Could MOBA Games Give Starcraft 2 a Run? - Page 6

On August 10 2011 05:19 ForeverSleep wrote:
How many tournaments does LoL even have (no bashing here, i am just asking)? I hear about Dota tournaments. I hear about HoN tournaments. So far, I have not seem many LoL tournaments, except one because for some reason the developer decided to include the stream in the game (or something like that?) and the LR thread for a sc2 tournament airing at the same time had gone in total berserk . How many LoL teams are there in the first place?

On August 10 2011 05:10 [Agony]x90 wrote:


I disagree a lot with this statement. Show me anything in this world and I will not understand it until I do one of two things - try it or watch someone else perform it correctly. Until that occurs, the object, concept, game, etc. will mean nothing to me. I know this because I started watching fighting games recently. I've played them in my day, but never really seriously or with a lot of attention. Once MvC3, MK9 and SSF4 came out, I understood the basic concept, but not the mechanics or what the players were doing. As I watched more, I saw patterns and emphasis on certain actions. Eventually, I started picking out what was considered "good" and what was considered "bad". And this was not only for the basics of the game. I began learning which characters were good, which combos were good, what was hard to pull off and what was impressive. For example, when i first saw Dark Phoenix in MvC3, i was like, wow she's strong, moreso than she should be. I didn't understand why she was strong either. She activated it (didn't know how this happened either) and then particles started flying every where. Soon enough, everyone's dead on the other team. Eventually, I learned that it only activates with lvl 5 super when she dies, that the particles are multiple ranged attacks that are homing and that she has a super that can give her HP back. At this point, i started seeing why everyone hated her and why she would pop up so often. Soon I understood the the stigma around her. It is small things like this that slowly pulled me into the MvC3 culture that I could not understand before.

Another example. People have argued that SC:BW was so good because anyone could understand it. They would use the Korean girls as an example, using the sexist concept that "oh if a girl can understand it just watching it, then it must be a universal language". This isn't the case at all. My friends at school and even friends of mine that play games themselves could watch a game and not know whats going on. They see the screen and the armies fighting, but to them, they can't discern anything. This isn't because they're idiots, it's because they're ignorant (not in a bad way). If they took the time to watch as few as 5 games of professional StarCraft, and I mean actually WATCH the game, they would quickly be able to discern what is going on.

There is no reason why this is not the same case with LoL. Since games last about 35 - 40 minutes, any person who is watching will easily begin to see patterns involving the 10 characters on the field. After a while, they'll begin to see the effects each do and learn what is going on. By the end of the 40 minutes, they can almost expect what to see from each of the ten. This means that every game a person watches in a game, he or she can easily learn what is going on within the bounds of the game, so long as they are willing to pay attention and learn.

Then again, there are those who have no interest in paying attention and learning when playing games. These are casual gamers who will very likely suck at the games they play. However, this is another matter :-p.

On August 10 2011 05:25 ReturnStroke wrote:
At this point, no game will pass SC2 in competitiveness. It won't have the same skillcap, and it won't have near the competitive atmosphere. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if it passed it in popularity. People don't like hard games anymore.

They ESPECIALLY don't like competitive games that destroy you for being a lower skilled player. Thus, people will drift into technically competitive games (as in one player technically is there to beat someone else.) If your bad, SC2 will punish you for it. People don't like this. They go play COD or, in this case, LoL, DoTA, etc. I don't doubt LoL and HoN and others are competitive, but nothing compared to what it takes to be great at SC. People still play WoW "competitively" too, and that will also remain more popular as a game.

On August 10 2011 05:25 ReturnStroke wrote:
At this point, no game will pass SC2 in competitiveness. It won't have the same skillcap, and it won't have near the competitive atmosphere. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if it passed it in popularity. People don't like hard games anymore.

They ESPECIALLY don't like competitive games that destroy you for being a lower skilled player. Thus, people will drift into technically competitive games (as in one player technically is there to beat someone else.) If your bad, SC2 will punish you for it. People don't like this. They go play COD or, in this case, LoL, DoTA, etc. I don't doubt LoL and HoN and others are competitive, but nothing compared to what it takes to be great at SC. People still play WoW "competitively" too, and that will also remain more popular as a game.

On August 10 2011 05:31 PlosionCornu wrote:


I just invalidate your entire wot with these words : the majority of the people in the world don't have time/ don't want to commit so much time in learning something if it gets in the way of something that's supposed to generate fun/pass time.

The majority of humans are casuals.

The majority of people are not you.

I mean, I'm appalled by the fact that there's even the need to explain that moba games are horrible as far as viewer enjoynment goes. There's millions of abilities, heroes items. Besides, there's too much stuff going on at the same time. It's literarly impossible to follow effectively.

Want a more practical explanation? Well here it comes.

There's people who are still confused by the alternate appearance of the collector's edition Thor, and think that's a completely different unit, or that the opponent is hacking or something. Same can be said for the alternate dark templar skin.

LoL has thousands of alternate skins....with the same isometric camera. Go ahead and pretend that the average casual can understand that a monkey is still the same hero even if its ON FIRE.

Esports games are supposed to be extremely simple at first, and then pick up complexity as playtime goes by ( I don't mean early/mid/endgame, just from noob to grandmaster). They are supposed to have some common element that even the most casual viewer can relate to.

This does not apply with mobas. Again, thousands of heroes/abilities/items etc. Too many variables.

A game that's HARD to understand at first glance just does not make any sense in a Esport environment. Get over it.

On August 10 2011 05:37 fadestep wrote:


You must be blinded by a crazy amount of fanboyism to think that Starcraft 2 is any easier to digest than LoL/HoN.

This type of thread always makes me laugh. Starcraft 2 fanboys/purists (very rarely the people who are actually good at Starcraft 2) simultaneously go with two approaches to bashing MOBAs:

1. MOBAs are really easy and aren't as competitive as SC2.
2. MOBAs are too hard to understand and everybody can't get into them like SC2.

Woops. Those points actually don't line up as being a very logical argument about anything.

I like how you think your such a fucking expert that you tell him to "Get over it" at the end like you just came down with God's hammer of logic itself and smashed him in the forehead with it. You didn't. Get over it.

On August 10 2011 05:33 fadestep wrote:


This kind of post is bullshit.

Somebody with zero experience competitively in either Starcraft 2 or LoL/HoN making blanket statements about the skill required to play either game competitively.

It is fine to love Starcraft 2 guys, but you don't need to shit on other games and act like Starcraft is some god given game which only the most badass of motherfuckers can play.

Starcraft and LoL/HoN require completely different skillsets and at most you can subjectively value one of those skillsets as being more meaningful/difficult than the other. But it is perposterous to say that LoL/HoN can never pass SC2 in competitiveness because they are easy games that don't take what it takes to be great at SC.

On August 10 2011 05:35 Jacuzzi wrote:
I'm pretty sure LoL's been in the lead from the start...

On August 10 2011 05:39 Lokian wrote:
The irony is that LoL appeals more to casual gamers than SC2.

I have yet to play a single game of SC2 but watched it since beta.

LoL, however, I played for months but have yet to watch a single game with commentators.

This is just me, but I want to say there's a line somewhere.

On August 10 2011 05:21 Trumpstyle wrote:
My prediction is that LoL will become pretty big e-sport, Dota 2 and HoN not so much.

HoN seems to be dying but might grow now when its going f2p.

Dota 2 has 3 problems at the moment to succeed:

1. It's most likely not going to be f2p which means casual players might not buy this game instead stick with LoL or HoN.
2.From my understanding Dota 2 has inferior gameplay as it caters more to hardcore players and not to casual players.
3. So far there has been no trailers, gameplay or commercials for dota 2, Valve really need to try hype this game up and not waste there money with a big tournament.

On August 10 2011 05:45 fadestep wrote:


This is actually really interesting to me.

I have to think that like somebody mentioned earlier in the thread, the competitive scene of Starcraft 2 has a lot more personalities and great commentators/figureheads at the moment. This probably makes it more attractive for people like you, who even though they play LoL don't want to watch pro LoL because that community doesn't have as developed of a competitive scene with people they recognize and associate with.

But I think we can see the potential for the growth of MOBA esports by thinking about this:

It is very easy to cultivate and develop a competitive community and popular personalities when you have a game that is growing its playerbase. And the one thing that cannot be disputed about MOBAs is that the playerbase is growing, FAST.

On the other hand, there is a potential danger for SC2 in the sense that people really establish divides between pro gamers, casual players, and even viewers who don't play. Although the top tier scene is already established, the area for growth of the scene might actually be a lot more limited in SC2. Add to that the fact that there are simply less people playing SC2, and you can definitely see ways in which MOBA games could overtake the esports scene in certain ways.