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On August 12 2011 17:45 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:42 Bobster wrote:The big players in the Korean SC2 scene all have the BW history.
They're probably used to getting their way without question as far as international competition (as limited as it was in the BW days) goes. that's what pisses me off. GOM is not KeSPA. They aren't a monopoly, they aren't the best (arguably) and they don't have fair right to do this. I think this is a bad sign for korean teams, sadly enough. It's bad enough that lots of koreans are joining foreign teams.
You are basing ur judgements on misinformed facts.
Gom is not involved in this matter (as countless others have already pointed out), it costs minimum of $1200-1300 for a roundtrip flight from Korea to North America.
They made a demand in the interest of their players - NASL could not meet it.
End of the story.
As for who made the bigger boo-boo, that really depends on ur view.
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Too bad, but I'll still be watching!
<3 nasl
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Cool, even less reasons to watch NASL.
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On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'(
I translated bits from korean's side on the other thread.
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
basically they do not find NASL to be trustworthy (none of koreans received any money including deposits) and on top of that, they do not like the playing condition which is affecting their regular practice and what not.
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On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG.
NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's.
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On August 12 2011 17:47 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 DystopiaX wrote:
Dude the point you're not getting is that GOM had nothing to do with it at all. The SC2 association mentioned in the OP is not GOM, it's the SC2 players' association. Independant, completely separate entities. oooooooooh, okay. I apologize bigtime for that. Damn, now I have to keep watching moletrap. I must be tired, I thought i saw GOM in there somewhere. so what the hell is the SC2 players' association, and what credentials do they have to boss the NASL around?
The SC2 players association is an independant body formed by all the pro Korean teams (voluntarily, mind you) who oversee the transactions between players and teams, etc., and basically make sure that everyone is playing fair. For example, when the whole Fruitdealer/Tester thing happened with them alledgedly not getting their salaries from TSL, the players association was the mediating body who stepped in and first expelled TSL for not upholding their side of the bargain, and then reversing it when they found out it was all a misunderstanding. The important thing to note is that the teams here are regulating themselves and membership is voluntary- SlayerS, for example, chose not to join and so do not participate in the decisions made by the Sc2 association.
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This is an unfortunate turn of events. We lose a lot of excitement without the Koreans.
I don't know about all of the players that compete in NASL (I've usually heard the names, but I don't know much more beyond that). I only really follow a few. As such, a lot of the matches don't particularly interest me. What I do know, however, is that Koreans are almost always favored. As such, with the Koreans thrown in the mix, some of the "unknowns" suddenly become very interesting.
If I see a non-Korean vs a Korean, I now have an underdog to root for even if I've never heard of either player. If the non-Korean wins, I'm more likely to remember their name and look for them later on. Beating a Korean in a big tournament is a good way to establish/expand a players fan-base. Furthermore, as the tournament progresses, and if the Koreans dominate the upper brackets as many expect them to, then the few non-Koreans that have managed to fight through suddenly get a LOT of attention. Then, if all the non-Koreans get knocked out, I know that all the rest of the games are going to be epic.
Too many people just see inviting Koreans as us giving away our prize-pools, but not me. I see higher competition and the potential for a player's career to absolutely blast off.
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A Korean participant is waking up in the middle of the night presumably before the match to warm up, then playing the match with lag, then trying to get to sleep. Imagine if this happens the day of something for the GSL etc. Of course participants know these costs, but when you're doing this for maybe a couple hundred bucks it seems less and less appealing.
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On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's.
Like I stated, for MLG none of the koreans had to pay their way- either MLG, sponsors, or foreign teams picked up the tab. From what the Koreans are saying they have a hard time getting sponsorship money to keep the teams afloat so they can't send all these players. They've also said that the constant schedule changes, along with the fact that they have to wake up at ungodly hours to play their matches, is terrible (although that's not what's at hand here)
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I don't get it. Potential for one of the highest prize pool outside GSL and they shun it? Why do they show up for dreamhack or MLG?
Edit, actually it's higher money than GSL with current exchange rates.
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On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'(
It's not $2000, it's $1000 travel stipend. On top of that, NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. Asking players to take expenses out of their prize money isn't "bending over backwards".
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On August 12 2011 17:52 tdt wrote:
I don't get it. Potential for one of the highest prize pool outside GSL and they shun it? Why do they show up for dreamhack or MLG?
Because they are 3 day events without deposits and with paid travel and expenses. Read the thread...
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On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's.
one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months.
I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass.
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On August 12 2011 17:52 tdt wrote:
I don't get it. Potential for one of the highest prize pool outside GSL and they shun it? Why do they show up for dreamhack or MLG?
Edit, actually it's higher money than GSL with current exchange rates.
You can gain a lot more @ MLG (Code S). Also, both of those tournaments are short and sweet in that they are very limited time commitments.
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On August 12 2011 17:52 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. Like I stated, for MLG none of the koreans had to pay their way- either MLG, sponsors, or foreign teams picked up the tab. From what the Koreans are saying they have a hard time getting sponsorship money to keep the teams afloat so they can't send all these players. They've also said that the constant schedule changes, along with the fact that they have to wake up at ungodly hours to play their matches, is terrible (although that's not what's at hand here)
Then don't sign up for qualifiers. They knew all of this before hand. All this wouldn't matter if they just didn't qualify. You don't wait until you have 14 players in the league and then ask NASL to change everything
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On August 12 2011 17:53 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:52 tdt wrote:
I don't get it. Potential for one of the highest prize pool outside GSL and they shun it? Why do they show up for dreamhack or MLG? Because they are 3 day events without deposits and with paid travel and expenses. Read the thread...
Thanks. I apologize for not reading thread, so long.
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On August 12 2011 17:49 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'( I translated bits from korean's side on the other thread. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=basically they do not find NASL to be trustworthy (none of koreans received any money including deposits) and on top of that, they do not like the playing condition which is affecting their regular practice and what not.
That is a heavy accusation to make. Especially because I find it hard believing it to be true.
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I think another point is that they have bad reputation for letting the players play their matches at 4am and such low production quality.
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if SC2con really want to support the growth of esport then they shouldnt fucked this up.this is bad for
NASL we might not see another seasons.
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On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months. I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass.
If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week!
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EPT
