of his army on his main, sOs blinks on the main, micro correctly and bomber couldn't do shit and lost. Anyway the problem is not blink in itself, but maps that allow the protoss to blink from EVERYWHERE, for instance, younsu, frost, polarnight and every other fucking maps from the ladder -bel'shir.
So we need to fix the map pool? Not the actual builds. Because if you leave all those garbage maps in but nerf the all in, Protoss is really screwed on those maps. All the best blink maps are also awful Protoss macro maps.
|
On November 26 2013 07:21 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2013 07:07 Faust852 wrote:On November 26 2013 07:00 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 05:09 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 05:07 keglu wrote:On November 26 2013 03:55 ffadicted wrote:On November 26 2013 03:52 keglu wrote:
One problem with Protoss it's that they receieved easy way out of their problems
Problem with mutas - let's create ultimate counter in phoneix
Problem with broodlors - let's create ultimate counter in tempest
Problem with early game defense - give them good againts everything easy ot get early game defence
Now other races are just heavily limited in what they can do againts Protoss.
We did have recent balance changes. Protoss got buffed. Thats right, it's called prediction. We'll see next patch if i'm wrong. Well I guess that's all anyone can do. Don't hold your hopes up, I "predicted" an infestor nerf even before those WoL patches actually went through, and look how damn long I had to wait Playing the game waiting for a nerf and assuming imbalance puts you in a crappy mindset to learn and improve, trust me, I was there with WoL PvZ Outside of fact that i don't play this game you are completely right. Why are you arguing about balance if you don't even bother to play the game ? I don"t understand that. I'm also arguing about NHL without being hockey player, i know weird.
Yeah because there are things to balance in NHL, this argument doesn't make any sens.
|
Has there ever been a good community solution to fixing the swarm host?
I'm just not seeing any potential in the unit in its current form other than sitting behind masses of static defense. Plus the unit seems to be the one on Blizzards radar right now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
