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Wow this thread is getting overrun by a few posters who seem to think that we need to make contracts for every fucking thing in sc2. Sure lets make contracts with the players even before the qualifiers start. As a korean team, lets make contracts with every player that stays at our house, even though they will never sign it, cause we dont have enough money to even pay them and to actually ensure they could stay with us. Sure lets make contracts about everything and every shit i can come up with.
Having only the official information from the viewpoint of the NASL the facts are clear.
Korean teams send their players to the qualifiers, knowing exactly what they would have to pay and what circumstances they would get into (latency, workhours etc.). After their players qualified, they want to renegotiate in their favor. NASL gives them a better offer. Not enough for the korean teams, so that the start of the actual season is screwed up, by the very late decision of the SC2Con.
Post by the likes of Tripper, even though he puts a lot of work into repeating his own assumptions over and over again, do not really adress the issues that the OP made out to be a problem. (btw. google what your name means in german. very funny indeed). No you cannot make a contract for fucking everything or otherwise no tournament would ever get started, or take 1 year until all the organisational parts are dealt with.
In other threads people were talking so highly of the korean ethics and their moral standards when it comes to business. And especially mentioned that things are done differently in Korea. I can see that now *waving the sarcasm sign*. Very funny comments in retrospect. Basicly it comes down to a few things no matter where you do your business, relationships, influence and money. So from a business standpoint i am not suprised by how the korean side decided. As a fan though, i am deeply disappointed.
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Everyone should just view NASL season 2 as if the very best are playing, that way the incentive is way too high not to go as a Korean player next season. FTW NASL
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Maybe it is time for the organizers to set an eye on teh LA players and give some of them the chance to show their skills. It's not the end of the world seeing Koreans run away and decline this awesome offer, and we clearly need some more focus on other players. Koreans were always the best, but not always the only players to watch. There are many other players awaiting for a chance.
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PumaPete United States. August 13 2011 02:58. Posts 2
nodicaL Canada. August 13 2011 02:35. Posts 2
epb1982 August 13 2011 02:15. Posts 2
Kaane Sweden. August 13 2011 01:32. Posts 7
Is it just me or are there an abnomally large number of 2 post accounts in this thread, the majority of which promote a korean free NASL?
This is just the last couple of pages, I noticed it ealier but im not counting all 148 o.o
edited: Psypod Brazil. August 13 2011 03:05. Posts 8
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@BlueFlames
It's not about contracts, but SC2 is growing on a proportion that needs to have things to control it. Make it an official sport like Chess that requires mental skills. When things get to this point, it envolves a lot of money and interests. It goes beyond our silly view of things of mere spectators cheering for the players!
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On August 13 2011 03:07 AdamBanks wrote:
PumaPete United States. August 13 2011 02:58. Posts 2
nodicaL Canada. August 13 2011 02:35. Posts 2
epb1982 August 13 2011 02:15. Posts 2
Kaane Sweden. August 13 2011 01:32. Posts 7
Is it just me or are there an abnomally large number of 2 post accounts in this thread, the majority of which promote a korean free NASL?
This is just the last couple of pages, I noticed it ealier but im not counting all 148 o.o
edited: Psypod Brazil. August 13 2011 03:05. Posts 8
Before that there were a lot of low-count posters proclaiming that nasl is cheating all its korean players and wont pay the money. I guess you get those people in every drama thread for both sides ^^
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On August 13 2011 03:07 AdamBanks wrote:
PumaPete United States. August 13 2011 02:58. Posts 2
nodicaL Canada. August 13 2011 02:35. Posts 2
epb1982 August 13 2011 02:15. Posts 2
Kaane Sweden. August 13 2011 01:32. Posts 7
Is it just me or are there an abnomally large number of 2 post accounts in this thread, the majority of which promote a korean free NASL?
This is just the last couple of pages, I noticed it ealier but im not counting all 148 o.o
edited: Psypod Brazil. August 13 2011 03:05. Posts 8
Oh no they must be racists. Burn them all.
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On August 13 2011 02:48 tripper688 wrote:
Regardless, the issue seems to be the same here as it was there. No contract in place = Potential douchebaggery will probably go unpunished. Until anyone has proof that the Koreans had a binding contract to play in NASL regardless of their terms, you can't actually fault them for doing anything wrong. And as much as it sucks for NASL, they're the ones that have to pick up the pieces because they didn't have the contracts in place.
You don't play in qualifiers for an event you have no interest in attending. People on TL seems to like hiding behind this concept of "contracts" to justify anything.
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On August 13 2011 03:09 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:07 AdamBanks wrote:
PumaPete United States. August 13 2011 02:58. Posts 2
nodicaL Canada. August 13 2011 02:35. Posts 2
epb1982 August 13 2011 02:15. Posts 2
Kaane Sweden. August 13 2011 01:32. Posts 7
Is it just me or are there an abnomally large number of 2 post accounts in this thread, the majority of which promote a korean free NASL?
This is just the last couple of pages, I noticed it ealier but im not counting all 148 o.o
edited: Psypod Brazil. August 13 2011 03:05. Posts 8 Before that there were a lot of low-count posters proclaiming that nasl is cheating all its korean players and wont pay the money. I guess you get those people in every drama thread for both sides ^^
I'm just wondering how many of those accounts are the same person posting their same oppinion over and over x.x
edit: Ok so im guessing psypod is one of psybaba's accounts. Can we get a mod to check that please.
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On August 13 2011 03:09 Psypod wrote:
@BlueFlames
It's not about contracts, but SC2 is growing on a proportion that needs to have things to control it. Make it an official sport like Chess that requires mental skills. When things get to this point, it envolves a lot of money and interests. It goes beyond our silly view of things of mere spectators cheering for the players!
Yeah, but we arent there yet. Chess tournaments, especially those on a large scale that involve qualifiers and the participation of several grandmasters take a very long time to organise and have existed for decades. SC2 is very young and you cant try to grow it, by enforcing contracts that would have to be put out by lawyers that can deliver a binding contract for every player that might be attending. I am not just speaking of the koreans. What about chinese players? You can see how such a process would spread actual tournaments very far apart, dont you. Thats my point. You cannot strangle a growing sport, even before it starts to fully mature and you will need a lot of time and money to do it in a safe way, that could be enforce if need be everywhere around the world.
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On August 13 2011 02:59 BlueFlames wrote:
Wow this thread is getting overrun by a few posters who seem to think that we need to make contracts for every fucking thing in sc2. Sure lets make contracts with the players even before the qualifiers start. As a korean team, lets make contracts with every player that stays at our house, even though they will never sign it, cause we dont have enough money to even pay them and to actually ensure they could stay with us. Sure lets make contracts about everything and every shit i can come up with.
Having only the official information from the viewpoint of the NASL the facts are clear.
Korean teams send their players to the qualifiers, knowing exactly what they would have to pay and what circumstances they would get into (latency, workhours etc.). After their players qualified, they want to renegotiate in their favor. NASL gives them a better offer. Not enough for the korean teams, so that the start of the actual season is screwed up, by the very late decision of the SC2Con.
Post by the likes of Tripper, even though he puts a lot of work into repeating his own assumptions over and over again, do not really adress the issues that the OP made out to be a problem. (btw. google what your name means in german. very funny indeed). No you cannot make a contract for fucking everything or otherwise no tournament would ever get started, or take 1 year until all the organisational parts are dealt with.
In other threads people were talking so highly of the korean ethics and their moral standards when it comes to business. And especially mentioned that things are done differently in Korea. I can see that now *waving the sarcasm sign*. Very funny comments in retrospect. Basicly it comes down to a few things no matter where you do your business, relationships, influence and money. So from a business standpoint i am not suprised by how the korean side decided. As a fan though, i am deeply disappointed.
You basically reiterated what I wrote. It came down to failed negotiations and a business decision. How is that repeating assumptions? The article makes it pretty clear the demands were stated in advance of season 2 production, the demands were not met, Koreans played hardball and left. Given the history between the parties, it's not surprising at all. Enlighten me. What are the problems the OP wants to address and how do you wish to address them? And what are these terrible assumptions that I'm making that are not helping this thread?
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On August 13 2011 03:11 AdamBanks wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:09 BlueFlames wrote:On August 13 2011 03:07 AdamBanks wrote:
PumaPete United States. August 13 2011 02:58. Posts 2
nodicaL Canada. August 13 2011 02:35. Posts 2
epb1982 August 13 2011 02:15. Posts 2
Kaane Sweden. August 13 2011 01:32. Posts 7
Is it just me or are there an abnomally large number of 2 post accounts in this thread, the majority of which promote a korean free NASL?
This is just the last couple of pages, I noticed it ealier but im not counting all 148 o.o
edited: Psypod Brazil. August 13 2011 03:05. Posts 8 Before that there were a lot of low-count posters proclaiming that nasl is cheating all its korean players and wont pay the money. I guess you get those people in every drama thread for both sides ^^ I'm just wondering how many of those accounts are the same person posting their same oppinion over and over x.x
People can get crazy over the Internet where you are anonymous.
.__.
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@AdamBanks
I am not an active member of the forums nor a huge poster, but I surelt keep my eyes on the news as I work and study and love SC2. I'm not promoting a Korean free NASL because IMO they're the best on what they do and for me, Boxer is a legend. Someone that stood by his dream of becoming a progamer and to make a life of it. Hell if I could have done the same.
BUT, it comes to a point in which everything has a limit. NASL offered a $2000,00 prize to the participants (which is more than enough to pay for basic expenses) and they still refused it. They have the right to refuse as Koreans see this game as a profession, a job. Different from us that see it as an entertainment. And there's no doubt why they always get to the finals. So think about business and you'll see that for them, coming to USA to play for a tournament in which they do not get money, won't be a good investment. Sad but true, like I said, SC2 is taking proportions of a true sport, so it's normal to see things like this.
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DIsapointing and somewhat weird to see this from the Korean players. But honestly I don't know why the NASL didn't say aight we'll pay full expenses when they are willing to dish away 2k when a round plane ticket from Seoul to LA is 900 to 1100 dollars. It may be like what people have said before that the Koreans don't want to travell for 12 hours only to get there and play for a half hour. It can be really burning and somewhat useless (since they need to go thru jetlag twice and miss valuable practice time while in the USA). Just my thoughts.
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wowww guess i wont be watching NASL in the future this must suck for them, they might even go down after this season
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On August 13 2011 03:14 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:09 Psypod wrote:
@BlueFlames
It's not about contracts, but SC2 is growing on a proportion that needs to have things to control it. Make it an official sport like Chess that requires mental skills. When things get to this point, it envolves a lot of money and interests. It goes beyond our silly view of things of mere spectators cheering for the players! Yeah, but we arent there yet. Chess tournaments, especially those on a large scale that involve qualifiers and the participation of several grandmasters take a very long time to organise and have existed for decades. SC2 is very young and you cant try to grow it, by enforcing contracts that would have to be put out by lawyers that can deliver a binding contract for every player that might be attending. I am not just speaking of the koreans. What about chinese players? You can see how such a process would spread actual tournaments very far apart, dont you. Thats my point. You cannot strangle a growing sport, even before it starts to fully mature and you will need a lot of time and money to do it in a safe way, that could be enforce if need be everywhere around the world.
I agree with you completely. That doesn't change the circumstances or outcomes of anything that has happened. No matter how much talk there is of good will, it only takes one screwed up tourney, one shady player deal, or one misinformed representative to bring all this up again. Mass contracts obviously aren't viable but the last few months, we've seen the problems that can arise when people try to use this to their advantage. What then, is the solution?
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On August 13 2011 03:14 Psypod wrote:
@AdamBanks
I am not an active member of the forums nor a huge poster, but I surelt keep my eyes on the news as I work and study and love SC2. I'm not promoting a Korean free NASL because IMO they're the best on what they do and for me, Boxer is a legend. Someone that stood by his dream of becoming a progamer and to make a life of it. Hell if I could have done the same.
BUT, it comes to a point in which everything has a limit. NASL offered a $2000,00 prize to the participants (which is more than enough to pay for basic expenses) and they still refused it. They have the right to refuse as Koreans see this game as a profession, a job. Different from us that see it as an entertainment. And there's no doubt why they always get to the finals. So think about business and you'll see that for them, coming to USA to play for a tournament in which they do not get money, won't be a good investment. Sad but true, like I said, SC2 is taking proportions of a true sport, so it's normal to see things like this.
Thank you for taking to time to make a decent post. While I may not agree with your prespective I understand your view. This is a complex and confusing issue as we are still trying to get the entire story.
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This is really unfortunate news indeed. What happens to the qualifying players that lost to koreans in an all-korean remaining part of a bracket?
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On August 13 2011 03:07 AdamBanks wrote:
PumaPete United States. August 13 2011 02:58. Posts 2
nodicaL Canada. August 13 2011 02:35. Posts 2
epb1982 August 13 2011 02:15. Posts 2
Kaane Sweden. August 13 2011 01:32. Posts 7
Is it just me or are there an abnomally large number of 2 post accounts in this thread, the majority of which promote a korean free NASL?
This is just the last couple of pages, I noticed it ealier but im not counting all 148 o.o
edited: Psypod Brazil. August 13 2011 03:05. Posts 8
Cause i don't post much my opinion doesn't matter? Its not about race its about the fact that NASL tried to give them more and they turned it down. I don't think the NASL should suffer because of greedy people.
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On August 13 2011 03:14 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 03:09 Psypod wrote:
@BlueFlames
It's not about contracts, but SC2 is growing on a proportion that needs to have things to control it. Make it an official sport like Chess that requires mental skills. When things get to this point, it envolves a lot of money and interests. It goes beyond our silly view of things of mere spectators cheering for the players! Yeah, but we arent there yet. Chess tournaments, especially those on a large scale that involve qualifiers and the participation of several grandmasters take a very long time to organise and have existed for decades. SC2 is very young and you cant try to grow it, by enforcing contracts that would have to be put out by lawyers that can deliver a binding contract for every player that might be attending. I am not just speaking of the koreans. What about chinese players? You can see how such a process would spread actual tournaments very far apart, dont you. Thats my point. You cannot strangle a growing sport, even before it starts to fully mature and you will need a lot of time and money to do it in a safe way, that could be enforce if need be everywhere around the world.
You can't compare things that were happening 30 years ago to things happening nowadays. Things now grow up faster, a lot faster. Everything is a lot more volatile these days. SC2 is growing up faster and people need to keep it up with this BOOM.
IMO, it won't take long to be having major tournaments offering prizes off our imagination with sponsorships of millions of dollars per year. Can you imagine a hige league in which players can compete for a prize pool of 1 million dollars? Do you think this is a lot of money?
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EPT
