EPTCould MOBA Games Give Starcraft 2 a Run? - Page 8
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MaestrO_
United States591 Posts
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Loki57
United States292 Posts
"The really challenging part about making DotA a huge E-sport is that its incredibly un-entertaining to the observer's eye. In sc2 constant action is going and its a generally fast paced game to watch and enjoy with many features. DotA can be incredibly stagnant in the laning phase and can be alot more complex to understand who has the advantage in each lane." This is compounded by the styles of the Chinese (best) DotA teams in the competitive scene, where games tend to go about 50 minutes with a large majority of it being farming. The only thing holding back DotA/LoL/HoN/whatever is these periods of inactivity, and hopefully a new game like DotA2 will have observer features or other things to "better" the experience. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
On August 10 2011 03:34 Joseph123 wrote: the thing in dota is that you reach your maximum skill level and you can't improve anymore cause of the nature of the game.. only thing you do is watch replays and think of strategies while in sc2 you need to constantly play or you get worse so for sc2 pro player to play dota = waste of talent but this has a good side you can be competitive at dota by just playing tournaments if you have the required skill and the time wasted is minimal both games are fun and totally different Why limit the definition of skill? Limit any definition of skill and you can say any competitive player will no longer improve. Dota has so much left to explore, there are so many heroes and so many variables and timings, the depth and possible strategies is bottomless. Also, I have yet to see someone who can kill and deny every creep in their lane, so obviously the 'perfect max skill' player has yet to arrive. The level of awareness is also insane. Although you are controlling one hero, you need to be aware of the other 9 heroes, their constantly changing positions, available life, mana, runes, in addition to the 'creep' wave/timing in-lanes. The level of execution is even more insane, to time things in sync with 4 other players and reacting accordingly to the opposing team and adjusting for counters and changing circumstances by the mili-seconds. It's some of the most intense micro experiences ever and also some of the most gratifying. It must have been a troll post... On August 10 2011 05:34 Eppa! wrote: Since when is teamwork not seen as "skill" any more? If you are afraid to get punished SC2 is for you, If you lose in SC2 you can say whatever and start a new game. If you feed in a MOBA you will get harassed. You will get destroyed by slightly better players in MOBAs. You see top MMR players wreak high level players. DotA is a hardcore game, larger learning curve, team oriented with a bunch of very very tight timings. Second this. Anyone who is not good at Dota should not comment on the game's difficulty at all. Half the haters are noobs who got pwned relentlessly (feeding the opposing team) and then got flamed by their team for bringing the team down, resulting in a terrible gaming experience. Winning a close/intense game as a team is a whole different experience than winning alone and anyone who has played competitive team sports (basketball, football, etc.) can attest to that. So to each their own, both are fun. I watch both pro-dota games and pro-SC2 games, end of the day what makes it fun to watch for me is (1) the hype, (2) the caster, and (3) understanding the 'killer' executed moves (e.g. Daigo Evo 2004 comeback, if you do not understand how parry works, you cannot appreciate how god-like that was). For dota, (3) is impossible for a non-player/noob to catch, and very difficult for even one caster to catch. Probably need 3 casters to follow everything (each follow only 3 heroes or something like that). | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:16 Lokian wrote: care to explain what you're talking about? by the way.... Blizzard dota will surpass sc2. lol Ok, I'll explain what I'm talking about. In Korea, BW teams are sponsored by the likes of multinational corporations and telecommunications companies that service the entire country. Top players have salaries (not including prizes) reaching 200 to 300k a year. BW is broadcast across the nation during prime time and has two dedicated channels, OGN and MBC. The live finals of large events draw tens of thousands of viewers, far higher than any SC2 event (MLG included other games, GSL has never drawn over 10,000). Professional BW players film advertisements aired nationally for their sponsors. As for playerbase . . only a paltry 400k people have played SC2 games in the past 7 days. Millions, if not tens of millions of people play Dota regularly. Not to mention, a Chinese Dota team was recently purchased for over 6 million USD, just to give a taste of how big the Dota esports scene is in China. Even Brain and Fish server, dedicated servers for BW in Korea, have about 30k+ concurrent users each in peak hours. The number of LoL players also reach the seven figures. | ||
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qqw
107 Posts
"You have to play it (DotA/LoL/HoN) to watch it" I agree. You have to be able to play the game yourself to understand what the point of the game is. However if someone who'd never played an rts in their life had to play see SC2 being played they wouldn't know what was going on. You have to understand the genre to understand the specific game, and with AoS (or MOBA/Action-RTS and whatever else it's called) the genre is very new so players of other genres find it weird that people would understand that genre. It's quickly growing though, (shortly after AoS spread to more than one hard to market game within wc3 recordable statistics showed incredible amounts of new players) and soon it will be fairly common for a random pc gamer to know what the idea behind DotA is. Even given that, how many viewers does SC2 attract? A few hundred thousand seems to be the number of people who will watch fairly important events. The 20+ (could be as high as 30/40, but conservative estimates are better) million DotA players provide a more than big enough audience to attract viewers from, and it can only grow from here. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [OSL History 1999-2010] + @39m17s (it's set to auto-start there) ![[image loading]](http://c.ask.nate.com/imgs/qrsi.php/5865023/7956145/0/1/A/185.jpg) | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:29 chenchen wrote: Ok, I'll explain what I'm talking about. In Korea,In Korea,In Korea,In Korea,In Korea, BW teams are sponsored by the likes of multinational corporations and telecommunications companies that service the entire country. Top players have salaries (not including prizes) reaching 200 to 300k a year. BW is broadcast across the nation during prime time and has two dedicated channels, OGN and MBC. The live finals of large events draw tens of thousands of viewers, far higher than any SC2 event (MLG included other games, GSL has never drawn over 10,000). Professional BW players film advertisements aired nationally for their sponsors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0OY6Ow65LQ As for playerbase . . only a paltry 400k people have played SC2 games in the past 7 days. Millions, if not tens of millions of people play Dota regularly. Not to mention, a Chinese Dota team was recently purchased for over 6 million USD, just to give a taste of how big the Dota esports scene is in China. Even Brain and Fish server, dedicated servers for BW in Korea, have about 30k+ concurrent users each in peak hours. The number of LoL players also reach the seven figures. yep, these numbers need to be updated | ||
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Kangdemon
United States6 Posts
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Baituri
Netherlands1501 Posts
2 different thinks. They will coexist next to each other. | ||
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Backpack
United States1776 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:37 Baituri wrote: Could Baseball give Football a run? 2 different thinks. They will coexist next to each other. Agreed. All in the name of ESPORTS. | ||
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Unclesoppa
Finland10 Posts
With most strategy games you only need 2 (+obs) kids to sit down at the same time Also prize pools have to be split among multiple people and the average game length including setup time is way longer for Dotalikes and there are much more tiny tidbits of information required for viewers to know what's going on The grind required to unlock the things necessary to all but the biggest competitions due to the F2P nature of the games is also an issue for professional gamers who are planning on switching from other games While it's POSSIBLE there are many more bumps in the road for these games compared to SC2 | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:37 Kangdemon wrote: You guys do know sc2 is still fairly new right? You cant talk about sc2's player base right now until everyone from BW move over. There are still A LOT of americans that are in bw, and it is still bigger then sc2 in korea, so just wait for a year or two then we'll see which game has the bigger playerbase. League of Legends is a couple of months older than SC2, and the legacy that LoL and other MoBA clones has been built off of is way younger than SC:BW. | ||
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LittLeD
Sweden7973 Posts
I might be able to follow whats going on in a dota match (barely), but I've also played the game quite a lot and have an avarage grasp of the spell, items and the heroes. But Imagine casuals. How the hell are they supposed to cope with all the information? In contradiction to what some might hink, a big part of the viewers actually dont want to have to bother playing a game to enjoy watching it. Here is where SC2 gains popularity, its somewhat easy to understand whats going on even for newcommers. /2cents | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:31 qqw wrote: The main argument I'm seeing here is: "You have to play it (DotA/LoL/HoN) to watch it" I agree. You have to be able to play the game yourself to understand what the point of the game is. However if someone who'd never played an rts in their life had to play see SC2 being played they wouldn't know what was going on. Yes, but how long will it take someone to learn basic RTS concepts and tens of units+spells, as opposed to hundreds of champions+items+powers. | ||
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Kangdemon
United States6 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:41 scintilliaSD wrote: League of Legends is a couple of months older than SC2, and the legacy that LoL and other MoBA clones has been built off of is way younger than SC:BW. I'm sure MOBA as genre has more players then sc1 and sc2, but I mean the playerbase of sc2 as a whole should not be talked about right now until we can get a more accurate reading, which is whenever bw players come along. EDIT: Like i said, moba as a genre probably has a bigger playerbase, but I wish I knew whether dota 2 will have more players then sc2, even when the bw guys move over. I want to know  | ||
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qqw
107 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:44 Novalisk wrote: Yes, but how long will it take someone to learn basic RTS concepts and tens of units+spells, as opposed to hundreds of champions+items+powers. Are you arguing that viewers with too much experience in a given game don't count? I don't understand what you're getting at... Millions have been able to learn games in the genre and with every new person that learns it there's a potential new viewer! There might be a higher entry barrier in terms of time spent, but that doesn't seem to be stopping people at all. | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:44 Kangdemon wrote: I'm sure MOBA as genre has more players then sc1 and sc2, but I mean the playerbase of sc2 as a whole should not be talked about right now until we can get a more accurate reading, which is whenever bw players come along. Part of the reason SC2 player-base will not grow as much as games like dota, is because its not a huge team game. Dota players bring their friends to the game (who in turn bring their friends, etc.), cause its just that much better to cooperate and team with friends and win together. SC2 2v2s, 3v3s, etc. are fun in their own way, but you can easily play a 1v1 so you don't need your friends in the game or even at the same time. To avoid the flaming and frustrations, I literally only play if I can have a couple of friends available to team with. | ||
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