|
On August 12 2011 08:18 Kraznaya wrote:
Nooooooooo.
There goes my chance to ever see MKP live.
Looks like NASL just lost most of its viewers, too. Now it's just IPL with much worse production quality. :|
I don't see why the NASL just took the money out of the prize pool and put it into travel funds for Koreans. I'm sure none of them would've minded, and it's not like non Koreans were going to win the prize pool anyway.
Very sad news ;( But guys lets be honest here. Organizations can't bend the rules just to satisfy the Koreans- its only a portion of the whole scene.
I would disagree that IPL has much worse production quality. They are doing a great work in season 2 and I'm really excited for them.
|
On August 12 2011 09:39 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:37 FliedLice wrote:On August 12 2011 09:36 Fubi wrote:On August 12 2011 09:29 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 09:25 Govou wrote:
as much as it doesn't sound fair, maybe NASL should think about paying up more for every player who's going to be in final.
I can see how it's going to hurt NASL if they dont but I dont see how it's going to hurt NASL much if they do. We would love to guarantee a 100% covered cost to every single player. We have a fixed budget, we're a company that is less than 1 year old and we're trying to do great things. We don't have the VC backing and years of events hosted such as companies like MLG (nor do we have the backing of a major corporation like GOMTV). The offer we made is literally the most we can do with the current budget we have. You'll end up losing a lot of your viewers tho. So the question is, is this loss of revenue still less than if you were to fully cover their cost? Have you considered reducing part of the grand final prize for this? 90% of the people saying "I WILL NEVER WATCH NASL AGAIN AAARRGGGHHH!" will watch anyway, i doubt they'll take a very big blow in their viewer numbers Idra/White-Ra still playing, they should find a way to get Jinro/Destiny (who did participate in qualifiers) in the league and people will still watch (based on their stream numbers, which are crazy...)
Pretty much. They still have the foreign fan favorites and names like Rain and Puma (maybe MC and Nada depending on how SK handles the situation), it's really not as bad as many make it seem like.
|
aaaand I guess I'm not buyin that season pass anymore
sucks but that's what happens
|
This is good news to the "foreigner" participants, at least.
|
Has Catz said anything about this? I´m imagining him sitting in his room, fistpumping at the moment <3
|
On August 12 2011 09:39 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 09:33 OldManZerg wrote:On August 12 2011 09:25 DoomsVille wrote:
This isn't about money. That has been made clear over and over by people in this thread.
This is about one of a few things:
1) Koreans trying to squeeze out NASL so that GSL remains number 1
2) They're pissed off at the EG/PuMa thing and they don't want that to repeat
3) They're pissed off at the hours of play and don't want to go through it again
4) They hate the tournament format for the finals and think its a waste of time
There may be other reasons, but those are the ones I can think of.
What I don't understand is why they went through the trouble of giving NASL an ultimatum. They clearly had no intention of competing to begin with. NASL has basically agreed to cover all travel costs... Bah, you're just speculating. You don't know their minds or motives. Speculation is the only remaining option when what has been announced as the reason doesn't seem quite convincing. If the decision wasn't political in nature, I'm pretty sure sc2con wouldn't be negotiating and players would just drop out one by one on their own and decide not to apply / play.
Again, speculating about things you dont understand is reckless.
|
That's their decision but it's disappointing still, I watched NASL mostly for the Koreans. The additional viewers they brought in would have easily made up for the additional fees to fly them in still, wouldn't it?
|
Koreans are scared that USA is gonna steal all their players...starting with puma =p
|
I know BoxeR withdrew because of the scheduling, they were extremely frustrated with the rigid schedules that they had to play due to live casting of games, which meant they had to play at ridiculous times of night, and then when players would default it was even more frustrating to have to wake up early, stay up for 30-40 minutes while they wait for default times, and then not even play. This combined with trying to struggle to stay in code A/Code S, GSTL, and other foreign tournaments, it's no wonder that they probably were going to withdraw. I mean look at how many people got default walk overs within the first few weeks because they attended dreamhack.
I loved NASL season 1, and it was daunting for me as a customer to keep up with the games. I feel for the players too and it probably just came down to is it going to be worth it, for me to potentially lose out on sleep, and gsl/gstl performance to play in this long season, only to have someone come from the open bracket in 2 weeks time, and win the whole thing.
|
Its a shame that ive lost alot of interest without marineking but gl to NASL!! :D
|
Why do you guys think foreigners make any serious chance of winning the NASL. Puma and Rain etc are still in it.
|
Well it seems like NASL was being more than reasonable here. Kinda hard to imagine the Koreans wouldn't accept the terms provided, since there seemed to be NO risk involved if you make it to the finals.
Between this and the whole TSL-EG thing, I'm beginning to feel like the Koreans are being a little too difficult with their business practices. And that's really a shame, because things seemed to be going so well at first.
|
I personally prefer watching non Korean pros play
|
if korean teams are having hard time securing travel expenses, I understand. At the end of the days, you gotta pay the bills.
However, pulling out at the last minute was bit of dick move.
I'm a korean and I have no problem saying this.
|
The thing that makes the least sense is that korean players like ganzi, DRG, choya, and other non-invitees are willing to go to MLG for a chance to win 5k, and paying for the expenses themselves but this committee doesn''t want any part in the nasl when they are offered 2k per player + and a chance to win 50k.
It's not adding up...
|
+ Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 09:31 D.Devil wrote:
This whole story is really interesting – it has so many thought-provoking aspects to it. My initial thoughts:
1. Do Korean teams have the right approach towards marketing?
It's no news to me that the Korean teams aren't superior to Western ones in terms of business and marketing. However, this whole event says more about their future potential than about their current stance. It should seem natural to everyone that, with SC2's huge global audience, you should aim to present and market your players globally instead of relying only on Korean exposure. Of course, this isn't an easy task for the SC:BW-like Korean teams, but if they haven't yet realized that they need to take on this challenge if they want to stay competitive – then there's something seriously going wrong.
Now, please don't get me wrong: I'm aware that the NASL is only one event of many and it has some issues that make it less attractive to Koreans – I wouldn't even argue if one of the Korean team managers claimed that the audience numbers don't justify backing the NASL. However, Koreans are also pretty rarely seen at other non-Korean events – basically, it's mostly only invited players who show up, with few exceptions. Therefore, I must assume that this observation is true regardless of what exactly happened here.
2. Are the Korean teams good enough at earning money?
Sure, SC2 is having a hard time in South Korea, but nonetheless it simply seems that there is a huge gap between the audience numbers/popularity/success the Korean teams generate and their team budgets. Guess what's going to happen if they fail at securing "appropriate" sponsorships (especially if they negate the importance of the global audience, as mentioned in point 1)? Well, I can assure you none of the top players are going to wear tags like oGs, IM or TSL if that happens (doesn't matter how great their team house practise conditions are).
3. How much influence does the GSL have over the Korean teams?
This being said: We can agree that this whole story sounds kind of weird when being told from NASL's perspective. It makes quite a lot of sense that GOM TV is opposed to the NASL – not only as a direct competitor, but also due to the partnership with MLG. It's also neededless to say that GOM TV has quite a good involvement in the SC2Con and is in a position to influence the teams' decisions strongly. It's not just interesting to see what this means for NASL, but also what it means for other event organizers or the global SC2 structure in general.
4. Is SlayerS going to surpass all other Korean teams soon?
SlayerS is the only Korean team that pays a lot of attention to the global scene and has people working for it who particularly focus on the stuff outside of Korea. It's neither part of the SC2Con and thereby isn't bound to its decisions. This means two things: 1. SlayerS has a lot of potential. 2. There might be a lot of tension between SC2Con and SlayerS, and who knows what consequences that might have.
5. Is this what happens if you're not one of the big players?
The NASL (deservedly) got quite some flack for focusing on the prize money so much instead of building up structures first. Is this already the proof that NASL was too careless? Maybe, I don't know. Let's just point out that neither MLG, nor IEM or DreamHack seem to face similar problems. Could this have been avoided through better correspondance and Korea-targeted business development endeavors? I don't know either. I just know that if I now want to create some huge event which I need to work with Korean teams for, I'd be more than careful. Anyway, it will be really interesting to see what the future holds for NASL. I won't make any predictions at this point, but this could turn out to be really interesting.
6. What role do teams play in SC2 anyway?
In esports' past, teams used to be financially strong market participants which contributed to the esports environment in various ways – and it was pretty much mandatory to be part of a professional team if you wanted to be a successful pro-gamer. Lately, the teams' importance seems to dwindle: There are almost only 1on1 events, the teams usually don't play a huge role, and often the travel expenses are paid for by the organizers anyway. We might be at a crossroads: Either, the teams gather speed and grow to a point at which they are mainly responsible for a player's well-being (and get more attention) – or the events will be forced to work with the players more closely if they want to make sure that the level of competition stays high. This might result in bad things such as league-exclusive contracts though, and in general I'm much more of a fan of the strong-teams model because the more diversified the market is, the better.
Good post. But people should remember that Broodwar is going through a financial crisis right now, with rumors of teams closing down (MBC? Wemadefox?) and some problems getting sponsorship (OSL took a lot). Yet, they are several times more popular than SC2, and well more organized. Point is RTS gaming is on decline in Korea, and SC2 failed to inherit the flame. Just compare the sponsors for BW and SC2: korean based multinationals for BW and western multinationals (Pepsi, Cocacola, Intel) for SC2. it is clever move for them, with the money of a national filial, they are gaining global exposure, but this kind of deal work for international tournaments, not for teams. There's little local support for SC2. The korean teams seem to be simply poor.
|
Mr.Chae deserves much credit in trying to solve problems.
After giving this incident a little more thought, it reminds me of: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225324
where GOM/Mr.Chae is confused by foreign teams do not want to participate in the GSTL.
Why don't Koreans want to participate in NASL when the investment is much less than staying in Kr for a month?
Rolling back a few months: Korean players, without the influence of SC2Con, voluntarily participated in the NASL and other foreign tournaments. So the incentive should be there. By acting as an union SC2Con may have also ruined the fun of those who are willing to participate at their own expense.
Are teams such as IM/MVP/Slayers part of SC2Con? They are not listed in the original announcement.
Does NASL know what the Koreans expect? Ie: under what circumstances will the Koreans agree to participate? From the looks of it SC2Con just rejected offers without giving much feedback.
Given the increase in frequency of global tournaments: will it be possible for foreign (or NA based) tournament organizers to sign a sponsorship/business deal with an airline to reduce the cost of travel fares?
|
I actually don't mind...I prefer watching non koreans.
|
theyr just trying to get a better deal. oh well. nasl could use the money to raise the prize pool  . foreigners rock!
|
There has to be more to this than just travel expenses to the grand finals. I can see several other problems that Koreans could have such as times when the games are played, lag, ect...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
