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Torra
Norway469 Posts
On July 22 2012 08:59 xPabt wrote: I think ryung vs stephano game 3 is the epitome of zerg being too strong late game. I was just about to say this too. That was just disgusting to watch. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:00 Torra wrote: I was just about to say this too. That was just disgusting to watch. Agreed. And I swear I'm going to punch out the next person that gives Stephano another free pass on the grounds that his control is "incredible." That was a fucking joke. Bl/Infestor/Ultra is absurdly cost and supply efficient. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:03 Shiori wrote: Agreed. And I swear I'm going to punch out the next person that gives Stephano another free pass on the grounds that his control is "incredible." That was a fucking joke. Bl/Infestor/Ultra is absurdly cost and supply efficient. You have to admit that he a moved almost all his army at almost all the time, which is impressive for a zerg player. | ||
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xPabt
226 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:03 Shiori wrote: Agreed. And I swear I'm going to punch out the next person that gives Stephano another free pass on the grounds that his control is "incredible." That was a fucking joke. Bl/Infestor/Ultra is absurdly cost and supply efficient. Ryung probably should have lost earlier after pushing out with too small an army but for stephano to win after having his expansions denied for so long and taking so many bad engagements is really just retarded. Terran taking a bad engagement means the game is over but for zerg the remax mechanic alows them to stick around and make a comeback due to the cost efficientness of thier late game army+ infestors. | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:03 Shiori wrote: Agreed. And I swear I'm going to punch out the next person that gives Stephano another free pass on the grounds that his control is "incredible." That was a fucking joke. Bl/Infestor/Ultra is absurdly cost and supply efficient. Hey man, making lots of corruptors and parking your brood lords above ledges to prevent marines from getting right under them is really hard. Sometimes you have to select a control group of infestors and press the F key a few times too. GM level micro. It was a genuinely good game until the giant corruptor fleet got out there. With fungals to hold the bio in place, there's just no way to get to the brood lords and kill them, and vikings are already bad enough against that army without having an upgrade disadvantage. I probably lost 70-80% of games on ladder where Zerg got to that army comp, even before the queen buff. The only way I ever managed to kill it was by baiting Zerg into open ground and getting the most ridiculous arc in the world. Problem is, not all Zergs can be baited and not all maps have enough open ground to pull that off. I want my old snipe back.  | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:07 xPabt wrote: Ryung probably should have lost earlier after pushing out with too small an army but for stephano to win after having his expansions denied for so long and taking so many bad engagements is really just retarded. Terran taking a bad engagement means the game is over but for zerg the remax mechanic alows them to stick around and make a comeback due to the cost efficientness of thier late game army+ infestors. I agree. I felt that Ryung had lost at one point, yet somehow he managed to comeback because Stephano did one horrible engagement when Ryung's army was at the choke point. It's horrible to watch games with Infestor / Blood Lords because Terran simply doesn't have answer for them. Sure Terran beat that army composition from time to time but Viking / Tank / Marine / Medivac isn't the solid answer to BL / Infestor army. BC / Raven is the ultimate army composition but it's also far from solid and far too hard to achieve. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:24 forsooth wrote: Hey man, making lots of corruptors and parking your brood lords above ledges to prevent marines from getting right under them is really hard. Sometimes you have to select a control group of infestors and press the F key a few times too. GM level micro. It was a genuinely good game until the giant corruptor fleet got out there. With fungals to hold the bio in place, there's just no way to get to the brood lords and kill them, and vikings are already bad enough against that army without having an upgrade disadvantage. I probably lost 70-80% of games on ladder where Zerg got to that army comp, even before the queen buff. The only way I ever managed to kill it was by baiting Zerg into open ground and getting the most ridiculous arc in the world. Problem is, not all Zergs can be baited and not all maps have enough open ground to pull that off. I want my old snipe back. To be fair, watching Zerg players in general, it is amazing micro relative to how most of them play. At least Stephano doesn't usually a-move his Infestors and tries to save his Ultras from bad engagements. Imagine if they all started doing it. TvZ and PvZ winrates would plummet below 30%. | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:26 Rokoz wrote: I agree. I felt that Ryung had lost at one point, yet somehow he managed to comeback because Stephano did one horrible engagement when Ryung's army was at the choke point. It's horrible to watch games with Infestor / Blood Lords because Terran simply doesn't have answer for them. Sure Terran beat that army composition from time to time but Viking / Tank / Marine / Medivac isn't the solid answer to BL / Infestor army. BC / Raven is the ultimate army composition but it's also far from solid and far too hard to achieve. Terrans do have an answer for them, they just don't realize that maxed army engagements aren't going to go your way when the 60 supply of your army that can hit air is range 5 marines. Terrans still don't realize they need to build higher quality maxes, they still don't realize they need to build more production after they hit 200/200 to be able to remax faster, they don't realize that if you have 2000 gas in the bank at the 25 minute mark if they had expanded for more minerals and not taken more gases they would have had enough army supply to win the game earlier or they should have gone for a composition that actually spent the gas. When it comes to late game Terrans are still in the stone age in terms of strategy and mechanics. | ||
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xPabt
226 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:50 Ziggitz wrote: Terrans do have an answer for them, they just don't realize that maxed army engagements aren't going to go your way when the 60 supply of your army that can hit air is range 5 marines. Terrans still don't realize they need to build higher quality maxes, they still don't realize they need to build more production after they hit 200/200 to be able to remax faster, they don't realize that if you have 2000 gas in the bank at the 25 minute mark if they had expanded for more minerals and not taken more gases they would have had enough army supply to win the game earlier or they should have gone for a composition that actually spent the gas. When it comes to late game Terrans are still in the stone age in terms of strategy and mechanics. Please teach all the terran players that play the game for their job what they are doing wrong. Ravens take forever to get out and are not really reliable. Adding too much production means you have no money to remake your army. | ||
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:50 Ziggitz wrote: When it comes to late game Terrans are still in the stone age in terms of strategy and mechanics. Yep, terran mechanics are famous for being bad. After all, it is very easy to split, stim stutter, drop on 3 places at once, split vikings, focus fire with siege tanks, split split split. It is very easy indeed compared to a move, press t multiple times. I don't really know how zergs can do that. SO mechanically demanding. Stephano is GOD. By the way: USA and ROOT gaming  AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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drOMG
5 Posts
On July 22 2012 10:12 MilesTeg wrote: What a joke this thread is. There's so much stupidity it's impossible to answer everything. lol exactly what I was thinking. came on this thread anticipating some good stuff. immediately went to last page to see over 9000 terrans qqing lol User was warned for this post | ||
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
On July 22 2012 09:50 Ziggitz wrote: Terrans do have an answer for them, they just don't realize that maxed army engagements aren't going to go your way when the 60 supply of your army that can hit air is range 5 marines. Terrans still don't realize they need to build higher quality maxes, they still don't realize they need to build more production after they hit 200/200 to be able to remax faster, they don't realize that if you have 2000 gas in the bank at the 25 minute mark if they had expanded for more minerals and not taken more gases they would have had enough army supply to win the game earlier or they should have gone for a composition that actually spent the gas. When it comes to late game Terrans are still in the stone age in terms of strategy and mechanics. And here ladies and gentlemen is the difference between forumboard theorycrafting and actually playing the game. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
Anyone who thinks Zerg is strong late game needs to buy himself a brain. | ||
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xPabt
226 Posts
On July 22 2012 10:30 MilesTeg wrote: Zerg late game army is so weak.... how can such an immobile expensive army get destroyed by something half the cost... Anyone who thinks Zerg is strong late game needs to buy himself a brain. That only happens if you miscontrol. Everyrace should have to worry about unit control but Zerg players seem to beleive that injecting and spending larva is the only thing they should have to do. | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On July 22 2012 10:25 drOMG wrote: lol exactly what I was thinking. came on this thread anticipating some good stuff. immediately went to last page to see over 9000 terrans qqing lol Actually I think it's more like non zergs qq'ing, and zergs inexplicably pretending their race is perfectly balanced, and that terrans and tosses are some kind of fool players who refuse to play correctly. In any case, I was reading about a couple of good examples of zerg being ridiculous, and if anyone was just watching MLG arena right now, Taeja played Lorisa on Entombed (the game after the disconnect, first of the series). So anyway, after getting generally outplayed overall Lorisa still manages to build up the super army of Broods, Banes, Corruptor, Infestor. So then he engages in the worst possible spot possible (zerg army was right up next to one of those holes in the middle of the map). He flys his broods straight into vikings with the corruptors a screen away. Vikings pick off 2 broods for free. The corruptors run over right into the marines and several corruptors are lost. Taeja moves in. Lorisa completely fails to cast his several fungals and only gets only one off. Worse engagement ever. Lorisa gets annihalated. Taeja loses almost nothing. Lorisa switches to mass ling/bling/ultra and rolls Taeja. This is just getting really stupid. In the old days the Terran would have wrecked the zerg after that kind of horrible play. Taeja really owned him skillwise and still lost handily. Depressing. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On July 22 2012 10:30 MilesTeg wrote: Zerg late game army is so weak.... how can such an immobile expensive army get destroyed by something half the cost... Anyone who thinks Zerg is strong late game needs to buy himself a brain. I've just finished watching Taeja vs Losira g1, and your post literally has me in tears. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
If you have tried out unit tester, you know that 130 supply BL/Infestor/Corruptor composition beats every single Protoss composition with the same supply, except the mothership vortex play. You can come up with the most innovated composition you can, but the result is still the same. You tried it, you know it. | ||
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Ziggitz
United States340 Posts
On July 22 2012 10:05 sieksdekciw wrote: Yep, terran mechanics are famous for being bad. After all, it is very easy to split, stim stutter, drop on 3 places at once, split vikings, focus fire with siege tanks, split split split. It is very easy indeed compared to a move, press t multiple times. I don't really know how zergs can do that. SO mechanically demanding. Stephano is GOD. By the way: USA and ROOT gaming AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Mechanics involves actually knowing what you're supposed to be doing. Banking thousands of gas you're never going to spend is bad mechanics. If you have 6 scv's mining gas you don't need for the roughly ten minutes it takes to bank that kind of gas, you could have expanded and mined more minerals for a bigger bio comp or actually spent on high quality units. Have you been watching the summer arena? Every TvZ set the Terran is banking 2000+ gas at least once. This is something every high level Terran is doing right now. Taeja just lost a game to Losira after banking 4000 fucking gas and he is considered an incredibly good TvZ player. Do you think perhaps if he had been able to max out and engage several minutes earlier by mining more minerals and less gas he might have won? Or perhaps he could have remaxed faster if he had 2 extra factories an extra starport and a few more barracks that he could have easily afforded and still have the bank to produce from them if he had had 3000 more minerals instead of gas. Yeah I'm going to point out that Terrans haven't mastered the basics of resource allocation late game because they haven't. | ||
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