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this is just confusing. If you don't attend lans you will not be sponsored but... even if you prove yourself in the academy and prove that you can compete for a spot on the top line up of vvv sc2 players, how would you go to these events? Because it does cost alot to fly out from wherever you live to mlg. Usualy sponsors are the ones that help out in this situation but here you can't be sponsored unless you first go to a lan.
And winning online tournaments, how the hell is that not valid? IGN is online tournament i guess thats not valid. Online tournament is where you prove yourself that you can compete at high lvl. Beating a pro player like idra or select in a go4sc2 means nothing?
I'm sure there are many good players who want to show they are top tier in academy but then what. What do they do from there if they don't have the money to fly out
Edit: What are the recent performances by the top vvv players? They must be paid based on performance level as well right? I'm trying to think
Edit: Well basically a player is suppose to support himself and prove he can compete at a top tier level but then for example at a major lan event such as mlg, he flew himself there and is supporting himself there, what reason does he have to represent vVv? Why not any other team or teamless and try to get picked up
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On August 14 2011 06:44 tirentu wrote:
While I understand the importance of participation in LANs, you simply cannot expect your amateur academy players to pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to attend major tournaments across the globe to retain the privilege of being on your academy team. I would love to apply for this and work my ass off to compete with the very best, but, and this is almost assuredly the case for 99% of potential applicants, there is absolutely no way I can afford to fly myself out to these events in exchange for a keyboard that I already own.
I suggest you mirror coL academy's format for something more accessible.
I think the idea is they're looking for people who are gonna do this 24/7, as in make this their job. I just think they could've worded it better on the original post - at first glance it does look like a huge rip-off. Further clarification made it more easily understandable - to be honest they should really just put MLG in there as opposed to all the other randoms that an individual would almost 100% not attend.
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this whole thing seems a bit absurd, if a team member does end up going to LANs and committing their time and money for vVv, they can be eliminated from the team in an online tournament based on their performance? Wow, really well done....
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On August 14 2011 06:43 vVvSweep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 06:36 Russano wrote:
Honestly, I feel like you'd be incredibly lucky to find 6 players who come close to meeting your criteria. Even if you limit to only GM+ skill level (and really you're not gonna be sponsoring masters players anyways), the amount of players available who aren't already on a team and would be interested in joining vVv is incredibly low. Add onto that the fact that they have to pay for what seems like a crap ton of LANs for very little reward, I highly doubt you'll find many players.
The various above points about online tournaments are valid. You could at least reduce it to like one or two MLGs or something (especicially considering its halfway through the circuit, and you seriously expect people to go to Europe to join your team? El oh El.)
Either way you will have to lower your standards somewhere, either in financial or skill ability.
You are not required to attend ALL major lans. The list of major lans is the lans that your performance in will be looked at in order to determine sponsorship. If you do not attend lans then you will not be sponsored. simple as that.
Honestly I can see what you guys are trying to get at with this but you have to understand it from the public's perspective.
1. You ask us to make a huge commitment in which we have to "here will be a tournament held on the first Sunday of every month " "All members are required to attend weekly meetings at 9:30PM EST on mumble" "All members are required to be present at every clan war to support the team and discuss the matches" "All members must attend scheduled practice sessions as well as keep up with all other parts of the training schedule" with little to no incentive. If we show up to the tournament, we fight through a likely grueling bracket to win 50 dollars. To a lot of people that is not worth the time or money. If you made it cutthroat where every month X amount of people were dropped from the program, similar to complexity's then it would make sense because at the end complexity is willing to send 3 people from their academy. But you guys are assuming some people are looking to go pro, have money, and have time to go and do all of this including major LANs(Lets assume MLG for American players because you guys ARE a NA org.)
2. "In fact, your ability to remain on the academy is dependent on it. If you do not attend major LANS, we have the option to drop you from the academy" oozes commitment. I have seen your site and to become a member of vVv you have to have/make a twitter and use other social media devices. So naturally you guys are used to people making commitments. You guys would naturally get people to try to join because they can make simple commitments like tweet sponsors or hashtag w/e you guys needed to be hashtagged. I don't think you guys hang 'attend LANs or we don't let you tag up' over your non A-Team members do you? If you do my mistake but from what I can see I don't think that is the case.
3. You ask for way too much from people who enjoy SC2 and wish to go pro. You don't see that many of those same people have other commitments that cannot be spent on a major LAN, sure they can take a weekend of time and play in a number of online tournaments but they cannot travel across the nation to compete in an event where big name pros like the Koreans(FXO) or open bracket players like KawaiiRice/EG players will easily knock them out. If they were capable on a day to day basis to beat players like this I am sure another organization would have picked them up(Think Reign picking up gix or itsgosu, smaller organizations that don't have huge sponsors/salary)
tldr; you expect too much
Good Luck though with this academy
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On August 14 2011 06:51 Malstriks wrote:
this whole thing seems a bit absurd, if a team member does up going to LANs and committing their time and money to vVv, they can be eliminated from the team in an online tournament based on their performance? Wow, really well done....
I admire your faith in our popularity. To say that if you go to MLG and place well then cannot maintain a top 6 position in an Academy just isn't plausible.
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On August 14 2011 06:49 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 06:44 tirentu wrote:
While I understand the importance of participation in LANs, you simply cannot expect your amateur academy players to pay thousands and thousands of dollars a year to attend major tournaments across the globe to retain the privilege of being on your academy team. I would love to apply for this and work my ass off to compete with the very best, but, and this is almost assuredly the case for 99% of potential applicants, there is absolutely no way I can afford to fly myself out to these events in exchange for a keyboard that I already own.
I suggest you mirror coL academy's format for something more accessible. I think the idea is they're looking for people who are gonna do this 24/7, as in make this their job. I just think they could've worded it better on the original post - at first glance it does look like a huge rip-off. Further clarification made it more easily understandable - to be honest they should really just put MLG in there as opposed to all the other randoms that an individual would almost 100% not attend.
Yes, but what kind of amateur sc2 player has the capital that they're expecting? You'd need to be working full-time to afford attending the event, but you'd have to be playing sc2 fulltime to perform adequately at the event. This is a problem.
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good responses by the OP. I think Sweep makes a very good point on ROI, and what a minority in this thread do not understand is the exact concept of investment and business, especially considering how hard it is for newcomers to the scene to have a piece of the most profitable pie. Although saying that, vVv is an established organisation who have supported the smaller gaming communties out there, and for that, they have my respect.
Any project reguarding development of upcoming talent needs as much support as possible
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On August 14 2011 06:55 vVvSweep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 06:51 Malstriks wrote:
this whole thing seems a bit absurd, if a team member does up going to LANs and committing their time and money to vVv, they can be eliminated from the team in an online tournament based on their performance? Wow, really well done.... I admire your faith in our popularity. To say that if you go to MLG and place well then cannot maintain a top 6 position in an Academy just isn't plausible.
I never said they would end up placing well in MLG. Say a person wishes to join vVv academy and fulfills the requirement of going to MLG events and other LANs for the sole purpose of staying within the academy, and also say that he/she does not place well (it would be extremely hard). And then say that they do not perform well in the tournaments you have set up that "determine who stays, joins, and leaves" the academy. They will be eliminated regardless of the fact that they have already committed a lot of time and money?
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On August 14 2011 06:58 infussle wrote:
good responses by the OP. I think Sweep makes a very good point on ROI, and what a minority in this thread do not understand is the exact concept of investment and business, especially considering how hard it is for newcomers to the scene to have a piece of the most profitable pie. Although saying that, vVv is an established organisation who have supported the smaller gaming communties out there, and for that, they have my respect.
Any project reguarding development of upcoming talent needs as much support as possible
My issue was that the criteria for both skill and financial means is so limiting, that you wouldn't find adequate people that fit them
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How do you define "doing well in LANs" because, to be perfectly honestly, I can't remember a single notable result posted in a LAN by a single member of your current team.
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Does vVv pay for its sponsored players to go to MLG's, etc?
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On August 14 2011 07:04 templar rage wrote:
How do you define "doing well in LANs" because, to be perfectly honestly, I can't remember a single notable result posted in a LAN by a single member of your current team.
That's the less delicate version of my earlier question 
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On August 14 2011 07:01 Malstriks wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2011 06:55 vVvSweep wrote:On August 14 2011 06:51 Malstriks wrote:
this whole thing seems a bit absurd, if a team member does up going to LANs and committing their time and money to vVv, they can be eliminated from the team in an online tournament based on their performance? Wow, really well done.... I admire your faith in our popularity. To say that if you go to MLG and place well then cannot maintain a top 6 position in an Academy just isn't plausible. I never said they would end up placing well in MLG. Say a person wishes to join vVv academy and fulfills the requirement of going to MLG events and other LANs for the sole purpose of staying within the academy, and also say that he/she does not place well (it would be extremely hard). And then say that they do not perform well in the tournaments you have set up that "determine who stays, joins, and leaves" the academy. They will be eliminated regardless of the fact that they have already committed a lot of time and money?
If you do not feel you can perform well (or at least have a good time) at a major LAN then don't go to one. This may lead to you being dropped from the Academy though. The point is, if you can't perform well at a LAN then you aren't ready to be sponsored. The vVv Academy is a place for you to prove you are ready to be sponsored and once proven you will be rewarded.
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On August 14 2011 06:09 vVvSweep wrote:
If you do not attend any major LANs as defined in the OP then you are not representing vVv in anything important. When someone is looking for a sponsorship it always seems to be this question of "what will you do for me if i represent you?" If this is your thought process then you have likely never been sponsored by a real organization.
And I will not discuss the benefits and support vVv can and/or will provide in a public forum.
Honestly I don't understand why you don't want discuss benefits. Because from your OP it sounds like a very bad deal. You're asking the players to attend weekly meetings, attend multiple LANs at their own expense, attend all clan wars (even if they're not participating), and all practice sessions. On top of that they must do well in monthly qualifiers or they get fired.
And in exchange, all you're offering the players...is some free Steelseries gear? And even then, only after being on the team for 90 days and only when they attend a LAN.
Honestly most people would be better off using that time to work a minimum wage job and buy the gear themselves.
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On August 14 2011 06:58 infussle wrote:
good responses by the OP. I think Sweep makes a very good point on ROI, and what a minority in this thread do not understand is the exact concept of investment and business, especially considering how hard it is for newcomers to the scene to have a piece of the most profitable pie. Although saying that, vVv is an established organisation who have supported the smaller gaming communties out there, and for that, they have my respect.
Any project reguarding development of upcoming talent needs as much support as possible
The issue is not ROI for vVv but ROI for the players.
You have to pay thousands of dollars and what do you get in return, vVv training wheel tags. You have the potential to join vVv but it isn't stated how one does that. I don't think the academy is some nefarious attempt to have players represent vVv at no cost to the organization but what incentive does vVv have to actually put players on their A team? These people will already be representing vVv but it will come at almost no cost to the organization.
For a high level player to even consider this they need to see how this will actually get them placed on vVv's real team.
The coL academy which is similar to this says this in regard to actually joining complexity.
"Each CA member will execute a 9 month option contract with compLexity Gaming. If said option is exercised, the member will be given a full pro gamer contract and a new gaming computer from ORIGIN PC."
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On August 14 2011 07:04 templar rage wrote:
How do you define "doing well in LANs" because, to be perfectly honestly, I can't remember a single notable result posted in a LAN by a single member of your current team.
hahaha good question
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On August 14 2011 07:04 jupidar wrote:
Does vVv pay for its sponsored players to go to MLG's, etc?
I can not discuss the benefits towards our team.
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On August 14 2011 07:04 templar rage wrote:
How do you define "doing well in LANs" because, to be perfectly honestly, I can't remember a single notable result posted in a LAN by a single member of your current team.
Seriously, Titan and Murder are almost unarguably the best players on vVv and all they've done is do good in clanwars and do "sorta ok" at MLG.
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Is there a age restriction for the academy? I don't think minors would be able to afford going to major lans unless they are in their area.
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EPT
