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Korean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 64

Forum Index > SC2 General
3573 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 62 63 64 65 66 179 Next
Gao Xi
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Hong Kong5178 Posts
August 12 2011 02:45 GMT
#1261
On August 12 2011 11:41 Vul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:35 Gao Xi wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:33 Xx26Vanek26xX wrote:
still many good players from Slayers MVP IM and Zenex they could get to replace them

Except MVP IM Zenex are part of sc2con?
Slayers Boxer withdrew for similar reasons, so no one else from slayers will be participating.


I don't think its known why Boxer withdrew, is it?

Pretty sure there was a nasl post saying that Slayers/Boxer withdrew for similar reasons to sc2con
龔智禮 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ CJ NATION
bLuR
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada625 Posts
August 12 2011 02:45 GMT
#1262
If the OP is 100% true then thats just greed ...
eggs
Profile Joined August 2010
1011 Posts
August 12 2011 02:45 GMT
#1263
On August 12 2011 11:44 godemperor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:36 thedz wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:35 Selkie wrote:
This is going to sound terrible but...

I honestly don't care, since Slayers is still in. It's the only reason I watch.


SlayerS are out. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750&currentpage=36#710

No oGs, Startale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime and now SLAYERS!!! NOOOO!!! WHY!!! Bought the ticket already, guess there's no way to refund is there? Wish I knew this before my purchase, no Slayers was just the last straw.


If NASL had any spine they would offer to refund pre-purchased tickets given the recent withdrawal of star players.
Recoil
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States276 Posts
August 12 2011 02:46 GMT
#1264
On August 12 2011 11:44 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:42 eggs wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:39 ryan1894 wrote:
1) Theres a very high chance of a korean winning
2) They are being paid to go there
3) The risk is a few hundred $ per player, and the reward (which is highly likely due to skill differential) is $40k+.

Conclusion: There is little to no risk for newer korean players who havent played on TV in Korea to experience a live audience, and there is a very high chance for the grand prize to go to a Korean, and that would pay for everybody's tickets. Maybe they think this is like a small LAN held in someone's house. They came out to MLG and that was a $5k prize


MLG is a weekend tournament that GSL specifically schedules around, where the winners have a chance to get GSL Code S and Code A spots as well as placement into the MLG championship which is a much larger prize pool.

and clearly NASL doesn't have a Sundance of their own.

The MLG Championship isn't a larger pool


The national championship is a bigger pool the rest of the circuit u are correct is really small
BoxersGosuGarden
Profile Joined April 2011
Philippines155 Posts
August 12 2011 02:47 GMT
#1265
On August 12 2011 11:31 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:24 Boomy123 wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...

I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself...


On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees.


Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000.

So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel.


Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play.


How is this any different than players who don't win money at other tournaments? Look at EG at MLG Anaheim. They didn't have one player win any money. Yet they still paid how much money to go to MLG. Look at TL. Huk is the only player who won money ($500). That didn't cover his cost to fly over, but you don't hear TL bitching about it. Not to mention every other player of theirs that didn't make any money.

You are never guaranteed to walk away from a tournament with winnings. Thats why teams use things like ROI to justify sending their players to these tournaments. Teams realize that by going to these events they gain fans, exposure, notariety, and so on.

Because most korean teams have little sponsors and could not afford to fly their players around at their leisure. Only a handful of koreans gain enough money to spend for themselves.
zerg sad
longdivision
Profile Joined December 2010
United States170 Posts
August 12 2011 02:47 GMT
#1266
I don't think this is an unreasonable stance for the Korean teams and players to take. Consider this: 9-16th place Korean finishers end up earning no money after travel expenses, give up a extra week of their time and suffer jet lag. It's literally better to finish in the bottom 34 than to place 9-16th for them.

Overall, in my unqualified opinion, players don't receive enough compensation for the time they put into NASL. 17-50th finishing players get no money (and are subject to fines if they don't show up for games even if they have no chance to make top 16) for 9 weeks of play even though NASL makes money off of broadcasting their games.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 12 2011 02:47 GMT
#1267
On August 12 2011 11:44 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:42 eggs wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:39 ryan1894 wrote:
1) Theres a very high chance of a korean winning
2) They are being paid to go there
3) The risk is a few hundred $ per player, and the reward (which is highly likely due to skill differential) is $40k+.

Conclusion: There is little to no risk for newer korean players who havent played on TV in Korea to experience a live audience, and there is a very high chance for the grand prize to go to a Korean, and that would pay for everybody's tickets. Maybe they think this is like a small LAN held in someone's house. They came out to MLG and that was a $5k prize


MLG is a weekend tournament that GSL specifically schedules around, where the winners have a chance to get GSL Code S and Code A spots as well as placement into the MLG championship which is a much larger prize pool.

and clearly NASL doesn't have a Sundance of their own.

The MLG Championship isn't a larger pool


Doesn´t MLG cover the travel expenses from the Koreans anyways?

"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
godemperor
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium2043 Posts
August 12 2011 02:47 GMT
#1268
On August 12 2011 11:43 whateverpeeps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:41 Hunterai wrote:
Wow, disappointed in the Korean team management.
I understand why they did it, but I can't in good conscience agree with how they did it.
.



Apparently it's not the teams. It's the committee. Apparently, not all of the teams and players agree with the committee's decision according to some posts on Reddit.

But the sc2 con is made up of the coaches from teams, like theWind, gerrad, choya, junwi and others.
eggs
Profile Joined August 2010
1011 Posts
August 12 2011 02:48 GMT
#1269
On August 12 2011 11:47 BoxersGosuGarden wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:31 jmbthirteen wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:24 Boomy123 wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:21 thedz wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:21 88FuZiLeiRo wrote:
Bad for NASL, sad for the e-Sports scenario at all...

I still think the Koreans are VERY wrong at this point, 2000$ for each player, in an e-Sports tournament is too much, more than enough for accomodation and the travel itself...


On August 12 2011 11:19 Brian333 wrote:
I'm not totally sure about this as I'm usually not the one directly buying or arranging the flights I take between Asia and the US but $1000 is definitely not enough and given the circumstances, $2000 might not be nearly enough either when including hotel fees.


Keep in mind that it's a $1000 stipend plus $1000 prize. And the ticket alone will almost certainly be more than $1000.

So they'd be essentially be using their own money (earned from over 9 weeks of pool play) to help pay for travel.


Basically meaning, if they're lucky they'll break even after 2 months of playing. It's a waste of their time and money to play.


How is this any different than players who don't win money at other tournaments? Look at EG at MLG Anaheim. They didn't have one player win any money. Yet they still paid how much money to go to MLG. Look at TL. Huk is the only player who won money ($500). That didn't cover his cost to fly over, but you don't hear TL bitching about it. Not to mention every other player of theirs that didn't make any money.

You are never guaranteed to walk away from a tournament with winnings. Thats why teams use things like ROI to justify sending their players to these tournaments. Teams realize that by going to these events they gain fans, exposure, notariety, and so on.

Because most korean teams have little sponsors and could not afford to fly their players around at their leisure. Only a handful of koreans gain enough money to spend for themselves.


it's funny how his example was EG, which is probably the most financially sponsored team.
Icekommander
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada483 Posts
August 12 2011 02:48 GMT
#1270
On August 12 2011 11:44 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:42 eggs wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:39 ryan1894 wrote:
1) Theres a very high chance of a korean winning
2) They are being paid to go there
3) The risk is a few hundred $ per player, and the reward (which is highly likely due to skill differential) is $40k+.

Conclusion: There is little to no risk for newer korean players who havent played on TV in Korea to experience a live audience, and there is a very high chance for the grand prize to go to a Korean, and that would pay for everybody's tickets. Maybe they think this is like a small LAN held in someone's house. They came out to MLG and that was a $5k prize


MLG is a weekend tournament that GSL specifically schedules around, where the winners have a chance to get GSL Code S and Code A spots as well as placement into the MLG championship which is a much larger prize pool.

and clearly NASL doesn't have a Sundance of their own.

The MLG Championship isn't a larger pool



It is a bigger pool but not by a lot (relatively speaking) 120,000$ for MLG Providence National Championship, 100,000$ for NASL
Time Flies like an arrow. Fruit Flies like a banana.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
August 12 2011 02:48 GMT
#1271
On August 12 2011 11:45 eggs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:44 godemperor wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:36 thedz wrote:
On August 12 2011 11:35 Selkie wrote:
This is going to sound terrible but...

I honestly don't care, since Slayers is still in. It's the only reason I watch.


SlayerS are out. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750&currentpage=36#710

No oGs, Startale, WeMadeFox, TSL, Prime and now SLAYERS!!! NOOOO!!! WHY!!! Bought the ticket already, guess there's no way to refund is there? Wish I knew this before my purchase, no Slayers was just the last straw.


If NASL had any spine they would offer to refund pre-purchased tickets given the recent withdrawal of star players.


why? they never promised you that certain players would be in the tournament when you purchased the ticket.
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
August 12 2011 02:48 GMT
#1272
So for strong Code B players like Puma, what's the point of even being on a Korean team at all? So you can practice your ass off only for your team to not send you to a $40k tournament where most of the travel is covered? It's no wonder they want to join foreign teams.
prOxi.Beater
Profile Joined December 2008
Denmark626 Posts
August 12 2011 02:48 GMT
#1273
I would much rather have a few select Koreans participate in the league than all of the best Koreans to be honest. Having Koreans in the NASL causes a lot of time-zone and lag issues which are bad for the players, so seeing a big chunk of the Koreans drop out is actually something that I am happy to see. They're kind of doing it for the wrong reason though, and it doesn't seem like the players have had much of a say in the matter. Seems like the Korean SC2Con kind of screwed over their players here by coming up with high demands so late.
Nobody beats the Beater
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
August 12 2011 02:48 GMT
#1274
On August 12 2011 11:41 thedz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 11:39 MG.AtRi wrote:
Definitely disappointing news. I myself do not know the cost of traveling from Korea to the US, but it seems like 2000$ is more than enough to cover a weekend. I understand the Koreans reasons for not wanting when the amount was 500$, but they can't manage for 2k? Really? This seems unreasonable to me... I guess the Koreans are to cool for us NA Scum -_-


$1k. The other $1k is prize money. This is like your employer asking you hey, you did well, we want to award you with some bonus money that you can get by winning in a tournament. But here's the thing: you have to give us part of your last paycheck if you want to participate in the bonus money competition.

Great analogy, tournaments are like work, you get paid for showing up ? No, the point is that even if they lose first round they do not have to pay from their own pocket and they have chance of actually winning money. This is actually better than most tournaments.
Drock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States305 Posts
August 12 2011 02:49 GMT
#1275
Honestly, I'm kinda excited by this. I watch the GSL every season to see koreans play(and it's great). I'm stoked to have the NASL and be able to watch mostly foreigners play. I guess I can identify better with the foreign players and I'd like to see one win for a change.
I kinda miss Idra...
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 12 2011 02:49 GMT
#1276
On August 12 2011 11:47 longdivision wrote:
I don't think this is an unreasonable stance for the Korean teams and players to take. Consider this: 9-16th place Korean finishers end up earning no money after travel expenses, give up a extra week of their time and suffer jet lag. It's literally better to finish in the bottom 34 than to place 9-16th for them.

Overall, in my unqualified opinion, players don't receive enough compensation for the time they put into NASL. 17-50th finishing players get no money (and are subject to fines if they don't show up for games even if they have no chance to make top 16) for 9 weeks of play even though NASL makes money off of broadcasting their games.


Ya, this is probably an issue for most of the European players too
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
eggs
Profile Joined August 2010
1011 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-12 02:50:28
August 12 2011 02:49 GMT
#1277
On August 12 2011 11:48 Gheed wrote:
So for strong Code B players like Puma, what's the point of even being on a Korean team at all? So you can practice your ass off only for your team to not send you to a $40k tournament where most of the travel is covered? It's no wonder they want to join foreign teams.


for the same reason IdrA is on an American team and is no longer living in Korea: because he lives in America and wants to play in American tournaments.

Korean people have lives and families in Korea. They aren't just progaming robots.
firalol
Profile Joined March 2010
United States51 Posts
August 12 2011 02:49 GMT
#1278
That's fine, they can stay in Korea and fight over 300$ or w/e it is for code a. I wouldn't be surprised to see more Koreans jump ship to teams that will actually pay for them to go to events.
HeroHenry
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1723 Posts
August 12 2011 02:50 GMT
#1279
So are they going to be replaced by mediocre foreigners?
BoxersGosuGarden
Profile Joined April 2011
Philippines155 Posts
August 12 2011 02:50 GMT
#1280
Isn't the NASL conflicting with the GS(T)L/MLG schedule? Correct me if I am wrong.
zerg sad
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