EPTKorean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 67
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RusHXceL
United States1004 Posts
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BoxersGosuGarden
Philippines155 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:04 Dr.Sin wrote: So what is this SC2con anyway? Is this the response to the whole PuMa fiasco? I seem to have missed something. The way they handled this was grossly unprofessional, the fact they'd turn down this generous an offer just makes me wonder if they were approaching this in good faith. SC2Con is the players association for SC2 players in South Korea. They have been around since the GSL Open Seasons to support the players against ruthless organization abuse. | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On top of that, if a Korean goes to NASL and loses right off the bat, then they don't make any money at all, and even lose money. Whereas if they stay in Korea they are guaranteed to make money, regardless. They are probably also using this as an excuse because they'd rather their players play in GSL instead of NASL. I think that in the future this decision will possibly be overturned after the NASL gains even MORE popularity and even MORE prize money. Edit: On August 12 2011 11:59 Modeath wrote: This korean commitee sc2con is a joke. Korean teams should be able to choose for themselfs and not have kespa 2.0 running there lives and telling them what they can and cant do. Big blow to nasl and even worse blow to the koreans image which now makes them look like greedy evil people. I mean really 2k guarenteed if you make it there and thats not enough?. It really isn't enough when they are making a living out of SC2 and traveling to compete in NASL means either making very little money or losing money. If they end up taking home only $2000, then they have to go back home with less money in their pocket than when they left. Competing in NASL would be fun for them cause they get to travel, but it's like going to Vegas. Gambling in Vegas is fun and all, but at the end of the day, you might end up losing out. At the GSL, they automatically make money, no 'ifs' or 'buts' about it. So what's the smarter/safer choice here? | ||
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Windows 7
United States236 Posts
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longdivision
United States170 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:52 Elefanto wrote: What's that for an attitude. If you're a professional player, you have to have the mindset that you're the absolute best, and if you participate in a tournament, you have to be sure to win it. You need that confidence. If you have the opportunity to win 40-50k dollars, with your expenses being paid, in exchange for possible jetlag and "a week of their time it seems outright dumb to let that chance slip. A week of their time, meaning practice time. Why do they practice again? To become the best, for honor, and for the possibility to win huge prizes. If you don't want to sacrifice as much to get that chance, you have ABSOLUTELY no right to call yourself a professional in my opinion. Then you're a spoiled brat. They already put in 9 weeks of effort. It's not unreasonable to expect some reward if you finish in the top 16 and have to take a week of your time and fly around the world. If NASL can't make the playoff profitable for half their players, they should just cut to a top 8. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:03 BoxersGosuGarden wrote: Easier said than done. SC2 in Korea is stuck in a loop because they need to spend money to make money. Well then they need to either spend the money for their players to go to NASL or don't allow their players to qualify and then pull them out of the tournament when its already started (which is the worst thing about this). | ||
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:05 BoxersGosuGarden wrote: SC2Con is the players association for SC2 players in South Korea. They have been around since the GSL Open Seasons to support the players against ruthless organization abuse. I guess I missed the part where they've been supporting players against ruthless organization abuse all this time (or now for that matter). | ||
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Saraf
United States160 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:03 BoxersGosuGarden wrote: Easier said than done. SC2 in Korea is stuck in a loop because they need to spend money to make money. That's not just SC2, though, that's business. You have to spend money to make money. | ||
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:06 longdivision wrote: They already put in 9 weeks of effort. It's not unreasonable to expect some reward if you finish in the top 16 and have to take a week of your time and fly around the world. If NASL can't make the playoff profitable for half their players, they should just cut to a top 8. What about every other tournament in the world? | ||
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:05 BoxersGosuGarden wrote: SC2Con is the players association for SC2 players in South Korea. They have been around since the GSL Open Seasons to support the players against ruthless organization abuse. SC2 Conference President, Won Jong Wook (StarTale's Manager) SC2Con members - Manager of oGs Park Sang Ik (  TheWinD), Manager of Prime Park Wea Shik (Gerrard), Manager of MVP Choi Yoon Sang, Manager of NSHoseo Park Yung Sik, Manager of FXOKorea Lee Hyung Seop ( Choya), Manager of ZeNEX Yoon Hee Won, Manager of IM Kang Dong Hoon and the President of SC2 Players Association Park Gyung Lak (Junwi).Only team not in SC2CON is slayers it seems. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:06 longdivision wrote: They already put in 9 weeks of effort. It's not unreasonable to expect some reward if you finish in the top 16 and have to take a week of your time and fly around the world. If NASL can't make the playoff profitable for half their players, they should just cut to a top 8. They knew all the prize money and everything before qualifying. They shouldn't have expected things to change and let their players qualify. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On the other hand, making them play at stupid hours would mess with their odds at GSL. Seems to me like the teams should support the players who want to do it. | ||
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Hatsu
United Kingdom474 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:47 longdivision wrote: I don't think this is an unreasonable stance for the Korean teams and players to take. Consider this: 9-16th place Korean finishers end up earning no money after travel expenses, give up a extra week of their time and suffer jet lag. It's literally better to finish in the bottom 34 than to place 9-16th for them. Overall, in my unqualified opinion, players don't receive enough compensation for the time they put into NASL. 17-50th finishing players get no money (and are subject to fines if they don't show up for games even if they have no chance to make top 16) for 9 weeks of play even though NASL makes money off of broadcasting their games. I agree with this. Also, I would like to hear the Korean side of the story before I form an opinion. | ||
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sc2guy
291 Posts
2) Everybody should take the news with grain of salt (remember recent TSL incident?). From the way the announcement is made, it seems to me that NASL is in a hurry to blame the Koreans for being demanding and unaccommodating. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On August 12 2011 08:06 NASL.tv wrote: After many hours spent working with our sponsors and writing proposals, it is with our great displeasure to announce that Koreans from oGs, Startale, WeMadeFox, TSL, and Prime will not participate in the NASL. >> Not a good way to start off the topic. Spending many hours = lots of time wasted due to Korean's withdrawal, making NASL angry. At the very beginning of the first season, all players and team managers were sent a rule set and contract that outlined exactly how the league would work and what the NASL would provide to its players. The NASL agreed to provide a $500 travel stipend to each player who advanced to the Grand Finals, in addition to shuttle service to and from the airport and venue. This contract was signed by all players and team managers. >> Irrelevant because from season 1. We made the offer to all teams and players that we could handle hotel booking and travel (to and from the airport) for the Grand Finals and subtract those prices from player travel stipends. Almost every player took us up on this offer. The week before the Grand Finals, Koreans expressed difficulty paying for their travel, and asked us to buy their plane tickets. We solved this problem by offering to buy their tickets and subtract the cost from prize winnings and whatever was left of the stipend. >> Nice gesture from NASL but is irrelevant again. In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties]. >> Okay, via Mr Chae, they made their conditions for continuing their participation in NASL season 2. Note how I avoided the use of the word 'demands'. I do not see anything wrong with making those requests. In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000 per player in addition to the minimum prize of $500. Unfortunately, we were notified August 9th (our 2nd day of filming) that this offer was unacceptable, and that Koreans were withdrawing from the league. We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation. >> In the earlier paragraph you say "In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae" bla bla bla... this was well ahead of Season 2 starting. Then NASL proceeded to continue filming when the issue was not settled (notified August 9th - our 2nd day of filming). I really wonder who's fault this is? We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season. >> Not final hour. You chose to ignore the existing issues and started filming. They notified NASL during the prepartion for Season 2. While this does mean that NASL Season 2 will be slightly delayed, we remain steadfast in our commitment to eSports – we will broadcast high quality games every day and bring you some of the very best play the world has to offer. -- North American Star League ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And also, although SlayerS team have similar issues to the teams under SC2Con, because the former had talked to NASL earlier so all is good. However, because the teams under SC2Con have more players in NASL and that will affect NASL plans, I feel they have been brought out for crucifixion. On August 12 2011 09:36 NASL.tv wrote: SlayerS has nothing to do with this at all. We have spoken directly with Jessica many times, and are on great terms with team SlayerS. They let us know a long time ago the issues they had with NASL and we couldn't come to an agreement with them... all is good! 3) There are some people in this thread that really have poor comprehension skills. Mr Chae is just a messenger. Stop putting the blame on him. In addition, spreading rumors like the following is unnecessary. They only encourage a shit storm of accusations. 4) Why is Lrod warned for his post and not Gao Xi on the 2nd page? There should be some consistency from TL mods. On August 12 2011 08:11 Lrod wrote: Guess i wont be watching NASL next season. User was warned for this post On August 12 2011 08:14 Gao Xi wrote: I guess I wont be watching. Unfortunately. Really looking forward to another epic finals. | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves. Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 spot out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad. NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend. Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. | ||
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Haustka
United States221 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:06 jmbthirteen wrote: Well then they need to either spend the money for their players to go to NASL or don't allow their players to qualify and then pull them out of the tournament when its already started (which is the worst thing about this). correct me if im wrong, but didnt NASL want Koreans to come to US in first place? ofc, Koreans do want to come to US also, but from my understanding is that NASL wanted to invite Koreans FIRST right? | ||
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antas
Indonesia300 Posts
IMO NASL did a great job here. | ||
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jj33
802 Posts
On August 12 2011 11:39 Misanthrope wrote: As one man courageously mentioned beforehand, fuck 'em. Seems like these terms were entirely reasonable. Let's see if starving every other league that doesn't pander to the absolute whim of the 'godlike' koreans is the hidden motive here. Wouldn't surprise me that members of the SK SC2 committee would align themselves with GSL and MLG primarily, while using only the tourneys that guarantee total ball-tonguing for exposure, so that they can attempt to create a re-born KeSPA organization What they fail to realize, is that exposure like the NASL is offering their teams, sponsors, and players, has mind-bendingly powerful long-term implications. What a bunch of spoiled children. I repeat, fuck 'em. Brave? Oh please kid, behind the internet you make sweeping generalizations about Koreans over a incident. It says more about you than them. you're a coward and you obviously harbor a hatred for them. | ||
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
"...and bring you some of the very best play the world has to offer." A tournament that includes any professional players at all includes "some of" the larger set of all players. This smacks to me of them trying to avoid admitting that the NASL is nothing without the Koreans. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On August 12 2011 12:06 longdivision wrote: They already put in 9 weeks of effort. It's not unreasonable to expect some reward if you finish in the top 16 and have to take a week of your time and fly around the world. If NASL can't make the playoff profitable for half their players, they should just cut to a top 8. What do the all the players get for training their asses off week after week in order to qualify for Code A? If they don't make it, they have to wait another season. If they make it, they have the chance to win 1'500 and get into code a. Those out in Ro32 gain nothing, those in Ro16 gain another shot a month later to try to win 1'500 or a chance in the up&downs. Compare that to the offer from the NASL. | ||
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