EPTvVv Academy Re Launches - Page 4
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TheTrueAmerican
United States132 Posts
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Seohce
United Kingdom394 Posts
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Nomad123
95 Posts
the whole "need to go to major LAN or you're out" thing is the problem, not the $$ needed to get academy members there. i think vVv is in the wrong here though, it's like telling these guys to shell out money first by going to these LAN events, and if companies want to sponsor these guys cause they did well, they'll sponsor them through vVv and "keep" them in vVv academy, all the while vVv investing nothing on the players (except for maybe practice sessions, which could be done by dedicated group of players anyway). TLDR: i think vVv is "recruiting" players to get $$ with no real "investment" on their part. | ||
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KeyHunt
United States218 Posts
This opportunity is not for the people who will NEVER attend an event on their own. Very few people got sponsored before they attended a single event. Sometimes, if you believe in something you have to just go for it and put yourself out there a bit. If you are just having fun, and do not wish to become a better player, or practice, or play in matches..the opportunity is not for you. However, if you want to do all those things I would think this opportunity would be perfect for you. You get better practice, more established team, team experience that you might not get on your own, information from a respectable organization, maybe some gear, all that for just a little bit of your time and effort. Even if you don't want to be apart of it, show a little respect for the people that do please. | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:07 vVvSweep wrote: If you do not feel you can perform well (or at least have a good time) at a major LAN then don't go to one. This may lead to you being dropped from the Academy though. The point is, if you can't perform well at a LAN then you aren't ready to be sponsored. The vVv Academy is a place for you to prove you are ready to be sponsored and once proven you will be rewarded. It's just unrealistic to expect a player to be able to attend a LAN when it's not in their home area. Flying out + hotel fees + entry fee + food, etc....Complexity has a much better model by sending the top 2 from their academy to MLG events. Granted, it could end up being a waste of money on these players, but I think the best way to prevent this is to invest a bit of time into who gets recruited into the academy. Surely a player doesn't have to go to a LAN event to be talented, and these are the players that you want to pick up, undiscovered talent. If a player can afford to send his/herself to LAN events and place "well" why on earth would he need to join an academy for a team? | ||
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Nomad123
95 Posts
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
Just as an example for me personally, I think I would probably have an easier time meeting the LAN requirement than most. I live in RI, so that's already no cost to me besides the pass to go to MLG Providence. I also wouldn't be adverse to travelling to Raleigh and Orlando (having just gotten home from a 3k mile road trip that took me through both places). Just as an estimate, say it costs me $1000 dollars to travel to Raleigh and Orlando (I'm even being nice because I'm not flying, but driving). Depending on what kind of performance would merit consideration to sponsoring me, I would probably do that. Now, I wouldn't necessarily consider that a huge risk, despite it being a fair amount of money and me not being rich whatsoever. However, as I stated, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm in the vast minority that could do that. Anyone who has to fly to these events (and I would assume if you fly to Raleigh, you fly to Orlando because of proximity between those places) would probably double my costs easily. | ||
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
There are things about breaking into the game competitively that are very difficult to do, this solves all of them. You're getting regular, quality practice with discipline, which as we can all observe is absolutely critical in being competitive, and you get a chance to advance under a sponsor. The self entitlement everyone is putting out is really surprising and unrealistic. | ||
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jupidar
United States229 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:08 vVvSweep wrote: I can not discuss the benefits towards our team. of course they are paying for the traveling expenses, what kind of retard do you take vVv for? do you really expect vVv to be dumb enough to think they can find even one random person to represent their team and go to MLG with their own expense? stop patronizing vVvSweep!  | ||
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Soleron
United Kingdom1324 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:17 HornSnHaloS wrote: There are things about breaking into the game competitively that are very difficult to do, this solves all of them. You're getting regular, quality practice with discipline, which as we can all observe is absolutely critical in being competitive, and you get a chance to advance under a sponsor. The self entitlement everyone is putting out is really surprising and unrealistic. The problem most people are having is that you first have to put up thousands of your own money as well as weeks of your life to get yourself to those LANs to prove yourself, only after which will vVv consider paying you. Unlike a pro player contract, vVv can easily just never pay you and don't have to disclose why, all while getting the benefit of having you represent them. The risk is all yours. Look at complexity academy for something that does what you say (quality practice) without the lopsided conditions. | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:17 HornSnHaloS wrote: It is seriously concerning the sentiment in this thread. This is one of the most accessible ways to get into the competitive scene, something that is very difficult to do, and you guys are bitching about having to go to a LAN? There are things about breaking into the game competitively that are very difficult to do, this solves all of them. You're getting regular, quality practice with discipline, which as we can all observe is absolutely critical in being competitive, and you get a chance to advance under a sponsor. The self entitlement everyone is putting out is really surprising and unrealistic. You make a good point, getting to train with some of the vVv players would be beneficial but it requires an inordinate investment from the people in the academy. A huge time commitment on top of their practice load they already bear and then a massive financial commitment to attend these lans. It would be a more sound decision to just buy lessons as you get access to better players who are working one on one to make you a better player. | ||
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ExO_
United States2316 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:17 HornSnHaloS wrote: It is seriously concerning the sentiment in this thread. This is one of the most accessible ways to get into the competitive scene, something that is very difficult to do, and you guys are bitching about having to go to a LAN? There are things about breaking into the game competitively that are very difficult to do, this solves all of them. You're getting regular, quality practice with discipline, which as we can all observe is absolutely critical in being competitive, and you get a chance to advance under a sponsor. The self entitlement everyone is putting out is really surprising and unrealistic. I think this is an extremely unfair point of view. "Bitching" about going to a LAN isn't exactly unfounded, or do you have that kind of money to shell out to just attend the next MLG (most players trying to make SC2 their career don't). The practice is a great thing, but at the same time realize practicing in an academy doesn't guarantee you're going to get good enough to get on the A team. In fact, from what I've read it sounds like you have to do extremely well to get onto the A team....well enough that other teams would possibly be interested in you as well. And if you don't do that well, oh well free advertising for vVv at least that's what it sounds like to me | ||
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infussle
United Kingdom66 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:07 Moa wrote: The issue is not ROI for vVv but ROI for the players. You have to pay thousands of dollars and what do you get in return, vVv training wheel tags. You have the potential to join vVv but it isn't stated how one does that. I don't think the academy is some nefarious attempt to have players represent vVv at no cost to the organization but what incentive does vVv have to actually put players on their A team? These people will already be representing vVv but it will come at almost no cost to the organization. For a high level player to even consider this they need to see how this will actually get them placed on vVv's real team. The coL academy which is similar to this says this in regard to actually joining complexity. "Each CA member will execute a 9 month option contract with compLexity Gaming. If said option is exercised, the member will be given a full pro gamer contract and a new gaming computer from ORIGIN PC." Wouldn't you agree that it is a very slippery slope to discuss absolutions when you have only made the initial steps to run a tournment and introduce potential players into a team. I mean, does anyone think its reasonable for a team to say they will offer fully paid travel for players to LAN, without even knowing the players who will be successful in the tournament. I was under the assumption that contracts were based on the individual aswell as the said team, and the contract displays an agreement between the team and player. In terms of incentive for sending players in the academy, vVv sound willing (looking at the OP's responses in this thread) to send and pay for the players to attend the big lans. But as any smart business, they have not agreed something which is not clearly benefical to them, when again, they have no idea of who they are signing. Although there is something to be said about the actual tournament, and yes i would of preferred to see more similarities to the dignitas and complexity academy. Furthermore, is not standard for academies to offer full placements on their offical team if there is a mutal agreement? Complexity have been smart, as far as i can tell, because they are viturally offering the same as vVv. Please correct me if im wrong, I don't claim to know alot about business | ||
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fadestep
United States605 Posts
Nope. Looks pretty useless to me. User was banned for this post. | ||
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vVvSweep
United States25 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:07 RoboBob wrote: Honestly I don't understand why you don't want discuss benefits. Because from your OP it sounds like a very bad deal. You're asking the players to attend weekly meetings, attend multiple LANs at their own expense, attend all clan wars (even if they're not participating), and all practice sessions. On top of that they must do well in monthly qualifiers or they get fired. And in exchange, all you're offering the players...is some free Steelseries gear? And even then, only after being on the team for 90 days and only when they attend a LAN. Honestly most people would be better off using that time to work a minimum wage job and buy the gear themselves. If you are in the Academy for 90days and then you choose to attend a LAN, if we feel you will perform well we will provide you with steelseries gear. If you then DO perform well, consideration will be made for benefits based on performance. If you DO NOT perform well, you keep the gear and are able to go to another LAN of your choosing to try again. I wont discuss benefits in a public forum because its not black and white. If i post "if you place in top 50 at MLG then we will reimburse your expenses" then that could mean gas money to one person or several hundred dollars to another. At the same time, the people you play in the bracket can have an effect as well and would be considered. This is a small team that will get a lot of attention. But there is no simple answer to what you will be given. | ||
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KeyHunt
United States218 Posts
However, in my opinion you should WANT to attend these events. If you're trying to grow as a player, if you're already getting practice with top players ( which this will help you do ), playing in top clan wars, playing in many tournaments, etc..that is the next logical step. So, even if VVV isn't paying for anything you should want to attend these events on your own rather than beg and pray for a sponsorship that might not ever come..especially to someone with 0 LAN experience. Also, you are looking way too much at the "good" performance at MLG. By the standard of an Academy, non-sponsored at the time player, a "good" MLG performance is really a situational thing. Of course, your management and team is going to see how tough of a road you had in open bracket, and take that into account..you're not going to be cut from a team because you lost to a korean 2nd round, or you only made it to 3rd round or something. It just doesn't make any sense for an organization that is trying to make you better as a player so they CAN sponsor you, to cut you because you didn't do as well as their sponsored players..and they know that. ( Please, anyone from VVV let me know if I am putting words in your mouth or of I am wrong; but I believe everything I said to be in the spirit of the post ) | ||
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vVvSweep
United States25 Posts
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vVvSweep
United States25 Posts
On August 14 2011 07:26 KeyHunt wrote: First off, if you do considerably well online; I highly doubt they would cut you even if you weren't attending an event in the immediate future. I am not trying to put words in their mouth, but that would be a damn good guess from past experience. However, in my opinion you should WANT to attend these events. If you're trying to grow as a player, if you're already getting practice with top players ( which this will help you do ), playing in top clan wars, playing in many tournaments, etc..that is the next logical step. So, even if VVV isn't paying for anything you should want to attend these events on your own rather than beg and pray for a sponsorship that might not ever come..especially to someone with 0 LAN experience. Also, you are looking way too much at the "good" performance at MLG. By the standard of an Academy, non-sponsored at the time player, a "good" MLG performance is really a situational thing. Of course, your management and team is going to see how tough of a road you had in open bracket, and take that into account..you're not going to be cut from a team because you lost to a korean 2nd round, or you only made it to 3rd round or something. It just doesn't make any sense for an organization that is trying to make you better as a player so they CAN sponsor you, to cut you because you didn't do as well as their sponsored players..and they know that. ( Please, anyone from VVV let me know if I am putting words in your mouth or of I am wrong; but I believe everything I said to be in the spirit of the post ) This is exactly right. | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
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