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On August 12 2011 11:47 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 11:24 Boomy123 wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...
I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself... On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees. Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000. So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel. Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play. How is this any different than players who don't win money at other tournaments? Look at EG at MLG Anaheim. They didn't have one player win any money. Yet they still paid how much money to go to MLG. Look at TL. Huk is the only player who won money ($500). That didn't cover his cost to fly over, but you don't hear TL bitching about it. Not to mention every other player of theirs that didn't make any money. You are never guaranteed to walk away from a tournament with winnings. Thats why teams use things like ROI to justify sending their players to these tournaments. Teams realize that by going to these events they gain fans, exposure, notariety, and so on. Because most korean teams have little sponsors and could not afford to fly their players around at their leisure. Only a handful of koreans gain enough money to spend for themselves.
Well then the Korean teams need to get those sponsors. Thats my point. We have foreign teams sending their players all over the world and more players walk away with nothing than the ones who win anything. Quite frankly even if NASL covers the travel cost and gets rid of the deposit, Korean teams CANNOT rely on tournaments paying for a handful of their players to play in them.
Korean teams shouldn't be relying on NASL to pay for everything. If they were, then they should not have attempted to qualify or accepted the positions.
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Well I guess now it will truly be the NORTH AMERICAN starleague. I doubt that the regular season will draw any viewers, lol
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On August 12 2011 11:49 firalol wrote:
That's fine, they can stay in Korea and fight over 300$ or w/e it is for code a. I wouldn't be surprised to see more Koreans jump ship to teams that will actually pay for them to go to events.
true this
sometimes Korean decisions mystify me.
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Wow... well, shEt. Korean teams need to read more fine print? Im actually not so surprised given the recent drama of player contracts and money problems. Unfortunately, money is what makes things happen. Go NASL for being so lenient and forgiving.
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On August 12 2011 11:48 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:47 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:On August 12 2011 11:31 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 11:24 Boomy123 wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...
I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself... On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees. Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000. So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel. Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play. How is this any different than players who don't win money at other tournaments? Look at EG at MLG Anaheim. They didn't have one player win any money. Yet they still paid how much money to go to MLG. Look at TL. Huk is the only player who won money ($500). That didn't cover his cost to fly over, but you don't hear TL bitching about it. Not to mention every other player of theirs that didn't make any money. You are never guaranteed to walk away from a tournament with winnings. Thats why teams use things like ROI to justify sending their players to these tournaments. Teams realize that by going to these events they gain fans, exposure, notariety, and so on. Because most korean teams have little sponsors and could not afford to fly their players around at their leisure. Only a handful of koreans gain enough money to spend for themselves. it's funny how his example was EG, which is probably the most financially sponsored team.
And even then its not like EG flies all their players to foreign events anyways so his example was not really that good IMO.
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On August 12 2011 11:49 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:48 Gheed wrote:
So for strong Code B players like Puma, what's the point of even being on a Korean team at all? So you can practice your ass off only for your team to not send you to a $40k tournament where most of the travel is covered? It's no wonder they want to join foreign teams. for the same reason IdrA is on an American team and is no longer living in Korea: because he lives in America and wants to play in American tournaments. Korean people have lives and families in Korea. They aren't just progaming robots.
except idras getting paid a hefty salary, he has a point, NASL is a sick opportunity for code B koreans, and code B koreans are basically better then the best foreigners
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On August 12 2011 11:47 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:44 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 11:42 eggs wrote:On August 12 2011 11:39 ryan1894 wrote:
1) Theres a very high chance of a korean winning
2) They are being paid to go there
3) The risk is a few hundred $ per player, and the reward (which is highly likely due to skill differential) is $40k+.
Conclusion: There is little to no risk for newer korean players who havent played on TV in Korea to experience a live audience, and there is a very high chance for the grand prize to go to a Korean, and that would pay for everybody's tickets. Maybe they think this is like a small LAN held in someone's house. They came out to MLG and that was a $5k prize MLG is a weekend tournament that GSL specifically schedules around, where the winners have a chance to get GSL Code S and Code A spots as well as placement into the MLG championship which is a much larger prize pool. and clearly NASL doesn't have a Sundance of their own. The MLG Championship isn't a larger pool Doesn´t MLG cover the travel expenses from the Koreans anyways?
Of the invites, but do you think when at the end of the year and all these Korean players have seeded positions into the championship, is MLG gonna be paying their travel costs? I highly doubt it and seriously hope not.
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On August 12 2011 11:47 longdivision wrote:
I don't think this is an unreasonable stance for the Korean teams and players to take. Consider this: 9-16th place Korean finishers end up earning no money after travel expenses, give up a extra week of their time and suffer jet lag. It's literally better to finish in the bottom 34 than to place 9-16th for them.
What's that for an attitude.
If you're a professional player, you have to have the mindset that you're the absolute best, and if you
participate in a tournament, you have to be sure to win it.
You need that confidence.
If you have the opportunity to win 40-50k dollars, with your expenses being paid, in exchange for
possible jetlag and "a week of their time it seems outright dumb to let that chance slip.
A week of their time, meaning practice time. Why do they practice again?
To become the best, for honor, and for the possibility to win huge prizes.
If you don't want to sacrifice as much to get that chance, you have ABSOLUTELY no right to call yourself a professional in my opinion. Then you're a spoiled brat.
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On August 12 2011 11:50 Jonas  wrote:Well I guess now it will truly be the NORTH AMERICAN starleague. I doubt that the regular season will draw any viewers, lol
Believe me it will soon be European League
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On August 12 2011 11:49 firalol wrote:
That's fine, they can stay in Korea and fight over 300$ or w/e it is for code a. I wouldn't be surprised to see more Koreans jump ship to teams that will actually pay for them to go to events.
I would be. Most Koreans are very loyal to their friends, teams, and coaches. The few cases we've had recently with PuMa and FruitDealer are the rare extreme cases.
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On August 12 2011 11:51 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:49 eggs wrote:On August 12 2011 11:48 Gheed wrote:
So for strong Code B players like Puma, what's the point of even being on a Korean team at all? So you can practice your ass off only for your team to not send you to a $40k tournament where most of the travel is covered? It's no wonder they want to join foreign teams. for the same reason IdrA is on an American team and is no longer living in Korea: because he lives in America and wants to play in American tournaments. Korean people have lives and families in Korea. They aren't just progaming robots. except idras getting paid a hefty salary, he has a point, NASL is a sick opportunity for code B koreans, and code B koreans are basically better then the best foreigners
Wasn't IdrA getting that salary in Korea, because he was still representing EG? Yet he still chose to withdraw from GSL Code S and move back to America.
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On August 12 2011 11:48 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:41 thedz wrote:On August 12 2011 11:39 MG.AtRi wrote:
Definitely disappointing news. I myself do not know the cost of traveling from Korea to the US, but it seems like 2000$ is more than enough to cover a weekend. I understand the Koreans reasons for not wanting when the amount was 500$, but they can't manage for 2k? Really? This seems unreasonable to me... I guess the Koreans are to cool for us NA Scum -_- $1k. The other $1k is prize money. This is like your employer asking you hey, you did well, we want to award you with some bonus money that you can get by winning in a tournament. But here's the thing: you have to give us part of your last paycheck if you want to participate in the bonus money competition. Great analogy, tournaments are like work, you get paid for showing up ? No, the point is that even if they lose first round they do not have to pay from their own pocket and they have chance of actually winning money. This is actually better than most tournaments.
exactly. MLG pays for their expenses I guess, but how much did choya earn at Anaheim? Showing up to a tournament should not guarantee a pay day. they would have all expenses paid for a few days to travel to the U.S. for a chance to win a shit ton of money....what's the problem here?
what a load of shit.
well, w/e, now It'll be like MLG with a few Koreans and mostly foreign competition. fuck the organization that nixed their participation. GL NASL, i'll still watch.
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On August 12 2011 11:51 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:49 eggs wrote:On August 12 2011 11:48 Gheed wrote:
So for strong Code B players like Puma, what's the point of even being on a Korean team at all? So you can practice your ass off only for your team to not send you to a $40k tournament where most of the travel is covered? It's no wonder they want to join foreign teams. for the same reason IdrA is on an American team and is no longer living in Korea: because he lives in America and wants to play in American tournaments. Korean people have lives and families in Korea. They aren't just progaming robots. except idras getting paid a hefty salary, he has a point, NASL is a sick opportunity for code B koreans, and code B koreans are basically better then the best foreigners
HuK is still considered a foreigner and he's in Code S.
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This is completely unreasonable by the Korean teams. With this amount of funding by the NASL, the Koreans would pay very little to send their players abroad, certainly less than 1000$/head (if anything at all). I have difficulty believing the teams are THAT broke. This doesn't smell right.
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On August 12 2011 11:52 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:50 Jonas wrote:Well I guess now it will truly be the NORTH AMERICAN starleague. I doubt that the regular season will draw any viewers, lol Believe me it will soon be European League
Meh, not really. Looking at IPL, where basically everyone qualified on their own (And of the four that didn't, Axslav is the only one who was a question if he would), You had about 20 Europeans and 15 Americans. More European's, and for the most part they would do better, but the North American presence would still be quite strong.
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I'm not really sure what to think of this quite yet.. As pointed out already, it seems that the $2,000 would have been more than enough to cover the costs. I'm very interested to hear what the Korean players themselves have to say about this, having been denied the chance to win a lot more money.. I hope they will be able to speak their minds, and not have to hold back because of their team's decisions.
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I never thought I'd say this, but after the EG Puma blowup and now this, Korean managers seem to be behaving very... amateur. Very disappointing.
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GSL=Real Tournament/True Competition/E-Sport
MLG=Real Tournament/True Cometition/E-Sport
DH=Real Tournament/True Competition/E-Sport
IEM=Real Tournament/True Competition/E-Sport
NASL=ill try to watch it and support it even though i know what am watching isn't really that great.
User was warned for this post
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I'd like to see the official response of sc2con before making an opinion.
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EPT
