Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 307

On July 22 2012 12:27 Ziggitz wrote:


4k unspendable resource gathered over ten minutes. I'm debating that being 4k resources down in army from where you could have been probably had a pretty fucking huge impact.

On July 22 2012 12:26 Shiori wrote:
I actually can't believe people are trying to debate that the different between Taeja winning and losing is taking guys off gas in the lategame.

On July 22 2012 12:43 Pinna wrote:

Transform that 4k gas to minerals. How many marines can you get with that? Well, it's nothing, it's not the reason why Taeja might have lost.

On July 22 2012 13:03 forsooth wrote:

And you think 3 SCVs here and there is going to make that 4000 minerals magically appear.

You Zergs seem to be having trouble understanding this, so I'll spell it out clearly.

There is nothing.

For Terran.

To spend all their gas on.

Taking lots of bases is very difficult for Terran. Getting more SCVs than you need to mine more than 3 at a time is a waste of supply. Terran is not Zerg. Nor is it Protoss. There is no gas sink spellcaster that balances out your income. Terran T3 isn't even good. Zerg/Protoss T3 is. There's not a whole hell of a lot out there to spend the gas on, and insisting that reassigning those 6-9 SCVs from refineries to mineral patches is going to result in some crazy upswing in income that makes it all better doesn't make it so.

On July 22 2012 12:43 Iron_ wrote:


OK so you nitpicked my amount of scvs on minerals per base. Sorry, I went with optimal. Yes 24 is the max, 20 is much more efficient. My money says he had 24 on each, but we do not have the replay. No reason to talk about expanding because they were both on the same amount of bases (remember when it was only equal when zerg was up a full base?)

Anyway, you continue with this "Terran's don't know how to allocate resources and play lategame" argument. You now are saying that pro Terrans think the same as non pro Terrans. AND you just tried to pull out the awesome argument about how Terran should not build marines. You are now a troll, nice work.

Oh and Ziggy, go ahead into the unit tester and A move that same zerg army into a Terran army. See how you do as Terran. Try it once with 0 gas then try it again with 5000 gas. Still get annihilated by 50 pop right? Right.

On July 22 2012 13:26 Ziggitz wrote:


Learn to fucking read, I've already stated the fucking obvious that if even if you do have 24 scv's on each mineral line then taking gas you would never spend on 3-4 geysers is 9-12 scv's doing nothing for you. That could be 9-12 marines, or earlier production. Even if you couldn't hold another expansion, you could build 1 OC drop 1 mule and then build a second in base OC and be able to mine with 2 extra mules that actually could mine minerals for you when oversaturated. Either way there is no justification for investing in refineries and scv's that will net you fuck all.



And you call me a troll. funny.

On July 22 2012 13:46 StooPidMonkey wrote:


9-12 marines instead of scvs! Damn! It's fucking genius! It totally fucking fixed terran's late tvz problem! Is this comment from the fucking piece who said won't comment anymore then fucked himself?

On July 22 2012 13:50 Ziggitz wrote:


Do you ever read more than 2 sentences into posts in response to yours? And what's with the sock puppet account?

On July 22 2012 14:05 StooPidMonkey wrote:

Sadly, I read more than 2 sentences from yours that's why after having been learning/taking from the community for 3 months I decided to register to give back in this very unfortunate way. When most guys are questioning your logic, you did right at first: suggested to close the topic and swelled never comment again. Oh,boy! you see now you are fucking yourself again. Haven't learn anything from your redneck hillbilly cousin? Stay where you belong, in this case, larva I guess.

On July 22 2012 13:54 imBLIND wrote:
Why are people arguing about resource management when it's hopeless for a Terran to even try and match the production capabilities of the larvae mechanic? Trading bits of your army, as a Terran, is not favorable for the Terran past a certain point, and so both sides will start putting resources in the bank eventually. So all this lategame bullshit about banking gas instead of minerals is retarded because it's going to happen anyways. And unless you're Jesus, you can't turn gas into minerals.

The fact is that Terrans need to start trading with something more expensive, but that period of time to transition towards a higher-tech army, say, battlecruisers, is too long for the Terrans to do without sacrificing something extremely critical and the timing in-game is way too small to do it anyways. Plus, you're trading units that are time-inefficient because of the larvae mechanic.

And then the theory counter to this would be that zergs would just overmake corruptors, kill the BC's, make broodlords, and we're back at square one. Take any Terran tech path, and the counter is always something the zerg "over makes" in order to get back to some broodlord/infestor/ultra/whatever composition they want. And there is absolutely nothing capable of stopping the zerg from over producing units.

Hence, terrans are sort of in a safety rut where experimenting is basically futile and they are just trying to outplay the zerg before they get comfortable. Blaming this on "well they have a lot of gas" is retarded and pointing the finger at the wrong culprit. There aren't any new and reliable timings that have been discovered as of yet, so until then, Zerg is going to have a generally easier time in ZvT.

On July 22 2012 14:40 JustPlay wrote:
What if:

Only active creep tumors give vision. The no longer active tumors just give creep.


Instead of just rushing creep across the map with a bunch of queens you'd have to think about where to place your active tumors (like overlords), and if you did just spread them across the map then getting your active tumors killed is a big deal because you don't know whether your opponent is knocking out creep or not unless you have map control.

Perhaps a lot more minor than the type of balance discussion most people have, but it's just a fun what-if type thing. Fighting creep feels entirely pointless with the current ZvT openers. Every time a terran scans and tries to kill creep I feel like I'm winning. On a lot of maps dropping is not even viable now because of creep spread.

On July 22 2012 11:25 HobitSeducer wrote:
Racial mechanics does not give Terrans enough reward for having alot of bases / alot of income
Problem: The mechanics for Zerg and Protoss translate well into the late-game. For Protoss the ability to warp-in gives the ability to instantly reinforce their army anywhere on the map, combine this with chrono boost and a Protoss player has an acceptable way of quickly converting their bank (early game advantage) into an army (late game advantage). The Zerg can pool larvae, combine this with the ability to build (almost) any unit from these larvae and a competent Zerg player has a great mechanic that translates their advantage in bases into an advantage in army.

Don't get me wrong, an advantage in bases is always preferable - no matter which race you play - and yes, Terran can of course build more production buildings. My personal feeling is that there should be an easy mechanic that rewards a player with good economy. Good play should be rewarded and as I see it the mechanics in place for Zerg and Protoss accomplishes this by also extending well into the late game.

Solution: Some new mechanic that kicks in at 200/200. My first idea was drop-pods but I would prefer it to be someting "unique" to Terran. My suggestion at this time is to give Terran the ability to pre-build. Basicly Terran production buildings would be able to produce even when the terran is maxed. The unit wouldn't emerge until there is enough supply for it but when the supply does get available it would emerge instantaneously.

I have no idea how good or bad this mechanic would be and, yes, it is a variation on "warp-in" (any units, not any place). Hopefully it would at least feel different. This is just an idea, there are probably more creative solutions that would be more fun and fit better into the game. The important thing is not this specific solution but the problem.

Side Effects: Terran will get a stronger late-game, I am quite honestly not qualified to speculate on whether it would be OP or UP.

Edit: Changed the name from "over-cue" to "pre-build" because it made more sense.

On July 22 2012 14:17 Ziggitz wrote:


So glad you could add such substance to the discussion.