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On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's.
Koreans play all those games at odd hours and over horrible latency. And sometimes you don't even get to play. It affects your performance in practice and other events. It IS a commitment to the Koreans.
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On August 12 2011 17:50 DystopiaX wrote:
The SC2 players association is an independant body formed by all the pro Korean teams (voluntarily, mind you) who oversee the transactions between players and teams, etc., and basically make sure that everyone is playing fair. For example, when the whole Fruitdealer/Tester thing happened with them alledgedly not getting their salaries from TSL, the players association was the mediating body who stepped in and first expelled TSL for not upholding their side of the bargain, and then reversing it when they found out it was all a misunderstanding. The important thing to note is that the teams here are regulating themselves and membership is voluntary- SlayerS, for example, chose not to join and so do not participate in the decisions made by the Sc2 association.
Very interesting. Thanks for the info!
I don't really understand the need for such an association in the first place. And that just gives me even more reason to love slayers for just saying "no thanks, we don't need a babysitter to play fair."
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On August 12 2011 17:49 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'( I translated bits from korean's side on the other thread. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=basically they do not find NASL to be trustworthy (none of koreans received any money including deposits) and on top of that, they do not like the playing condition which is affecting their regular practice and what not.
I can see how they would hate the playing conditions. Waking up in the middle of the night to play laggy games wouldn't excite me either.
It would be nice if the NASL team could set up a format to accommodate for the players (not just Koreans) to make the match times more reasonable. Considering that the casting are pre-recorded anyway, I don't see why they can't cast them from replays. This would alleviate many of the issues from the players perspective without retracting much from the excitement.
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On August 12 2011 17:55 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:54 fraktoasters wrote:On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. one best of three in the middle of the night. How about you wake up at 4am at night once a week for 3 months and then see how you feel about doing that again for another 3 months. I mean... I remember waking up at 5:30 am once a quarter (every 3 months) during school to sign up for classes and that was a complete pain in the ass. If I was competing for a $100,000 prize pool, I would gladly do it. Look at all the Koreans who stay up all night just to win $100 in the TL Opens each week!
But competing for a 100000 prize pool isn't the same thing as competing for 100000... Also the TL Opens are easier money for the Koreans, even if the 3 months hard work pays off they still have to face other top Koreans, and possibly not make up their money if they lose first round.
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Id just like to point out that after all this talk about who is right or wrong no one has mentioned that the Europeans or non korean international players have not said anything about drawing out.
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On August 12 2011 17:47 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 DystopiaX wrote:
Dude the point you're not getting is that GOM had nothing to do with it at all. The SC2 association mentioned in the OP is not GOM, it's the SC2 players' association. Independant, completely separate entities. oooooooooh, okay. I apologize bigtime for that. Damn, now I have to keep watching moletrap. I must be tired, I thought i saw GOM in there somewhere. so what the hell is the SC2 players' association, and what credentials do they have to boss the NASL around?
They're not bossing anybody around.
Basically, negotiations weren't met on either parties.
Sucks for NASL because they went ahead and started filming, assuming the Koreans would accept the conditions.
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On August 12 2011 17:11 Dexx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 08:34 NASL.tv wrote:On August 12 2011 08:31 masterbreti wrote:
tbh good for the Koreans for sticking to their guns.
Has anyone here auctally tried to caculate the cost of a 1 week trip to cali from seoul and back. its damn expensive. Being almost 3k with hotel and airfare and such. For the chance at $500, which would still lose them $500 if NASL paid 2k.
I can understand why the teams would do this tbh. They are not in a healthy state in Korea and of course they would want people to pay, since they can't temselves. I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that. If this is true, I say fuck them. But I think the reak reason for this is the Puma-EG fallout at NASL. East Asians have sense for being a collective. The collective is way more important than the individual. Thus if you go against one of them you will meet a wall of silence when you try to do business with others, supposed neutrals. This in mind, the Koreans may hold a grudge against NASL and EG and this fallout is just a continuation, a kind of pay back of what happened at the finals. Sure, NASL could not do anything against it, but since their name was involved, they have to suffer from it. I expect something directed against EG too. Maybe not now, but in moth or even years to come. East Asians have long memories when it comes to holding a grudge.
How do you turn this into an anti east asian rant? What's true is the Koreans got tired of playing at ungodly hours with bad latency and having their schedules disrupted for 3 months at a time and when they couldn't get a new contract that solved those issues, they decided not to play. I find it funny how you can fault them but not fault EG for the whole Puma thing. It comes down to the same thing: There was no contract.
On August 12 2011 17:13 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:07 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:03 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 16:57 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 16:53 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 16:48 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 16:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 16:36 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 16:27 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:
[quote]
It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In season 1 the travel stipend was 500 dollars and the prize money for qualifying for the finals was also 500 dollars. NASL bought the tickets for the korean players, removing the ticket price(plus hotel/food/travel) of ~1650 dollars from the combined stipend and their prize winnings. This means that if you lost out in the first round players received 0 dollars, and NASL lost 650 dollars(which only happened with zenio). With the increased stipend and redistributed prize pool in season 2 players would be guaranteed 350 dollars after travel, just for making it there, while in season 1 no money was guaranteed for the players they bought tickets for. In what world is 350<0? Please do some research, or at least learn simple math before posting nonsense. People before you have already pointed out that the part of their expenses being paid is wrong. But no, you can't count that as "having lost 650". The 500 dollars of prize money is just that: prize money, something that was already going to be paid. The players just found that the NASL wasn't worth all the crap for just that amount. And nowhere did I say 350< 0. Learn reading comprehension before you post nonsense. You just don't get it do you. The NASL never offered to pay for all the players out of their own pockets, that's why they have teams, to send them to tournaments. What NASL did do was offer a substantial amount of money and increase their lower end prize pool to make sure nobody lost money on this, if the koreans didn't find it worth their time they shouldn't have played in qualifiers. And you said that it was the NASL who is trying to pay less than they did before which is a blatant lie, so maybe it is you who needs some reading comprehension. Apparently Koreans did raise objection to NASL, and both sides are at fault if anything for not reaching a mutual acceptance before the qualifiers ended. Except that the koreans still played in the qualifiers, not issuing this ultimatum of theirs until they were over. Well then NASL should've either stopped the players from further participating in the qualifiers at that point (if SC2Con raised their objection after the qualifers got started) or meet their demand earlier on? Both parties are at fault for this mess. Ridiculous. Should novody ever sign a contract because somebody may break it? The only thing NASL is at fault for is not being billionaires so they could pay everybodys way. In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties]. Can you please read NASL's own statement. There was no contract signed, and it's NASL that went ahead with season 2 without agreement reached. It's entirely their fault for the mess that has occured here. NASL had the choice of either meeting the demand or booting Korean players off of the qualifiers. They did neither. First off by entering the qualifiers and participating they had already agreed to the terms, then they dropped the ultimatum, afterwards. NASL obviously thought they were going to work it out, so they continued on, even if they had stopped the qualifiers then the entire thing would have to be redone. I also like how you start off with" both parties are at fault" and in 5 mins move on to" NASL is entirely at fault". Take your bias elsewhere.
There is nothing saying that participating in qualifiers means you must play in the actual tourney. They paid the entrance fee and played. Players get seeded and invited to tournies but decline for various reasons all the time. Do you have any info that they signed a contract already agreeing to all the terms being discussed? Because if they didn't they aren't bound to anything. Also, "In preparation for S2" doesn't mean they couldn't have started talking about before qualifiers as that is part of the preparation for S2.
On August 12 2011 17:15 Tommylew wrote:
part of me is glad, hopefully some of our players will beat the remaining koreans!!! lol. But seriously they know the score when they sign up, they cant expect the NASL to keep changing boundaries just for them, NASL did already and I know scheduleing is difficult but a good time for Korea is not nescessailry a good time for Europe AND American casters. The same if for European time to Kroean time etc. That is the problem.
Wonder what announcement they will make regarding the spots left over? Who will replace, would love to see Desmuslim in there!!! While we will be missing top Koreans I think this league can still push forward and hopefully prommote both American and European players a alot more!!!! Better then a Korean top 8!!!!
I'm pretty sure the Koreans got the short end of that stick throughout the tournament and why not get Tastosis on board? They're in Korea anyway. Oh and there was a comment earlier about players should just man up to the odd hours and play since it's their job...well, why not say the same for casters then. I wonder would the reactions be any different if it was Europe or NA playing at 4am every week.
On August 12 2011 17:28 sc2guy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:17 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:08 LuciferSC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:06 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 12 2011 17:02 kinray wrote:
When the Korean teams say that they are not happy how the tournament is run and that they will not participate in S2 if <insert the demands if Korean teams here> is not exactly done everyone is jumping the gun and blame them for having demands.
Can someone point me the difference between TL and Korean teams situation? And please not "they have a signed deal" because there is no information about something signed in OP.
Sure. TL didn't join qualifiers, taking up spots, didn't promise to be in the league, didn't proceed as if they were participating in the league, didn't plan to not be in the league yet refuse to say anything when the schedule and player lists were released, didn't plan to not be in the league but decide to abruptly call a boycott after the season begins. And there is no information that they didn't sign a deal, but if the season had already started, don't you think there was some kind of agreement involved? At the very least, a verbal agreement, which can be a binding contract? Just saying, I don't think NASL is dense enough to start the season with 1/3 of the players not competing. If you are to take a close reading of this paragraph.. (part of NASL's statement) "In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties]. " It's fairly clear that the objection was brought up prior to the beginning of season 2. Koreans are not at fault here. NASL clearly ignored their demand and went ahead with season 2. It says in preparation for Season 2. That all occurred after the qualifiers as they went on before the Grand Finals. Koreans are at fault here for signing up for a tournament that they couldn't follow through on. Regardless of signing a contract or not, they knew what the deal was before hand. And they still went on with it. After they qualified they said things needed to change. Your statement is true and fair. But you need to take of account that NASL chose to ignore the problems they had on hand and started filming. And when Koreans pulled out, NASL posted this thread and try to shift the blame to them (this is very obvious from the choice of words used in OP). Please note I am agreeing that SC2Con is partly at fault. What makes my blood boil is the OP by NASL. It reeks of anger and an hidden agenda of trying to get the community against Koreans.
In preparation for season 2 means during preparation for the season. Is qualifiers a part of the season or at least the preparation for it? I think so. Not to mention, maybe the Koreans believed that the contract would get settled by then as well? It basically comes down to this, was there a contract for participating in qualifiers? Because if not, then anyone can go, pay their money, and go play then go home. The fact that NASL makes no mention of this makes me think that there wasn't one and that both parties kind of acted with the assumption that things will get done...obviously that wasn't the case and it's biting them in the ass but I would have to say, the majority of the onus still falls with the organizers rather than the participants. They could have at any point said, no shenanigans, take it or leave it. Instead, it got drawn out to this giant CF because the Koreans basically "left it" before they could come up with a contingency.
On August 12 2011 17:28 Sated wrote:
Doesn't really bother me. The quality of the games will still be top-class and they'll be just as exciting even without the Korean presence. To be perfectly honest, the "I won't watch this without Koreans" people are just as bad as the "I won't watch this because Koreans dominate" people - can't please everyone!
Would it be any different to phrase it as "I won't watch this without the best players participating?" Because that's the essence of the gripe. Koreans are the best and some people just want to see the best. That is pretty different from saying I won't watch this because it's got Koreans in it.
On August 12 2011 17:29 vertical101 wrote:
Korean is really good taking foreign money(prize+this shit). this unfair for western-programer.
top 10 of prizemoney is korean, next thing we know they want to eat us aLive. they should have been happy from what they have. and think for foreigner player too. korean get special treatment in foreign tournaments but not enough they want everthing.
The answer : Learn from the Koreans. Practice with the Koreans. Play like the Koreans. Not, "Hey, let's remove Koreans from this tournament to give lower level players a better chance to win." That only serves to delegitamize the tournament.
On August 12 2011 17:32 Inex wrote:
Well not such a great loss. At least some other less known, but probably deserving players will be in the league. Maybe we can see Grubby in it again? Currently the IPL 2 doesn't have Koreans left and is great pleasure to watch, so I don't see how that will make NASL less entertaining. I think NASL s2 will be even better, with better production value and hopefully new and interesting players. New rivalries, new strats, etc. Looking forward to NASL 2.
Idk, if you're talking about skill...the most deserving players are probably the guys stuck in Code B or Code A that just can't seem to break out of that GSL meat grinder but would rape in foreign tournies like Puma/DRG/MMA/etc.
On August 12 2011 17:33 lee365 wrote:
Thank god SlayerS isn't on that list
They withdrew much earlier for the same reasons.
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On August 12 2011 17:56 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 jmbthirteen wrote:On August 12 2011 17:45 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 17:40 PHC wrote:On August 12 2011 17:35 Logros wrote:
Funny thing is that European players have pretty much the same situation as far a money goes and they have a lot lower chances of winning anything, but noone is complaining there. That's the thing though, Koreans are even attending the grueling open brackets of MLG for only $5000 first prize, yet they are withdrawing from NASL's $40k first prize tournament. Something else is going on FOR SURE. NASL is 3 months of play when compared to 3 days for MLG. NASL is one best of three over the course of 8 weeks. Then the playoffs if you make them which are like 2 or 3 bo3 in a day. And if you have made the Finals, then you have at most 4 bo3's over three days. Its not a huge commitment. And its total prize pool is $86,000 more than MLG's. Koreans play all those games at odd hours and over horrible latency. And sometimes you don't even get to play. It affects your performance in practice and other events. It IS a commitment to the Koreans.
Especially if you're still in the GSL, cause either you mess up your sleep schedule for a few days or don't get good practice before a match potentially...
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Finally the tournament has a name that suits well
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On August 12 2011 17:56 dabom88 wrote:
Koreans play all those games at odd hours and over horrible latency. And sometimes you don't even get to play. It affects your performance in practice and other events. It IS a commitment to the Koreans.
unfortunately, the horrible latency issue would be completely irrelevant if blizzard actually cared about globalization of esports. The technology exists. Blizzard HAS it (I've played on my american WoW account from a south african hotel with no latency problems)
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best news in a long time
finally the nasl is ixciting again!
getting sick of the koreans raping eu/us players
when i wanna watch koreans i go watch the gsl
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On August 12 2011 17:56 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:50 DystopiaX wrote:
The SC2 players association is an independant body formed by all the pro Korean teams (voluntarily, mind you) who oversee the transactions between players and teams, etc., and basically make sure that everyone is playing fair. For example, when the whole Fruitdealer/Tester thing happened with them alledgedly not getting their salaries from TSL, the players association was the mediating body who stepped in and first expelled TSL for not upholding their side of the bargain, and then reversing it when they found out it was all a misunderstanding. The important thing to note is that the teams here are regulating themselves and membership is voluntary- SlayerS, for example, chose not to join and so do not participate in the decisions made by the Sc2 association. Very interesting. Thanks for the info! I don't really understand the need for such an association in the first place. And that just gives me even more reason to love slayers for just saying "no thanks, we don't need a babysitter to play fair."
I don't think all of that is completely correct. There is sc2con (the committee putting the ban on NASL). sc2con is made up of the teams managers and the president of the sc2 players association which is meant to represent the players. Thats who FD and Tester went to and sc2pa brought it up with sc2con to judge TSL.
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On August 12 2011 17:49 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:45 Honeybadger wrote:On August 12 2011 17:42 Bobster wrote:The big players in the Korean SC2 scene all have the BW history.
They're probably used to getting their way without question as far as international competition (as limited as it was in the BW days) goes. that's what pisses me off. GOM is not KeSPA. They aren't a monopoly, they aren't the best (arguably) and they don't have fair right to do this. I think this is a bad sign for korean teams, sadly enough. It's bad enough that lots of koreans are joining foreign teams. You are basing ur judgements on misinformed facts. Gom is not involved in this matter (as countless others have already pointed out), it costs minimum of $1200-1300 for a roundtrip flight from Korea to North America. They made a demand in the interest of their players - NASL could not meet it. End of the story. As for who made the bigger boo-boo, that really depends on ur view.
They refused to play nice when nasl offerred to guarantee everyone who had to travel 2500$. that's ridiculous and should be called as such.
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United States23455 Posts
On August 12 2011 17:54 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 Govou wrote:On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'( I translated bits from korean's side on the other thread. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=basically they do not find NASL to be trustworthy (none of koreans received any money including deposits) and on top of that, they do not like the playing condition which is affecting their regular practice and what not. That is a heavy accusation to make. Especially because I find it hard believing it to be true.
Not taking into account the whole money issue, I can see why they wouldn't want to do the NASL for three straight months. Even American players had a hard time playing their series every week. The Koreans have to wake up at a terrible hour to play the games and sometimes have to wait even longer if their opponent is running late or can't come. Boxer was stood up last season by PainUser and basically wasted hours waiting.
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Really sad news and a big blow to NASL for sure. I always thought Korean teams had big sponsorships for some reason. Best players deserve the most money, guess I was wrong 
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On August 12 2011 17:57 BootySmakaRaX wrote:
Id just like to point out that after all this talk about who is right or wrong no one has mentioned that the Europeans or non korean international players have not said anything about drawing out.
Pretty sure Naniwa said it was a shitty league (his words). He's not in season 2 of course.
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On August 12 2011 17:54 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:49 Govou wrote:On August 12 2011 17:47 Sooji wrote:
I simply don't understand why the Korean organization wouldn't take the deal. The 2k, from what the NASL spokesperson stated, appears to be more then enough to cover everything.
I really want to hear the Korean's reasoning for denying that final offer. NASL bent over backwards to accommodate them yet they still denied. What could possibly be wrong?
Truly sad to hear this. I won't sugarcoat this, I do not think I will follow NASL very closely after hearing this decision. Fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Koreans dominate the scene at the moment and show the highest level of play. It's a shame because it doesn't seem to be NASL's fault at all that things turned out this way :'( I translated bits from korean's side on the other thread. http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=736266&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=basically they do not find NASL to be trustworthy (none of koreans received any money including deposits) and on top of that, they do not like the playing condition which is affecting their regular practice and what not. That is a heavy accusation to make. Especially because I find it hard believing it to be true.
It is heavy but since it came from pretty much SC2con, it is true.
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Lets see.
NASL offered $1000 in travel money and boosted the last place price to $1000.
Now lets see.
Team has to deposit $500 for each player. Buy a ticket (according to some posts ~1200$ bothways. Pay for hotel ~400-700$ (depends on how long they will stay - need some time to get rid of jet lag). Its all comes to $2100+.
Now the NASL pays the prices up to 60 days after the finals.
Do you know any airlines or hotels that let you pay for the ticket after 60 days?
Also another fact. Korean teams are different from western teams. How many western teams have teamhouses? If i remember ST coach said that they spend around $3-4k for food alone a month even if they are on tight budget. So if a team has like 2-3 people qualified for the NASL finals so thats extra $2-3k that they have to pay in a month (but they get it back after 2 months).
It would be all al right if the esports players have in contract that they pay the team a % of the winnings (at least it should be that way) but since its all secret we wont know it ever.
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On August 12 2011 17:58 tripper688 wrote:
They withdrew much earlier for the same reasons.
I wonder if they withdrew when the stipend was only $500? Because in all fairness, $500 isn't enough for the flight alone. $1000 should cover everything pretty solidly.
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On August 12 2011 17:56 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 17:50 DystopiaX wrote:
The SC2 players association is an independant body formed by all the pro Korean teams (voluntarily, mind you) who oversee the transactions between players and teams, etc., and basically make sure that everyone is playing fair. For example, when the whole Fruitdealer/Tester thing happened with them alledgedly not getting their salaries from TSL, the players association was the mediating body who stepped in and first expelled TSL for not upholding their side of the bargain, and then reversing it when they found out it was all a misunderstanding. The important thing to note is that the teams here are regulating themselves and membership is voluntary- SlayerS, for example, chose not to join and so do not participate in the decisions made by the Sc2 association. Very interesting. Thanks for the info! I don't really understand the need for such an association in the first place. And that just gives me even more reason to love slayers for just saying "no thanks, we don't need a babysitter to play fair."
It's more like a player's union consisting of players, managers, coaches.
KeSPA was more like a governing body consisting of businessmen - they have an iron grip on the players and teams.
HUGE difference.
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EPT
