EPTMind you, I have no idea what's going on at master and GM level on ladder, I only watch top level now,
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1169
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Mind you, I have no idea what's going on at master and GM level on ladder, I only watch top level now, | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 24 2014 04:02 mishimaBeef wrote: The 0-6 of TY in the TvPs of semis and 3rd place match of WECG korea was the last straw for me. I have no problem overall except photon overcharge seemed a little too "cheap" in those series. Mind you, I have no idea what's going on at master and GM level on ladder, I only watch top level now, mostly korean. Like someone else before me said, TY is a player that does a lot of things that are fun to watch and makes you FEEL like he's outplaying his opponent. But he's overly aggressive and wastes his units needlessly sometimes and it costs him games. Also, 6 Terrans, 2 Protoss, 1 Zerg streaming right now. Imba  | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On October 24 2014 04:01 antiRW wrote: Speed for medivacs was the most unnecessary addition in HOTS. It was a bad addition, but certainly not an unnecessary one. Bio would be unplayable in HotS TvZ without Medivacs being able to escape from mutas, and drop play would be completely nonexistent in TvP with Photon Overcharge. But instead of inventing the Medivac boost, they should have tweaked some of the Protoss aspects that decreased drop play (length of the warp-ins, offensive Blinks, Feedback removing all the energy/dealing full damage, ...). | ||
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Kuchikikun
Italy560 Posts
On October 24 2014 04:12 DinoMight wrote: Like someone else before me said, TY is a player that does a lot of things that are fun to watch and makes you FEEL like he's outplaying his opponent. But he's overly aggressive and wastes his units needlessly sometimes and it costs him games. He has great micro and multitasking but his macro is not top notch and he frequently overextends | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 24 2014 04:15 TheDwf wrote: It was a bad addition, but certainly not an unnecessary one. Bio would be unplayable in HotS TvZ without Medivacs being able to escape from mutas, and drop play would be completely nonexistent in TvP with Photon Overcharge. But instead of inventing the Medivac boost, they should have tweaked some of the Protoss aspects that decreased drop play (length of the warp-ins, offensive Blinks, Feedback removing all the energy/dealing full damage, ...). I'd be okay with the Medivac boost if it was just designed a bit differently. It needs to be a "holy shit get the fuck out of here" button (aka, EMERGENCY thrusters) not just an ability to go really fast for a while kind of thing. For example if they increased the cooldown on it, you could boost into a Protoss base but then you'd have to fight. So if the Protoss has to warp in a ton of units and pull back their army it's okay. Or you could wait till Protoss is out of position, sneak a couple of Medivacs in, and boost out if he pulls back. But as it is with the ability to boost in and out Protoss just needs PO. And I know people love to have on PvP and ignore it because they don't have to play that matchup, but you can't begin to imagine what PvP is like to play after PO. That matchup has changed for the better and it's pretty much because of PO helping counter Gateway cheese. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Again, change warpgate being bullshit and everything is fixed. sigh  | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
And I know people love to have on PvP and ignore it because they don't have to play that matchup, but you can't begin to imagine what PvP is like to play after PO. That matchup has changed for the better and it's pretty much because of PO helping counter Gateway cheese. Blizzards policy about mirror matchups: T) "Holy shit, siege tanks/blue flame/hellbats ruin TvT, let's nerf them. Holy shit, Mvp uses BCs but it's not quite enough, let's make them faster. Look, by making lots of good changes we created a good matchup!" Z) "uuuugh, OK, ZvZ is really shit right now because of SHs/Mutalisks. Let's introduce some weird bandaids like spore buff vs bio and leave the matchup in a different sad state, at least we tried! Sort of..." P) "Let's create a TL profile and post a lot about how good PvP is so we don't have to care. Hm, what name should we choose? I'm Dustin Browder and my favorite player is TLO. So let's make a profile that resembles that name, like DLO..." | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On October 24 2014 04:54 Big J wrote: Blizzards policy about mirror matchups: T) "Holy shit, siege tanks/blue flame/hellbats ruin TvT, let's nerf them. Holy shit, Mvp uses BCs but it's not quite enough, let's make them faster. Look, by making lots of good changes we created a good matchup!" Z) "uuuugh, OK, ZvZ is really shit right now because of SHs/Mutalisks. Let's introduce some weird bandaids like spore buff vs bio and leave the matchup in a different sad state, at least we tried! Sort of..." P) "Let's create a TL profile and post a lot about how good PvP is so we don't have to care. Hm, what name should we choose? I'm Dustin Browder and my favorite player is TLO. So let's make a profile that resembles that name, like DLO..." LARZ0ERSSS !!!!!!!!!1!!!!1111111!!! | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
BALANCE OF THE NEW (old) MAPS! I think we're going to have a lot of really stupid games and some epicly entertaining ones. Antiga Shipyard should basically be Blink allins all day.. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On October 24 2014 06:36 SatedSC2 wrote: Yep. One of the best maps for it. Cloud Kingdom and Shakuras Plateau aren't bad for it either, as you can see here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/381055-pvt-cheese-4-gate-blink-obs-all-in Should make up for how stupidly fast reapers will arrive on Metalopolis... -___- | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On October 24 2014 03:30 MstrJinbo wrote: I imagine sending 4 hydras behind the mineral line to make the PF worthless :DIt's debateble that swarmhosts do their job. More often they cause stalemates more then end them. And imagine this scenario,. A terran has a planetary fortress isolated in a corner of the map. Unless you are Life no amounts of zergling can kill it but you can't send your army because the terran would attack when you are out of position. But imagine if you send 4 lurkers. The turret is down on the first or second attack, then all the SCVs then the planetary. Imagine a terran or protoss dropping a base with lurkers burrowed there. And imagine lurker drops... I imagine terran dropping a base with lurkers there will go like this - rauders drop medivacs heal lurkers die. I don't like the design of Swarm hosts It's annoying good at space control but way too slow at actually breaking down turtles. Swarm Hosts on their own are horrible yes but with support (viper queens are awesome) they become obscenely efficent at dealing with turtles, just slow. Very very slow. To clarify I don't have an issue with the impaler other then it being fairly boring design but the lurker would be silly in sc2. | ||
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HellHound
Bulgaria5962 Posts
On October 24 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: Well, this topic has been beaten to death. Let's discuss something more fun like... BALANCE OF THE NEW (old) MAPS! I think we're going to have a lot of really stupid games and some epicly entertaining ones. Antiga Shipyard should basically be Blink allins all day.. I made a blue flame hellion all in designed for metalopolis with a friend of mine :D I think I get off on hurting zergy souls. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On October 23 2014 23:19 xongnox wrote: You should watch a bit more LP before writing stupid nonsense ^^ - http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_IX_-_San_Jose/Asian_Final_Qualifier is stage 2. You get to stage2 either by invitation or by stage 1 qualifiers : - http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_IX_-_San_Jose/Korean_and_Taiwan_Qualifier (some notable top 10 terrans : Maru, Cure, Fantasy, Ty, Flash. ) So i linked the page where you see very few terans had qualified to stage2, and protoss doing quite OK. I'm not calling imbalance on this, but simply uses this as a counter-example to the recent "terran OP" ignorant BS talk. I appreciate that this is several pages and a day late but having seen these posts I just had to comment. Are you serious? For the final Asian qualifier you have one single Terran who is in there. And its GuMiho who, with the all the respect in the world for the guy and his past achievements, isn't exactly INnoVation. The rest of the players? There were 3 qualified Protoss and 5 qualified Zerg. So on first glance Zerg is a little overrepresented. But if you look at the actual qualifiers themselves you got: Korea - 2P, 1T, 1Z. There are four slots, this was always likely to happen. The Z is Solar, who won Dreamhack Stockholm just recently. The Protoss are Rain, who is well known as a solid player, and Stats, who has just won WECG. Looking at notable participants alone that Terran lineup isn't actually that strong. As for your little list...FanTaSy is NOT a top 10 Terran for a start. Cure and Ty are pretty debatable I'd argue; decent players but not amazing. Maru and Flash are genuinely good. Looking into the qualifiers that you're setting so much store by...Flash apparently choked in the first round against Terminator. FanTaSy went way further than I'd have expected before getting taken out by the ever-improving Jaedong. Ty put in a solid enough performance to beat Dear but got defeated by Hydra. Cure got run over by an rampant Rain on his way to qualification (and, indeed, qualifying for the main event). Maru got taken down by Trust which is a surprise but its not exactly unprecedented to have surprises when so many games are going on. In short: there are plenty of Protoss and Zerg on that list that are the match of and of the Terrans there and capable of beating them. So having one of them have the extra player rather than Terran having it means nothing. China - 2Z. Hard to tell whether this is reasonable because there's a lot of races not listed. But if its any measure TooDming is the only player that people are likely to recognise there. SEA - 1P, 1Z. There weren't ANY Terrans in the actual qualifier. So I'm curious how you think more Terrans should have been in the final qualifier. The only seemingly-balanced qualifier was Korea. Which is reflected in the 2/1/1 split of qualifying players. The rest of the tournament just straight up lacks Terrans either due to small regional numbers (there were only six players in the entire SEA qualifier) or because IEM didn't invite them. Beyond the qualifying players they invited five more Protoss and three Zerg. Note: Invited. And you're using that as your counter-example. How about I set up a tournament with qualifiers for two spots and then invite fourteen Terrans. Terran OP then? In short? You can't use this as indicative of balance at all. I mean honestly... | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On October 24 2014 19:27 -Celestial- wrote: Korea - 2P, 1T, 1Z. There are four slots, this was always likely to happen. The Z is Solar, who won Dreamhack Stockholm just recently. The Protoss are Rain, who is well known as a solid player, and Stats, who has just won WECG. Looking at notable participants alone that Terran lineup isn't actually that strong. As for your little list...FanTaSy is NOT a top 10 Terran for a start. Cure and Ty are pretty debatable I'd argue; decent players but not amazing. Maru and Flash are genuinely good. Just nitpicking, but Cure has at least much right on that 'top 10 title' as Flash. So does TY. Calling these players decent while calling Stats who just had his first really notable achievement something in the trend of 'amazing' is, with all due respect, highly interesting. That being said, whilst these qualifiers were good for Protoss and Terran was somewhat lacking, this is not indicative of balance in any way. | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On maps though. I might play random, but I might just not too. I think playing random on all maps would be the best way to enjoy the pool fully. | ||
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Swisslink
2956 Posts
On October 24 2014 05:13 DinoMight wrote: Well, this topic has been beaten to death. Let's discuss something more fun like... BALANCE OF THE NEW (old) MAPS! I think we're going to have a lot of really stupid games and some epicly entertaining ones. Antiga Shipyard should basically be Blink allins all day.. The soultrain will be back in action on lots of maps, imo. Especially Ohana is most likely gonna be Soul train all day everyday xD | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On October 24 2014 20:29 Swisslink wrote: The soultrain will be back in action on lots of maps, imo. Especially Ohana is most likely gonna be Soul train all day everyday xD It's gonna be lot of pvp there cause i have a feeling that zerg will veto that map. | ||
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