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On August 10 2011 06:44 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 06:31 qqw wrote:
The main argument I'm seeing here is:
"You have to play it (DotA/LoL/HoN) to watch it"
I agree. You have to be able to play the game yourself to understand what the point of the game is. However if someone who'd never played an rts in their life had to play see SC2 being played they wouldn't know what was going on. Yes, but how long will it take someone to learn basic RTS concepts and tens of units+spells, as opposed to hundreds of champions+items+powers.
It honestly isn't difficult, especially if you DO play it as well. Sure if somebody has never seen it before it would be quite confusing, but how many people watch SC2 that haven't play(ed) it/ care enough to attain some knowledge about it? I doubt it would be too high.
OT:
I do agree with that the times that are just farming and denying are rather boring to watch, but I feel that some of the great moments with ganks and such help compensate for it a bit. Somewhat like the periods in starcraft where players are sitting back and macroing, compared to pushes/timing attacks/drops, etc. Yes the phases where such things occur are normally much smaller in starcraft, but I have also seen periods of extremely long action in DotA/Hon.
They would probably coexist and not simply have one surpass the other, and I'm relatively sure there are many whore enjoy both genres. I don't know why it has to be about "Can MOBA surpass starcraft?" rather than simply MOBAs being a viable game for e-sports, especially since its 1v1 compared to 5v5. I personally love them both, playing and watching.
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i think alot more people are playing dota than people that play starcraft.
but the competetive scene is kinda small...lets see what changes dota2 will bring upon us 
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Potentially, because casual noob games will always be more popular.
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Both can succeed without hurting each other. Be happy and supportive of both, you don't have to choose.
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dota could, leagues can't.
In order to be lead, you need consistent results. After dreamhack, league has almost NO tournaments. The top level players are also getting less than 100 viewer counts when they stream.
Lol generates initial interest, but pointless if they can't keep it up
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On August 10 2011 07:08 Highways wrote:
Potentially, because casual noob games will always be more popular.
While LoL is more focused on being casual, I would in no way call DotA/HoN "casual noob games" :/. They are actually pretty brutal to people who are trying to learn the game.
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On August 10 2011 06:41 scintilliaSD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 06:37 Kangdemon wrote:
You guys do know sc2 is still fairly new right? You cant talk about sc2's player base right now until everyone from BW move over. There are still A LOT of americans that are in bw, and it is still bigger then sc2 in korea, so just wait for a year or two then we'll see which game has the bigger playerbase. League of Legends is a couple of months older than SC2, and the legacy that LoL and other MoBA clones has been built off of is way younger than SC:BW.
LoL is f2p though and HoN the moba you had to pay for had like 500k active players.
Usually the easy to follow sports succeed just look at football it's so simple everyone van follow it which is a a big factor in it's success ( obviously not the only one ).
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First of surpassing sc2 in competition (which makes me laugh immensely), MOBA games have to get over their main problem: competition. League of legends, Heroes of newerth, DOTA 2, DOTA 1 (which is still very big on china), SOTIS, Smashcraft, the list goes on.
All this games have their own community and particular fanbase. LOL stands out of the list because of the original and excelent work riot games have had with its game, distinguishing theirselves from "another dota clone". With the new map "dominion" it will be even bigger the diference. This is the key point in LOL's sucess, although the horrid interface and the bugsy client that seems to have been made by 12's learning c++.
So before we have in the forums the stupidity threads "SC2 VS DOTA 2 COMPETITIVE SCENEZZ". the moba community should really question "LOL vs Dota 2".
And also the fact that sc2 is leagues ahead in esports matter, there is the very powerful starcraft community behind it, and league of legends players mostly are all flavor of the month guys.
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btw, hotshotgg is probably the only streamer on LoL that can generate any amount of worthy viewer counts. The WCG LoL stream games have 100-200 viewers throughout the tourney.
People also don't watch hotshot for LoL games, they watch it for drama. He is a terrible player, but entertaining to watch for his rage and outragous comments
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How's that relevant when the thread is MOBA vs SC2.
Also I don't even understand what you're trying to show with the first, second and third video. Emotional hype videos and commentators getting excited? Hell every game with a relatively large fanbase has that...
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allot of ppl play f2p games, any1 surprised? It possibly could although it isn't nearly as entertaining imo. i like the game but watching it isn't as exciting.
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On August 10 2011 05:33 fadestep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 05:25 ReturnStroke wrote:
At this point, no game will pass SC2 in competitiveness. It won't have the same skillcap, and it won't have near the competitive atmosphere. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if it passed it in popularity. People don't like hard games anymore.
They ESPECIALLY don't like competitive games that destroy you for being a lower skilled player. Thus, people will drift into technically competitive games (as in one player technically is there to beat someone else.) If your bad, SC2 will punish you for it. People don't like this. They go play COD or, in this case, LoL, DoTA, etc. I don't doubt LoL and HoN and others are competitive, but nothing compared to what it takes to be great at SC. People still play WoW "competitively" too, and that will also remain more popular as a game. This kind of post is bullshit. Somebody with zero experience competitively in either Starcraft 2 or LoL/HoN making blanket statements about the skill required to play either game competitively. It is fine to love Starcraft 2 guys, but you don't need to shit on other games and act like Starcraft is some god given game which only the most badass of motherfuckers can play. Starcraft and LoL/HoN require completely different skillsets and at most you can subjectively value one of those skillsets as being more meaningful/difficult than the other. But it is perposterous to say that LoL/HoN can never pass SC2 in competitiveness because they are easy games that don't take what it takes to be great at SC.
Lol/HoN do require skill. Teamwork requires skill. Compared to games like CoD, Lol/HoN blows it out of the water. I want to make that clear for those butthurt over my first post. I'm just comparing it to SC2. I recently started watching/following HoN tourneys and after it went F2P I got it and wanted to dip my toes into the water. I was watching Testie's stream (Testie Fighting), and in my ignorance, it seemed like the individual skill was high, but reachable.
I started asking around about the skill cap. I haven't personally reached the skill cap in SC2 or HoN (I guess a lot of other people here have), but it didn't seem that I was alone in my comparisons. The general consensus was basically "The individual skill cap is pretty high but the team skill cap is limitless." These were my thoughts exactly and it seemed accepted by a lot of the community. I'm sorry if it was just a weird coincidence that we agreed,and Testie stream-watchers don't know what they're talking about.
P.S. I <3 HoN. I just won't say that it takes the practice and skill level of SC2.
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On August 10 2011 07:35 zz_ wrote:How's that relevant when the thread is MOBA vs SC2. Also I don't even understand what you're trying to show with the first, second and third video. Emotional hype videos and commentators getting excited? Hell every game with a relatively large fanbase has that... The thread is about the leader of esports.
I haven't seen MOBA create such a scene, show me please, something worthy.
edit: and lasting.
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If MOBA overtakes SC2 it would be better than a game like Halo doing the same.
But regardless I would be really pissed off if such a thing ever happened. I want Starcraft to always be the kind of eSports. At least we can feel happy that in Korea it will remain the king.
Keep in mind Dota has actually been around longer than SC2 has, but it hasn't created a big scene. Even HoN has been around longer, but still no comparison between the scenes. Perhaps MOBA will suffer from having all their players split among three different games (LoL, HoN and Dota 2).
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I really hope not, would rather have COD be the face of esports. Then again I see no one giving fighters the time of day. I would love to see a SF/marvel/tekken game take the spotlight.
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On August 10 2011 07:56 Serpico wrote:
I really hope not, would rather have COD be the face of esports.
Wow, watch what you say there?
You want the face of eSports to be some 16 year old kid sitting on Xbox Live drinking mountain dew calling everyone a f*ggot while he boasts about getting "360 no scopes"?
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On August 10 2011 07:58 Divergence wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2011 07:56 Serpico wrote:
I really hope not, would rather have COD be the face of esports. Wow, watch what you say there? You want the face of eSports to be some 16 year old kid sitting on Xbox Live drinking mountain dew calling everyone a f*ggot while he boasts about getting "360 no scopes"?
Might as well if we have dota clones being heralded.
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LoL isnt made for competitive play, that is why it will never come close to starcraft 1 and 2.
The only hope for the genre is either HoN or DotA 2.
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I honestly hope Dota2 becomes everything Valve and its fans hope it'll become. I'm probably going to try it out. It won't take away from SC though ideally they'll both grow as E-Sports takes over the world!
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DotA will become quite big, but in terms of esports as a whole, won't become as big as SC2 is.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://c.ask.nate.com/imgs/qrsi.php/5865023/7956145/0/1/A/185.jpg)
