DISCLAIMER: THERE ARE GSL AND GSTL SPOILERS SO YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!! D: PLEASE DON’T PROCEED IF YOU DON’T WISH TO BE SPOILED EDIT 9/10/11 : In light of recent events, new poll added-----> New Poll
Poll: In light of recent events, who is currently the terran king?
IMMvp (1446)
61%
MarineKingPrime.We (486)
21%
SlayerS_MMA (191)
8%
There Currently Is No King (111)
5%
Other Terran Not Listed (35)
1%
oGsNaDa (26)
1%
ST_Bomber (21)
1%
EG.PuMa (18)
1%
OptimusPrime.We (14)
1%
SlayerS_Ryung (7)
0%
oGsTOP (5)
0%
SlayerS_GanZi (4)
0%
2364 total votes
Your vote: In light of recent events, who is currently the terran king?
(Vote): IMMvp (Vote): MarineKingPrime.We (Vote): OptimusPrime.We (Vote): oGsTOP (Vote): oGsNaDa (Vote): EG.PuMa (Vote): SlayerS_MMA (Vote): ST_Bomber (Vote): SlayerS_GanZi (Vote): SlayerS_Ryung (Vote): Other Terran Not Listed (Vote): There Currently Is No King
Old Poll
Poll: Who is the King of Terran?
IMMVP (1088)
45%
There is currently no king (734)
30%
MarineKingPrime.We (150)
6%
ST.Bomber (91)
4%
EG.PuMa (84)
3%
Slayers_MMA (84)
3%
ogsNaDa (60)
2%
mouz.ThorZain (49)
2%
Other-Honorable Mentions (49)
2%
OptimusPrime.We (25)
1%
FXOsC (15)
1%
2429 total votes
Your vote: Who is the King of Terran?
(Vote): IMMVP (Vote): FXOsC (Vote): OptimusPrime.We (Vote): MarineKingPrime.We (Vote): ogsNaDa (Vote): mouz.ThorZain (Vote): EG.PuMa (Vote): ST.Bomber (Vote): Slayers_MMA (Vote): There is currently no king (Vote): Other-Honorable Mentions
As StarCraft 2’s first birthday approaches, it’s nice to take a look back at all the competitions, all of the tournaments, and all of the great matches and determine which players are top tier of each race. At this stage of the game, it’s fairly obvious that NesTea is the king of Zerg and MC is the king of toss, but the king of Terran is much more difficult to determine. It seems like every day, a new Terran emerges and stuns us with his solid macro, multi-tasking, or insane builds. Korea is like a reactored barracks churning out top level terrans at a fast pace. In fact, the top 20 of Korean grandmaster league is predominantly Terran players. The amount of great European and North American Terrans showing up seems to be much slower and the overall skill level seems to be further behind. Overall, there is an abundance of skillful Terrans from all over the world which is why I ask you, Teamliquid forum goers, who the king of Terran is in your opinion? Contenders for the Crown: MVP Accomplishments: 2nd 2011 LG Cinema 3D GSL Sponsorship League Season 3: Code A 1st 2011 Gainward PlayXP.com StarCraft II Tournament 1st 2011 LG Cinema 3D GSL World Championship Seoul 1st 2011 Sony Ericsson GSL Sponsorship League Season 1: Code S Overview: At one point in his StarCraft 2 career, MVP was without a doubt the best Terran in the world and possibly the best player in the world. Everyone feared and talked about “The Game Genie” Terran, No Terran could hold a candle to MVP. At this stage though, many Terrans can stand their ground against him and it’s debatable whether he is the best anymore. In the first season of code S, MVP made a joke of everyone he faced decimating his teammate Nestea and plowing through MarineKing 4-0. He played a pivotal role in his team’s victory in the first ever GSTL beating players like Bomber and playing an epic series vs Squirtle. For a while, he was dominant, but then he started to slump getting knocked out of Code S and into Code A. Next season, with renewed vigor, MVP earned himself a silver code A medal losing to Startale bomber 4-2 and earned a spot back into code S. Recently; he was defeated in the ro32 of Code S this season and lost an important match in GSTL vs FXOqxc. His weaknesses seem to be his TvP and his TvT hasn’t looked so hot recently. In a few days, we will see him compete in MLG. Will the Game Genie Terran show the world once again that he is the supreme Terran, or will he fall lower and lower? Only one way to find out, Tune into MLG later this week! :D SlayerS_MMA Achievements: 2011 Major League Gaming Pro Circuit: Columbus
2011 All 4 One Gaming Invitational #2
2011 LG Cinema 3D GSL Super Tournament
SlayerS_MMA started as a SKT1 B teamer and was recruited by BoxeR for his SC2 team SlayerS. In his first game in the GSL he beat Ret and showed his TvZ was not to be messed with. He later came out as the SlayerS ace in most of their team league games, defeating MC, MVP, and DongRaeGu. His final match vs. DongRaeGu showcased his amazing multitasking and great micro as he came back to win from a 40 supply deficit. MMA also won MLG with some amazing holds vs. Losira and July and annihilating his own command center vs Idra. MMA has been on a slump since then. He was beaten 4-0 by Optimus in the Super Tournament finals and was knocked into Code B by Puzzle. MMA will need to show that he is still a contender for the throne this MLG, by defending his title and acquiring the Code S spot.
MarineKingPrime.WE 2011 SK Gaming Asia Champions Trophy July
2011 Sony Ericsson GSL Sponsorship League Season 1: Code S
2011 Gainward PlayXP.com StarCraft II Tournament
2010 GSTAR StarCraft 2 All-Star Tournament
2010 Sony Ericsson Global StarCraft 2 League Open Season 2
MarineKing MarineKingPrime is a player that needs no introduction. He changed the TvZ match up by showing us his amazing marine splits vs Kyrix in GSL 2. However, Marine King is also known as the King of Silver. He has been beaten by MVP in finals twice, and chokes every time he is sent out in the team league. If MKP can deal with his nerve issues then is a very big contender for the throne. UPDATE: DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T WATCHED GSL UP AND DOWN MATCHES + Show Spoiler +
MKP was knocked into code a changing my opinion on him. I think he needs to get his shit together and start playing like he used too.
"Look at your body. Now back to mine. Now back to your body. Now back to mine. Sadly, your isn't mine. But if you stop lurking TL and work on your game, your body could look like mine. Look down, back up. Where are you? You're in a thread about the body you wish your body could look like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the mouse you wish you could use just like me. Look again. YOUR RANK IS NOW DIAMOND. Anything is possible when your body looks like mine and not JulyZerg's. I'm on a horse."- Nada’s Body poster oGsNada Achievements: Owner of the Nada’s Body thread BW Bonjwa Nada is one of the most consistent players out there. He posts good round of 8 results while studying in one of the best universities in Korea and maintaining his sexy body. He also performs well in the team leagues. Nada plays a safe and solid style of every matchup and has had an amazing BW career, he also is the only progamer with a thread devoted to is body. Once Nada is out of school I feel that will become a top contender again. OptimusPrime.WE Achievements: 2011 LG Cinema 3D GSL Super Tournament
2011 SK Gaming Asia Champions Trophy (April)
2011 SK Gaming Asia Champions Trophy (February)
2011 GSL March Code S Wildcard Selection Optimus is the BEST TvP player anywhere in the world. Polt is 19-5 in TvP and has a 100% record vs MC. Polt had mixed success during his early career but he bounced back and became a beast. Polt won the Super Tournament by demolishing MMA 4-0. Polt plays a very solid play style and comes prepared for the opponent he is going to face. He came into the Super Tournament games prepared and ready to roll. If he continues to play so solidly I can see him going far. Bomber Accomplishments: 1st 2011 LG Cinema 3D GSL Sponsorship League Season 3: Code A 1st 2011 SK Gaming Asia Champions Trophy (March) 1st 2011 iCCup Map Series Invitational #1 - Startale 2nd 2010 Danawa Cup YGosu.com Invitational Overview: Bomber is one of the fastest upcoming Terrans throughout the entire world. In Korea, Bomber was rumored to be a ladder beast defeating many top players. We weren’t introduced to him until the first season of GSTL where he defeated LosirA and was defeated by MVP in an epic game to be remembered for a long time. He eventually qualified for Code A and took first place over MVP 4-2. In the GSL Super tournament, the GSTL, and the current season of code S, he proved he can hang with the big boys and take games off of a number of players. What is Bombers weakness? His TvT and TvP seem to be impeccable and Bomber is not afraid to mix in a few all ins here and there, but his TvZ is far from spectacular with losses to both Moon and Nestea. Furthermore, Bomber’s arrogance may prove to be his downfall with his constant dancing and manner mules which may very well be his defeat. For now though, Bomber will continue to drop his manner mules as he continues to dominate. sC Accomplishments: 2nd 2011 LG Cinema 3D StarCraft 2 3D Special League Overview: When fOu first took the GSL Open by storm, it was clear that sCfOu was not the best on the team being overshadowed by his teammates aLive and Leenock. However, recently, this has changed. sC has proven himself time and time again that he is a top Terran throughout the GSL. He has brought the Zerg king Nestea to his limits in a Bo5 that will always be remembered and has competed with the like of DongRaeGu and many other top players. He is also his team’s ace and is called upon in times of need showing fantastic play. Overall, sC seems to be solid in all match ups his weakest being TvP with a recent loss to NSHoseoSage. Will sC continue to get better and better? I think so. With the recent partnership with FXO, he will now receive salary, begin streaming, and has many new practice partners. I wouldn’t be surprised to see all this motivate sC to become the best Terran around. PuMa Accomplishments: 1st :2011 North American Star League Season 1 1st: 2011 North American Star League Season 1 Open Tournament Overview: PuMa has a reputation of being a practice bonjwa and is said to have been the practice partner of the legendary Flash (Though I’m skeptical of how much they practiced together, which many forum goers over exaggerate). He seemed to have popped up out of nowhere scoring a three kill in GSTL against the likes of Optimus and MKP. Continuing this success, he proceeded to win the NASL open bracket against TSLaLive which gave him the opportunity to compete against the worlds finest at the NASL Finals. Being the 16th seed, his victory seemed unlikely, yet PuMa utterly dismantled his opponents and finished the tourney in 1st place winning an intense final match vs ogsMC 4-3. Overall, PuMa doesn’t seem to have any weak matchups at all showing dominant play versus all three races. PuMa, hungry for more international titles, has joined the foreigner team EG. Will PuMa have continued international success, or will joining team EG prove to be his downfall without a Korean team house environment? All in all, PuMa is one Terran to watch out for. ThorZaIN Accomplishments: 1st 2011 PokerStrategy.com TeamLiquid StarLeague Overview: ThorZain seemed to have come out of nowhere and overtook the foreigner world by storm. He overcame all odds defeating players like Fruitdealer, Kas, MC, and Naniwa to take the TSL 3 title. He has shown a variety of builds and timing attacks with unique usage of thors, quick bio upgrade timing attacks, and solid ghost builds. His next big tourney was at MLG where he proved he could compete without preparation in the brutal open bracket and pool play and ended up placing top 20. ThorZain has proven that with proper preparation, he can beat the best of the best with his weakest match up being TvT. With his move to Korea to compete in GSL, will ThorZain continue to prove he can play with the best of the best? We will eventually find out.
Honorable Mentions: RainBOw – Rainbow took 2nd place GSL Open Season 1 and 4th place GSL Open Season 2. Rainbow has fallen off the radar since then which is a shame because I miss his dominance from beta. He is definitely slumping and was knocked out of GSL code A by the loveable little Leenock, but recently, Rainbow has shown some of his old skill back. He now streams his ladder matches which I highly recommend you all watch and is a highly ranked grand master player on both the Korean ladder and the NA ladder. BoxeR- No need to explain here. Boxer was a BW legend, but has declined in skill recently. If he can work out his shoulder issues and focuses more on playing rather than team management, I expect him to do well at MLG. Make sure to cheer for the Emperor :D Hack- Hack’s notable achievements include all killing team FXO and multiple high placing in small Teamliquid weekly tourneys. He now streams his Korean ladder games which I suggest you all watch and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in GSL Code A next season. qxc- He’s the bandana man, what else can I say? When not studying for university, qxc has proven to be a practice animal playing for 10 + hours a day. He has recently proven his skills by all killing team IM which everyone thought was impossible. If he keeps practicing, there is no doubt in my mind that qxc will continue to post good results and at the very least become a top foreigner Terran. Kas- From TSL and many European tournaments, Kas has proven to be a Ukranian beast. If he can work on his nerve issues, I can see him becoming a dominant player. SeleCT- At one point, Select was probably the best foreigner Terran but I’m not so sure anymore. With his lack luster MLG run, I expect big things from you this time around mister! :S TheStC- He used to be the Terran king of the beta, but unfortunately, he had to adhere to Korean military service. But now he’s back and better than ever! He just barely missed out on Code A this season but expect more and more of him in the weeks to come. TOP- TOP is an incredibly solid macro Terran and if he can work on some micro issues, expect him to become a top tier Terran in the future. YoDa- Yoda has proven to be pivotal in IM team for the GSTL scoring big wins. He also did well in Code A this season. With MVP on his team, expect Yoda to become big. aLive- Alive is reported to be TSL’s best player and it’s especially true with PuMa’s departure. He hasn’t done well in GSL, but has played really well in Korean ICCUP weekly’s. Overall, he’s a solid Terran. Jjakji- He was kind of out of nowhere, but so where all NSHoseo players :p. Jjakji all killed FXO and does well in Korean ICCUP weekly tournaments and is rumored to be NSHoseo’s best player. I can see Jjakji in code A next season. Byun- I’m so glad he’s getting his puppy! :D Byun has had solid Code S runs and has defeated many top tier players in both GSL and GSTL. I expect Byun to go far. BitByBit- If he ever returns, I can see BitbyBit taking the world by storm. BitbyBit is a legend and has proven time and time again that safe solid play is not better than his allins. BITBYYYYYYYYYYBIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!! :D TheBest- He has amazing banshee control :p
Conclusion: In my personal opinion, at the highest level of play, many of the terrans are too close in skill to accurately determine which terran is the best terran. But i want to hear your opinions :D !!! Credit: I give credit to two people: 1. Horse...falcon who made a thread about the zergking who i based my thread after hehe :3 2. And my friend Lee365
Edit 1: I forgot Polts write up lol Edit 2: Forgot to tlpd boxer. HOW COULD I????
Gehhh... it should be MVP, but he's been slumping so hard recently. He was dominant in a way even Nestea never was at the beginning of the year (including destroying Nestea in a series), but he hasn't made any noise for so long. I hope he shows us his true mettle at MLG Anaheim.
That said, I just went with my sentimental favorite, MKP. He can be very inconsistent, but he's made more finals than any other terran, and changed the metagame so much by introducing bio based builds in every matchup and pioneering terran aggression on zerg back when Terran was lost in that matchup after the reaper nerf.
People who vote for MMA or Puma on the basis of winning foreigner tournaments with weak player pools and Bo1 GSTL performance are silly, though.
EDIT: Also, Bomber has to be the most overrated terran, built on pure Artosis hype. Have you seen his vZ? :/
Wow this is actually a ton harder than the Zerg king. I ultimately ended up voting for Bomber but MVP, Puma, SC, and Optimus were all super major considerations.
And nice job giving an overview of so many people!
Edit: I voted based on who I thought was strongest right now.
MVP is still king, there is no terran as invincible as Nestea is for zerg, but I think he has been practicing hard to give us foreign fans a good showing :3
On July 26 2011 17:15 Kraznaya wrote: Gehhh... it should be MVP, but he's been slumping so hard recently. He was dominant in a way even Nestea never was at the beginning of the year (including destroying Nestea in a series), but he hasn't made any noise for so long. I hope he shows us his true mettle at MLG Anaheim.
That said, I just went with my sentimental favorite, MKP. He can be very inconsistent, but he's made more finals than any other terran, and changed the metagame so much by introducing bio based builds in every matchup and pioneering terran aggression on zerg back when Terran was lost in that matchup after the reaper nerf.
People who vote for MMA or Puma on the basis of winning foreigner tournaments with weak player pools and Bo1 GSTL performance are silly, though.
I agree to some extent. I myself voted for IMMVP and hope he shows who the king is with a dominating performance at MLG
I gotta go with MVP, even with the recent slump. Two GSL titles and all the skills we know he possesses speak for them self. Foreigner terran king? T-Zain easily.
Bomber has been the most impressive lately. I still think his TvT is the best and his TvP is one of the best in the world as well. TvZ needs work, but compared to every other terran I see him having 2 of the most dominant match ups in the world and he's beaten just about everyone notable in them.
MVP was the best about 2 months ago no doubt, but it seems he's been passed up.
Some of the other contenders don't really hold a candle to these 2 and I can't see how you could make an argument to say they're better. Talking about particularly nada and thorzain, but at least QXC isn't in there..
ugh i want to vote for NaDa just because...you know. Honestly, no terran is really dominant at all right now. MC is the BossToss and Nestea is the god zerg, but none of the terran players are consistently that great. MVP is awesome but i feel that winning 2 championships against the same person is not incredibly significant, considering he hasn't really built much off of that.
No 1 outright king right now, MVP yea but he's not always winning, if u compare the level of domination of nestea w/ zerg and mvp with terran it doesn't compare
I would say in his prime, MVP was definitely the Terran King. He was extremely solid in TvT and TvZ. He had some obscene win percentage if I call for a while in TvT and he was at one point 7-1 vs Nestea in TvZ... so that speaks for itself. We always point out he's weak in TvP, which is true. But his weak included losses to players like Alicia knocking him down to Code A, and Alicia was SlayerS PvT sniper. However, with the recent drop in dominance from MVP and the lack of any titles for a few months, I believe any reign has come in question if not to an end. I would say the throne of Terran remains unclaimed for the time being, since no one seems to have consistent enough results. 2 GSL championships is incredible, but falling to code A, losing in the code A finals, and getting knocked out in the group stage in successive GSLs is rather lackluster. For a time, MMA and MKP looked to be the two challengers to the throne. The amazing GSTL performance (including defeating MVP in an epic match to clinch the championship), MLG win, and Super Tournament Final Appearance dominating all Terrans on the way looked to qualify MMA. Then Polt went on to crush him 4-0 as we all know and Puzzle knocked MMA completely out of GSL. Hard to be called the King when you aren't in GSL. Sorry MMA. Then we have MKP. I love him as a player, but 0-3 in finals... you just can't look kindly on it when you want to call someone a king. A king should be dominant and when you fail under pressure, you just don't qualify. I think with more and more exceptional Terrans stepping up and veterans staying strong [Nada, Bomber, sC, MKP, MMA, MVP, etc... pretty much your list in the OP] there is just too much variance in play and not enough consistent results for the time being to declare anyone the Terran king.
Unlike the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran throne seems to be competed over fiercely by many top tier Terrans. While I would have said that MVP was the king of the Terrans a few months back, he seems to have fallen off and slumped a bit recently. Of course, if we want to talk about who's the most accomplished Terran, it would be indisputably MVP (followed by MKP with his throng of silver medals). Its rather hard to judge who is the best Terran right now.
If I had to group the strongest Terrans together this would be how it looks like within that category overall, including each of the best match ups (some players are inconsistently left out because I feel that they aren't all that great or haven't proven themselves):
The Definite Best Terrans 1. MVP 2. Bomber 3. MarineKing
* TvTing his way through to the semi-finals, taking out MVP, sC, NaDa and Bomber ** Dismantling and outplaying MMA in the finals, who TvT'd his way to the finals
Best TvP 1. Polt (Optimus)* 2. Bomber 3. MarineKing
* Yeah sure his opponents play terribly but he holds a 4-0 record against MC and held a 100% win rate before Killer took a game off of him in a close match
There is no Terran King. A few months ago I would have said MVP, but he has fallen off since then. He hasn't done much since his last GSL Championship. He dropped to Code A, made it back to Code S, but really hasn't made any noise since then.
The rest just haven't done enough to claim they deserve the throne over another. Puma, MMA, and Optimus all have large tournament wins under their belts, but have faltered in other tournaments.
There are just so many damn good Terran players that its impossible to say who is king. Nestea and MC are pretty much better than any other Z or P, especially Nestea. We just don't see that from anyone that plays Terran.
There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
well no noticeable terran been dominating so far. It safe to say that zerg is currently flavor of the month it seems. After finding out that baneling were quiet good against protoss army, the balance of power of the 3 races kind of even out again. So hard to say who is really good anymore :/
Im glad to see alot of people voted with their minds and not who their favorite is. I think its unreal to pick a true terran champion simply because there are so many top tier terrans
There is no Terran king like there is a Zerg King. No terran in the game is as well rounded and dominant like Nestea. Heck I don't think any are as well rounded as MC is for Protoss
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
Boxer without doubt. A King doesn't need to be the strongest Warrior in his domain as long as he is the most noble one.
Anyways: MVP is in a serious slump. Puma is imho overrated, except for the NASL the other recent games i've seen of him were just Code A level with weak mechanics. MarineKing is quite unstable in his performance. I think Bomber, NaDa and MMA are around the same level, depending on the day. Haven't seen Polt, Byun and SC play recently, so i won't say anything about them.
If i take the players of which i have recently seen games, i'd go with: Bomber MMA NaDa PuMa MarineKing MVP
A honorable mention would be QXC, who showed really innovative play in the GSTL. While his opponents definatly weren't Code S, his mechanics, strategy and gamesense was excellent.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
He's done more than taken games... he's beaten them in series. Name one other person in the world who has beaten MVP and MC. Code A is a respectable tournament and Bomber had to go through players who were considered to have top 5 TvTs in the world and he did it VERY convincingly while I think Polt's 4-0 games were less convincing because they were essentially won off of preparation and build orders for 2 of those games.
There is no terran king anymore. Mvp was, Bomber or Polt could have been (but not in the same dominant fashion Mvp was) but it just seems that TvT is random or players choke often lol... (remember when Mvp was 27-1 in TvT? now no one can dominate like that in TvT) Plus it seems that there is no TvZ beast anymore, so it'll be hard for the likes of Bomber to be "best terran" if they are beaten by any good zerg.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
He's done more than taken games... he's beaten them in series. Name one other person in the world who has beaten MVP and MC. Code A is a respectable tournament and Bomber had to go through players who were considered to have top 5 TvTs in the world and he did it VERY convincingly while I think Polt's 4-0 games were less convincing because they were essentially won off of preparation and build orders for 2 of those games.
That would be all well and good... except the Code A championship was literally meaningless (it didn't even have the free slot to Code S back then), and Polt's win was for 100,000 dollars. Quality preparation for BoX series is very important when assessing player quality... just compare the repetoire of LeeSsang to Sea or Leta. Pretty sure I'd rather take Polt's win when assessing players. As for players who have beaten MC in series recently, there's quite a few, including Puma, Losira, HongUn and MKP... (MVP hasn't done well enough in GSL groups to really have a long list of Code S quality players playing him in series).
Im really hoping to see MVP break out of his slump. He really has the ability to be the best terran. His excellent macro and mechanics paired with his incredible decision making really separate him from the rest, with the exception of maybe Bomber.
I think he has been struggling to put all those things together lately, ie his inability to produce decent results. But, if/when he does i think MVP will be the King of Terrans.
As a zerg player, whenever I watch players like MVP, MKP, etc it makes me want to switch to terran. There really isn't a current king, but in the past, it would have been the the winner of the MVP vs MKP race.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
He's done more than taken games... he's beaten them in series. Name one other person in the world who has beaten MVP and MC. Code A is a respectable tournament and Bomber had to go through players who were considered to have top 5 TvTs in the world and he did it VERY convincingly while I think Polt's 4-0 games were less convincing because they were essentially won off of preparation and build orders for 2 of those games.
That would be all well and good... except the Code A championship was literally meaningless (it didn't even have the free slot to Code S back then), and Polt's win was for 100,000 dollars. Quality preparation for BoX series is very important when assessing player quality... just compare the repetoire of LeeSsang to Sea or Leta. Pretty sure I'd rather take Polt's win when assessing players. As for players who have beaten MC in series recently, there's quite a few, including Puma, Losira, HongUn and MKP... (MVP hasn't done well enough in GSL groups to really have a long list of Code S quality players playing him in series).
In terms of raw skill level Bomber is better than Polt, and sometimes the amount of prize money just doesn't matter when assessing that. Bomber did have to go through Nestea in the ro32 after all. Anyone else out of the 64 players and he could have made it much deeper. Sometimes you just get unlucky with your draw. Also, my point wasn't that he's capable of an upset over top 5 players, but that he can consistently beat them and is even favored to at this point.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
He's done more than taken games... he's beaten them in series. Name one other person in the world who has beaten MVP and MC. Code A is a respectable tournament and Bomber had to go through players who were considered to have top 5 TvTs in the world and he did it VERY convincingly while I think Polt's 4-0 games were less convincing because they were essentially won off of preparation and build orders for 2 of those games.
That would be all well and good... except the Code A championship was literally meaningless (it didn't even have the free slot to Code S back then), and Polt's win was for 100,000 dollars. Quality preparation for BoX series is very important when assessing player quality... just compare the repetoire of LeeSsang to Sea or Leta. Pretty sure I'd rather take Polt's win when assessing players. As for players who have beaten MC in series recently, there's quite a few, including Puma, Losira, HongUn and MKP... (MVP hasn't done well enough in GSL groups to really have a long list of Code S quality players playing him in series).
In terms of raw skill level Bomber is better than Polt, and sometimes the amount of prize money just doesn't matter when assessing that. Bomber did have to go through Nestea in the ro32 after all. Anyone else out of the 64 players and he could have made it much deeper. Sometimes you just get unlucky with your draw. Also, my point wasn't that he's capable of an upset over top 5 players, but that he can consistently beat them and is even favored to at this point.
How do you judge raw skill besides hard results? Sure Bomber ran into Nestea in the Ro32... but Nestea lost to TOP, who lost to Polt... and yet Bomber's better than them both in terms of raw skill? Sure, Bomber has shown impressive TvT games, but we're talking about the Terran king, not the King of TvT. Bomber doesn't match up to the top tier of Terrans in terms of his results, which is the only objective way to compare players, and therefore he has no claim to the crown until he does.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
And what have MMA, Byun and SC done? MMA won MLG and fell out of Code A. Byun Code A finalist and Code S semifinalist. SC finished second in the LG tournament, and was a semi finalist in Code S.
Nada has been the most consistent Terran player in GSL. Nada definitely could beat all three of them. Nada could beat anyone on that list and your kidding yourself if you think he can't.
I don't think there is a Terran King atm, no-one is consistently dominating. We had short periods of MVP dom, then MMA dom, but no-one on the level of a NesTea dom
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
He's done more than taken games... he's beaten them in series. Name one other person in the world who has beaten MVP and MC. Code A is a respectable tournament and Bomber had to go through players who were considered to have top 5 TvTs in the world and he did it VERY convincingly while I think Polt's 4-0 games were less convincing because they were essentially won off of preparation and build orders for 2 of those games.
That would be all well and good... except the Code A championship was literally meaningless (it didn't even have the free slot to Code S back then), and Polt's win was for 100,000 dollars. Quality preparation for BoX series is very important when assessing player quality... just compare the repetoire of LeeSsang to Sea or Leta. Pretty sure I'd rather take Polt's win when assessing players. As for players who have beaten MC in series recently, there's quite a few, including Puma, Losira, HongUn and MKP... (MVP hasn't done well enough in GSL groups to really have a long list of Code S quality players playing him in series).
In terms of raw skill level Bomber is better than Polt, and sometimes the amount of prize money just doesn't matter when assessing that. Bomber did have to go through Nestea in the ro32 after all. Anyone else out of the 64 players and he could have made it much deeper. Sometimes you just get unlucky with your draw. Also, my point wasn't that he's capable of an upset over top 5 players, but that he can consistently beat them and is even favored to at this point.
How do you judge raw skill besides hard results? Sure Bomber ran into Nestea in the Ro32... but Nestea lost to TOP, who lost to Polt... and yet Bomber's better than them both in terms of raw skill? Sure, Bomber has shown impressive TvT games, but we're talking about the Terran king, not the King of TvT. Bomber doesn't match up to the top tier of Terrans in terms of his results, which is the only objective way to compare players, and therefore he has no claim to the crown until he does.
If I want to assess someone, I look at who they play in a tournament over how far they get. Someone like Inca can get lucky and make it to a finals by playing favorable opponents who are less than stellar at this point, while Bomber has been able to beat top level players but just fail to finish for whatever reasons.
I don't think Bomber is far ahead of anyone on this list, but if I had to choose the best player it would definitely be him.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
And what have MMA, Byun and SC done? MMA won MLG and fell out of Code A. Byun Code A finalist and Code S semifinalist. SC finished second in the LG tournament, and was a semi finalist in Code S.
Nada has been the most consistent Terran player in GSL. Nada definitely could beat all three of them. Nada could beat anyone on that list and your kidding yourself if you think he can't.
You pretty much made his argument for him by listing their accomplishments:
they've all gotten closer to a championship than Nada :p
If this question were asked several months ago, I would've easily voted for MVP. But right now, I would say there is no king - no terran has been producing consistent results.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
And what have MMA, Byun and SC done? MMA won MLG and fell out of Code A. Byun Code A finalist and Code S semifinalist. SC finished second in the LG tournament, and was a semi finalist in Code S.
Nada has been the most consistent Terran player in GSL. Nada definitely could beat all three of them. Nada could beat anyone on that list and your kidding yourself if you think he can't.
Is that ironic? Because NaDa got outplayed hardcore by Byun...
Too close to call. There are so many top tier terrans, but there is no clear cut favorite. MVP used to be the best by far, but about 2 months ago he started slumping and he hasn't done well since. MKP is good, but is pretty inconsistent. He goes from finals in one GSL to up/downs in another. Nada is solid all around, but can't get very far in tournaments. Clide deserves a mention, because he is definitely consistent, but like Nada, he can't get far in tourneys. MMA is good, but not great. Byun is solid in all match ups, and definitely can compete with the other top players. Poltimus is solid all around and doesn't get effected by pressure apparently. Puma is good but not even in GSL yet, so I can't call him really top tier. Bomber is sick good, but gets over confident a lot of the time. sC has great micro and builds, and can hang with the best of each race. If I had to do a list, this would be it:
MVP has been performing very poorly lately, only about 50% winratio in his last 15-20 games. Standing out for me is clearly Bomber, although he lost to Byun
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
And what have MMA, Byun and SC done? MMA won MLG and fell out of Code A. Byun Code A finalist and Code S semifinalist. SC finished second in the LG tournament, and was a semi finalist in Code S.
Nada has been the most consistent Terran player in GSL. Nada definitely could beat all three of them. Nada could beat anyone on that list and your kidding yourself if you think he can't.
Nada has NEVER beaten someone that would be considered a top 10 player in the world or anyone really good. The biggest name he's ever beaten is TOP, yes, TOP. Consistency to make ro8s by beating players who are mid or below mid code S level in the past doesn't weigh much when making a list like this that assesses who the best terrans are.
And yes, thank you for listing the achievements so I didn't have to, but all those are more difficult than getting to the ro8 the way nada did.
MVP says terran is the weakest race on the large gsl maps then begins "slumping" O_O
(BE warned certain GSL spoilers will be mentioned briefly in the following post)
But yeah right now I'd say there is definitely no Terran king, its really difficult to truly tell when GSL is pretty much the only tournament in Korea and some players just get lucky or have easier matches then others, especially considering certain players just have stronger MU's.(Guys the double 3-0 for Zergs is the semis was to be predicted!! not OP)
Bomber is probably closest, but his TvZ definitely needs improvement, and I still cannot understand exactly what happened to make him lose to byun, maybe overconfidence? idk Bomber proved he was much better than byun in the first two games.
So yeah right now? there is no king, if MVP can have a comeback or Bomber can clean up his nerve(?) or overconfidence issues(?) and get as good at TvZ as he is at his other MU's as well as continually improve, he will be probably be the best Terran.
On July 26 2011 18:02 Yew wrote: Too close to call. There are so many top tier terrans, but there is no clear cut favorite. MVP used to be the best by far, but about 2 months ago he started slumping and he hasn't done well since. MKP is good, but is pretty inconsistent. He goes from finals in one GSL to up/downs in another. Nada is solid all around, but can't get very far in tournaments. Clide deserves a mention, because he is definitely consistent, but like Nada, he can't get far in tourneys. MMA is good, but not great. Byun is solid in all match ups, and definitely can compete with the other top players. Poltimus is solid all around and doesn't get effected by pressure apparently. Puma is good but not even in GSL yet, so I can't call him really top tier. Bomber is sick good, but gets over confident a lot of the time. sC has great micro and builds, and can hang with the best of each race. If I had to do a list, this would be it:
I like this list. Yea, Clide deserves a mention because he is untouchable in the ro32 of code S every season. He has yet to lose a bo1 in the group stage. Too bad it doesn't translate further in the tournament. He even beat Nestea in GSL May and Nestea went on to win the tournament. I think Clide is partially hurt by the Artosis hype plus he falls apart in the ro16. I do agree with your list. I think 4-7 is kind of a gray area where depending on how each person is playing that day it could switch. It's kind of hard for me to judge Puma atm until I see more of him. I think MMA might deserve a little more credit. There is definitely no king atm
See the thing is Polt's TvP MVP's TvT MMA's TvZ Are pretty insane, however they are great at those match up and kind of mediocre in the others. We need a solid mechanic player who can mimic the above play styles.
No Terran out there immediately leaps out there to me as the undisputed best in the game. Not even MVP in his prime convinced me that he'd go unopposed for a prolonged period of time. As expected he's fallen from grace.
At the moment I suppose Bomber would be the best, if I HAD to choose someone.
I think there is no king right now (the following list is not an order by ranking btw, just my comments on why each of the nominated players is not really worthy).
1) MVP has been looking really average ever since he won the GSL World Champs. Based on his recent form it's hard to rate him as the "dominant" Terran right now. In some ways it feels like MLG is make or break for him. Can he compete with DRG, MMA and the foreign Protosses? 2) Bomber is still the closest candidate imo. If he beat Byun in the GSL then I think the title would be his. But as it happened he choked, and he still doesn't have any major titles to his name, which makes calling him the Terran King pretty hard. 3) Polt is probably the next closest contender. He could have had this title if he had made it to the GSL semifinals this time around. Unlike Bomber and MMA, Polt doesn't have one matchup which is notably weaker than the others, but he's not as downright scary as them either. 4) MMA is the other main contender for this title. Unfortunately he hasn't even managed to qualify for Code S yet, which makes him kind of like DRG in this respect. If he wins MLG and then storms through Code S next season then he will have a much stronger claim. 5) MKP - always the bridesmaid, and not playing particularly well lately either 6) SC - seemed to be the next big thing after he almost took out Nestea in GSL May, but has kind of faltered since then. He's still his team's Ace, but it's hard to see him realistically challenging for a title at this point 7) Nada - the measure of consistency, but never seems to threaten any of the top few players 8) Puma - won NASL but he's one of the up and coming contenders at the moment, not the king
On July 26 2011 18:02 Yew wrote: Too close to call. There are so many top tier terrans, but there is no clear cut favorite. MVP used to be the best by far, but about 2 months ago he started slumping and he hasn't done well since. MKP is good, but is pretty inconsistent. He goes from finals in one GSL to up/downs in another. Nada is solid all around, but can't get very far in tournaments. Clide deserves a mention, because he is definitely consistent, but like Nada, he can't get far in tourneys. MMA is good, but not great. Byun is solid in all match ups, and definitely can compete with the other top players. Poltimus is solid all around and doesn't get effected by pressure apparently. Puma is good but not even in GSL yet, so I can't call him really top tier. Bomber is sick good, but gets over confident a lot of the time. sC has great micro and builds, and can hang with the best of each race. If I had to do a list, this would be it:
I like this list. Yea, Clide deserves a mention because he is untouchable in the ro32 of code S every season. He has yet to lose a bo1 in the group stage. Too bad it doesn't translate further in the tournament. He even beat Nestea in GSL May and Nestea went on to win the tournament. I think Clide is partially hurt by the Artosis hype plus he falls apart in the ro16. I do agree with your list. I think 4-7 is kind of a gray area where depending on how each person is playing that day it could switch. It's kind of hard for me to judge Puma atm until I see more of him. I think MMA might deserve a little more credit. There is definitely no king atm
Yeah, 4-7 is so hard to rank since any of those guys can beat each other in games or get super far in tournaments. Thanks for liking my list though xD
On July 26 2011 18:10 ooni wrote: See the thing is Polt's TvP MVP's TvT MMA's TvZ Are pretty insane, however they are great at those match up and kind of mediocre in the others. We need a solid mechanic player who can mimic the above play styles.
MVP is slumping hard in TvT, but we haven't see enough of his TvZ lately to judge. It would be Bomber TvT if he hadn't lost to Byun, or Polt if he hasn't lost to Bomber. However MMA is not the best TvZ at all lol. There is no best TvZ until someone manages to beat DongRaeGu in Bo5. Mvp we are waiting for you at MLG
In terms of achievement it's MVP without a doubt. In terms of skill and gameplay at the moment I'd go with Bomber for his TvT and TvP and sC for his TvZ.
I think Polt, Bomber, and MMA have the most potential. Sometimes Terran is like an arms race though, everyone constantly getting better and adapting to new builds and playstyles, some players better suited to one FotM or the other.
One thing is for sure though, no one at this point is even close to Nestea-level dominance yet.
Hmm this is a much better question right now. I would say there is no clear cut king.
MVP is the closest we've had to one but he's just not as dominating as Nestea so I don't forsee a resurgence from him. I would have argued for Bomber before his losses to Byun. His TvZ also doesn't seem to be up to snuff.
Idea: GOM, MAKE A TvT tournament!
Have MVP, MKP, Puma, MMA, Optimus, Bomber, Nada, and sC play an 8 man tournament to determine the king of TvT. All bo7s.
I would probably get tired of it after 2 games but I would love to know the results.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
And what have MMA, Byun and SC done? MMA won MLG and fell out of Code A. Byun Code A finalist and Code S semifinalist. SC finished second in the LG tournament, and was a semi finalist in Code S.
Nada has been the most consistent Terran player in GSL. Nada definitely could beat all three of them. Nada could beat anyone on that list and your kidding yourself if you think he can't.
Is that ironic? Because NaDa got outplayed hardcore by Byun...
So beating someone in one bo3 automatically makes him the better player...
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
I really like that list, and I think it's fair, but nada is still too high up imo. I think everyone below Nada has a shot to take out some great players, but Nada is not capable of beating them, and in fact he gets crushed by them. Nada is consistent in beating lower level players in code S though.
And what have MMA, Byun and SC done? MMA won MLG and fell out of Code A. Byun Code A finalist and Code S semifinalist. SC finished second in the LG tournament, and was a semi finalist in Code S.
Nada has been the most consistent Terran player in GSL. Nada definitely could beat all three of them. Nada could beat anyone on that list and your kidding yourself if you think he can't.
You pretty much made his argument for him by listing their accomplishments:
they've all gotten closer to a championship than Nada :p
But Nada has been closer to the championship more often. And Nada has made it to Code S Semi Finals so the really haven't gotten closer to a championship.
I loved PuMa at NASL. His games were really nice and his reaction after he won, was just something i never saw at a SC 2 player. The crowd gone wild after his win vs MC and thats how it should be. Thats why I would consider him the King of Terran at the moment.
On July 26 2011 18:22 Horse...falcon wrote: Hmm this is a much better question right now. I would say there is no clear cut king.
MVP is the closest we've had to one but he's just not as dominating as Nestea so I don't forsee a resurgence from him. I would have argued for Bomber before his losses to Byun. His TvZ also doesn't seem to be up to snuff.
Idea: GOM, MAKE A TvT tournament!
Have MVP, MKP, Puma, MMA, Optimus, Bomber, Nada, and sC play an 8 man tournament to determine the king of TvT. All bo7s.
I would probably get tired of it after 2 games but I would love to know the results.
All TvTs would take just as long as a 64 man super tourney.
There is no king; no Terran dominates as MVP did even a few months ago. The big question IMO is if the throne will be taken over by one of the known 'elite' Terran or if a second-tier or relative unknown will come through.
If I have to pick a player for a Bo1 against Satan for my soul, though, I'm going with MMA. I really think MMA needs to solve his consistency issues.
I really, really hope QXC's amazing all-kill against IM isn't just a fluke, and will mark a return to his impressive dominance during the beta.
Actually looking at the pure skill and future potential there's the name of possible future Terran King.
- Bomber - MMA - Puma - Byung (a bit far away from the three above)
I don't think that MVP will ever rule the stage again. He's play so much worst than so many other Terran.
MKP is always been overrated imo. He's play style was good only in the first month of the game where pure abuse of marine work. He's still a good player, but surely no the king.
The optimus write up isn't finished, it just ends on an open sentence. Other than that, a pretty good write up of all the talents. Oh, and Thorzain recently said (I think in his fanclub) that TvT is probably his best matchup now, and I would agree with that, his tanks are very good. But yeah, on the topic? Bomber. When playing his best, he is better than all other Terrans, and I would say only worse than Nestea or maybe Losira. Unfortunately he has a tendency to choke, but once he gets past this, I can see a Code S win in the bag.
Right now, in my opinion the best Terran is Bomber.
But is he the king? No. He chokes under pressure and his TvZ isn't as good as it should be yet.
Also, in my opinion, for a player to be crowned the 'King' of a race, threads like this should be unnecessary. If I made a thread asking "Who is the king of Zerg?", every reply would be "It's obviously NesTea.", and I would be ridiculed for asking such an obvious question.
If there is dispute as to who the 'king' is, he does not exist.
EDIT: Suppose I should clarify my point - there currently is no Terran king.
On July 26 2011 19:07 Skydancer wrote: Actually looking at the pure skill and future potential there's the name of possible future Terran King.
- Bomber - MMA - Puma - Byung (a bit far away from the three above)
I don't think that MVP will ever rule the stage again. He's play so much worst than so many other Terran.
MKP is always been overrated imo. He's play style was good only in the first month of the game where pure abuse of marine work. He's still a good player, but surely no the king.
good write-up but the thread seems like it still needs some work. Some icons are showing protoss and also a few players only show the events they appeared in and not the results (look at MMA for example). Currently there is no terran king, I'd say it's a toss up between polt and puma but they need to be consistent and win some more tourneys. I thought it was MMA or MVP but they haven't been able to be consistent as of late which is why my answer still remains that there is no king.
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
So bomber smashes MVP in a Bo7 and he is a tier below MVP and MKP?
I wouldn't classify MVP as the best Terran anymore he's fallen so behind. Bomber is currently number 1 IMO but the Terran top tier changes so much since there's so many great players. There's no untouchables for Terran like MC (P) and NesTea (Z)
King should stand above all the others, Terran clearly doesn't have anyone like that atm.
MvP may have been at his prime but right now, not so much. Bomber hasn't really done that much regardless of how much people hype him and seems to fail at delivering under pressure, I'm not saying he is bad but he ain't the undisputed King either.
I actually think Puma and Thorzain have the best shot at terran king right now. The other terrans are either withering or growing slowly. MMA is drop king.
Only thorzain and puma are showing dominating styles though. Less so for thorzain, but i think that he has amazing builds and if he was in the right practice environment he could start to dominate.
On July 26 2011 20:13 Pingoo wrote: Are you kidding? Thorzain is the man. Thorzain owning !!!
and yet he isnt getting tournament wins recently....
Yeah, because Koreans are in them. He's for sure a contender for the title foreign Terran king though. Honestly, he's such an amazing player with tons of potential that I'm sure he'll quickly climb a tier or two after getting some real practice in Korea.
Back in January Mvp was easily the best player in the entire world. Guy has fallen off a bit but I'm hoping for a comeback. No terran king at this point imo. Hopefully one rises to the throne soon.
There are LOT of strong Terrans though (unlike the other races) that can be relevant at any given time, but I don't see any kind of domination anymore. Bomber is ok, but he never had a pure domination like Mvp had back in January (and yes, I still don't enjoy Bomber's TvZ).
The throne for Terran is currently being held on to, just barely by MVP but at this point anyone could topple him over. In short, he's still on the throne, but barely on the edge and there are plenty of hungry Korean Terrans looking to seize it.
I voted "there is currently no king" because no one is consistent enough in my opinion. But all the players you named in the poll are definitely serious contenders. I think I'll have to wait till GSL August in order to make up my mind.
Terran wont have a king so soon because people are still figuring out how to beat certain builds with certain unit compositions.
It wasn't until recently where koreans start using mech in tvt or start using ghosts in tvt openers. and people are still finding using bio for tvp late game is hard and mixing blue flame hellions here and there.
not so soon, maybe not ever in wings of liberty until maybe we get new units to support the roles of mech such as vultures in the new expansion.
If Rainbow gets honorable mention, Ryung and Ganzi should too. My vote goes to MMA simply because he's my favorite and has the potential and work ethic. Obviously ST finals and onward aren't so great, but MKP and MVP have had serious trouble since then too, in addition to not getting anywhere near the ST finals. But heart aside, Bomber is probably #1 currently.
There is no king, as no Terran is good at all of the matchups.
TvZ King
SC MVP MMA
TvP King
Bomber Optimus
TvT King
Most Terrans are pretty amazing at this matchup lol. We will have to wait till the dust settles on the mech revolution to see how good people actually are. Too many games are decided by 4 blueflame hellions / banshees atm, and don't actually show people who has the best multitasking, decision making, positioning, knowledge of composition, macro. Since all the Terrans are so good, they cannot outclass each other, meaning they cannot get monumental advantages through minor details, but only major advantages from stuff like (I guess I'll drop 4 hellions onto that mineral line). Once the Terrans figure out mech more, and start having better blueflame hellion defence, then we'll see who the real king of TvT is.
Old school TvT king:
MVP Bomber
Edit: also, its kinda funny how Terrans good at TvP are considerably worse at TvZ and vice versa. Is there a Terran that is really really good at both? (Optimus? Maybe??)
I think MVP is on top of the others from my point of view but I know theres been many upcomers and I am keeping an eye on Nada since we know he will shine again!
But right now, I cant really vote anyone so high above an other...
I realize that there are alot of Terrans who are specialist in a particular match up as mentioned in a post earlier, like byun, and polt doing very well for terran and protoss. There is no single Terran who have done exceedingly well consistently in all three match ups yet.
Bomber is the best in the world right now imo. MVP doesn't seem that special recently and Thorzain isn't quite at the same level as the tip top koreans yet.
I can agree with the idea that there is no Terran king atm, but if I was down 0-3 in a team league with all of these guys on my team.(and apparently I did my best imitation of the IM coach with the first 3 picks) I'd send out SC.
currently there are no terrans to look up to, they can mostly lose to anyone, there is no nestea as terran who is the favoured against anyone, terran play and sucess is declining for quite some time now in tournaments
There isn't a clear one, but Bomber is the closest. When he's playing at his best, there are very very few people that can beat him(Nestea is really the only one that comes to mind). The problem is he's not always playing at his best, as seen from his recent games vs Byun where he dominated the first 2 and then got careless.
The only other people you could really argue are MVP and Puma, but one has been slumping lately and the other's only notable achievement is a run through the NASL Open bracket/championship bracket. I could see people putting MVP up there because of past achievements, but as of right now he hasn't been doing enough to claim the throne. And imo it'd be really hard to put Puma up there as he hasn't even qualified for GSL yet. Yea yea, Code A qualifiers are hard, but Losira was able to get through them and win Code A. Bomber and Puzzle were able to do it as well.
There's no right answer right now, because no one clearly stands out. But if you had to pick someone, it'd have to be one of the 3 above, with Bomber being the slight favorite.
On July 26 2011 19:07 Skydancer wrote: Actually looking at the pure skill and future potential there's the name of possible future Terran King.
- Bomber - MMA - Puma - Byung (a bit far away from the three above)
I don't think that MVP will ever rule the stage again. He's play so much worst than so many other Terran.
MKP is always been overrated imo. He's play style was good only in the first month of the game where pure abuse of marine work. He's still a good player, but surely no the king.
Did you mean Ryung or Byun?
He thought they could be like Poltimus and combine into Byung therefore becoming the new terran king.
If MVP wins MLG or atleast Finals. I think hes still the best Terran. I watch Bomber games recently and he been performing consistently in GSL. Its sad to see MarineKing drop to Code A. I hope see him back on top in future. TvT match up has been evolving alot with usage of Mech Army than Bio.
If MVP wins MLG Anahiem.....he is definitely King of Terran for the first year of Starcraft 2.
Looking at the entire year, i would say MVP because he won the most difficult and skilled tourney 2x. Looking only resently i'd say Bomber on pure potential.
The throne remains empty ever since MVP got knocked down into Code A. No one has claimed it yet because there are so many good terrans in the field and it's hard to distinguish oneself for a sustained period.
I think that terrans are too even amongst eachother, polt, bomber or even MMA may shine but generally after their moment of glory they fall back into rank and file of the highest level terrans being very succesful and taking quite a few major tourneys, if polt or bomber can keep up on the their journey up either of them could reach MC/ nestea levels as kings of terran but for now no one.
If I had to chose 1 I would pick MVP. Bomber and sC come close though. Then theres a huge pool of players like MKP, Clide, Byun, MMA, PuMa etc. who are also very good, but I think MVP, Bomber and sC are above them rightnow. I think the best foreign Terran players are Kas, SeleCT and Happy.
On July 26 2011 17:15 Kraznaya wrote: Gehhh... it should be MVP, but he's been slumping so hard recently. He was dominant in a way even Nestea never was at the beginning of the year (including destroying Nestea in a series), but he hasn't made any noise for so long. I hope he shows us his true mettle at MLG Anaheim.
That said, I just went with my sentimental favorite, MKP. He can be very inconsistent, but he's made more finals than any other terran, and changed the metagame so much by introducing bio based builds in every matchup and pioneering terran aggression on zerg back when Terran was lost in that matchup after the reaper nerf.
People who vote for MMA or Puma on the basis of winning foreigner tournaments with weak player pools and Bo1 GSTL performance are silly, though.
EDIT: Also, Bomber has to be the most overrated terran, built on pure Artosis hype. Have you seen his vZ? :/
How can you say that MvP was more dominant than Nestea was when MvP was at his peak in the beginning of the year? Nestea was dominant during the 2nd GSL, not losing a game until the finals and this GSL he has not dopped a map either.
So no, I have to disagree with you. I think it is fair to say that IMmvp dominated around the 4th GSL and onwards until and including another GSL win, but Nestea is the most dominant player in the short history of Starcraft 2.
Bomber looked insanely good against Byun in the first two matches, and then proceeded to fall apart. Too many good terrans right now, hard to say who is the king of Terran.
The (meta) game doesn't favor Terran right now, and there's nobody proving this otherwise. Unless we see some shining beacon when every other Terran is failing, the throne remains empty. This is how it was/is with MC and Nestea, and how it will be with the next Terran King.
Oh come on................ -_-. if any one of these guys existed, and none of the others did, he would be the terran hero. It just happens to be that there are an insane number of excellent terran players. Anyone remember the Super tournament with 8 terrans left?
No other race has this many competitive players at the top fighting for the "king" title.
Just be grateful that you have so many fantastic players.
There is no terran king for the simple fact that after every big T win we have a new bonjwa born (after MLG: MMA BONJWA after super tourney: POLT BONJWA, after NASL: PUMA BONJWA)
Until someone can string along a good set of results through a few tourneys, we won't have a single king on the throne.
On July 27 2011 09:19 amazingoopah wrote: There is no terran king for the simple fact that after every big T win we have a new bonjwa born (after MLG: MMA BONJWA after super tourney: POLT BONJWA, after NASL: PUMA BONJWA)
Until someone can string along a good set of results through a few tourneys, we won't have a single king on the throne.
I really wish bonjwa would be a bannable word in the sc2 sections. It's so frustrating that people throw it around ilke an everday word.
Boxer Puma and Select all belong in the top. I would say PuMa for me is the frontrunner but he really only has the one NASL to back him up... but that final against Mc and the BM mules put him at the top for me.
Boxer is classic... nuff said
Select has some zany strats and is always in Terran conversation...I watch Day9 alot and he is always showing SeleCT and he always doing sweet new builds and redefining terran play but also he can play standard like a boss.
On July 27 2011 09:19 amazingoopah wrote: There is no terran king for the simple fact that after every big T win we have a new bonjwa born (after MLG: MMA BONJWA after super tourney: POLT BONJWA, after NASL: PUMA BONJWA)
Until someone can string along a good set of results through a few tourneys, we won't have a single king on the throne.
I really wish bonjwa would be a bannable word in the sc2 sections. It's so frustrating that people throw it around ilke an everday word.
It's almost as frustrating to see BW fanboys go "omfg did u just relly use da 'b' word? O NOES!!!"
On July 27 2011 13:42 sjschmidt93 wrote: I wouldn't call him king, but I think Puma is the best Terran in the world.
Puma won a NASL and he's the best Terran in the world?
Any foreign tournament is not as hard as code A.
Are you seriously saying beating July and MC is easier than winning Coda A? Not to mention all of the Koreans he beat in the Open Bracket. Also he beat Bboongbboong, MKP, and Polt in GSTL.
On July 27 2011 13:42 sjschmidt93 wrote: I wouldn't call him king, but I think Puma is the best Terran in the world.
Puma won a NASL and he's the best Terran in the world?
Any foreign tournament is not as hard as code A.
Are you seriously saying beating July and MC is easier than winning Coda A? Not to mention all of the Koreans he beat in the Open Bracket. Also he beat Bboongbboong, MKP, and Polt in GSTL.
Yes.. he's the best Terran in the world.
he COULD be the best Terran in the world
but there is absolutely no evidence that he is
one foreign tournament big whoop
I could argue that he didn't even deserve to be there .... he didn't win his division like everyone else had to he came through the open bracket
gun to my head and my life on the line there are at least 4 Terrans I take instead of Puma
On July 27 2011 13:42 sjschmidt93 wrote: I wouldn't call him king, but I think Puma is the best Terran in the world.
Puma won a NASL and he's the best Terran in the world?
Any foreign tournament is not as hard as code A.
Are you seriously saying beating July and MC is easier than winning Coda A? Not to mention all of the Koreans he beat in the Open Bracket. Also he beat Bboongbboong, MKP, and Polt in GSTL.
Yes.. he's the best Terran in the world.
he COULD be the best Terran in the world
but there is absolutely no evidence that he is
one foreign tournament big whoop
I could argue that he didn't even deserve to be there .... he didn't win his division like everyone else had to he came through the open bracket
gun to my head and my life on the line there are at least 4 Terrans I take instead of Puma
Terran doesn't have a king. It's made up of disjointed factions of barons and dukes all vying for power. The only true king is the underground rebel king known as QXC - who rapes face with a quarter of the commitment to the game as other pro Terrans.... Also, he does parkour. And when he streams, does he set himself to busy or not let people message him in game? Hell, no.
oGstheSTC may not be top or anything, but with a few more weeks of practice and more experience, I am definitely expecting him to go into top 3 instantly. As of right now, I honestly cannot think of a Terran who can claim his spot for the next two months. Top three that comes to my mind would probably be (in no particular order): 1) SlayerS`MMA 2) PoltPRIME 3) Puma
When compiling a list of top 10 terrans I don't feel like MarineKing deserves to be on the list anymore. Not just saying that as a reaction to last night's up and down. I feel that in many ways, the game has passed him by.
There is no king anymore, the battle is being fought as we speak!
At this point each player on the list has shown weakness, so I think there is no real King right now. I'm looking forward to seeing who will earn that title over the next few months.
On July 27 2011 14:27 Mista_Masta wrote: At this point each player on the list has shown weakness, so I think there is no real King right now. I'm looking forward to seeing who will earn that title over the next few months.
I totally agree with this but it just seems that the game is to young to claim a king yet. But i'm leaning towards marine king.
On July 27 2011 13:42 sjschmidt93 wrote: I wouldn't call him king, but I think Puma is the best Terran in the world.
Puma won a NASL and he's the best Terran in the world?
Any foreign tournament is not as hard as code A.
Are you seriously saying beating July and MC is easier than winning Coda A? Not to mention all of the Koreans he beat in the Open Bracket. Also he beat Bboongbboong, MKP, and Polt in GSTL.
Yes.. he's the best Terran in the world.
Yes, we are saying that. Bomber beat both of them at Dreamhack as well as beating MVP in a bo7 to win Code A.
No king, but I would put bomber, polt, and puma as the strongest contender ls ATM, with MVP, mma, sc, and top as ppl with good potential. Edit: also byun lol can't believe I forgot puppy Terran, I hope he wins and gets like 5 dogs!
On July 27 2011 15:45 KimJongChill wrote: No king, but I would put bomber, polt, and puma as the strongest contender ls ATM, with MVP, mma, sc, and top as ppl with good potential. Edit: also byun lol can't believe I forgot puppy Terran, I hope he wins and gets like 5 dogs!
Im rethinking two people on the poll... SPOILERS + Show Spoiler +
Back in the begining of the year, MVP was the King but now he fell, so no one right now is the king, but the top 5 Terrans that could be are (in order of who has the best chance):
1.- Bomber 2.- Polt 3.- MVP 4.- NaDa 5.- Tie between MKP, MMA and Puma
absolutely no king. MVP did really well this weekend, against many players who've never played him before... If he now makes a deep run in the next gsl, and gets top 4, then I'd consider him the king.
I think MVP is currently the best Terran. It might only be by a slight hair but I think right now when he sits down and focuses for something he is the best.
I don't think anyone's good enough to be called the Terran King, but the best is probably MVP. Of course there's always MarineKing as a good pun for this thread
tournament win, look at PoltPrime vs MMA, POLT WAS all the rage "OMG HE SO GOOD NEW SUPERSTAR" BEST PLAYER EVER OMG. Then a week later... dies down.
Polt is still a Super Tourney winner with an amazing TvP
MVP is a 2x GSL winner and just won a tourney where the top 8 are all code-S level players.
I would argue that, since he didn't have weeks to prepare to every match, MLG might have been harder to win than a GSL, minus NesTea.
... MLG harder to win then a GSL... ... what... do you even WATCH tournaments? You can't even argue it. (dont get me wrong MLG is a good tournament with top tier players) but it doesn't even compare to the GSL The top 3 was 1 code S player and 2 Code B
MVP has only lost 2 Best of series to Zerg in his sc2 career so far. One to July where he got baneling busted 2 games in a row. the other to Zenio in open season 2, his first time playing GSL.
Please spoiler every comment regarding the outcome of a tournament. Especiall if you're talking about MLG. (Come on, the thing just happened tonight. I'm sure TONS of ppl are still unaware of who won and want to watch the games.)
As for the King discussion, I am officially putting SlayerS_BoxeR back in my list. His performance at MLG was astounding.....
MVP has had the most tournament results, but he has slumped recently in the GSL. If he cam make to RO4 or better next season than the title should be his.
Still no king yet, in my opinion, but MVP is looking really strong again.
The players with the most potential in my opinion are MVP/MMA, Bomber/Byun, Polt/Puma. Funny alliteration going on here. Taking the first letters gives us MBP, which is how Koreans pronounce "MVP". Coincidence?
tournament win, look at PoltPrime vs MMA, POLT WAS all the rage "OMG HE SO GOOD NEW SUPERSTAR" BEST PLAYER EVER OMG. Then a week later... dies down.
Polt is still a Super Tourney winner with an amazing TvP
MVP is a 2x GSL winner and just won a tourney where the top 8 are all code-S level players.
I would argue that, since he didn't have weeks to prepare to every match, MLG might have been harder to win than a GSL, minus NesTea.
In no way on earth is MLG harder to win than Code S. + Show Spoiler +
The only Code S standard players MVP beat all weekend were MMA, Ganzi and DRG and in terms of players actually in Code S he beat none.
Go look at NesTea's bracket last GSL.
It was way easier than MLG up to Losira.
Fact is, sometimes GSL has really hard or really easy sides of a bracket.
July, Coca, Hongun, Losira and Ensnare is not a particularly easy run, and most of those players beat some very good players to get there.
July's zvz is laughable. Can't speak for coca. Hongun isn't particularly impressive either, nor is ensnare.
July beat Sen in ZvZ at Dreamhack, can't be too laughable.
Coca has barely played ZvZ so can't comment on that but his other matchups especially ZvP are very good.
Hongun is really underrated, he beat Supernova, Zenio and MC to reach Nestea. As countless foreign tournaments show you don't just randomly beat those standard of players without being good (given Huk is the only foreigner with any kind of continued success vs Koreans in anything).
Ensnare's pretty weak for a Code S player but he obviously has managed to stay in Code S since the first season for a reason.
On August 01 2011 13:52 KimJongChill wrote: Still no king yet, in my opinion, but MVP is looking really strong again.
The players with the most potential in my opinion are MVP/MMA, Bomber/Byun, Polt/Puma. Funny alliteration going on here. Taking the first letters gives us MBP, which is how Koreans pronounce "MVP". Coincidence?
The fact that there are this many aspirants (together with others I'm sure; you can never write off MKP, TOP gained momentum recently too) just shows that none of the top terrans could dominate long enough to get reasonably ahead in the "Best Terran"-race. So I (agree and) say: currently no1.
tournament win, look at PoltPrime vs MMA, POLT WAS all the rage "OMG HE SO GOOD NEW SUPERSTAR" BEST PLAYER EVER OMG. Then a week later... dies down.
Polt is still a Super Tourney winner with an amazing TvP
MVP is a 2x GSL winner and just won a tourney where the top 8 are all code-S level players.
I would argue that, since he didn't have weeks to prepare to every match, MLG might have been harder to win than a GSL, minus NesTea.
In no way on earth is MLG harder to win than Code S. + Show Spoiler +
The only Code S standard players MVP beat all weekend were MMA, Ganzi and DRG and in terms of players actually in Code S he beat none.
Go look at NesTea's bracket last GSL.
It was way easier than MLG up to Losira.
Fact is, sometimes GSL has really hard or really easy sides of a bracket.
July, Coca, Hongun, Losira and Ensnare is not a particularly easy run, and most of those players beat some very good players to get there.
July's zvz is laughable. Can't speak for coca. Hongun isn't particularly impressive either, nor is ensnare.
I think people just don't give enough credit to the mid-range code S players. We've all seen how fierce code A has become recently, so this makes even staying in Code S that much more impressive, in my opinion. The weaker players like MarineKing, FruitDealer, and Inca--all iconic players in their own right--are already getting quickly weeded out, so I really think that people should take the average Code S players more seriously. Give them the chance to go to MLG, and I'm sure they'd do extremely well.
No love for ZenexByun ? He seems to always be improving, made top 4 in the last GSL, has perhaps the strongest TvT in the world right now (at least in terms of consistency and stamina), and easily one of the smarter, consistent players right now. I would still say MVP is the best terran, only terran right now that is amazingly strong in every matchup (I'd say Bomber's tvz right now is weak) and MVP always plays well and refined. Some say his TvP is slightly weak but I completely disagree, he's very consistent.
I see MVP getting a surge in votes after his win today, but while I'm a huge MVP fan but I don't think winning MLG Anaheim is enough to proclaim him the King of Terrrans. With his 2 GSL championships and a major foreign win he's the closest, but I think he has to get his revenge on Bomber and beat him in a BoX before he can truly reclaim his throne.
Clearly MVP. I don't think there's actually any competition. I'm not just talking about his MLG win. In my eyes he's always been the best terran and the KR triumvirate hasn't been modified since its establishment (I mean MC, MVP and NesTea).
Yes, he's been on somewhat of a slump for a while now, but whenever I see him play I see the spirit of BW channeled into his play. He's solid as a rock, has the safest, most stable play, if not the most creative. MVP has the potential to become a true terran star if he can be more consistent. His macro is flawless, his micro is pretty damn good and he's a tactical genius to boot.
He's also got some of that "cheater terran" thing going on. He just loses an army and suddenly an even larger army is out there. This is somewhat of a unique characteristic of him, and every great player has one of these. For instance, MC always seems to have that tech a few seconds before other protoss players, and NesTea can defend rushes other players can't dream of defending.
Those 3 are the kings of their respective races, the rest can only stare in awe for now.
On August 01 2011 14:00 KimJongChill wrote: The weaker players like MarineKing[...]
wat.
He's been slumping hard, underperforms in GSTL, and has been knocked down into code A. In my opinion, he is no longer a top tier Terran player.
Marineking made it to the semi-finals of the super tournament (and was up 2:0) not even 2 months ago and fell down in like the sickest code s group, losing to Alicia and Losira.
I mean he had some bad results lately, but he is not a "weaker code s"-player because of that, just not playing up to his potential. (The fact that his tvt-style doesn't really work anymore doesn't help either...)
On August 01 2011 14:23 StReEtWaLkeR wrote: Just like I predicted MVP to win MLG Anaheim to unanimously be the best Terran in the planet. Congrats to IM & MVP.
How does that unanimously make him the best terran? Cause he won a $5000 NA tournament beating Code B Terrans? Lol.
I'm sure ST Bomber, MKP, Optimus, FXOsc would have something to say about that.
There's too many good Terrans right now, it's impossible to tell MarineKing is nowhere near one of them, his style is just too cheesy and people figured out how to counter it, sort of like a less extreme version of Bitbybit. There are better terrans with more consistent playstyles and even when he tried to live up to his name by going pure marines/few tanks vs Losira, he gets destroyed
MVP currently the most impressive with titles. Nada the most consistent over time. They both can play different styles with more-than-solid macro, but MVP just does it better at the moment.
Well we need some criteria what makes a king. I will go by accomplishments and by far MVP is the most accomplished sc2 terran. So he is the current terran king imo.
MVP is definitively the best Terran at the moment IMO.
He does get caught off-guard by cheese and beaten by weaker players more often then he should, and Bomber seems to be a Kryptonite for him in TvT for some reason.
But when he's come up against the other GSL champions, he shows he's on the same level as NesTea just not as consistent, and he completely dominated MC both times I saw them play.
Bomber is even more shaky and inconsistent then MVP. MMA is his closest rival for best Terran but isnt as solid. MarineKing, I'm not sure he was ever near their level, I think he might fade away like Fruitdealer.
Just look at his games vs Nestea, he played a mega defensive macro style perfectly then went on in the next game to dismantle him with an unexpected 2rax (because Bel'Shir is known not to be so good for 2raxing)
On August 26 2011 21:27 Elem wrote: IMMvp. PuMa might challenge soon, but no one else is close imo.
Unless Puma returns to Korea (which I know he will soon, but it'll be with the EG guys) and is able to practice in a house with other Koreans I can't see that happening. I mean, the guy is an amazing player, one of the best for sure, but even if he practices with other Koreans online he's missing out on a lot.
MVP, he has the more prestigious tournament results, the only reason he doesnt seem as prominant as NesTea and MC is because how good terran is as a race in korea, its very strong and very popular and a lot of very good players use terran.
but at the end of the day MVP has been the most powerful in the last year in terms of results, he has 2 GSLs and an MLG under his belt
If anyone at this very moment, it's Optimus. Though he has not been getting the respect he deserves. So it's fair to say there is no king at the moment. Though with MVP's current performance, it's gonna be between him and Optimus.
TOP is so underrated. He's very consistent and gave Polt a run for his money in the super tourney. it's definitely MVP though. He would destroy any player in the world in a Bo7 probably cept maybe MC (once the 1/1/1 gets figured out)
I can't quite remember who said it, but it was some Code S player back around the time MVP got first GSL win:
"Boxer is the emperor and MVP is the king"
I think this is pretty much true.
Also, I believe this poll/thread was made around the time that MVP wasn't posting all too good results, dropping out of GSL July etc. If this poll was made in light of recent results, MVP would easily rank #1 in my opinion.
On July 26 2011 17:15 Kraznaya wrote: Gehhh... it should be MVP, but he's been slumping so hard recently. He was dominant in a way even Nestea never was at the beginning of the year (including destroying Nestea in a series), but he hasn't made any noise for so long. I hope he shows us his true mettle at MLG Anaheim.
That said, I just went with my sentimental favorite, MKP. He can be very inconsistent, but he's made more finals than any other terran, and changed the metagame so much by introducing bio based builds in every matchup and pioneering terran aggression on zerg back when Terran was lost in that matchup after the reaper nerf.
People who vote for MMA or Puma on the basis of winning foreigner tournaments with weak player pools and Bo1 GSTL performance are silly, though.
EDIT: Also, Bomber has to be the most overrated terran, built on pure Artosis hype. Have you seen his vZ? :/
On July 26 2011 17:15 Kraznaya wrote: Gehhh... it should be MVP, but he's been slumping so hard recently. He was dominant in a way even Nestea never was at the beginning of the year (including destroying Nestea in a series), but he hasn't made any noise for so long. I hope he shows us his true mettle at MLG Anaheim.
That said, I just went with my sentimental favorite, MKP. He can be very inconsistent, but he's made more finals than any other terran, and changed the metagame so much by introducing bio based builds in every matchup and pioneering terran aggression on zerg back when Terran was lost in that matchup after the reaper nerf.
People who vote for MMA or Puma on the basis of winning foreigner tournaments with weak player pools and Bo1 GSTL performance are silly, though.
EDIT: Also, Bomber has to be the most overrated terran, built on pure Artosis hype. Have you seen his vZ? :/
Even though my love will always lie with MarineKing, I must say that right now, MVP is the best terran. It seems to me that, whenever MVP acutally takes a game seriously and practices hard enough, he can beat anyone (for example MC and Nestea). Im putting my money on him to take next this GSL. I still voted that there is no current king, because even if MVP is the best, he is not "best enough".
Terran have been so inconsistent, even Bomber, MVP and MKP. MVP's recent run definitely puts him on the top of the list but we'll have to see how well he can maintain it.
sooo hard to crown one person as the king of terran, there's always a different terran topping eachother as the game continues to progress... i'd LIKE to say PuMa but the majority of the people listed in the poll could also fit the bill
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
so MVP crushing MLG and taking first place and MKP crushing sase 2-0 in the CPL china finals is a slump? i think you missed the boat by a month or 2 on their "slumps".
MVP is the best right now, but I wouldn't say the king. There is too many terrans close to him, he needs to be unquestionably the right bet on a Bo3 in order to be the king.
As much as I love NaDa, his consistency is great but personally I don't think that his GSTL or his GSL accomplishments amount to being a Terran King yet. I mean he hasn't scored any AKs and he hasn't gone closer than Ro4 in the GSL.
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
so MVP crushing MLG and taking first place and MKP crushing sase 2-0 in the CPL china finals is a slump? i think you missed the boat by a month or 2 on their "slumps".
LOOOOOOOL. I loved your last sentence about how he missed the boat by a month because he posted it a month ago.
as out of hand as my mvp fanboyism is, its pretty hard to call him the outright king of terran atm since bomber, puma, mma, etc. are all so ridiculously good and code A/S are both obscenely stacked with mostly great terran players. i'd call mvp the best terran overall, but he isnt far enough ahead of his peers to comfortably claim the title of 'king' in the same way that nestea reigns over the zerg race, or to a lesser extent, mc for protoss.
There are hundreds of terran kings, the question is, who is the terran god? ( seriously top tier terrans are so far ahead of the curve, props to them )
On August 27 2011 01:22 Chaosvuistje wrote: There are hundreds of terran kings, the question is, who is the terran god? ( seriously top tier terrans are so far ahead of the curve, props to them )
ye there are so many good terrans.
While other races only have maybe 2(nestea and puzzle, others are very inconsistent ) max top players.
Sucks cause when when they slump they call terran imba :< and since no one else is any good, terran is nerfed.
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
so MVP crushing MLG and taking first place and MKP crushing sase 2-0 in the CPL china finals is a slump? i think you missed the boat by a month or 2 on their "slumps".
LOOOOOOOL. I loved your last sentence about how he missed the boat by a month because he posted it a month ago.
On July 26 2011 17:25 Fionn wrote: There is no king. If Poltimus had gotten through Bomber and then beaten Byun, the throne would be his. MVP had the throne for a long time, but he's been slumping in the GSL/GSTL for a while. Bomber had his chance to take it by winning the tournament and beating Nestea, but he blew a 2-0 lead in the quarterfinals. SC hasn't won any titles. Nada is very consistent, but has never even been to a finals. MarineKing is slumping hard at the moment. Byun got 3-0'd in his only semifinals. Puma is a weird case; he won NASL, but he's never even qualified for Code A. He beat MKP and Poltimus in the GSTL, but he' still needs to get into the GSL or rack up a ton more foreign titles against top players.
Right now, I would probably say, with the closest chance of taking over the throne:
What has Bomber done to justify winning the #1 ranking? Sure, he's taken games off all of the rest of them, but he's never actually strung together a respectable run... the closest he got was at Dreamhack and he got stopped by Moon of all people.
(And don't claim the Code A crown over MVP as some kind of championship, the match was basically meaningless in terms of Code S qualification and in terms of GSL rankings, even the champion of Code A is only equal with the bottom rung of Code S.)
He's done more than taken games... he's beaten them in series. Name one other person in the world who has beaten MVP and MC. Code A is a respectable tournament and Bomber had to go through players who were considered to have top 5 TvTs in the world and he did it VERY convincingly while I think Polt's 4-0 games were less convincing because they were essentially won off of preparation and build orders for 2 of those games.
That would be all well and good... except the Code A championship was literally meaningless (it didn't even have the free slot to Code S back then), and Polt's win was for 100,000 dollars. Quality preparation for BoX series is very important when assessing player quality... just compare the repetoire of LeeSsang to Sea or Leta. Pretty sure I'd rather take Polt's win when assessing players. As for players who have beaten MC in series recently, there's quite a few, including Puma, Losira, HongUn and MKP... (MVP hasn't done well enough in GSL groups to really have a long list of Code S quality players playing him in series).
In terms of raw skill level Bomber is better than Polt, and sometimes the amount of prize money just doesn't matter when assessing that. Bomber did have to go through Nestea in the ro32 after all. Anyone else out of the 64 players and he could have made it much deeper. Sometimes you just get unlucky with your draw. Also, my point wasn't that he's capable of an upset over top 5 players, but that he can consistently beat them and is even favored to at this point.
How do you judge raw skill besides hard results? Sure Bomber ran into Nestea in the Ro32... but Nestea lost to TOP, who lost to Polt... and yet Bomber's better than them both in terms of raw skill? Sure, Bomber has shown impressive TvT games, but we're talking about the Terran king, not the King of TvT. Bomber doesn't match up to the top tier of Terrans in terms of his results, which is the only objective way to compare players, and therefore he has no claim to the crown until he does.
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
so MVP crushing MLG and taking first place and MKP crushing sase 2-0 in the CPL china finals is a slump? i think you missed the boat by a month or 2 on their "slumps".
LOOOOOOOL. I loved your last sentence about how he missed the boat by a month because he posted it a month ago.
im pretty sure MVP will win this GSL and than its just a matter of time till everyone is calling him a "bonjwa" and will only argue about him or nestea being better and with 2 GSL wins and the Run at MLG Anaheim its pretty sure he is the best terran in the world right now.
I think I would say Boxer is also the King at Terran, perhaps not in the sense that he wins a lot or is dominating or such, but because he really brings out Terran's characteristics in his play . Boxer even likes trolling (giving yellow sc2 box at his retirement, etc.), which fits Terran lore because Terrans rely on trickery and guerrilla tactics to overcome the difference in technology or number or etc etc that the Protoss and Zerg have xD
On August 29 2011 06:49 ICanFlyLow wrote: Wheres Jinro?
In code B.
Ouch. But yes, unfortunately, Jinro can't be considered as "King of Terran" at this point by anyone's approximations. A very skilled player, but not the best of the best.
"Look at your body. Now back to mine. Now back to your body. Now back to mine. Sadly, your isn't mine. But if you stop lurking TL and work on your game, your body could look like mine. Look down, back up. Where are you? You're in a thread about the body you wish your body could look like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the mouse you wish you could use just like me. Look again. YOUR RANK IS NOW DIAMOND. Anything is possible when your body looks like mine and not JulyZerg's. I'm on a horse."- Nada’s Body poster (
Thank you for quoting me? Lol. But results wise, I don't think anyone can argue with MVP as the #1 Terran so far, when you look at it...MC is slumping now, and MVP just recently 2-0'd Nestea. Although I would say TLnet immortality is a better achievement haha.
On September 10 2011 21:18 Azzur wrote: Imo, he hasn't done enough yet. Another season like this and I'm ready to call him one
He hasn't done enough? What has NesTea done to achieve his Zerg King status? 3 GSLs? Oh wait, MVP's done that now. Prove himself at international tournaments? MLG. Where are the terrans that's even close to matching him in terms of achievements and skill on display? None. MVP is the Terran King. End of discussion.
On September 10 2011 21:01 Tuk wrote: 3 gsls i guess MVP is the king and probably as good as nestea
MVP destroys NesTea.
NesTea has always said MVP is his fear. MVP owns all. But there are snipers out for him. overall its MVP fo sho
Mvps best MU is ZvT. Nesteas worst is ZvT
Are you sure about that... his tvt is looking really good... and his tvp.. When all his matchups look that sexy you really cant say one is worse than another
On September 10 2011 21:19 RogerX wrote: MVP has done very well as of recent however,
marine KING prime. So technically he is the king of marines, marines = terran symbolism = terran = MKP = King
Ok MKP might be the King of marines because he contols his rines like no other. But MVP is nuKING like no other -> so hes the "new KING of nuKING" = 2 times King in his title ergo MVP is twice as much King as MKP
PuMa Accomplishments: 1st :2011 North American Star League Season 1 1st: 2011 North American Star League Season 1 Open Tournament Overview: PuMa has a reputation of being a practice bonjwa and is said to have been the practice partner of the legendary Flash (Though I’m skeptical of how much they practiced together, which many forum goers over exaggerate). He seemed to have popped up out of nowhere scoring a three kill in GSTL against the likes of Optimus and MKP. Continuing this success, he proceeded to win the NASL open bracket against TSLaLive which gave him the opportunity to compete against the worlds finest at the NASL Finals. Being the 16th seed, his victory seemed unlikely, yet PuMa utterly dismantled his opponents and finished the tourney in 1st place winning an intense final match vs ogsMC 4-3. Overall, PuMa doesn’t seem to have any weak matchups at all showing dominant play versus all three races. PuMa, hungry for more international titles, has joined the foreigner team EG. Will PuMa have continued international success, or will joining team EG prove to be his downfall without a Korean team house environment? All in all, PuMa is one Terran to watch out for.
"Look at your body. Now back to mine. Now back to your body. Now back to mine. Sadly, your isn't mine. But if you stop lurking TL and work on your game, your body could look like mine. Look down, back up. Where are you? You're in a thread about the body you wish your body could look like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the mouse you wish you could use just like me. Look again. YOUR RANK IS NOW DIAMOND. Anything is possible when your body looks like mine and not JulyZerg's. I'm on a horse."- Nada’s Body poster
On September 10 2011 22:10 Mr.Brightside wrote: + Show Spoiler +
Cliiiiide.
No doubt.
cliiide? this is so 2010, hahaha (sorry im drunk)
But in all seriousness, MVP is the King at the moment. Atleast he is my King. Sadly one of his big problems since forever are his slumps. In BW it was the same story, sometimes he played almost S-Class then a month later he lost to mediocre players by making stupid mistakes. And in SC2 it could be the same.
Another T that shows similar potential would be Puma. But im not shure if he will evolve in EG as much as he could have if he stayed in a Korean Team. I doubt EG is able to provide the same high class coaching as the korean teams do. Although i hope im wrong, because i really wanna see the ubermonster that Puma could become. (gogo EG buy a korean high class coach, your other players would benefit too :D )
MVP is king again, though the poll was definitely accurate as there was no king at the time it was made.
I still think that during his slump MVP was highly underrated and after his MLG win I think he was then somewhat over-hyped, but as of more recently especially after his GSL run/3rd GSL victory he has proven himself to without a doubt be the Terran king.
New poll, Mvp. Right now it is quite clear, he has reached a level of understanding of all 3 matchups this GSL season (quite possibly the most impressive run in GSL I've ever seen - defeating players with an accumulated 6 GSL trophies without dropping a single game, what?!). There's just not much doubt anymore. New poll, it's gonna be Mvp.
Out of all the terrans listed in that poll, I don't think any of those can win a BO5 or BO7 against MVP. Except only Bomber and MMA, which would be very close games judging from recent games. That is just his TvT matchup with a winrate of 70%.
In other matchups, he is very very solid. His record against toptier players can;t be matched with any other Terrans. TvZ winrate: 78%.(Positive record against Nestea, July and Losira) TvP winrate: 62%.(Positive record against MC, HuK, Tester.) Protoss is arguably his worst matchup with 62%. Still pretty solid imo.
Also, he is the Terran that has won the most prestigious tournaments. + Show Spoiler +
PuMa Accomplishments: 1st :2011 North American Star League Season 1 1st: 2011 North American Star League Season 1 Open Tournament Overview: PuMa has a reputation of being a practice bonjwa and is said to have been the practice partner of the legendary Flash (Though I’m skeptical of how much they practiced together, which many forum goers over exaggerate). He seemed to have popped up out of nowhere scoring a three kill in GSTL against the likes of Optimus and MKP. Continuing this success, he proceeded to win the NASL open bracket against TSLaLive which gave him the opportunity to compete against the worlds finest at the NASL Finals. Being the 16th seed, his victory seemed unlikely, yet PuMa utterly dismantled his opponents and finished the tourney in 1st place winning an intense final match vs ogsMC 4-3. Overall, PuMa doesn’t seem to have any weak matchups at all showing dominant play versus all three races. PuMa, hungry for more international titles, has joined the foreigner team EG. Will PuMa have continued international success, or will joining team EG prove to be his downfall without a Korean team house environment? All in all, PuMa is one Terran to watch out for.
Well, one match shouldn't be the decisive factor to determine the king, but due to him being the most prominent pretender for the crown for many months, I guess it's safe to call mvp the terran king now. He also won mlg relatively recently. We can pretty much put him at the same level of reign as Nestea and MC in their races - that is, they all sometimes lose, and they may even fall down from a tournament early, but on the long run they have the most solid performances in their race.
PuMa Accomplishments: 1st :2011 North American Star League Season 1 1st: 2011 North American Star League Season 1 Open Tournament Overview: PuMa has a reputation of being a practice bonjwa and is said to have been the practice partner of the legendary Flash (Though I’m skeptical of how much they practiced together, which many forum goers over exaggerate). He seemed to have popped up out of nowhere scoring a three kill in GSTL against the likes of Optimus and MKP. Continuing this success, he proceeded to win the NASL open bracket against TSLaLive which gave him the opportunity to compete against the worlds finest at the NASL Finals. Being the 16th seed, his victory seemed unlikely, yet PuMa utterly dismantled his opponents and finished the tourney in 1st place winning an intense final match vs ogsMC 4-3. Overall, PuMa doesn’t seem to have any weak matchups at all showing dominant play versus all three races. PuMa, hungry for more international titles, has joined the foreigner team EG. Will PuMa have continued international success, or will joining team EG prove to be his downfall without a Korean team house environment? All in all, PuMa is one Terran to watch out for.
lol @ mvp might be as good as nestea now. Mvp eats nestea as a midnight snack, that's right, not even good enough for a full course meal. Defeated mc, polt, nestea, huk, july, top to win his trophy. Greatest gsl run to date and the undisputed #1 terran AND player. No one can touch him at the moment.
PuMa Accomplishments: 1st :2011 North American Star League Season 1 1st: 2011 North American Star League Season 1 Open Tournament Overview: PuMa has a reputation of being a practice bonjwa and is said to have been the practice partner of the legendary Flash (Though I’m skeptical of how much they practiced together, which many forum goers over exaggerate). He seemed to have popped up out of nowhere scoring a three kill in GSTL against the likes of Optimus and MKP. Continuing this success, he proceeded to win the NASL open bracket against TSLaLive which gave him the opportunity to compete against the worlds finest at the NASL Finals. Being the 16th seed, his victory seemed unlikely, yet PuMa utterly dismantled his opponents and finished the tourney in 1st place winning an intense final match vs ogsMC 4-3. Overall, PuMa doesn’t seem to have any weak matchups at all showing dominant play versus all three races. PuMa, hungry for more international titles, has joined the foreigner team EG. Will PuMa have continued international success, or will joining team EG prove to be his downfall without a Korean team house environment? All in all, PuMa is one Terran to watch out for.
Actually PuMa was Flash's main TvT partner in BW.
I still haven't seen a reliable source for this.
Artosis should be a source reliable enough.
Artosis is one of the most biased people ever when it comes to his favorite players. I don't doubt they were practice partners in the sense that they have played practice games together. But beyond that, we don't know for sure.
I think that it's pretty obvious after today that we have a definite king (more so than before). I'd go as far as to say we just might have a SC2 king, 3 championships and 8-1 against the only guy who got just as many. Throw in an mlg and a cute face and its all clear. gg u da best
Such a difficult thread. When you see the poll you mostly instantly think of MVP but then you have to remember MMA, Bomber.. etc. There are so many good Korean Terrans.
PuMa Accomplishments: 1st :2011 North American Star League Season 1 1st: 2011 North American Star League Season 1 Open Tournament Overview: PuMa has a reputation of being a practice bonjwa and is said to have been the practice partner of the legendary Flash (Though I’m skeptical of how much they practiced together, which many forum goers over exaggerate). He seemed to have popped up out of nowhere scoring a three kill in GSTL against the likes of Optimus and MKP. Continuing this success, he proceeded to win the NASL open bracket against TSLaLive which gave him the opportunity to compete against the worlds finest at the NASL Finals. Being the 16th seed, his victory seemed unlikely, yet PuMa utterly dismantled his opponents and finished the tourney in 1st place winning an intense final match vs ogsMC 4-3. Overall, PuMa doesn’t seem to have any weak matchups at all showing dominant play versus all three races. PuMa, hungry for more international titles, has joined the foreigner team EG. Will PuMa have continued international success, or will joining team EG prove to be his downfall without a Korean team house environment? All in all, PuMa is one Terran to watch out for.
Actually PuMa was Flash's main TvT partner in BW.
I still haven't seen a reliable source for this.
Artosis should be a source reliable enough.
haha yeah Artosis is a reliable source
"MVP is a mouthbreather and a bad player" "the next OSL is gonna be about SC2" (said early 2010) "Really is the second best terran player in the world" "Gosi Terran is one of the favorites for TSL2"
Puma was just one of many practice partners for Flash. I'd guess Suny and Barracks are his main TvT partners
On September 11 2011 04:05 Incognoto wrote: Such a difficult thread. When you see the poll you mostly instantly think of MVP but then you have to remember MMA, Bomber.. etc. There are so many good Korean Terrans.
There are many many good terrans, mma, bomber, puma, mkp, etc. all come to mind. But there's only 1 king. What have these other good terrans done? win 3 gsl's? I don't think so.
MVP?! I really don't think there is anything left to say, if you have watched him since the beginning. He is simply put the best AND most successful Terran in TvZ, TvP and TvT and together with NesTea the best Macro Player in the world.
On September 11 2011 04:03 nicknt wrote: obviously MVP is the terran king no question. Only Bomber can go toe to toe with him in a series.
True but to be King you need to be good at all matchups, and that is MVP like no other terran. So for the time being yes he is the best overall terran out there.
For a while there was no one, but now I think we can safely say MVP is the best terran player atm. Then it would be a very tough place for 2nd, but I'd give it today to TOP.
I'd say that MVP is the Terran, and SC2 KING right now. MLG and GSL Code S back to back, there's no discussion even needed, Especially with the way he has crushed everyone.
MVP is not just a Terran King, he is freaking best player right now! Won MLG and crushed through top players this GSL! Seriously MC, Polt, Nestea, HuK, July, TOP it's nothing but impressive!
With MVP back in form, its definitely him. His play starting with MLG Anaheim and through this most recent GSL has been nothing short of stellar. And it seems like its in every match up. Just look at who he beat this season. Polt, MC, Nestea, Huk, July and Top. Only dropped 2 games too. Far more impressive than any other run in GSL ever.
I still think of TOP as the "Terran of the future", though, but it's clear that future has not yet arrived. There were a few games last night where Artosis said, "TOP would've beaten anyone other then MVP there."
On September 11 2011 07:47 ComTrav wrote: Pretty tough to say anyone other then MVP.
I still think of TOP as the "Terran of the future", though, but it's clear that future has not yet arrived. There were a few games last night where Artosis said, "TOP would've beaten anyone other then MVP there."
On September 11 2011 07:47 ComTrav wrote: Pretty tough to say anyone other then MVP.
I still think of TOP as the "Terran of the future", though, but it's clear that future has not yet arrived. There were a few games last night where Artosis said, "TOP would've beaten anyone other then MVP there."
On September 11 2011 11:51 lee365 wrote: MarineKing in 2nd as always....
It's fanboys, he's not nearly the second best terran (Bomber, Boxer, MMA, TOP, hate to say it, Polt, PuMa, etc.)
You think boxer > mkp? Bro code B =/= ...i lost count how many times he's gotten 2nd place now LOL
As of late I think Boxer is outperforming MKP by far (MLG, GSL All-Star Games)
MKP got further in Code A then Boxer did, Boxer got crushed by Leenock whilst MKP crushed Leenock... Allstar games were a showmatch, what does that have to do with anything? :S
On September 11 2011 13:27 hai2u wrote: 1. MVP 2. Bomber 3. TOP 4. Polt 5. MMA
Top was pretty impressive during the finals, but I still don't think he ranks as top 3 terran in the world yet. After MVP and Bomber, it's kind of hard to decide, but I know there are a lot of terrans (Ganzi, Ryung, Nada, MKP, the three that you listed, and more) who are easily interchangeable skill-wise during any given week.
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
On September 11 2011 11:51 lee365 wrote: MarineKing in 2nd as always....
It's fanboys, he's not nearly the second best terran (Bomber, Boxer, MMA, TOP, hate to say it, Polt, PuMa, etc.)
You think boxer > mkp? Bro code B =/= ...i lost count how many times he's gotten 2nd place now LOL
As of late I think Boxer is outperforming MKP by far (MLG, GSL All-Star Games)
MKP got further in Code A then Boxer did, Boxer got crushed by Leenock whilst MKP crushed Leenock... Allstar games were a showmatch, what does that have to do with anything? :S
plus mkp hasn't even gone overseas yet. Mkp's achievements still outshine boxer by far. Idk why people still underrate him so much
On September 11 2011 13:27 hai2u wrote: 1. MVP 2. Bomber 3. TOP 4. Polt 5. MMA
Eh I would prefer Polt/Nada at the 3-4 position if this list was based on aggregate tournament performance. Actual skill would be difficult to list since there are so many great players who haven't had a shot in Code S yet. Guys like Taeja and Jjakji are amazing but haven't had much exposure.
On July 26 2011 17:13 hyptonic wrote: MVP and MarineKing have been in a bit of a slump recently but I'd still say they are at the top with Polt/Bomber/sC in a tier below them
MVP in a slump? LOL! MVP is the king!
Note that the post was made when MVP was indeed in a slump and before he won MLG Raleigh and the latest GSL.
On September 11 2011 07:47 ComTrav wrote: Pretty tough to say anyone other then MVP.
I still think of TOP as the "Terran of the future", though, but it's clear that future has not yet arrived. There were a few games last night where Artosis said, "TOP would've beaten anyone other then MVP there."
TOP was actually top during beta. His prime imo has already passed him.
I think that bomber has more upside to his game than MVP, but, for now, MVP is the best. Is he so much better than everybody else that we should king him? No.
On September 11 2011 14:05 repsac wrote: I think that bomber has more upside to his game than MVP, but, for now, MVP is the best. Is he so much better than everybody else that we should king him? No.
On September 11 2011 11:51 lee365 wrote: MarineKing in 2nd as always....
It's fanboys, he's not nearly the second best terran (Bomber, Boxer, MMA, TOP, hate to say it, Polt, PuMa, etc.)
You think boxer > mkp? Bro code B =/= ...i lost count how many times he's gotten 2nd place now LOL
As of late I think Boxer is outperforming MKP by far (MLG, GSL All-Star Games)
MKP got further in Code A then Boxer did, Boxer got crushed by Leenock whilst MKP crushed Leenock... Allstar games were a showmatch, what does that have to do with anything? :S
plus mkp hasn't even gone overseas yet. Mkp's achievements still outshine boxer by far. Idk why people still underrate him so much
If anything, MKP is overrated, not underrated. (See: poll.)
MKP was undeniably a top five Terran a few months back, but he's dropped off lately in terms of performance; even his games in Code A have been shaky, and I would definitely say that Polt (still underrated ...) has overshot him in terms of play and skill lately. He's still better than Boxer, though.
Ranking players is difficult, though. I'd break it up into match-ups, but even then it's hard to tell. After MVP and Bomber (interchangeable) in TvT, you just descend into the murky waters of TOP/Polt/NaDa/Puma/Byun/SlayerS/others. TvZ is a little clearer; MVP, followed by MMA, and then TOP/sC/Bomber/Jjakji/others. TvP is probably the easiest to rank: Polt, Bomber, and Puma are all top-notch TvPers (in that order), and then you have players like Taeja and Jjakji, who haven't quite proven themselves yet, but who have very promising TvP plays nonetheless. And, of course, MVP, who's fixed up his TvP lately.
On September 11 2011 07:47 ComTrav wrote: Pretty tough to say anyone other then MVP.
I still think of TOP as the "Terran of the future", though, but it's clear that future has not yet arrived. There were a few games last night where Artosis said, "TOP would've beaten anyone other then MVP there."
TOP was actually top during beta. His prime imo has already passed him.
Kinda baseless to say TOP's past his zenith when we just saw him in the finals for the first time. The guy's still young, and the fact that he's been good since the beta only tells us he has the necessary motivation & potential to keep on improving and stay toe to toe with the best. I'll wager we'll be seeing a lot more of him in the latter stages of Code S.
On September 11 2011 11:51 lee365 wrote: MarineKing in 2nd as always....
It's fanboys, he's not nearly the second best terran (Bomber, Boxer, MMA, TOP, hate to say it, Polt, PuMa, etc.)
You think boxer > mkp? Bro code B =/= ...i lost count how many times he's gotten 2nd place now LOL
As of late I think Boxer is outperforming MKP by far (MLG, GSL All-Star Games)
MKP got further in Code A then Boxer did, Boxer got crushed by Leenock whilst MKP crushed Leenock... Allstar games were a showmatch, what does that have to do with anything? :S
plus mkp hasn't even gone overseas yet. Mkp's achievements still outshine boxer by far. Idk why people still underrate him so much
If anything, MKP is overrated, not underrated. (See: poll.)
MKP was undeniably a top five Terran a few months back, but he's dropped off lately in terms of performance; even his games in Code A have been shaky, and I would definitely say that Polt (still underrated ...) has overshot him in terms of play and skill lately. He's still better than Boxer, though.
Ranking players is difficult, though. I'd break it up into match-ups, but even then it's hard to tell. After MVP and Bomber (interchangeable) in TvT, you just descend into the murky waters of TOP/Polt/NaDa/Puma/Byun/SlayerS/others. TvZ is a little clearer; MVP, followed by MMA, and then TOP/sC/Bomber/Jjakji/others. TvP is probably the easiest to rank: Polt, Bomber, and Puma are all top-notch TvPers (in that order), and then you have players like Taeja and Jjakji, who haven't quite proven themselves yet, but who have very promising TvP plays nonetheless. And, of course, MVP, who's fixed up his TvP lately.
great post, yeah like others said it's pretty much MVP then Bomber then a bunch of other Terrans behind them.
On September 11 2011 11:51 lee365 wrote: MarineKing in 2nd as always....
It's fanboys, he's not nearly the second best terran (Bomber, Boxer, MMA, TOP, hate to say it, Polt, PuMa, etc.)
You think boxer > mkp? Bro code B =/= ...i lost count how many times he's gotten 2nd place now LOL
As of late I think Boxer is outperforming MKP by far (MLG, GSL All-Star Games)
MKP got further in Code A then Boxer did, Boxer got crushed by Leenock whilst MKP crushed Leenock... Allstar games were a showmatch, what does that have to do with anything? :S
plus mkp hasn't even gone overseas yet. Mkp's achievements still outshine boxer by far. Idk why people still underrate him so much
Actually he has, CPL, and he won it (Sase second and QXC third). And why would someone ever bring up the all star games? MKP played protoss in them. Not to mention Boxer only won because July threw the game away trying to be entertaining.
i personally don't think the list needs to go TOO deep
God Tier: IMMvp
God's Best Friend Who Isn't Quite As Good As God: ST_Bomber
Top Tier: SlayerS_MMA, SlayerS_GanZi, SlayerS_Ryung, EGPuMa, OptimusPrime.WE, and now adding oGs.TOP to the list
MKP is floating between not worth mentioning in comparison to the above players, and barely making it into Top Tier lately, but you never know, he's back in Code S so we'll see how it goes.
ZenexHack or Thebest would both crush Drewbie and probably Demuslim depending on his current condition. Also I'm not sure Qxc is over Boxer because of one all kill.
On September 11 2011 14:20 rysecake wrote: ^ there can only be 1 god. this ain't ancient egypt
Stop forcing your belief system on others.
Kidding aside, I'd definitely put MVP over Bomber simply because of MVP's results. That being said, Bomber's a really weird case. He's shown that he has the capacity to beat pretty much everyone in the GSL (e.g. MVP, MC, DRG, Ryung, Losira, Polt, MMA, etc.), which is why people are so impressed with him, but at the same time, he's shown that he can lose to almost anyone who's relatively decent (Moon, Byun, and Keen being the very notable ones).
Still, his play is definitely god-tier when he's on the ball. If I had to describe him, I'd probably say that he's MVP's genius but insane cousin.
On September 11 2011 14:20 rysecake wrote: ^ there can only be 1 god. this ain't ancient egypt
Stop forcing your belief system on others.
Kidding aside, I'd definitely put MVP over Bomber simply because of MVP's results. That being said, Bomber's a really weird case. He's shown that he has the capacity to beat pretty much everyone in the GSL (e.g. MVP, MC, DRG, Ryung, Losira, Polt, MMA, etc.), which is why people are so impressed with him, but at the same time, he's shown that he can lose to almost anyone who's relatively decent (Moon, Byun, and Keen being the very notable ones).
Still, his play is definitely god-tier when he's on the ball. If I had to describe him, I'd probably say that he's MVP's genius but insane cousin.
Your post is exactly the reason I haven't bought into bomber yet really. Thanks! He has shown himself capable of taking down top players, but hasn't put up the results, nor shown the consistency. I just don't get that "invincible" feeling from him that I do from mvp. Like you said, he loses very often to people who you wouldn't expect him to. Definitely a top tier terran, but no where near the level of mvp yet. Not until he proves himself at least (win championships/not lose to low-mid tier players).
Bombers tvz in particular seems very frail compared to mvp's. Though bomber does have better tvp (but im seeing rapid improvement from mvp in this department lately).
On September 11 2011 14:20 rysecake wrote: ^ there can only be 1 god. this ain't ancient egypt
Stop forcing your belief system on others.
Kidding aside, I'd definitely put MVP over Bomber simply because of MVP's results. That being said, Bomber's a really weird case. He's shown that he has the capacity to beat pretty much everyone in the GSL (e.g. MVP, MC, DRG, Ryung, Losira, Polt, MMA, etc.), which is why people are so impressed with him, but at the same time, he's shown that he can lose to almost anyone who's relatively decent (Moon, Byun, and Keen being the very notable ones).
Still, his play is definitely god-tier when he's on the ball. If I had to describe him, I'd probably say that he's MVP's genius but insane cousin.
Your post is exactly the reason I haven't bought into bomber yet really. Thanks! He has shown himself capable of taking down top players, but hasn't put up the results, nor shown the consistency. I just don't get that "invincible" feeling from him that I do from mvp. Like you said, he loses very often to people who you wouldn't expect him to. Definitely a top tier terran, but no where near the level of mvp yet. Not until he proves himself at least (win championships/not lose to low-mid tier players).
Bombers tvz in particular seems very frail compared to mvp's. Though bomber does have better tvp (but im seeing rapid improvement from mvp in this department lately).
Bomber's TvZ baffles me. He's lost to people like Moon before, so I'd pretty much given up on his TvZ by then, but then come MLG, he thrashed DRG so hard it wasn't even funny aside from the BM. I would even argue that he crushed DRG harder than MVP did by putting himself behind so much before catching up and proceeding to walk all over him.
Meanwhile, MVP's TvP has gotten better, but I've recently only seen him play a BO1 against a slumping MC and that series against Huk that shall not be mentioned. So, at the moment, I'd probably put MVP's TvP on the same level as Bomber's TvZ. They're both improving incredibly fast though.
On September 11 2011 14:20 rysecake wrote: ^ there can only be 1 god. this ain't ancient egypt
Stop forcing your belief system on others.
Kidding aside, I'd definitely put MVP over Bomber simply because of MVP's results. That being said, Bomber's a really weird case. He's shown that he has the capacity to beat pretty much everyone in the GSL (e.g. MVP, MC, DRG, Ryung, Losira, Polt, MMA, etc.), which is why people are so impressed with him, but at the same time, he's shown that he can lose to almost anyone who's relatively decent (Moon, Byun, and Keen being the very notable ones).
Still, his play is definitely god-tier when he's on the ball. If I had to describe him, I'd probably say that he's MVP's genius but insane cousin.
Your post is exactly the reason I haven't bought into bomber yet really. Thanks! He has shown himself capable of taking down top players, but hasn't put up the results, nor shown the consistency. I just don't get that "invincible" feeling from him that I do from mvp. Like you said, he loses very often to people who you wouldn't expect him to. Definitely a top tier terran, but no where near the level of mvp yet. Not until he proves himself at least (win championships/not lose to low-mid tier players).
Bombers tvz in particular seems very frail compared to mvp's. Though bomber does have better tvp (but im seeing rapid improvement from mvp in this department lately).
Bomber's TvZ baffles me. He's lost to people like Moon before, so I'd pretty much given up on his TvZ by then, but then come MLG, he thrashed DRG so hard it wasn't even funny aside from the BM. I would even argue that he crushed DRG harder than MVP did by putting himself behind so much before catching up and proceeding to walk all over him.
Meanwhile, MVP's TvP has gotten better, but I've recently only seen him play a BO1 against a slumping MC and that series against Huk that shall not be mentioned. So, at the moment, I'd probably put MVP's TvP on the same level as Bomber's TvZ. They're both improving incredibly fast though.
Bomber has mechanics and multitasking
It's just his style of TvZ was retarded, it's like how MarineKing tried to play TvZ right now.
He just changed up his strategy and is now way way more aggressive than he used to be, using his micro and drops and wins now.
On September 11 2011 14:20 rysecake wrote: ^ there can only be 1 god. this ain't ancient egypt
Stop forcing your belief system on others.
Kidding aside, I'd definitely put MVP over Bomber simply because of MVP's results. That being said, Bomber's a really weird case. He's shown that he has the capacity to beat pretty much everyone in the GSL (e.g. MVP, MC, DRG, Ryung, Losira, Polt, MMA, etc.), which is why people are so impressed with him, but at the same time, he's shown that he can lose to almost anyone who's relatively decent (Moon, Byun, and Keen being the very notable ones).
Still, his play is definitely god-tier when he's on the ball. If I had to describe him, I'd probably say that he's MVP's genius but insane cousin.
Your post is exactly the reason I haven't bought into bomber yet really. Thanks! He has shown himself capable of taking down top players, but hasn't put up the results, nor shown the consistency. I just don't get that "invincible" feeling from him that I do from mvp. Like you said, he loses very often to people who you wouldn't expect him to. Definitely a top tier terran, but no where near the level of mvp yet. Not until he proves himself at least (win championships/not lose to low-mid tier players).
Bombers tvz in particular seems very frail compared to mvp's. Though bomber does have better tvp (but im seeing rapid improvement from mvp in this department lately).
Bomber's TvZ baffles me. He's lost to people like Moon before, so I'd pretty much given up on his TvZ by then, but then come MLG, he thrashed DRG so hard it wasn't even funny aside from the BM. I would even argue that he crushed DRG harder than MVP did by putting himself behind so much before catching up and proceeding to walk all over him.
Meanwhile, MVP's TvP has gotten better, but I've recently only seen him play a BO1 against a slumping MC and that series against Huk that shall not be mentioned. So, at the moment, I'd probably put MVP's TvP on the same level as Bomber's TvZ. They're both improving incredibly fast though.
Bomber has mechanics and multitasking
It's just his style of TvZ was retarded, it's like how MarineKing tried to play TvZ right now.
He just changed up his strategy and is now way way more aggressive than he used to be, using his micro and drops and wins now.
I missed out on the most recent mlg and haven't seen bombers tvz since he played nestea. So from my previous exposure, I remembered bomber having a very turtley style, not very harassment based. Idk if that's changed since I haven't watched his tvz in a good amount of time but I don't remember his tvz being that mechanical/multitask heavy (mvp has better tvz micro for sure, dat marine splits. )
Bomber is definitely the second best terran. He's incredibly well rounded in all matchups, incredibly smart in picking his builds, and I'm sure everyone would be hesitating to vote for MVP in a rematch. Once the patch goes through and bio mech starts working better his tvt will probably be the best.
this is the silliest post ive read in quite some time. those players most certainly do not belong in any sort of arbitrary 'trash tier'... what the fuck. what did they ever do to deserve that kind of offense
On September 11 2011 14:20 rysecake wrote: ^ there can only be 1 god. this ain't ancient egypt
Stop forcing your belief system on others.
Kidding aside, I'd definitely put MVP over Bomber simply because of MVP's results. That being said, Bomber's a really weird case. He's shown that he has the capacity to beat pretty much everyone in the GSL (e.g. MVP, MC, DRG, Ryung, Losira, Polt, MMA, etc.), which is why people are so impressed with him, but at the same time, he's shown that he can lose to almost anyone who's relatively decent (Moon, Byun, and Keen being the very notable ones).
Still, his play is definitely god-tier when he's on the ball. If I had to describe him, I'd probably say that he's MVP's genius but insane cousin.
Your post is exactly the reason I haven't bought into bomber yet really. Thanks! He has shown himself capable of taking down top players, but hasn't put up the results, nor shown the consistency. I just don't get that "invincible" feeling from him that I do from mvp. Like you said, he loses very often to people who you wouldn't expect him to. Definitely a top tier terran, but no where near the level of mvp yet. Not until he proves himself at least (win championships/not lose to low-mid tier players).
Bombers tvz in particular seems very frail compared to mvp's. Though bomber does have better tvp (but im seeing rapid improvement from mvp in this department lately).
Bomber's TvZ baffles me. He's lost to people like Moon before, so I'd pretty much given up on his TvZ by then, but then come MLG, he thrashed DRG so hard it wasn't even funny aside from the BM. I would even argue that he crushed DRG harder than MVP did by putting himself behind so much before catching up and proceeding to walk all over him.
Meanwhile, MVP's TvP has gotten better, but I've recently only seen him play a BO1 against a slumping MC and that series against Huk that shall not be mentioned. So, at the moment, I'd probably put MVP's TvP on the same level as Bomber's TvZ. They're both improving incredibly fast though.
Bomber has mechanics and multitasking
It's just his style of TvZ was retarded, it's like how MarineKing tried to play TvZ right now.
He just changed up his strategy and is now way way more aggressive than he used to be, using his micro and drops and wins now.
I missed out on the most recent mlg and haven't seen bombers tvz since he played nestea. So from my previous exposure, I remembered bomber having a very turtley style, not very harassment based. Idk if that's changed since I haven't watched his tvz in a good amount of time but I don't remember his tvz being that mechanical/multitask heavy (mvp has better tvz micro for sure, dat marine splits. )
One thing I did notice before was that Bomber's TvZ in the past (pre-MLG) was incredibly, dangerously passive. He just ... wouldn't do anything but macro all day, every day. He does harass a bit now, which is a welcome change. But sometimes when he harasses in the early-game, he doesn't follow up on it, and you're just like ... what? (See: BO1 against viOlet, who almost caught back up despite losing a shit ton of drones at the beginning to BFHs. This was also pre-MLG, though.)
If you haven't seen MLG, you should watch Bomber vs. DRG, Game 1 from Raleigh (starting at 24:45). It's really ... something. I'm still not sure what the hell happened. He just bludgeoned DRG into the ground.
this is the silliest post ive read in quite some time. those players most certainly do not belong in any sort of arbitrary 'trash tier'... what the fuck. what did they ever do to deserve that kind of offense
I agree, those players may not be as good as the very best terrans, but they certainly are extremely good players nonetheless. Insults like those are extremely offensive especially when there are fanclubs for most of them.
In 2-3 hours I will see MVP claim his 3rd GSL win, which will forever secure in my heart his position as the Terran King. That is until Bomber decides to climb from God's best friend who is almost as good as God to God.
I did a little fixing for you and added a new tier. qxc... just no. Byun got his puppy so we won't see him doing well anytime soon. Cool people are missing but whatever, I'm just editing your tier list for fun ^^
Wait until Bomber actually make it to Round of 4 of Code S before claim something like that.... Just saying. This guy is overrated sometimes...
Gotta at least agree with not having him be on the same tier as MVP. Even if Bomber is capable of as good of games as MVP, which I am not convinced of, there is no doubt about the fact that MVP is 100x more consistent than Bomber. There wasn't a single moment in GSL Code S where it seemed like MVP might not win his series. Bomber doesn't have nearly the untouchable'ness that MVP has.
MVP is probably the only Terran of such a high level that has a certain level of consistency. Sure, he fell down to Code A at one point, but shit + Show Spoiler +
Winning Anaheim convincingly? And now just totally rofl-stomping the finals in GSL August? He is the only one of his kind at the current state of the game.
On September 11 2011 15:39 tuho12345 wrote: Zerg/Ter and Toss already decided their kings for 6 months ago. Nestea/MVP and MC has no opponent in their races.
You know that you are saying that a code A guy has no opponent in hes race.
On September 11 2011 15:47 IMNotMvp wrote: Best terran: Taeja (believe it or not, he will be)
Top Terrans: MVP Bomber MMA
TvT: Bomber MVP GanZi
TvZ: MVP MKP sC LosirA! (joke, he is pretty good anyways, maybe better than Keen, polt, byun and others)
TvP: Optimus (Polt) PuMa MKP
MVP is miles ahead of the terran currently. Taeja shows he doesn't have perfect play in up and down matches, while MVP won GSL august against some of the hardest matchup
On September 11 2011 15:39 tuho12345 wrote: Zerg/Ter and Toss already decided their kings for 6 months ago. Nestea/MVP and MC has no opponent in their races.
You know that you are saying that a code A guy has no opponent in hes race.
Yeah, but toss in general seems to be having a tough time...in Code S at least, aint just MC.
Bomber has quite a way to go before being rated in the same galaxy as Mvp, let alone along side of him, despite his obvious talent. I think Mvp's dips in form in a couple of seasons were mostly due to lacking the motivation to practice hard, where as this season he's stated how incredibly hard he's been practicing. Bomber shows inconsistencies from game to game, you don't get that from Mvp, been dominant from that absolute slaughter of MC in his first game, right through to the complete dismantling of TOP with Bio vs Mech in his final game.
I feel like strelok should be on this list somewhere. He doesn't get enough credit in my opinion.
But anyway, there is no doubt who is the terran king now. MVP all the way. Now is the biggest question who is the protoss king? MC seems to have fallen from grace a little.
Anyhows, there's no doubt that Mvp is the best Terran out right now. He's completely dominated throughout his journey in MLG Anaheim and Code S August, swatting down former champions left and right with his solid strategic thinking, superb macro and micro skills, and the drive/determination to keep pushing on despite disadvantages and making the best out of what he has in certain situations (like the multi-angle flanks throughout his finals matches vs TOP, who has shown that he is indeed a top Terran [creative builds, timing attacks and strategies totally unheard of until now]).
I see vulnerability with NesTea, who is the most dominant Zerg player, but I don't see any weakness with Mvp (except for his wrists).
People don't want to admit it but MVP is king of Terran. Even though he went through a pretty big slump, his MLG and GSL victories have proved he's back and on top.
Normally I'd be to the contrary but those TvT's he showed last night highlighted how well he knows Terran.
MVP is the best player in the world right now. Absolutely no doubt about that, I've seen this after he won his first code S. And I'm a huge MC's fanboy myself
This reminds me of the zerg king thread where people were saying there was no current king. Then Nestea went and won another GSL and became the clear Zerg King. Same thing for this thread really.
But in all seriousness, it's a shame that we can't see what the players in Korea are really made of due to a low sample size. I mean, a few bad games and Nestea was no longer considered the best. And IMMVP losing a few games that were really just that, a FEW and then no longer considered the best.
On September 12 2011 02:26 wklbishop wrote: This reminds me of the zerg king thread where people were saying there was no current king. Then Nestea went and won another GSL and became the clear Zerg King. Same thing for this thread really.
But in all seriousness, it's a shame that we can't see what the players in Korea are really made of due to a low sample size. I mean, a few bad games and Nestea was no longer considered the best. And IMMVP losing a few games that were really just that, a FEW and then no longer considered the best.
The way Nestea just dominated everyone last season showed that he was above everyone else. Even after getting knocked out early this season, he's still considered to be the best. I don't think too many people will argue against it.
The way MVP played this season convinced most people that he is indeed the top Terran. Even if he gets knocked out in the round of 32, I think most people will still consider him to be the best. I know I will, unless someone else outplays MVP and shows that they are better.
On July 26 2011 17:22 Meteora.GB wrote: Unlike the Zerg and Protoss, the Terran throne seems to be competed over fiercely by many top tier Terrans. While I would have said that MVP was the king of the Terrans a few months back, he seems to have fallen off and slumped a bit recently. Of course, if we want to talk about who's the most accomplished Terran, it would be indisputably MVP (followed by MKP with his throng of silver medals). Its rather hard to judge who is the best Terran right now.
If I had to group the strongest Terrans together this would be how it looks like within that category overall, including each of the best match ups (some players are inconsistently left out because I feel that they aren't all that great or haven't proven themselves):
The Definite Best Terrans 1. MVP 2. Bomber 3. MarineKing
* TvTing his way through to the semi-finals, taking out MVP, sC, NaDa and Bomber ** Dismantling and outplaying MMA in the finals, who TvT'd his way to the finals
Best TvP 1. Polt (Optimus)* 2. Bomber 3. MarineKing
* Yeah sure his opponents play terribly but he holds a 4-0 record against MC and held a 100% win rate before Killer took a game off of him in a close match
you do realize that all the people you listed in best TvT that SlayerS_Ryung would destroy them right? rofl
On September 12 2011 02:59 Chickenlegs wrote: Where is the love for Ganzi btw? he's been tearing it up lately and has sick good TvT and good TvZ
He's very very good, but I'm still not sold on his TvP. He seems to rely on the all-in that shall not be named more than any other terran out there. The few times I've seen his standard TvP, I wasn't very impressed.
Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
On September 12 2011 02:55 ch33psh33p wrote: ^ and its a joke to think anyone has better TvZ in the world than MVP.
Just a joke.
Nah, they're pretty similar, they just play differently. MMA is underrated, he and Bomber are second best imo. MKP and Puma are overrated, and there are a bunch of random code S terrans who are also pretty good.
MVP will win this GSL... only has to go through MMA now, who admittedly isn't an easy foe. Harder than MKP, that's for sure. I think MVP will do it though.
Regardless, when you take a look at the history, there's really no doubt that MVP is the best Terran though.
MVP is the most well rounded and best overall. MKP is the scrappiest and most entertaining. fxoASD has the best micro. The best Terran no one has heard of is NexSparta. I imagine he will eventually make his way into the gsl and tear shit up (yaaaaay another terran right? :D).
On October 15 2011 01:02 Neurosis wrote: MVP is the most well rounded and best overall. MKP is the scrappiest and most entertaining. fxoASD has the best micro. The best Terran no one has heard of is NexSparta. I imagine he will eventually make his way into the gsl are tear shit up (yaaaaay another terran right? :D).
DRG is the most skillful overall though (imo).
Nestea is way ahead of DRG as far as Zerg skill goes. DRG's ZvT is just amazing, sure... yet he still got stomped by some Terrans one or two MLGs ago (and even Thorzain did incredibly well off him recently at... what was it, Dreamhack or IEM or something). Is DRG even in Code S? He's not as well-rounded as other players (Nestea and high-level Terrans). DRG is around Losira's level. Around a clear second or third best Zerg.
But even with all that, the Terrans are far superior.
On October 15 2011 01:02 Neurosis wrote: MVP is the most well rounded and best overall. MKP is the scrappiest and most entertaining. fxoASD has the best micro. The best Terran no one has heard of is NexSparta. I imagine he will eventually make his way into the gsl are tear shit up (yaaaaay another terran right? :D).
DRG is the most skillful overall though (imo).
Nestea is way ahead of DRG as far as Zerg skill goes. DRG's ZvT is just amazing, sure... yet he still got stomped by some Terrans one or two MLGs ago (and even Thorzain did incredibly well off him recently at... what was it, Dreamhack or IEM or something). Is DRG even in Code S? He's not as well-rounded as other players (Nestea and high-level Terrans).
But even with all that, the Terrans are far superior.
I disagree. I think Nestea prepares the best strategies but DRG is much more skilled.
On October 15 2011 01:02 Neurosis wrote: MVP is the most well rounded and best overall. MKP is the scrappiest and most entertaining. fxoASD has the best micro. The best Terran no one has heard of is NexSparta. I imagine he will eventually make his way into the gsl are tear shit up (yaaaaay another terran right? :D).
DRG is the most skillful overall though (imo).
Nestea is way ahead of DRG as far as Zerg skill goes. DRG's ZvT is just amazing, sure... yet he still got stomped by some Terrans one or two MLGs ago (and even Thorzain did incredibly well off him recently at... what was it, Dreamhack or IEM or something). Is DRG even in Code S? He's not as well-rounded as other players (Nestea and high-level Terrans).
But even with all that, the Terrans are far superior.
I disagree. I think Nestea prepares the best strategies but DRG is much more skilled.
this .. Nestea wins because of his understanding of the game and his overall builds smarts and preperation
DRG is 100% talent .... his skill ceiling is 100 X higher
On October 15 2011 01:02 Neurosis wrote: MVP is the most well rounded and best overall. MKP is the scrappiest and most entertaining. fxoASD has the best micro. The best Terran no one has heard of is NexSparta. I imagine he will eventually make his way into the gsl are tear shit up (yaaaaay another terran right? :D).
DRG is the most skillful overall though (imo).
Nestea is way ahead of DRG as far as Zerg skill goes. DRG's ZvT is just amazing, sure... yet he still got stomped by some Terrans one or two MLGs ago (and even Thorzain did incredibly well off him recently at... what was it, Dreamhack or IEM or something). Is DRG even in Code S? He's not as well-rounded as other players (Nestea and high-level Terrans).
But even with all that, the Terrans are far superior.
I disagree. I think Nestea prepares the best strategies but DRG is much more skilled.
this .. Nestea wins because of his understanding of the game and his overall builds smarts and preperation
DRG is 100% talent .... his skill ceiling is 100 X higher
Agreed DRG mechanics are crazy. How he macros/larva injects while using his mutas almost non-stop is unfathomable to me. Nestea is just slightly less active with his mutas but he is able to read his opponents so well and prepare accordingly while DRG sometimes lose to very well prepared strats(which is why i felt he dropped 2 games to thorzain even though i think DRG shits on thorzain).
On October 15 2011 02:00 Anoint wrote: I think 1)NesTea 2) Bomber 3) Poltimus 4) MVP 5) MarineKing 6) MMA 7) Nada 8) PUMA 9) Byun But that is just IMO. Everyone may disagree.
xD. Not sure if you're serious but if you are. Polt over MVP? Maybe t v p only.
, MVP is undisputed as Terran King. But he's been mentioning that he has pretty severe carpal tunnel in both hands pretty frequently now. So he's going to have to take a break (and maybe get a surgery) soon.
On October 15 2011 02:00 Anoint wrote: I think 1)NesTea 2) Bomber 3) Poltimus 4) MVP 5) MarineKing 6) MMA 7) Nada 8) PUMA 9) Byun But that is just IMO. Everyone may disagree.
On October 15 2011 02:00 Anoint wrote: I think 1)NesTea 2) Bomber 3) Poltimus 4) MVP 5) MarineKing 6) MMA 7) Nada 8) PUMA 9) Byun But that is just IMO. Everyone may disagree.
It would help if your no 1 spot actually played terran tbh. But thats just your opinion.
On October 15 2011 01:26 ContactKilla wrote: How can MVP and Puma be considered best TvT when MMA smashed both of them?
I honestly think MMA is doing the absolute best. He gets better and better
MMA beat MVP at Geforce Pro, MVP beat MMA at MLG Anaheim. So it's even! But still MVP's TvT statistically is more solid than MMA's. So I don't know, GSL finals will be deciding.
I think just from watching MVPS games he is just simply the best all around player in the game right now. His decision making and mechanics are a step above most other players.
On October 15 2011 10:53 The KY wrote: Can't see how anyone would make a convincing argument against MVP to be honest. I'm not a fan really but he's the best.
i agree completely i just dont like him... i cheer against him.... but man mvp is the best terran for sure
best player in the world, if he would consistently split his marines against banelings (see gsl ro32/korean weeklys all the time)
ummmm..... I love taeja too, but calling him the best player is really stupid. He is really good vs code B players trying to qualify for the code A spot. He is still really awesome though, and I really think he is a badass.
His (mainly) mech style is just so precise, and playing mech properly is much more difficult than playing pure bio or bio/mech, but if you play it right, it's so rewarding. (TvT)
I'm pretty sure that MVP is the best Terran player at present, although it can't be pinpointed exactly who the Terran King is. All of the mentioned players have their respective strengths, and prove to be of the most tough players in the world. The GSL and GSTL are challenging leagues for these players, and it creates a very tight-knit bond between their skill levels, so I do not think that any of them is really much better that the other. Things change so much, and good players can quickly experience a pitfall where they easily lose their dominance.
How people don't vote for MVP I have no idea, he's so good he makes everyone but Nestea look stupid. I guess MMA would be a close second if he just played mech ffs. Stupid marine tank fad.
GSL final spoiler - what a pity that such an interesting discussion needs to be done in spoilers lol + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 00:41 Azzur wrote: Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
Quoting myself on what I said earlier - I still think that MVP is considered the best terran, but by losing 4-1 (in albeit epic games), crown prince MMA has taken great steps in dethroning him.
On October 22 2011 16:04 Azzur wrote: GSL final spoiler - what a pity that such an interesting discussion needs to be done in spoilers lol + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 00:41 Azzur wrote: Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
Quoting myself on what I said earlier - I still think that MVP is considered the best terran, but by losing 4-1 (in albeit epic games), crown prince MMA has taken great steps in dethroning him.
mvp played all day already, he was not in the best shape
On October 22 2011 16:04 Azzur wrote: GSL final spoiler - what a pity that such an interesting discussion needs to be done in spoilers lol + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 00:41 Azzur wrote: Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
Quoting myself on what I said earlier - I still think that MVP is considered the best terran, but by losing 4-1 (in albeit epic games), crown prince MMA has taken great steps in dethroning him.
mvp played all day already, he was not in the best shape
Did you even watch the matches? MVP played amazing, MMA just played better.
Even though MVP lost the final, for me he is still the best Terran and possibly the best player atm. This time MMA showed much better strategies, but I would like to see him continue playing that way. MVP is the best because he plays on highest level for soooo long now.
On October 22 2011 16:04 Azzur wrote: GSL final spoiler - what a pity that such an interesting discussion needs to be done in spoilers lol + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 00:41 Azzur wrote: Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
Quoting myself on what I said earlier - I still think that MVP is considered the best terran, but by losing 4-1 (in albeit epic games), crown prince MMA has taken great steps in dethroning him.
mvp played all day already, he was not in the best shape
u think mma didnt play any games all day? mvp was just getting warmed up for it
MVP is still the terran king, mma needs to win at least one more major tournament to really solidify his position. Also, I don't see the need for spoilers. If people go here, they should know that recent results will be discussed.
On October 22 2011 16:08 MattO1337 wrote: Did you even watch the matches? MVP played amazing, MMA just played better.
Are you serious? MVP was so sloppy the entire series. He threw game 2 away by roaming around unsieged and getting caught. He got dropped so many times in game 5 and was still unprepared every time. He looked terrible.
It probably seemed less obvious how bad he was playing because Tastosis are usually more critical of bad play than they were today.
On October 22 2011 16:04 Azzur wrote: GSL final spoiler - what a pity that such an interesting discussion needs to be done in spoilers lol + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 00:41 Azzur wrote: Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
Quoting myself on what I said earlier - I still think that MVP is considered the best terran, but by losing 4-1 (in albeit epic games), crown prince MMA has taken great steps in dethroning him.
mvp played all day already, he was not in the best shape
Did you even watch the matches? MVP played amazing, MMA just played better.
I'm gonna disagree with you here. MVP made mistakes in every game in the set. In top form, mvp doesn't really make mistakes, or at least to the degree he was making tonight. Not to take the win away from mma, it clearly shows mvp is far from bonjwa status and mma is in the conservation for top terran.
His play was so one dimensional outside the all-in game he won. The games read like: earlyexpomech(BoLoss) + bansheetomech + all-in + earlyexpomech + bansheetomech
He's still the strongest terran. I don't know if MMA will deny that, just as Bomber did when he beat MVP in Code A. But the play today was so standard that I wonder whether he'll hold his throne.
To cite Game of Thrones: MVP is starting to be cut by the iron throne. He may not be the true king
MMA has to dominate more solidly for the throne. If he had won IPL3 and AOL (two very recent tournaments) perhaps I'd argue it, but his recent record has not been totally dominating.
MVP played so horribly that series, I actually forgot MVP was playing for a moment. He was really drained from his Blizzcon tourney games earlier in the day. It was really obvious.
On October 22 2011 16:16 hYdrA-MeNo wrote: Its funny how people just switched sides...... But the only reason mma won is because mvp didnt play like mvp.......
I feel like this is a bad position to take, very self fulfilling. If mvp wins blizzcon, then ill be ok discounting this loss.
And the trolls come in. Sorry guys 1 gsl title does not take away the 3 mvp already has. MMA played better, mvp was sloppy as shit today, and mma definitely deserved to win, but stop with this bullshit already.
Did you even watch the matches? MVP played amazing, MMA just played better.
Did you?
Game 1 MVP fails to scout MMA's proxies, dies Game 2 MVP gets his siege tanks caught unsieged, dies Game 3: BO win Game 4: Some of the worst banshee control I've ever seen from MVP. Game 5: MVP's best game. Too bad he was so behind from MMA's first attack that it ultimately didn't matter.
MVP is still the terran king, but he unquestionably was off form in the finals.
On October 22 2011 16:16 hYdrA-MeNo wrote: Its funny how people just switched sides...... But the only reason mma won is because mvp didnt play like mvp.......
I feel like this is a bad position to take, very self fulfilling. If mvp wins blizzcon, then ill be ok discounting this loss.
How is it a bad position Mvp didnt play like he normally does he made mistake he normally does not he took risk he normally doesnt..... Im not taking credit away from mma he played great i just know mvp didnt play at 100%
On October 22 2011 16:16 hYdrA-MeNo wrote: Its funny how people just switched sides...... But the only reason mma won is because mvp didnt play like mvp.......
I feel like this is a bad position to take, very self fulfilling. If mvp wins blizzcon, then ill be ok discounting this loss.
I don't think the loss should be discounted on grounds of excuses. Sure, they might be valid. But players do have to endure these harsh schedules at time, and when under that pressure if they can still dominate, then they are the king.
If MVP was truly a cut above, fatigue wouldn't be enough. As it is, I think the arguement is that though MVP is probably the strongest Terran player, he is not without flaws and not sitting far enough above to be king.
It's more like he's on a council and has the most land and biggest army, but other councilors are scheming and might have just as much land and army.
Did you even watch the matches? MVP played amazing, MMA just played better.
Did you?
Game 1 MVP fails to scout MMA's proxies, dies Game 2 MVP gets his siege tanks caught unsieged, dies Game 3: BO win Game 4: Some of the worst banshee control I've ever seen from MVP. Game 5: MVP's best game. Too bad he was so behind from MMA's first attack that it ultimately didn't matter.
MVP is still the terran king, but he unquestionably was off form in the finals.
Did you even watch the matches? MVP played amazing, MMA just played better.
Did you?
Game 1 MVP fails to scout MMA's proxies, dies Game 2 MVP gets his siege tanks caught unsieged, dies Game 3: BO win Game 4: Some of the worst banshee control I've ever seen from MVP. Game 5: MVP's best game. Too bad he was so behind from MMA's first attack that it ultimately didn't matter.
MVP is still the terran king, but he unquestionably was off form in the finals.
As I've said before people scoffed at me saying that MVP was invincible in a BOX TvT, every top 10 TvTer can take games and series off each other depending on the day.
Well, in my opinion, I still think qxc is the Terran King. He showed this by beating MVP along with THE ENTIRE IM TEAM in GSTL, while he was on a break from school. If MVP is the terran king, and qxc beat MVP, obviously qxc is really the terran king.
Lol jkkk :D
In all seriousness, MVP is still the king. You lose sometimes, one series doesn't decide anything. MMA is probably the 2nd best Terran in the world, and top 4 players probably in the world, but MVP has just shown result after result after result, and him losing one GSL finals doesn't discount his three previous ones, nor the fact that he got to the finals in the first place.
I always thought that mech play was way too difficult to use/ immobile for it to be feasibly played better than bio, especially with the cost-effectiveness/dps of marauders and bio. I see how it could be more efficient, but it seems that the level and consistency of play required is way too high, even for the "King of Terran".
On October 22 2011 16:29 DeathIncarna wrote: I always thought that mech play was way too difficult to use/ immobile for it to be feasibly played better than bio, especially with the cost-effectiveness/dps of marauders and bio. I see how it could be more efficient, but it seems that the level and consistency of play required is way too high, even for the "King of Terran".
Mech is really, really unforgiving. Make just a few mistakes and it's, as MKP has said before, absolutely "pathetic." It's no wonder that very, very few Terrans choose to mech much. Ryung and MVP are the big mechers, and Bomber mechs like ... a quarter of his games depending on who he's playing and on what maps he's playing. I just feel that playing mech is kind of going for a calculated risk; you're basically making a statement that you're going to play absolutely perfect, and if you don't, you're going to die.
On October 22 2011 16:04 Azzur wrote: GSL final spoiler - what a pity that such an interesting discussion needs to be done in spoilers lol + Show Spoiler +
On October 15 2011 00:41 Azzur wrote: Looks like the minority spoiler police is still in force, so I have to use spoilers to discuss: + Show Spoiler +
Looks like we get a dream GSL finals. If MVP wins, then he no doubt will be the terran king for a while and may, dare I say it, be on his way to bonjwa status. If MMA wins, then I feel that the crown prince will fail to unseat MVP, but there will be enough doubt.
These 2 haven't met in a serious match before - the MLG finals was played in low stress since MMA has already secured Code S. And there was some online tournament which in my opinion doesn't count. Also, MVP vs Bomber, Code A finals should not be used as a benchmark because that is a low pressure match. If that match was for a Code S spot, it would count for far more.
MVP is a big game player and MMA already showed weakness in a big final (i.e. Super Tournament). However, MVP is not a "timing attack" player, so the games should be fairly epic. Looking forward to a very even mech vs bio contest.
Quoting myself on what I said earlier - I still think that MVP is considered the best terran, but by losing 4-1 (in albeit epic games), crown prince MMA has taken great steps in dethroning him.
mvp played all day already, he was not in the best shape
u think mma didnt play any games all day? mvp was just getting warmed up for it
why would mma be playing games today. He's not in the blizzcon tournament
Immvp played sloppy, he didn't even get sensor tower as mech when he usually do against bio.
2 out of the 4 games he was completely contained he could even get past second base
I Think MMA outplayed MVP today but MVP still has more accomplishments under his belt. Due to his success that wasn't long ago I would still consider him the best Terran(best player?) In the world but I wouldn't say he's levels above everyone
On October 22 2011 16:39 nakedsurfer wrote: I Think MMA outplayed MVP today but MVP still has more accomplishments under his belt. Due to his success that wasn't long ago I would still consider him the best Terran(best player?) In the world but I wouldn't say he's levels above everyone
That statement does nothing BUT take credit from MMA.
Yeah it's true but MVP definitely didn't play at 100% of his potential. But neither did MMA, he was dropping way too much and you noticed it especially in the late game of the last game.
Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Or we can look at how many GSL's they actually been in to the amount they actually won? Since Mvp has been in code S every season but how many 1? I think MMA's Championship win rate is a little better.
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Lol, no. MVP's TvZ > MMA's. It's much, much more stable than MMA's TvZ ever was, in any case.
They both are borderline mediocre in TvP, to be honest. Best TvPers are Polt and Bomber. Taeja's also really good at it, though he hasn't really shown much of it lately. (And Puma, if you want to include him.)
MMA is just better than everyone else. He's the only player that can do 2-3 drops while controlling his position in the center of the map and all that on freaking MLG and GSL finals. The only thing he was lacking was some more elaborate build orders designed for specific players. Now he's finally complete. I always get nerdchills when the observer tries to catch on all the action, only to go to that drop that came from nowhere and has already taken down the enemy oc to half hp. All hail the new King!
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
mvp certainly has the better tvz. and mma's recent dominance over mvp can be attributed greatly to the latest balance patch as it was playing into his strengths and against mvp's.
to me mvp is still the best terran in the world, but the margin is getting smaller and there is no doubt that mma was outplaying him today.
imho it goes like that: best tvt: mma best tvz: mvp best tvp: bomber
I think today only makes the title of king uncertain again. It doesn't mean MMA is at the top, simply that he's competitive for it again. You don't become unanimously the best by simply winning the GSL once. You have to get to the point where everyone knows you're going to win it before it even happens.
Anyone can win one game are you serious you mean Creator prime is better then everyone he cleared out in GSTL or DRG is better then all the players he beat one game? Get fucked.
Game 2 MMA was base or 2 ahead whole game and MVP still held and gathered huge army to push out and failed to siege in time which is pretty much why he lost game, MMA built his factories between his natural and 3rd which would MVP kill and most likely win game, but we will never know.
Game 4 MMA did pretty good contain and MVP payed a lot of units to get out of it and once he got out and took 3rd base he was in amazing position, he was denying the 4th with helions and was pushing to MMA's 3rd but decided to push for some reason on MMA's natural from right side and that was dumbest mistake I saw MVP do. MVP had 3 cloaked banshees at time and MMA had 0 thors and maybe 2 marines if he just pushed MMA's 3rd with tank/banshee combo he would win easy.
Game 5 MMA had big adventage then kinda blew it by putting his tanks in siege that were close to MVP's main from where he killed all MMA's tanks with his own once he got out was pretty much even game and then MMA took his chance of doing 3 expands at same time and kept droping to keep MVP busy. Yes he did good job with it but even with good play from MVP his huge mistake in that game is 1) no patroling vikings to stop drops into his main 2) not a single turret 3) not a single tank sieged in main. He lost 3-10 helions each drop because till tanks arrive to defend all the helions die to marauders, if he made turrets for all the money he lost in depos/helions..oh well
Even with all the drops doing damage he managed to break out of contain and even with..wont say poor play but just poor decision making he managed to kill MMA's main but the 2 medivac drop on end killed MVP, if he had turrets and/or tanks game would be different.
TLDR: MVP played..I wont say terrible, but he didnt play his best and he is still best player in the world.
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Lol, no. MVP's TvZ > MMA's. It's much, much more stable than MMA's TvZ ever was, in any case.
They both are borderline mediocre in TvP, to be honest. Best TvPers are Polt and Bomber. Taeja's also really good at it, though he hasn't really shown much of it lately. (And Puma, if you want to include him.)
Even though both their TvPs aren't great MMA's is just... code A level really...
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Lol, no. MVP's TvZ > MMA's. It's much, much more stable than MMA's TvZ ever was, in any case.
They both are borderline mediocre in TvP, to be honest. Best TvPers are Polt and Bomber. Taeja's also really good at it, though he hasn't really shown much of it lately. (And Puma, if you want to include him.)
Even though both their TvPs aren't great MMA's is just... code A level really...
It's hard to judge who is worse since we haven't seen much TvP out of them lately. MVP went down to Code A because of TvP and dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. MMA got knocked to Code B because of TvP and ... I don't remember any more TvP games from him, tbh. They're both just not that good at it, which is ironic since TvP is supposed to be the most favored match-up for a Terran.
On October 22 2011 16:58 RealReality wrote: Actually Nestea is a better player. Same amount of GSL's and doesn't need to ride an OP ass race to do it.
What does this have to do with nestea vs mma that you've been arguing for the past page? Oh right it doesn't, you're just trying to come up with bullshit against mvp now.
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Lol, no. MVP's TvZ > MMA's. It's much, much more stable than MMA's TvZ ever was, in any case.
They both are borderline mediocre in TvP, to be honest. Best TvPers are Polt and Bomber. Taeja's also really good at it, though he hasn't really shown much of it lately. (And Puma, if you want to include him.)
Even though both their TvPs aren't great MMA's is just... code A level really...
It's hard to judge who is worse since we haven't seen much TvP out of them lately. MVP went down to Code A because of TvP and dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. MMA got knocked to Code B because of TvP and ... I don't remember any more TvP games from him, tbh. They're both just not that good at it, which is ironic since TvP is supposed to be the most favored match-up for a Terran.
Not many protoss to worry about in Code S anyway, lol.
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Lol, no. MVP's TvZ > MMA's. It's much, much more stable than MMA's TvZ ever was, in any case.
They both are borderline mediocre in TvP, to be honest. Best TvPers are Polt and Bomber. Taeja's also really good at it, though he hasn't really shown much of it lately. (And Puma, if you want to include him.)
Even though both their TvPs aren't great MMA's is just... code A level really...
It's hard to judge who is worse since we haven't seen much TvP out of them lately. MVP went down to Code A because of TvP and dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. MMA got knocked to Code B because of TvP and ... I don't remember any more TvP games from him, tbh. They're both just not that good at it, which is ironic since TvP is supposed to be the most favored match-up for a Terran.
MMA is at a 40% win rate in TvP in korea. That's pretty saddening any way you look at it. And he lost really convincing games to whitera recently, although I wouldn't look too deep into that because he lost a lot of games in general at IPL3.
On October 22 2011 16:45 RealReality wrote: Dunno when MMA has 2 BO5's and 1 BO7 to Mvp's how many series over him again? You can consider him better. More consistent? Maybe. Around longer?? Been around TONS longer. So i would hope he had more accomplishments. As of today MMA is better tho at TvT and TvZ only MU Mvp might take is TvP.
Lol, no. MVP's TvZ > MMA's. It's much, much more stable than MMA's TvZ ever was, in any case.
They both are borderline mediocre in TvP, to be honest. Best TvPers are Polt and Bomber. Taeja's also really good at it, though he hasn't really shown much of it lately. (And Puma, if you want to include him.)
Even though both their TvPs aren't great MMA's is just... code A level really...
It's hard to judge who is worse since we haven't seen much TvP out of them lately. MVP went down to Code A because of TvP and dropped a game to Kiwi at MLG. MMA got knocked to Code B because of TvP and ... I don't remember any more TvP games from him, tbh. They're both just not that good at it, which is ironic since TvP is supposed to be the most favored match-up for a Terran.
Not many protoss to worry about in Code S anyway, lol.
Unfortunately.
Bomber would be so happy if there were more Protoss, lol. Less because of TvP being his best MU and more because I feel he'd like to avoid TvTs for the rest of his life if possible, and the more Toss there are, the fewer Terrans he'll have to run into. That guy just does not like TvT, despite the fact that he's pretty darn good at it when he's on fire. It's funny that he hates it so much that he'd much rather play TvZ (his weakest) over TvT any day of the week.
Hmm, actually I don't even think there's a contest. MMA has participated 5 times in major leagues. 2 GSL's, 1 GSTL, 2 MLG's. He has taken first place in 2 of em (1 mlg,1 gsl), 2nd place in other 2 (mlg,gstl) and has dropped out in ro16 in the remaining gsl. And that's not even counting the Team Leagues where he stomped faces. That percentage seems imba.
On October 22 2011 17:07 Steveling wrote: Hmm, actually I don't even think there's a contest. MMA has participated 5 times in major leagues. 2 GSL's, 1 GSTL, 2 MLG's. He has taken first place in 2 of em (1 mlg,1 gsl), 2nd place in other 2 (mlg,gstl) and has dropped out in ro16 in the remaining gsl. And that's not even counting the Team Leagues where he stomped faces. That percentage seems imba.
What about all the 2(3?) code a's he lost in early on? If MLG is considered major those definitely should be. Also slayers has been in 3 GSTL's not 1... Extremely biased statistics here.
On October 22 2011 17:07 Steveling wrote: Hmm, actually I don't even think there's a contest. MMA has participated 5 times in major leagues. 2 GSL's, 1 GSTL, 2 MLG's. He has taken first place in 2 of em (1 mlg,1 gsl), 2nd place in other 2 (mlg,gstl) and has dropped out in ro16 in the remaining gsl. And that's not even counting the Team Leagues where he stomped faces. That percentage seems imba.
Well you can't just ignore the fact he was stuck in code A for a long time.
I think it's too quick to call MMA the best terran in the world, perhaps MMA will end up being a one hit wonder after this and drop off the face of the earth we don't know right now and should wait for more seasons to see if he can keep it up as MVP has simply been dominating for much longer not even counting his brutal path to a 3rd win, calling MMA the best terran this soon would kind of be like immediatley calling fantasy better than flash after he won the OSL.
Also let's not forget that MMA was incredibly close to losing in ever round of this tournament besides ironically the ro4 and the finals. Clide, asd, and his group all brought him within 1 game of elimination. Meanwhile, aside from Nestea, MVP crushed everyone he faced in what I would call (and what almost every one else was calling) a harder bracket. Ganzi took a game off him but it was MVP doing a really weird all-in that Yoda the famous 1/1/1er recommended.
mvp. it's great that mma won and so on so on, but mvp consistently (key word - consistently) churns out top results, whereas mma just had a good run. Unless mma can show consistensy, it's still mvp.
On October 22 2011 17:13 Fusilero wrote: I think it's too quick to call MMA the best terran in the world, perhaps MMA will end up being a one hit wonder after this and drop off the face of the earth we don't know right now and should wait for more seasons to see if he can keep it up as MVP has simply been dominating for much longer not even counting his brutal path to a 3rd win, calling MMA the best terran this soon would kind of be like immediatley calling fantasy better than flash after he won the OSL.
Yeah it's definitely unreasonable to start saying that MMA is the best Terran but I don' think he will be a one hit wonder, he already isn't, having won an MLG and a very strong showing in the GSTL. I don't know if he will ever be the number 1 player, but he certainly has a future and I don't see him dropping off any time soon.
The only thing about MMA is that he constantly loses to lesser players yet can straight up destroy anyone who is a fan favorite. And it's a hard thing to do is to be able to be consistent in that way.
MMA is the best at dismantling and dismembering Champion status players but to be king of Terran i think you need the solid win after win against anybody caliber that MVP has.
MMA is my favorite player in SCII and has been since Team League February but Mvp is king of Terran unfortunately .
On October 22 2011 17:37 Raiznhell wrote: The only thing about MMA is that he constantly loses to lesser players yet can straight up destroy anyone who is a fan favorite. And it's a hard thing to do is to be able to be consistent in that way.
MMA is the best at dismantling and dismembering Champion status players but to be king of Terran i think you need the solid win after win against anybody caliber that MVP has.
MMA is my favorite player in SCII and has been since Team League February but Mvp is king of Terran unfortunately .
MMA played amazing this GSL finals. I wish MVP went bio. Mech seems to be a little dated and too fragile post 1.4. Though I agree with the consistency point. He crumbled vs Lucky's roach ling all-ins at IPL. Not many people seem to remember that just a short while ago.
On October 22 2011 17:23 zeOllie wrote: mvp. it's great that mma won and so on so on, but mvp consistently (key word - consistently) churns out top results, whereas mma just had a good run. Unless mma can show consistensy, it's still mvp.
Consistent results? If he isn't in the finals he's dropping down to code a in the first round. He's probably one of the most inconsistent players. It was only until recently that he even came out of his slump.
If MVP is the best it's just barely. No one needs to jump to the conclusion that MMA is suddenly the best terran in the world, but he proved MVP is actually (and still) very mortal in TvT. His TvP is shaky and TvZ is still indisputably the best in the world.
On October 22 2011 17:32 hysterial wrote: You can't put MMA over MVP yet people. Let's see a tad more consistency, then we can be certain.
He destroyed MVP and if we talk about consistency then remember MVP dropped to code A, while MMA never did, in fact when he got knocked to code b it was only by the champion of code A(puzzle), while when mvp did he got knocked out by 2 players who weren't even that good. The reason i am bringing this up is that getting knocked out of code s is hard while in code A its easy, cause if u get a though opponent in ro32 then bye-bye.
He has a very one sided record against MVP 12-6 gstl 1-0 gsl final 4-1 mlg 1-2 geforce pro 3-1 final geforce pro 3-2 playoffs
In fact only time mvp won against mma he was lucky and barely did it at mlg 2-1, other then that it was always 1 sided, gstl,gsl, geforce. I don't know why people considered mvp to be terran king or even a favorite at gsl final, i guess now people got a reality check.
MMA's TvZ isn't "indisputably" the best in the world. Look at MVP's TvZ record:he hasn't lost a BoX in TvZ since October 2010, against Zenio (AoL isn't even counted in ELO). Compare this to MMA TvZ record and in the international scene: MMA's TvZ in international. So bascially MVP has the same winrate vZ, but on more matches played and against players of a better caliber. MMA plays most of his TvZs against lower level foreigners or bad ZvTers (losira); he is 1-1 against nestea and 3-2 against DRG, compare to MVP's 11-4 and 3-1.
On October 22 2011 17:32 hysterial wrote: You can't put MMA over MVP yet people. Let's see a tad more consistency, then we can be certain.
He destroyed MVP and if we talk about consistency then remember MVP dropped to code A, while MMA never did, in fact when he got knocked to code b it was only by the champion of code A(puzzle), while when mvp did he got knocked out by 2 players who weren't even that good. The reason i am bringing this up is that getting knocked out of code s is hard while in code A its easy, cause if u get a though opponent in ro32 then bye-bye.
He has a very one sided record against MVP 12-6 gstl 1-0 gsl final 4-1 mlg 1-2 geforce pro 3-1 final geforce pro 3-2 playoffs
In fact only time mvp won against mma he was lucky and barely did it at mlg 2-1, other then that it was always 1 sided, gstl,gsl, geforce. I don't know why people considered mvp to be terran king or even a favorite at gsl final, i guess now people got a reality check.
One-sided games? Then i guess that MLG Anaheim was one-sided? People usually don't count online matches for a good reason. And you're only proving that MMA can beat MVP regularly (which is true), not that he is the better terran overall. Consistency? MMA at the beginning was struggling to get to Code S: he only achieved it after losing to MVP in the MLG finals. Getting dropped to Code A used to be pretty easy: lose 2 BoX (ro32 code A is a Bo3) and you're facing elimination from Code S. MMA also couldn't get to Code S because of protoss in the U&D, so they're equal from this point of view. MMA got 2-0ed by Huk, who MVP then promptly 3-0d. Edit: sorry for double post
Ah yes, the MMA fans are now claiming that he is the best Terran.
I don't remember many people claiming that when Polt won a championship.
Its too early to say that he is the Terran King at the moment. MVP didn't really seem to play at a level which I expect him to, he always had mistakes that set him back from having any real presence on the map (a lack of missile ring and not leap frogging tanks). However there isn't anything that I can take away from MMA's win, he played brilliantly. For me MVP is still the best, but we'll have to see in the upcoming seasons.
Remember folks, things fluctuate a lot in SC2. Once MC was the best Protoss (and still arguably is; either that or the leadership position seems really shaky) but he dropped into the oblivion that is Code B. MVP looked invincible back in January, then dropped off and then made his comeback some many months later.
Nestea? He's a god, he doesn't crushes nerds for life.
3 time champion and now 1 time runner up and suddenly he's not the best Terran because he finally lost a finals (to someone who got 4-0'd in their only other finals appearance)?
On October 22 2011 18:08 Meteora.GB wrote: Ah yes, the MMA fans are now claiming that he is the best Terran.
I don't remember many people claiming that when Polt won a championship.
Its too early to say that he is the Terran King at the moment. MVP didn't really seem to play at a level which I expect him to, he always had mistakes that set him back from having any real presence on the map (a lack of missile ring and not leap frogging tanks). However there isn't anything that I can take away from MMA's win, he played brilliantly. For me MVP is still the best, but we'll have to see in the upcoming seasons.
Remember folks, things fluctuate a lot in SC2. Once MC was the best Protoss (and still arguably is; either that or the leadership position seems really shaky) but he dropped into the oblivion that is Code B. MVP looked invincible back in January, then dropped off and then made his comeback some many months later.
Nestea? He's a god, he doesn't crushes nerds for life.
Polt is nothing special though. You can watch Polt play and unless it's one of his godly TvP timing pushes you are like well this is just another Terran on the block, then you look at players like MMA and Mvp (among others) and you're like this guy just understands the way the game works on a higher level and is really someone special.
On October 22 2011 18:08 Meteora.GB wrote: Ah yes, the MMA fans are now claiming that he is the best Terran.
I don't remember many people claiming that when Polt won a championship.
Its too early to say that he is the Terran King at the moment. MVP didn't really seem to play at a level which I expect him to, he always had mistakes that set him back from having any real presence on the map (a lack of missile ring and not leap frogging tanks). However there isn't anything that I can take away from MMA's win, he played brilliantly. For me MVP is still the best, but we'll have to see in the upcoming seasons.
Remember folks, things fluctuate a lot in SC2. Once MC was the best Protoss (and still arguably is; either that or the leadership position seems really shaky) but he dropped into the oblivion that is Code B. MVP looked invincible back in January, then dropped off and then made his comeback some many months later.
Nestea? He's a god, he doesn't crushes nerds for life.
Polt is nothing special though. You can watch Polt play and unless it's one of his godly TvP timing pushes you are like well this is just another Terran on the block, then you look at players like MMA and Mvp (among others) and you're like this guy just understands the way the game works on a higher level and is really someone special.
Unfortunately while Polt is "nothing special", he ate MMA in the Super Tournament in a sweep. Yeah, I guess I can agree that Polt doesn't really seem like much from a glance (I think he has more subtle attributes which aren't as easy to tell, such as imo his decision making and marine splits), but he's still a champion. I just hate it how when someone wins one championship, everyone claims they are either the best player or the next best thing (see HuK + Stephano).
lol @ the people voting for mma now: Wow he beat MVP in one bo7 in one out of three matchups these two have to play. That totally means he is better. MVP is still the most accomplished terran at this point, I wish people would just wait till the game evolves a lot more.
On October 22 2011 18:11 Asha` wrote: 3 time champion and now 1 time runner up and suddenly he's not the best Terran because he finally lost a finals (to someone who got 4-0'd in their only other finals appearance)?
lol.
He was 4-1'd by this "someone who got 4-0'd in their only other finals appearance."
On October 22 2011 18:24 Lorch wrote: lol @ the people voting for mma now: Wow he beat MVP in one bo7 in one out of three matchups these two have to play. That totally means he is better. MVP is still the most accomplished terran at this point, I wish people would just wait till the game evolves a lot more.
On October 22 2011 18:08 Meteora.GB wrote: Ah yes, the MMA fans are now claiming that he is the best Terran.
I don't remember many people claiming that when Polt won a championship.
Its too early to say that he is the Terran King at the moment. MVP didn't really seem to play at a level which I expect him to, he always had mistakes that set him back from having any real presence on the map (a lack of missile ring and not leap frogging tanks). However there isn't anything that I can take away from MMA's win, he played brilliantly. For me MVP is still the best, but we'll have to see in the upcoming seasons.
Remember folks, things fluctuate a lot in SC2. Once MC was the best Protoss (and still arguably is; either that or the leadership position seems really shaky) but he dropped into the oblivion that is Code B. MVP looked invincible back in January, then dropped off and then made his comeback some many months later.
Nestea? He's a god, he doesn't crushes nerds for life.
Polt is nothing special though. You can watch Polt play and unless it's one of his godly TvP timing pushes you are like well this is just another Terran on the block, then you look at players like MMA and Mvp (among others) and you're like this guy just understands the way the game works on a higher level and is really someone special.
Unfortunately while Polt is "nothing special", he ate MMA in the Super Tournament in a sweep. Yeah, I guess I can agree that Polt doesn't really seem like much from a glance (I think he has more subtle attributes which aren't as easy to tell, such as imo his decision making and marine splits), but he's still a champion. I just hate it how when someone wins one championship, everyone claims they are either the best player or the next best thing (see HuK + Stephano).
/end rant
People have been saying Stephano was the next big thing before IPL. Polt is insanely good TvT. His cheese opening are amazing and if he preps a lot (busy with school atm) he could claim another GSL.
On October 22 2011 18:11 Asha` wrote: 3 time champion and now 1 time runner up and suddenly he's not the best Terran because he finally lost a finals (to someone who got 4-0'd in their only other finals appearance)?
lol.
He was 4-1'd by this "someone who got 4-0'd in their only other finals appearance."
That's kind of my point?
Woah he lost decisively so he's no longer the best...
...oh wait, the guy he lost to got even more comprehensively hammered in his other finals appearance.
It's crazy to think being runner up in one GSL finals out of 4 suddenly makes him a lesser player than the guy he lost to this time around lol. It certainly made him the lesser player at this GSL, but "the best terran" isn't something decided on the weight of a single match in one single season.
On October 22 2011 18:08 Meteora.GB wrote: Ah yes, the MMA fans are now claiming that he is the best Terran.
I don't remember many people claiming that when Polt won a championship.
Its too early to say that he is the Terran King at the moment. MVP didn't really seem to play at a level which I expect him to, he always had mistakes that set him back from having any real presence on the map (a lack of missile ring and not leap frogging tanks). However there isn't anything that I can take away from MMA's win, he played brilliantly. For me MVP is still the best, but we'll have to see in the upcoming seasons.
Remember folks, things fluctuate a lot in SC2. Once MC was the best Protoss (and still arguably is; either that or the leadership position seems really shaky) but he dropped into the oblivion that is Code B. MVP looked invincible back in January, then dropped off and then made his comeback some many months later.
Nestea? He's a god, he doesn't crushes nerds for life.
Polt is nothing special though. You can watch Polt play and unless it's one of his godly TvP timing pushes you are like well this is just another Terran on the block, then you look at players like MMA and Mvp (among others) and you're like this guy just understands the way the game works on a higher level and is really someone special.
Unfortunately while Polt is "nothing special", he ate MMA in the Super Tournament in a sweep. Yeah, I guess I can agree that Polt doesn't really seem like much from a glance (I think he has more subtle attributes which aren't as easy to tell, such as imo his decision making and marine splits), but he's still a champion. I just hate it how when someone wins one championship, everyone claims they are either the best player or the next best thing (see HuK + Stephano).
/end rant
People have been saying Stephano was the next big thing before IPL. Polt is insanely good TvT. His cheese opening are amazing and if he preps a lot (busy with school atm) he could claim another GSL.
Well, Stephano is an exception I suppose. I've been hearing that before. Just when he won IPL there was an outburst claims of "best player". I should correct my statement as just best player instead of best up and coming player (as MMA has been before in the GSTL).
On October 22 2011 18:08 Meteora.GB wrote: Ah yes, the MMA fans are now claiming that he is the best Terran.
I don't remember many people claiming that when Polt won a championship.
Polt is the best terran <3. He won the most important StarCraft 2 tournament that has happened. But the "king" of the terran and the best terran in the world are two completely different things ; of course MarineKing has to be the king ! :D
On October 22 2011 18:11 Asha` wrote: 3 time champion and now 1 time runner up and suddenly he's not the best Terran because he finally lost a finals (to someone who got 4-0'd in their only other finals appearance)?
lol.
More like someone who wasnt anywhere on the radar or the scene till like 4-5 months ago and in that short period of time people have watched him grow and mature as a sc2 player to where he is now with 2 GSL finals and 1 win in that short time. When he got 4-0ed he wasnt the king of terran but after last night Im not sure that he isnt. Kings come and go and MMA is now playing the best sc2 of his life and honestly is he the king of terrans idk but he sure looked the part at blizzcon.
I'm chosing MMA because I feel he is the most Diverse Terran. Very many builds and he is way too much fun to watch.
Yes he did work MVP HARD in the GSL final but people are still not giving MMA his victory. He earned it for sure. MVP made many mistakes and MMA was just better.
Im not saying MVP is at all a bad terran, He is truely amazing, but as far as progression, MMA gets better every single day.
To the people that perceive me to be a MMA fanboy, all i am saying is if a terran crushes another guy(terran) without much problem on a regular basis, then how can the other be considered a terran king ?
Flash doesn't get beaten regularly by no terran, much less easily, in my honest opinion there is no such thing as a terran king.
There are good terrans for certain matchups though.
On October 22 2011 21:32 rareh wrote: To the people that perceive me to be a MMA fanboy, all i am saying is if a terran crushes another guy(terran) without much problem on a regular basis, then how can the other be considered a terran king ?
Flash doesn't get beaten regularly by no terran, much less easily, in my honest opinion there is no such thing as a terran king.
There are good terrans for certain matchups though.
Then obviously MMA can't be king of anything because he gets roftstomped every time he meets Polt. Not only are they rolfstomps, MMA looks completely helpless.
It's not clear whether MMA has a significant edge against MVP. You can't count online tournaments as significant wins and MVP beat MMA 2-1 in MLG. Taeja is #1 elo in Korean but he's basically a nobody in GSL accomplishments.
On October 22 2011 21:32 rareh wrote: To the people that perceive me to be a MMA fanboy, all i am saying is if a terran crushes another guy(terran) without much problem on a regular basis, then how can the other be considered a terran king ?
Flash doesn't get beaten regularly by no terran, much less easily, in my honest opinion there is no such thing as a terran king.
There are good terrans for certain matchups though.
Then obviously MMA can't be king of anything because he gets roftstomped every time he meets Polt. Not only are they rolfstomps, MMA looks completely helpless.
It's not clear whether MMA has a significant edge against MVP. You can't count online tournaments as significant wins and MVP beat MMA 2-1 in MLG. Taeja is #1 elo in Korean but he's basically a nobody in GSL accomplishments.
12-6 is a one sided edge, especially when he makes mvp look hopeless.(same way polt does when he faces mma).
Online doesn't count if its in us and its a us vs a korean, but it was korean vs korean so it counts since they had similar ping(oh and btw all tournaments are online since sc2 still has no lan).
I agree about polt, that is why i think there is no king, polt read the mma book, mvp should ask to borrow it so he can beat mma
For zerg nestea has no rival, but in regards to terran and toss its not possible to say.
If MMA wins providence, then maybe he will be Terran king (definitely if MMA meets MVP again and beats him again). The battle for the Terran throne is a battle between MVP, MMA, and MKP.
edit: MVP is still the king but he is not so high and mighty any more
MMA has had MVP's number for a while now, whenever they run into eachother MMA usually wins. That being said, MMA gets beaten by other players more often. So MVP is still probably the best but MMA is the man that can beat the best
MMA is only good against the top players like MVP, Nestea, DRG, MC, Losira e.t.c. He loses too frequently to lesser players. I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing as a player... It will probably be a good thing in Code S but if he ever falls out of it he's doomed!
MMA gets magical powers to beat the very best convincingly when it really matters (finals/team ace match) but loses to unexpected people during the mid seasons.
MVP is indisputably the best Terran and the best SC2 pro. But there are lots of people who are quickly catching up to him. MVP is dropping games left and right, and even though he is still winning the matches that count, he doesn't look invincible. MMA is quickly becoming someone who might be able to challenge MVP as the King of Terran.
MVP > MMA > All the rest (Bomber, Puma, MKP, etc.).
Both currently and historically.
MVP is also hands down the best SC2 player in the world. I'd say that Nestea and MMA are numbers two and three, usually in that order but I sometimes wonder if it should be switched.
No doubt MVP is still the best terran but crown prince MMA has been besting him in critical tournaments lately (GSL finals and Blizzard Cup ro4). I think this is going to be a significant chip on MVP's shoulder come 2012. If MMA wins the Blizzard Cup and the next GSL, I would say he is neck-to-neck with MVP.
Yes, the Blizzard Cup match had quite a bit of cheese but catching MVP by surprise also means psychological points for future games. In set2 and set3, MVP definitely could've fended off the early aggression by MMA, and thus, I reckon it's a blow in the mental game.
Also, in my opinion (unsubstantiated, and it's just a feeling), I feel that MMA's TvZ is better than MVP - because he seems to do drop-play and multi-tasking very well. In terms of TvP, I think they are roughly equal.
I'm certain that MVP is currently no longer the best terran in the world. He may be suffering from wrist problems, but from a performance/skill perspective, I would give the crown to MMA. MKP's superb showing in MLG where he displayed incredible skill also points to someone who is rapidly catching up. Also, don't forget that MKP lost to eventual finalist Genius in the last GSL in a very close series. In addition, MKP has did quite well in the GSTL as well (all-kill against NSH).
As for the other terrans, I would put Jjakji as the next in line. Others like Bomber, Supernova, Taeja, Ganzi or Puma are too inconsistent to be mentioned in the same bracket.
Although not related to this thread, I would say DRG is the zerg king whilst the protosses have alot of legitimate contenders.
Well, to be fair, this thread was started/active when MVP was dominating the scene, and his wrists didn't seem to be bothering him nearly as much as they have recently.
On March 26 2012 18:01 acrimoneyius wrote: MMA could take the crown if he wins another GSL imo. Otherwise, the throne is empty due to MVP's wrist problems.
On March 26 2012 18:01 acrimoneyius wrote: MMA could take the crown if he wins another GSL imo. Otherwise, the throne is empty due to MVP's wrist problems.
MMA took the crown a long time ago pal.
Nah. Throne is still empty.
MKP is the hottest Terran on the planet, but needs a GSL win to actually step up to fill the void left by MVP's fall.
If by hottest terran on the planet you mean he wins two foreign tournaments but fails to perform well in the GSL, then sure. MMA has the results in both korean and foreign tournaments to back up HIS throne. Don't get me wrong MKP is good, really good. But he needs to prove he can be the best in the GSL before he can hold a candle to the accomplishments of MMA or MVP.
On March 26 2012 19:19 Alasper wrote: If by hottest terran on the planet you mean he wins two foreign tournaments but fails to perform well in the GSL, then sure. MMA has the results in both korean and foreign tournaments to back up HIS throne.
What does MMA have? A GSL? 6 Months ago? A couple cheese-wins vs. Mvp? Thats not enough buddy. MMA didn´t even get as far as Mvp in November when Mvp started to slump. The only King of Terran was Mvp, and with Mvp being injured and slumping there is no king at the moment.
If MKP wins GSL Season 2 I might say MKP is the king, but not yet.
Finally I would like to make the point that ONLY the GSL, GSTL and old-school format MLGs with MANY koreans count. IEM, IPL, Dreamhack and that good stuff are nice but don´t mean shit.
On March 26 2012 18:01 acrimoneyius wrote: MMA could take the crown if he wins another GSL imo. Otherwise, the throne is empty due to MVP's wrist problems.
MMA took the crown a long time ago pal.
Nah. Throne is still empty.
MKP is the hottest Terran on the planet, but needs a GSL win to actually step up to fill the void left by MVP's fall.
Agreed. MKP is the strongest pretender atm. What's only missing is a GSL title. But man was he godly at that last MLG oO.
Can we just stop picking some other random player every other month to be "the best in the world" or "the best of race x". MKP still hasn't done well in gsl in about a year. MVP has been slacking recently even though he was by far the most successful player last year. MMA also hasn't done shit this year, but at the end of last year he looked incredibly good. Also alive is better at tvt then any of the three. If any terran actually dominates for a long period of time for once, we can start talking about a true k ing.
On March 26 2012 18:01 acrimoneyius wrote: MMA could take the crown if he wins another GSL imo. Otherwise, the throne is empty due to MVP's wrist problems.
MMA took the crown a long time ago pal.
Nah. Throne is still empty.
MKP is the hottest Terran on the planet, but needs a GSL win to actually step up to fill the void left by MVP's fall.
Agreed. MKP is the strongest pretender atm. What's only missing is a GSL title. But man was he godly at that last MLG oO.
If MKP plays to his best ability (= not fuckin around at his enemys base because he has so much fun) I don´t see anyone in a position to stop him.
Patches affect these players differently. MVP relied much more on ghosts than MMA. You see who doesn't have nearly as good TvZ now, looking vulnerable to sniper... Wait a second, I think he had a bad day.
You know what, I haven't actually seen an MVP game in forever. How am I judging this.
mvp hasnt won a tournament in like 3 months so he must be in a slump.... he'll probs win this gsl and iron squid as a come back or something... also didnt he have some wrist problems? IMO MKP and MMA havent really proven them selves enough MKP hasnt been doing too well in GSL lately, did play great at winter championship though and arena but then again thats not code S. Give it some time and it will become clear who is the best T
On March 26 2012 19:31 Lorch wrote: Can we just stop picking some other random player every other month to be "the best in the world" or "the best of race x". MKP still hasn't done well in gsl in about a year. MVP has been slacking recently even though he was by far the most successful player last year. MMA also hasn't done shit this year, but at the end of last year he looked incredibly good. Also alive is better at tvt then any of the three. If any terran actually dominates for a long period of time for once, we can start talking about a true k ing.
This shit about alive being the best terran ever is just artosis putting it into everyones head, not nearly enough results to support any of that
On March 26 2012 19:19 Alasper wrote: If by hottest terran on the planet you mean he wins two foreign tournaments but fails to perform well in the GSL, then sure. MMA has the results in both korean and foreign tournaments to back up HIS throne.
What does MMA have? A GSL? 6 Months ago? A couple cheese-wins vs. Mvp? Thats not enough buddy. MMA didn´t even get as far as Mvp in November when Mvp started to slump. The only King of Terran was Mvp, and with Mvp being injured and slumping there is no king at the moment.
If you aren't going to bring up MMA's latest achievments, then argueing with you is worthless since you can't admit that his results are simply better. Also, cheese wins against mvp? So what you're saying is that MKP's 1st place in the previous winter arena doesn't count? Since you know, he bunker cheesed every game. MMA's achievments are much more impressive then MKP's, sorry. I'll even go ahead and say that without the wrist injury, MVP would probably still be the dominant terran, with MMA and jjakji after him. Stop trying to compare MKP to them.
Also agree with the guy who posted before about people always picking one person every month and saying they are the best. It gets old.
Just looking at results Mvp DEMOLISHED Sc2 in 2011, although MMA and MKP have had good wins recently, even with Mvp's slump (which he is in, unquestionably, at the moment), Mvp is still the king in my books, maybe if he still is showing no results in 2 months time I'll reconsider, but remember, this is the player that was so dominant in 2011 that he qualified 3 times for the Blizzard cup, and in turn qualified MMA to be able to win it.
Ppl are saying MKP isnt there yet because he hasnt won a GSL. But imho MLG is much harder to win due to the tournament structure. At GSL you get a week to prepare for just a few matches and at MLG you dont even know who you are gonna play the next half hour in some cases. I rate ppl alot higher who have to depend on their creativity and on the fly play then ppl who win tournaments who get ages to prepare for single opponents(or maybe 2 or 3 in group play). Even though MVP is really good I think in the previous tournaments it has really shown that he has trouble with the amount stamina an MLG requires. The same goes for Nestea. Amazing in GSL but not so much in MLG style. MKP in this case has impressed me so much this MLG with his insanely good micro and marcro its clear that he isnt the same MKP from a few months back. Therefore I dare to say MKP is the best player overall at the moment!
On March 26 2012 20:05 Rinnegan5 wrote: Ppl are saying MKP isnt there yet because he hasnt won a GSL. But imho MLG is much harder to win due to the tournament structure. At GSL you get a week to prepare for just a few matches and at MLG you dont even know who you are gonna play the next half hour in some cases. I rate ppl alot higher who have to depend on their creativity and on the fly play then ppl who win tournaments who get ages to prepare for single opponents(or maybe 2 or 3 in group play). Even though MVP is really good I think in the previous tournaments it has really shown that he has trouble with the amount stamina an MLG requires. The same goes for Nestea. Amazing in GSL but not so much in MLG style. MKP in this case has impressed me so much this MLG with his insanely good micro and marcro its clear that he isnt the same MKP from a few months back. Therefore I dare to say MKP is the best player overall at the moment!
The difference is also that the GSL offers time to prepare, time to rest, and no jet lag before finals. It also doesn't provide a easy journey as long as a player stays in the winners bracket not does it have a extended series final. I could argue that playing against a fully rested and 100% prepared opponent each round is much harder than running through a few players in a row. At least that's how most team sports work and sports like MMA, you prepare for a specific opponent that you study and try to solve (Barcelona vs Real Madrid or Shogun vs Machida).
There's pros and cons to both tournament formats but there's less external factors to winning a GSL compared to a MLG, especially for koreans.
On March 26 2012 20:05 Rinnegan5 wrote: Ppl are saying MKP isnt there yet because he hasnt won a GSL. But imho MLG is much harder to win due to the tournament structure. At GSL you get a week to prepare for just a few matches and at MLG you dont even know who you are gonna play the next half hour in some cases. I rate ppl alot higher who have to depend on their creativity and on the fly play then ppl who win tournaments who get ages to prepare for single opponents(or maybe 2 or 3 in group play). Even though MVP is really good I think in the previous tournaments it has really shown that he has trouble with the amount stamina an MLG requires. The same goes for Nestea. Amazing in GSL but not so much in MLG style. MKP in this case has impressed me so much this MLG with his insanely good micro and marcro its clear that he isnt the same MKP from a few months back. Therefore I dare to say MKP is the best player overall at the moment!
The difference is also that the GSL offers time to prepare, time to rest, and no jet lag before finals. It also doesn't provide a easy journey as long as a player stays in the winners bracket not does it have a extended series final. I could argue that playing against a fully rested and 100% prepared opponent each round is much harder than running through a few players in a row. At least that's how most team sports work and sports like MMA, you prepare for a specific opponent that you study and try to solve (Barcelona vs Real Madrid or Shogun vs Machida).
There's pros and cons to both tournament formats but there's less external factors to winning a GSL compared to a MLG, especially for koreans.
Yes ofcourse its harder to play against a fully rested opponent. But coming fully prepared for the opponent's tactics weighs in alot bigger I think and therefore making it easier on them. Also the fact that you CAN be fully rested makes it easier on players. Like I said I rate creativity and on the fly play and the amount of stamina an MLG takes alot higher then the GSL style tournament. Its a personal preference.
On March 26 2012 20:05 Rinnegan5 wrote: Ppl are saying MKP isnt there yet because he hasnt won a GSL. But imho MLG is much harder to win due to the tournament structure. At GSL you get a week to prepare for just a few matches and at MLG you dont even know who you are gonna play the next half hour in some cases. I rate ppl alot higher who have to depend on their creativity and on the fly play then ppl who win tournaments who get ages to prepare for single opponents(or maybe 2 or 3 in group play). Even though MVP is really good I think in the previous tournaments it has really shown that he has trouble with the amount stamina an MLG requires. The same goes for Nestea. Amazing in GSL but not so much in MLG style. MKP in this case has impressed me so much this MLG with his insanely good micro and marcro its clear that he isnt the same MKP from a few months back. Therefore I dare to say MKP is the best player overall at the moment!
The difference is also that the GSL offers time to prepare, time to rest, and no jet lag before finals. It also doesn't provide a easy journey as long as a player stays in the winners bracket not does it have a extended series final. I could argue that playing against a fully rested and 100% prepared opponent each round is much harder than running through a few players in a row. At least that's how most team sports work and sports like MMA, you prepare for a specific opponent that you study and try to solve (Barcelona vs Real Madrid or Shogun vs Machida).
There's pros and cons to both tournament formats but there's less external factors to winning a GSL compared to a MLG, especially for koreans.
Yes ofcourse its harder to play against a fully rested opponent. But coming fully prepared for the opponent's tactics weighs in alot bigger I think and therefore making it easier on them. Also the fact that you CAN be fully rested makes it easier on players. Like I said I rate creativity and on the fly play and the amount of stamina an MLG takes alot higher then the GSL style tournament. Its a personal preference.
Yeah it's personal perference. I just felt you kinda downplayed the tough part of the system used in the GSL and many other sports. If you prefer stamina and powering through a weekend of games that's your opinion, i personally don't think MVP and Nestea lack the stamina for the actual games. It's more the fact that it seemed like they had trouble adjusting to jet lag, food, and other external factors. That's something i dislike about weekend tournaments, people rate players on their play that weekend yet there's so much that can affect your play when everything's crammed together like that.
On March 26 2012 20:05 Rinnegan5 wrote: Ppl are saying MKP isnt there yet because he hasnt won a GSL. But imho MLG is much harder to win due to the tournament structure. At GSL you get a week to prepare for just a few matches and at MLG you dont even know who you are gonna play the next half hour in some cases. I rate ppl alot higher who have to depend on their creativity and on the fly play then ppl who win tournaments who get ages to prepare for single opponents(or maybe 2 or 3 in group play). Even though MVP is really good I think in the previous tournaments it has really shown that he has trouble with the amount stamina an MLG requires. The same goes for Nestea. Amazing in GSL but not so much in MLG style. MKP in this case has impressed me so much this MLG with his insanely good micro and marcro its clear that he isnt the same MKP from a few months back. Therefore I dare to say MKP is the best player overall at the moment!
The difference is also that the GSL offers time to prepare, time to rest, and no jet lag before finals. It also doesn't provide a easy journey as long as a player stays in the winners bracket not does it have a extended series final. I could argue that playing against a fully rested and 100% prepared opponent each round is much harder than running through a few players in a row. At least that's how most team sports work and sports like MMA, you prepare for a specific opponent that you study and try to solve (Barcelona vs Real Madrid or Shogun vs Machida).
There's pros and cons to both tournament formats but there's less external factors to winning a GSL compared to a MLG, especially for koreans.
Yes ofcourse its harder to play against a fully rested opponent. But coming fully prepared for the opponent's tactics weighs in alot bigger I think and therefore making it easier on them. Also the fact that you CAN be fully rested makes it easier on players. Like I said I rate creativity and on the fly play and the amount of stamina an MLG takes alot higher then the GSL style tournament. Its a personal preference.
In an other hand, there are much more top tier players in the GSL than in MLG so...you are better rest, better prepare but you have to account for stronger opponent. GSL is, for me, the hardest to win because MLG is much more like ladder or online cup for Koreans, a bunch of unknown you have to play safe and scout perfectly to win against and some rounds against strong opponents. GSL is strong opponents all along. Personal preference as well.
MVP is my choice. His style is perfect, i love it, he is a hard worker, he's smarter than many other players and he adds a lot of diversity in his boX. Even when he's slumping because of his wrist he goes farther than most of the others and when he comes back, he destroys just about everything.
MKP is an amazingly talented player, however it feels as if sometimes he's a bit childish in his plays. Like the final game of the GSL finals versus NesTea. He only gets better and better all the time however. I miss MVP. Hopefully he can get back on track soon.
On March 26 2012 19:19 Alasper wrote: If by hottest terran on the planet you mean he wins two foreign tournaments but fails to perform well in the GSL, then sure. MMA has the results in both korean and foreign tournaments to back up HIS throne.
What does MMA have? A GSL? 6 Months ago? A couple cheese-wins vs. Mvp? Thats not enough buddy. MMA didn´t even get as far as Mvp in November when Mvp started to slump. The only King of Terran was Mvp, and with Mvp being injured and slumping there is no king at the moment.
If you aren't going to bring up MMA's latest achievments, then argueing with you is worthless since you can't admit that his results are simply better. Also, cheese wins against mvp? So what you're saying is that MKP's 1st place in the previous winter arena doesn't count? Since you know, he bunker cheesed every game. MMA's achievments are much more impressive then MKP's, sorry. I'll even go ahead and say that without the wrist injury, MVP would probably still be the dominant terran, with MMA and jjakji after him. Stop trying to compare MKP to them.
Also agree with the guy who posted before about people always picking one person every month and saying they are the best. It gets old.
2 rax bunker pressure is way different than 2 rax bunker cheese(which he did one on metalopolis). Sorry but discussing the best terran in the world without even knowing the builds is just silly.
On March 26 2012 20:05 Rinnegan5 wrote: Ppl are saying MKP isnt there yet because he hasnt won a GSL. But imho MLG is much harder to win due to the tournament structure. At GSL you get a week to prepare for just a few matches and at MLG you dont even know who you are gonna play the next half hour in some cases. I rate ppl alot higher who have to depend on their creativity and on the fly play then ppl who win tournaments who get ages to prepare for single opponents(or maybe 2 or 3 in group play). Even though MVP is really good I think in the previous tournaments it has really shown that he has trouble with the amount stamina an MLG requires. The same goes for Nestea. Amazing in GSL but not so much in MLG style. MKP in this case has impressed me so much this MLG with his insanely good micro and marcro its clear that he isnt the same MKP from a few months back. Therefore I dare to say MKP is the best player overall at the moment!
The difference is also that the GSL offers time to prepare, time to rest, and no jet lag before finals. It also doesn't provide a easy journey as long as a player stays in the winners bracket not does it have a extended series final. I could argue that playing against a fully rested and 100% prepared opponent each round is much harder than running through a few players in a row. At least that's how most team sports work and sports like MMA, you prepare for a specific opponent that you study and try to solve (Barcelona vs Real Madrid or Shogun vs Machida).
There's pros and cons to both tournament formats but there's less external factors to winning a GSL compared to a MLG, especially for koreans.
Yes ofcourse its harder to play against a fully rested opponent. But coming fully prepared for the opponent's tactics weighs in alot bigger I think and therefore making it easier on them. Also the fact that you CAN be fully rested makes it easier on players. Like I said I rate creativity and on the fly play and the amount of stamina an MLG takes alot higher then the GSL style tournament. Its a personal preference.
In an other hand, there are much more top tier players in the GSL than in MLG so...you are better rest, better prepare but you have to account for stronger opponent. GSL is, for me, the hardest to win because MLG is much more like ladder or online cup for Koreans, a bunch of unknown you have to play safe and scout perfectly to win against and some rounds against strong opponents. GSL is strong opponents all along. Personal preference as well.
MVP is my choice. His style is perfect, i love it, he is a hard worker, he's smarter than many other players and he adds a lot of diversity in his boX. Even when he's slumping because of his wrist he goes farther than most of the others and when he comes back, he destroys just about everything.
Yeah in terms of opponents GSL is slightly harder even though MLG has alot of top tier koreans these days. Like you I also hope MVP comes back. He is one of my favorite players and he makes me want to watch terrans, just like MKP.
On March 26 2012 20:47 ydeer1993 wrote: Without a GSL MKP cant be number 1, has to be MMA while MVP still slightly slumping, if MKP Wins Season2 then maybe he can be considered
why can't it be jjakji if that's your justification?
On March 26 2012 19:19 Alasper wrote: If by hottest terran on the planet you mean he wins two foreign tournaments but fails to perform well in the GSL, then sure. MMA has the results in both korean and foreign tournaments to back up HIS throne.
What does MMA have? A GSL? 6 Months ago? A couple cheese-wins vs. Mvp? Thats not enough buddy. MMA didn´t even get as far as Mvp in November when Mvp started to slump. The only King of Terran was Mvp, and with Mvp being injured and slumping there is no king at the moment.
If MKP wins GSL Season 2 I might say MKP is the king, but not yet.
Finally I would like to make the point that ONLY the GSL, GSTL and old-school format MLGs with MANY koreans count. IEM, IPL, Dreamhack and that good stuff are nice but don´t mean shit.
MMA has a GSL title and the Blizzard Cup title. If you count MVP's world championship title as a GSL title, as most do, then you may as well count the Blizzard cup as well. That makes 2 championships to MVP's 3. And so what if MVP got one round farther in November? MMA went one round farther in Season 1. Big deal.
And MMA hasn't really been in a slump. He won IEM Kiev and got 3rd in the IEM World Championship this year. He had one bad match in the GSL when he was sick enough to be wearing a mask. Now that seasons are like 2 and a half months long it seems like he's been slumping for a while, but once again, that was only one match. MVP dropped out in the RO32 how many times while still being king?
Also, please watch the matches. MMA is known to incorporate cheese, very unique and innovative cheese lots of the time, but also play a solid macro game. MVP plays almost exclusively macro, but there's value in being able to play multiple styles.
I would say MMA is #1 right now and MKP #2. You just can't be #1 without a GSL title. Here's hoping MKP takes season 2. If he goes up against MMA sometime along the way though, I'll be forced to root for MMA.
Seeing MKP twice have sick micro/macro/multitask I'm leaning towards him. Question seems to be about current king not who did well in the past. MMA + MVP have fallen off. Polt could be a good 2nd choice though.
On March 26 2012 19:19 Alasper wrote: If by hottest terran on the planet you mean he wins two foreign tournaments but fails to perform well in the GSL, then sure. MMA has the results in both korean and foreign tournaments to back up HIS throne.
What does MMA have? A GSL? 6 Months ago? A couple cheese-wins vs. Mvp? Thats not enough buddy. MMA didn´t even get as far as Mvp in November when Mvp started to slump. The only King of Terran was Mvp, and with Mvp being injured and slumping there is no king at the moment.
If you aren't going to bring up MMA's latest achievments, then argueing with you is worthless since you can't admit that his results are simply better. Also, cheese wins against mvp? So what you're saying is that MKP's 1st place in the previous winter arena doesn't count? Since you know, he bunker cheesed every game. MMA's achievments are much more impressive then MKP's, sorry. I'll even go ahead and say that without the wrist injury, MVP would probably still be the dominant terran, with MMA and jjakji after him. Stop trying to compare MKP to them.
Also agree with the guy who posted before about people always picking one person every month and saying they are the best. It gets old.
MMAs achievements in the last half year: - Blizzard Cup - GSL October The foreign tournaments he entered where some foreigner-slaughterfests, that is no achievement. Those two listed wins are by FAR not enough to make you the "king of terran".
Nope, Arena does not count for my personal opinion. Arena had no group stages whatsoever and was pretty much BO3 only. MKP deserved the win, but in Arena a player could just get lucky and avoid 90% of the real competition. Also, Bunkers are no cheese. They´re standard. As a zerg you should expect bunkers from MKP.
On March 26 2012 20:00 Alasper wrote:Also agree with the guy who posted before about people always picking one person every month and saying they are the best. It gets old.
What. Some random, nonsense statement without reason. And why does it get old? BW power ranks are a tradition and always exciting.
On March 26 2012 21:01 NoobSkills wrote: Seeing MKP twice have sick micro/macro/multitask I'm leaning towards him. Question seems to be about current king not who did well in the past. MMA + MVP have fallen off. Polt could be a good 2nd choice though.
MMA hasn't fallen off. Just because he hasn't won a tournament within the past week, doesn't mean he's absent or slumping.
WHERE DOES YOUR LOYALTY LIE? IF THERE IS A CIVIL WAR TOMMORROW WHO WOULD YOU SUPPORT!?
Poll: Where does your loyalty lie?
The Game Genie Terran (MVP) (26)
36%
The King of Marines (MKP) (22)
30%
The Son of the Emperor (MMA) (16)
22%
The Emperor (Boxer) (5)
7%
The Master of Marauders (Polt) (4)
5%
73 total votes
Your vote: Where does your loyalty lie?
(Vote): The Game Genie Terran (MVP) (Vote): The Emperor (Boxer) (Vote): The Son of the Emperor (MMA) (Vote): The King of Marines (MKP) (Vote): The Master of Marauders (Polt)
But if I had to choose, it would be the son of the emperor, MMA. He's just a godlike player and has been doing so good recently. He would've easily taken GSL Code S season 1 2012 if he hadnt been so sick and been eliminated by alive
MKP admitted in the interview after the finals at MLG that he didn't think he could beat DRG in straight up games playing standard, and that he did tricky and weird strategies on purpose because DRG is better than he is.
MKP is good, he wins, but I don't think you can call him the top terran. MMA and Jjakji are both better IMO.
How can you forget polt ?? , the cutest terran alive. Cant you edit your post and add him again (before he notices this awfull omission)
I dont know, its difficult to pinpoint a terran king, contrary to toss and zerg where only a few people would compete for the title So manny good terrans
1-Polt (no probably not, but i like him) 2-Marineking. 3-MVP (hearsaying, never realy seen manny games from him, nor been impressed by the ones i saw but apearently hes kinda good) 4-Bomber.
On March 26 2012 23:30 Whitewing wrote: MKP admitted in the interview after the finals at MLG that he didn't think he could beat DRG in straight up games playing standard, and that he did tricky and weird strategies on purpose because DRG is better than he is.
MKP is good, he wins, but I don't think you can call him the top terran. MMA and Jjakji are both better IMO.
It was very humble of MKP to say, but its far from the truth. Heart pushed DRG with complete standard and I might say MKP playes a lot better marine/tank style compared to Heart.
He didn't really play all that gimmicky, he played one timing push but other than that, 1 game bio with insane control and macro behind it. Its not gimmicky, its just a different style.
On March 26 2012 23:30 Whitewing wrote: MKP admitted in the interview after the finals at MLG that he didn't think he could beat DRG in straight up games playing standard, and that he did tricky and weird strategies on purpose because DRG is better than he is.
MKP is good, he wins, but I don't think you can call him the top terran. MMA and Jjakji are both better IMO.
That's more to do with Zerg's style of play imo. Zerg relies heavily on droning hard and responding as late as possible to get econ lead. Random new timings are a lot more punishing to Zergs than T or P.
I am an MVP fanboy but, after I saw the MLG this weekend and I do not have doubts: MKP is the best terran in the world, at the moment, BY FAR. He has crazy micro, crazy macro, sick multitasking and he is one of the few who is FREAKING unpredictable when he plays. He can cheese the hell out of you or putting 3 OC at 6 minutes, that's the sign of a champion.
On March 26 2012 23:30 Whitewing wrote: MKP admitted in the interview after the finals at MLG that he didn't think he could beat DRG in straight up games playing standard, and that he did tricky and weird strategies on purpose because DRG is better than he is.
MKP is good, he wins, but I don't think you can call him the top terran. MMA and Jjakji are both better IMO.
Lol, way to interprete MKP's words as you wish. You didn't understand well. It's precisely MKP's style to play various and unpredictable strats. He's not saying that DRG is better than he is (in fact he hasn't said that at all, wtf), he is acknowledging DRG's strength by having to use the full spectrum of his play and not the common standard "safe" strats, which is what would do MKP at 20% of his strength (*wink*). I'm assuming by that he's talking about reactor hellion expand into marine tanks and other standard expand builds into standard compositions. He meant that if you only spam that against DRG, it won't work, because DRG is good enough to abuse your predictability that's all. Again, one of MKP's strengths is his unpredictability. It's not like he had to force himself to do "weird" stuff to win, in fact, I don't think he even cheesed successfully once, even though he could have. It's just how he plays, and it defeated the best Zerg in the world resoundingly this week-end. MKP is way ahead of jjakji by far (remember MKP's all kill of NHSH not long ago...and MKP's won a ridiculous amount of games against jjakji, in TvT which is not his best matchup). MMA is very good, and I would put him ahead of MKP if it wasn't for his horrendous TvP. MKP's TvP is just masterful.
by results alone MVP is by far the reigning king of the terrans, and I would still say he's the best terran player in the world
MMA can't seem to win against players that aren't MVP, and MKP has two outside-of-korea championships but has yet to claim the GSL gold
despite MVP's current slumping and "injury" it's only a matter of time before he gets back to where he was
I don't know if MMA will be able to continue his TvT domination now that Ganzi and Taeja have left the SlayerS house either, and MMA has a habit of falling apart to players before getting to the finals
and MKP is good, I'm a huge MKP fan and it's obvious that he's improved to the point where it's not just all flashy micro, but he's nowhere as smart as MVP
Who is the current Terran king? The King of Marines (and Thors, as we saw yesterday) himself, MarineKingPrime.
However, while I am a huge MKP fan, I will admit that MVP was the best until he had his injury, and it's probably only a matter of time until he makes a comeback.
I do have to wonder, though, if he could take down MKP if they had another rematch. Part of me gets the feeling that MKP has learned from his "kongness" and is a lot less likely to choke in the finals than he used to be. Also, we see him using more and more builds that are less predictable, so the chances that MVP can simply cheese him out or play a straight up macro mech game and win are less and less likely. The days of "I train marines, you build tanks, I die" are over.
The other side of the coin is, MKP is the master of TvP, and also dominates TvZ. Part of the strength that players like MVP and MMA have drawn on is their sheer ability to excel in TvT. Now that the amount of Code S Terrans is (finally) starting to dwindle to a more balanced amount, TvT is less important than ever. If the previous Kings of Terran can't learn to deal with the other matchups soon, MKP will remain far ahead of them.
There is no king but I have to say marineking's tvp is probably the best in the world right now, and the same could be said about MMA's tvz. MVP is a mystery at the moment, we don't know how good he is until he shows up at more foreign tournaments and plays some GSL games.
Am I the only one who is curious like hell how Mvp will do this GSL season? He was the best player in the world for quite some time, I cant and wont believe he will fall behind like Nestea did.
On March 27 2012 00:50 ZackAttack wrote: I'm suprised so many people are still going with MVP. I thought the MKP fanboys would be out in force after MLG.
Everyone can see that three GSL titles > a few MLG wins.
We need to wait how MVP will perform in GSL S2 (i wonder if he's back in shape). But MKP definitely improved and maybe those 2 titles will mark his breakthrough - in german i would say: der Knoten ist geplatzt.
In my opinion it is still MVP. Jjakji, MMA and Marineking are coming closer but none of them has shown the consistency yet to be truly crowned as the Terran King. I think Polt is out of the question and needs to show some results in Korea first to be considered as a contender.
I think that right now there surely is no Terran King. Hard to say MVP because I sincerely doubt he'll be the highest placed terran in the upcoming GSL, probably not even top 3. Sure MKP is rocking MLG right now but if you want to be top anything you have to dominate korea. Which leaves MMA who I would say is closest candidate but I've not seen him dominate the TvT match up like MVP used to (even though he seems to have MVP's number).
On March 26 2012 23:32 Rassy wrote: How can you forget polt ?? , the cutest terran alive. Cant you edit your post and add him again (before he notices this awfull omission)
I dont know, its difficult to pinpoint a terran king, contrary to toss and zerg where only a few people would compete for the title So manny good terrans
1-Polt (no probably not, but i like him) 2-Marineking. 3-MVP (hearsaying, never realy seen manny games from him, nor been impressed by the ones i saw but apearently hes kinda good) 4-Bomber.
I guess you don't really follow the pro scene much. Polt is OptimusPrime.WE in the poll, as the poll was created shortly after Polt won the GSL super tournament and took on the title of Optimus. The reason MVP is winning is because he was so much better than everyone except Nestea for several months, January - November 2011. After GSL November where he lost to MMA, he made it to the ro4 in code S the next season, and after that sorta just fell off.
Bomber is wildly inconsistent. He won MLG Raleigh, he's got some all kills in GSTL, and he won code A over MVP during MVP's prime, but he's also lost in terrible fashion to relatively unknown players. I would rate Jjakji over Bomber.
Where is MMA in your list dude? He's better than Bomber and maybe even MVP now.
People are so quick to judge (on everything - which is sad) and make big conclusion afterwards. I'm not saying that MKP is not the best terran in the world. Hell he probably is at the moment,but MLG wins aren't really comparable to GSL titles.
I think something is holding Mvp back, as well as his wrists, maybe he's just not as motivated to practice to win anymore since he already has $250k+ and playing hurts him. But if he were to make a come back with some original play, rather than stubbornly sticking to what he's doing at the moment (macro style, not mixing it up enough, etc) he is definitely the king of terran. At the moment I really think it's up for grabs, MKP really made a strong showing at MLG, but not really enough to be called the 'king' of terran.
Also likewise I don't like how Artosis and Tasteless keep jumping the ship all the time, I mean seriously... NesTea, then Mvp, then MMA, then DRG... now they're calling MKP the best player in the world because he beat DRG?
There is such a thing as style counters, at least from I've witnessed from the past year and a half of Sc2, MMA beats Mvp but loses to Polt, and Polt loses to Mvp, Mvp also beats MKP but loses to DRG and MKP beats DRG, it seems to be an endless cycle of counters to specific styles of play that they have figured out. At the moment I don't think anyone is the king of terran or the best player in the world, but from results the best players from each race are Mvp/MC/NesTea, and that's really all you can fairly judge it on, as the metagame seems to shift so rapidly.
MKP has never beaten MVP in any televised match -.- . Plus, i admit MKP is on fire lately but MVP has won 3 GSL titles,WCG 2011 and Blizzcon Invitational. Results wise, i will still say that MVP is on the lead but not by a large margin.He is undergoing through a small slump but he should bounce back soon enough.
But MKP has shown some sick TvP and TvZ. His TvT is still a bit lacking though. MKP has improved a ton and shown potential to surpass either MVP or MMA and he is still young. But MVP and MMA has posted much better results than him overall so yeah.
1.MVP 2.MMA 3.MKP 4.Gumiho 5.Alive
These are my personal top 5 terrans now. But personally i think MMA is better than MVP at the moment but MVP has posted better results overall.
On March 27 2012 01:37 FakeDeath wrote: MKP has never beaten MVP in any televised match -.- . Plus, i admit MKP is on fire lately but MVP has won 3 GSL titles,WCG 2011 and Blizzcon Invitational. Results wise, i will still say that MVP is on the lead but not by a large margin.He is undergoing through a small slump but he should bounce back soon enough.
you don't have to beat someone to be better than him, because being good in sc2 is not ONE thing, but the sum of being good in 3 different things. if MVP has a better TvT than MKP, but MKP way better TvP and TvZ, he is still the better player.
i see all the people here talk about mvp and a comeback from his slump, but i dont think thats gonna happen anytime soon since he still has so much problem with his CTS
On March 27 2012 01:37 blamekilly wrote: There is no king, people just have very short memory and will just go by latest results.
a year ago MVP a couple months ago MMA 2 weeks ago Polt this week MKP
These guys just haven't been consistent enough to be considered king, not even MVP. I'd rank them like this tho 1a MVP 1b MMA 2-3 MKP/Polt
and the rest.
At least Marineking has been top tier since early on. Sure, he hasn't won code S or even code A (taking 2nd in that to Ganzi), but being a six time finalist in GSL is a big deal. He said in the past that his nerves would get to him in finals and he would fold under the pressure. Apart from that issue, I'd say that MKP has been consistently good for longer than MVP, starting in GSL Open S2.
EDIT: MKP's TvZ and TvP have always been top notch. TvT, his weakness, is pretty much why he doesn't have results as good as MVP.
On March 27 2012 01:37 blamekilly wrote: There is no king, people just have very short memory and will just go by latest results.
a year ago MVP a couple months ago MMA 2 weeks ago Polt this week MKP
These guys just haven't been consistent enough to be considered king, not even MVP. I'd rank them like this tho 1a MVP 1b MMA 2-3 MKP/Polt
and the rest.
At least Marineking has been top tier since early on. Sure, he hasn't won code S or even code A (taking 2nd in that to Ganzi), but being a six time finalist in GSL is a big deal. He said in the past that his nerves would get to him in finals and he would fold under the pressure. Apart from that issue, I'd say that MKP has been consistently good for longer than MVP, starting in GSL Open S2.
EDIT: MKP's TvZ and TvP have always been top notch. TvT, his weakness, is pretty much why he doesn't have results as good as MVP.
In my opinion GSL earnings is the best indicator of how strong a player is. In that regard MKP has been a finalist many times, he is a player that is rather consistent. He has never won a GSL championship though. Now, if this as many say is cause of nerves that he has yet to take a GSL championship, he might be the best player in the world but you can also argue that he is not, since his results dosn't speak well for him compared to players with 3 championships for example.
He might be held back by his nerves but that isn't an excuse.
Starcraft 2 changes so quickly that its hard to use past accomplishments when evaluating who is currently at the top. Historical GSL performance doesn't mean all that much when the top few players may change on a month-to-month basis.
Thats not to say MVP is still not one of the top terrans, but I think you'd have to look at his more recent play to make that statement, and not his GSL victories.
I think looking at how MKP has played recently I would go with MKP as the best all-around TvX.
I feel like MKP is the best terran (and maybe the best player in the world) in LAN-type environments where you have to play lots of games against lots of opponents. He has just so much variation and so many weird yet effective builds he can throw at his opponents, as well as brilliant execution. But I'm not convinced he is as good in the GSL model where you and your opponents are well prepared for your style.
The upcoming code S season is very interesting for the terran players. Can MKP replicate his success at MLG events? Is MVP still limited by his injuries? Has MMA finally fixed his TvP? We also can't forget fantastic players like Jjakji, aLive and Gumiho right behind them.
On March 27 2012 01:37 blamekilly wrote: There is no king, people just have very short memory and will just go by latest results.
a year ago MVP a couple months ago MMA 2 weeks ago Polt this week MKP
These guys just haven't been consistent enough to be considered king, not even MVP. I'd rank them like this tho 1a MVP 1b MMA 2-3 MKP/Polt
and the rest.
At least Marineking has been top tier since early on. Sure, he hasn't won code S or even code A (taking 2nd in that to Ganzi), but being a six time finalist in GSL is a big deal. He said in the past that his nerves would get to him in finals and he would fold under the pressure. Apart from that issue, I'd say that MKP has been consistently good for longer than MVP, starting in GSL Open S2.
EDIT: MKP's TvZ and TvP have always been top notch. TvT, his weakness, is pretty much why he doesn't have results as good as MVP.
In my opinion GSL earnings is the best indicator of how strong a player is. In that regard MKP has been a finalist many times, he is a player that is rather consistent. He has never won a GSL championship though. Now, if this as many say is cause of nerves that he has yet to take a GSL championship, he might be the best player in the world but you can also argue that he is not, since his results dosn't speak well for him compared to players with 3 championships for example.
He might be held back by his nerves but that isn't an excuse.
GSL earnings is not a good indicator, because the winner gets double the amount that the finalist does. MKP recently said that he no longer feels that he is the best player on his team (saying that Creator and Byun are better) and that took the pressure off him, allowing him to play better. This was from the GSTL interview after he all-killed NSHoSeo lol.
On March 27 2012 02:53 Bagi wrote: I feel like MKP is the best terran (and maybe the best player in the world) in LAN-type environments where you have to play lots of games against lots of opponents. He has just so much variation and so many weird yet effective builds he can throw at his opponents, as well as brilliant execution. But I'm not convinced he is as good in the GSL model where you and your opponents are well prepared for your style.
The upcoming code S season is very interesting for the terran players. Can MKP replicate his success at MLG events? Is MVP still limited by his injuries? Has MMA finally fixed his TvP? We also can't forget fantastic players like Jjakji, aLive and Gumiho right behind them.
MKP did recently say that he stopped using premade build orders and styles and improvises as he goes. This really allows him to play outside the box and makes him hard to predict without him needing time to prepare unusual builds. This approach isn't as strong in GSL where everyone gets time to prepare builds, but still, I'd love to be able to play like that.
On March 27 2012 01:37 FakeDeath wrote: MKP has never beaten MVP in any televised match -.- . Plus, i admit MKP is on fire lately but MVP has won 3 GSL titles,WCG 2011 and Blizzcon Invitational. Results wise, i will still say that MVP is on the lead but not by a large margin.He is undergoing through a small slump but he should bounce back soon enough.
But MKP has shown some sick TvP and TvZ. His TvT is still a bit lacking though. MKP has improved a ton and shown potential to surpass either MVP or MMA and he is still young. But MVP and MMA has posted much better results than him overall so yeah.
1.MVP 2.MMA 3.MKP 4.Gumiho 5.Alive
These are my personal top 5 terrans now. But personally i think MMA is better than MVP at the moment but MVP has posted better results overall.
GSL earnings is not a good indicator, because the winner gets double the amount that the finalist does. MKP recently said that he no longer feels that he is the best player on his team (saying that Creator and Byun are better) and that took the pressure off him, allowing him to play better. This was from the GSTL interview after he all-killed NSHoSeo lol.
By GSL earnings I mean GSL titles, not the amount of money you have made, sorry for the misunderstanding.
On March 27 2012 01:37 FakeDeath wrote: MKP has never beaten MVP in any televised match -.- . Plus, i admit MKP is on fire lately but MVP has won 3 GSL titles,WCG 2011 and Blizzcon Invitational. Results wise, i will still say that MVP is on the lead but not by a large margin.He is undergoing through a small slump but he should bounce back soon enough.
But MKP has shown some sick TvP and TvZ. His TvT is still a bit lacking though. MKP has improved a ton and shown potential to surpass either MVP or MMA and he is still young. But MVP and MMA has posted much better results than him overall so yeah.
1.MVP 2.MMA 3.MKP 4.Gumiho 5.Alive
These are my personal top 5 terrans now. But personally i think MMA is better than MVP at the moment but MVP has posted better results overall.
Really?
Not Jjakji? Not Polt?
Probably Jjakji but just cause you win a tournament doesnt neccesarly mean you are better then players who have not (MKP till like 2 months ago lol), you can make a arguement for polt but just like HuK he has only gotten really good results (None TvT) outside of Korea. Which is where all the "Prestige" is. But the fact that he did win a big tournament and then hit a slump and then started winning again does probably make him better then Gumiho. But the reason Gumiho is probably up there is because of how f'ing fast he is. If you've ever matched him on the ladder it feels like you are getting hit, and those punches are really weak but they are so fast that you eventually get knocked out lol.
My notes on MKP being Terran King:
This is beside the point of him winning two MLG's because people like to jump on the bandwagon of who wins the next tournament = best player in the world. But if you ever got to watch MKP from replays on BNet where he actually is hands down the best player when it comes too online play. The thing holding him back has been his nerves and hes still not playing 100%. When he plays from his house, or team house (wherever he plays bnet from) it looks exactly how you'd think Flash/Jd/Bisu are going to play the game. Nearly absolutely perfect play. Starting out with aggressive cheesey builds and if they don't work he has a solid macro plan to follow up on. MKP has been the best terran since GSL Open S2, but his nerves have always gotten the best of him.
What has MVP done recently? Anyone who is blindly voting for him still has GOMTVT as their slogan. Please watch the GSL before jumping up and down screaming for a player or race.
Ive always thought Marineking was the best Terran after it was rumoured he held Place 1,2 and 3 on the Korean ladder at the same time. That micro can't be replicated easily, and his macro is picking up now so unless someone finds a way to hard counter him, hes going to earn alot this year.
On March 27 2012 01:37 FakeDeath wrote: MKP has never beaten MVP in any televised match -.- . Plus, i admit MKP is on fire lately but MVP has won 3 GSL titles,WCG 2011 and Blizzcon Invitational. Results wise, i will still say that MVP is on the lead but not by a large margin.He is undergoing through a small slump but he should bounce back soon enough.
But MKP has shown some sick TvP and TvZ. His TvT is still a bit lacking though. MKP has improved a ton and shown potential to surpass either MVP or MMA and he is still young. But MVP and MMA has posted much better results than him overall so yeah.
1.MVP 2.MMA 3.MKP 4.Gumiho 5.Alive
These are my personal top 5 terrans now. But personally i think MMA is better than MVP at the moment but MVP has posted better results overall.
Really?
Not Jjakji? Not Polt?
Probably Jjakji but just cause you win a tournament doesnt neccesarly mean you are better then players who have not (MKP till like 2 months ago lol), you can make a arguement for polt but just like HuK he has only gotten really good results (None TvT) outside of Korea. Which is where all the "Prestige" is. But the fact that he did win a big tournament and then hit a slump and then started winning again does probably make him better then Gumiho. But the reason Gumiho is probably up there is because of how f'ing fast he is. If you've ever matched him on the ladder it feels like you are getting hit, and those punches are really weak but they are so fast that you eventually get knocked out lol.
My notes on MKP being Terran King:
This is beside the point of him winning two MLG's because people like to jump on the bandwagon of who wins the next tournament = best player in the world. But if you ever got to watch MKP from replays on BNet where he actually is hands down the best player when it comes too online play. The thing holding him back has been his nerves and hes still not playing 100%. When he plays from his house, or team house (wherever he plays bnet from) it looks exactly how you'd think Flash/Jd/Bisu are going to play the game. Nearly absolutely perfect play. Starting out with aggressive cheesey builds and if they don't work he has a solid macro plan to follow up on. MKP has been the best terran since GSL Open S2, but his nerves have always gotten the best of him.
I find it hard to correctly judge a player that far back with nerves taken into account. You're essentially saying that MKP would have beaten MVP in the two finals where they met, if MKP wasn't affected by his nerves? How can you know this is the case?
...remember that thing about not defining who is the best off one tournament? this applies.
sure MKP is doing great, but if MVP had showed up to this MLG, would he definitely been a contender to win? what about MMA? He beats DRG regularly too. MKP shows that he is a great terran, but I don't know if I'm ready to definitively call him better than MMA/MVP both of whom have suffered a lack of exposure simply from not playing that many matches in 2012
On March 27 2012 03:23 GMonster wrote: MKP has been the best terran since GSL Open S2, but his nerves have always gotten the best of him.
Sorry, but no. MVP spent months last year absolutely thrashing everyone in the world, including MKP. Getting your nerves under control is part of greatness, and you can't be considered the best if you crumble under pressure like MKP did so often.
On March 27 2012 03:23 GMonster wrote: MKP has been the best terran since GSL Open S2, but his nerves have always gotten the best of him.
Sorry, but no. MVP spent months last year absolutely thrashing everyone in the world, including MKP. Getting your nerves under control is part of greatness, and you can't be considered the best if you crumble under pressure like MKP did so often.
I agree. The question here is who is the best, not who has the potential to be the best even though their nerves stop them from proving it.. MVP still.
Yeah, MKP is up there, but part of that is just because we have seen so much more of him than MVP/MMA in the last few months. Don't get me wrong, he absolutely beasted in the MLGs, but I just want to see MMA/MVP actually play a decent amount before we start calling MKP the current king.
MVP is still the most accomplished sc2 player ever, if you are counting JUST 2012 then it's MKP for sure. Don't forget about MMA, he's won an MLG, 2 GSL championships, etc.
The way MKP has been winning TvP and TvZ recently feels so MCish, but so dominant. He just streams units across the map and demolishes players with good macro and insane micro. He's definitely come so much farther than the cheese Terran he was a year ago, but I still think MVP/MMA have more finesee and strategy in their play.
MKP I feel right now, until MVP gets his wrists fixed I don't think he'll be able to play as well as he should be, and MMA I haven't heard much of since blizzcon. =(
Just want to bump this thread - after all the talk about MKP (who I think is the current best terran though anyways), MVP showing he has what it takes to win! He's doing it in adversity as well (against the backdrop of protoss dominance)!
"Mvp is the most winningest player in Starcraft 2 to date" - Artosis
The fact is that he is solid in ALL match-ups, and shines in each one in a different way. MKP's speciality is TvP, MMA TvZ, aLive TvT, but nobody (maybe TaeJa, but still) has been able to master all three match-ups in the same fashion as Mvp.
MVP in his prime is without a doubt not just the best terran but the best player overall in sc2. His TvZ was on par with MMA's, his TvT was the best in the world and I also haven't seen him lose too much TvP. People have been shaking in fear for months from simply hearing his name. So no, MKP is not the "Terran King". He'll have to win and dominate everything for a little longer.
On another note, why in the hell does my browser warn me because of malware when I'm trying to open the first page of this thread. lol
yeah atm MVP on the throne, MKP MMA to his sides, Polt behind the curtains (insert WHO IS THIS GUY joke here), and then many other skilled terrans in the room. (gogo taeja!)
but this already unstable setting will be tested when BW progamers come, i hope "our" current terrans can show that their play and competion amounts to more than can be beaten in a few months of practice, but i am very excited how BW players will approach this.
On May 03 2012 02:16 madsweepslol wrote: Gonna have to go with MKP over MVP/MMA, just because he's active right now.
MMA's got Iron Squid this weekend, and he could go far.
Basically, I think there are the big 4 right now:
MVP (Obvious reasons, despite his slump he is still incredibly good and now is in the semifinals) MMA (2nd most accomplished Terran in GSL after MVP, strong showings in IEM, IPL, Iron Squid, and until recently, GSL) MKP (Dominated MLG, did very well in GSTL for his team) aLive (Very strong GSL performance until this season, won IPL 4, going to Paris for Iron Squid)
Can't really say there is 1 player out of these 4 who really is above the rest. I'm an MMA fan, so naturally I think he would be the best, but this list is my attempt to be as objective as possible.
On May 03 2012 02:16 madsweepslol wrote: Gonna have to go with MKP over MVP/MMA, just because he's active right now.
What do you mean active? Mvp is the one in the semifinals of GSL, MKP is the one who lost in the Ro16... That said, I agree with the poster before me, it's pretty close between Mvp, MKP, MMA, and aLive (maybe Taeja too?). I guess I'd say that Marineking is playing the best atm, but it does not mean he is THE best terran player.
On May 03 2012 04:09 GohgamX wrote: MKP on the rise, unless... MVP gets out of his slump.
He never slumped, last season he was just not as dominant as he usually is and that was something minor and mostly because of massive health problems. Mkp is on fire lately and probably in better form than Mvp, but still...Mvp was to dominant for too long ans imo he is Overall the better player. He is still the king and I doubt he will be replaced any time soon, unless some other terran just magicaly pulls 3 gsl championships and even more runs to the Ro4 out of his hat.
On May 03 2012 02:16 madsweepslol wrote: Gonna have to go with MKP over MVP/MMA, just because he's active right now.
What do you mean active? Mvp is the one in the semifinals of GSL, MKP is the one who lost in the Ro16... That said, I agree with the poster before me, it's pretty close between Mvp, MKP, MMA, and aLive (maybe Taeja too?). I guess I'd say that Marineking is playing the best atm, but it does not mean he is THE best terran player.
And how many other tournaments has MKP won recently? Mvp recently?
On May 03 2012 04:09 GohgamX wrote: MKP on the rise, unless... MVP gets out of his slump.
He never slumped, last season he was just not as dominant as he usually is and that was something minor and mostly because of massive health problems. Mkp is on fire lately and probably in better form than Mvp, but still...Mvp was to dominant for too long ans imo he is Overall the better player. He is still the king and I doubt he will be replaced any time soon, unless some other terran just magicaly pulls 3 gsl championships and even more runs to the Ro4 out of his hat.
I think MKP is better as of right now but that is only because of MVP's wrist problems. I do believe if MVP didn't have his wrist problems he would still be the best terran by far like 2011. He has said himself he can't practice that much due to his wrists, this shows when he is losing to players he used to steam roll easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I hope his wrists get fixed soon because honestly I really enjoyed when MVP was so dominant in winning most tournaments he entered, making it far in like every GSL, etc.
MKP. He has had the best results recently without even playing at 50% of his potential, because of nerves & stuff. However Mvp is the king mental / champion wise, MKP's raw skill is better but will he ever perform as good as he should? Hard to predict, but result wise MKP has had the best. But since he didn't win a GSL yet I won't vote for anybody.
On May 03 2012 04:09 GohgamX wrote: MKP on the rise, unless... MVP gets out of his slump.
He never slumped, last season he was just not as dominant as he usually is and that was something minor and mostly because of massive health problems. Mkp is on fire lately and probably in better form than Mvp, but still...Mvp was to dominant for too long ans imo he is Overall the better player. He is still the king and I doubt he will be replaced any time soon, unless some other terran just magicaly pulls 3 gsl championships and even more runs to the Ro4 out of his hat.
I think MKP is better as of right now but that is only because of MVP's wrist problems. I do believe if MVP didn't have his wrist problems he would still be the best terran by far like 2011. He has said himself he can't practice that much due to his wrists, this shows when he is losing to players he used to steam roll easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I hope his wrists get fixed soon because honestly I really enjoyed when MVP was so dominant in winning most tournaments he entered, making it far in like every GSL, etc.
MKP is better as of now, yet who is in the semi-finals?
On May 03 2012 05:17 Poopi wrote: MKP. He has had the best results recently without even playing at 50% of his potential, because of nerves & stuff. However Mvp is the king mental / champion wise, MKP's raw skill is better but will he ever perform as good as he should? Hard to predict, but result wise MKP has had the best. But since he didn't win a GSL yet I won't vote for anybody.
He beat DRG twice and he's playing at 50% of his potential?
Lol, damn he must be better at SC2 than Flash is at BW at his 100% potential.
On May 03 2012 05:31 Fus wrote: I cant belive so many vote MVP, it's not that he is way better than every other terran. But my vote goes with MVP anyway! XD
This thread is from a year ago, when MVP was unquestionably the best Terran player and probably the best player in the world.
Nowadays I don't think he is, he's looked beatable every round this tournament and I think if he was to play DRG, MKP or MMA he would probably lose a Bo5 to all of them.
Of course if he beats PartinG I will personally apologise to MVP for ever doubting that he wasn't the best Terran, but I don't think he will, PartinG is just too good at PvT.
mvp was the best, but his wrists have gone to shreds and he can only scrape by through massive amounts of cheese. he certainly doesnt have the stamina to play more than 2 long macro games within one BoX series...
marineking is maybe the strongest terran mechanics-wise, but he still is a notorious choker - no matter how many mlg arenas he wins.
bomber and mma have huge potential aswell, but havent performend up to their standard recently.
the others are no competition for this title anyway.
On May 03 2012 04:09 GohgamX wrote: MKP on the rise, unless... MVP gets out of his slump.
He never slumped, last season he was just not as dominant as he usually is and that was something minor and mostly because of massive health problems. Mkp is on fire lately and probably in better form than Mvp, but still...Mvp was to dominant for too long ans imo he is Overall the better player. He is still the king and I doubt he will be replaced any time soon, unless some other terran just magicaly pulls 3 gsl championships and even more runs to the Ro4 out of his hat.
I think MKP is better as of right now but that is only because of MVP's wrist problems. I do believe if MVP didn't have his wrist problems he would still be the best terran by far like 2011. He has said himself he can't practice that much due to his wrists, this shows when he is losing to players he used to steam roll easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I hope his wrists get fixed soon because honestly I really enjoyed when MVP was so dominant in winning most tournaments he entered, making it far in like every GSL, etc.
MKP is better as of now, yet who is in the semi-finals?
MKP had just flown MLG spring event to the Ro. 16, even Tasteless said he wasn't at his best physically (Jet lag etc.), that is one reason why he got knocked out. He also did amazing games in his group, just barely got left out from Ro. 8.
On May 03 2012 04:09 GohgamX wrote: MKP on the rise, unless... MVP gets out of his slump.
He never slumped, last season he was just not as dominant as he usually is and that was something minor and mostly because of massive health problems. Mkp is on fire lately and probably in better form than Mvp, but still...Mvp was to dominant for too long ans imo he is Overall the better player. He is still the king and I doubt he will be replaced any time soon, unless some other terran just magicaly pulls 3 gsl championships and even more runs to the Ro4 out of his hat.
I think MKP is better as of right now but that is only because of MVP's wrist problems. I do believe if MVP didn't have his wrist problems he would still be the best terran by far like 2011. He has said himself he can't practice that much due to his wrists, this shows when he is losing to players he used to steam roll easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I hope his wrists get fixed soon because honestly I really enjoyed when MVP was so dominant in winning most tournaments he entered, making it far in like every GSL, etc.
MKP is better as of now, yet who is in the semi-finals?
I like MVP a lot lot lot more then MKP but while he is in the semi finals who just made 3 finals almost in a row? MKP, won 2 mlg's, placed really far in IPL4 which was the closest to a code S tournament and then lost to DRG 4-3 in the last tournament.
I actually really dislike mkp, but I know he is doing better then MVP as of right now. One tournament and being knocked out in the ro16 doesn't automatically mean mkp is awful or way worse then MVP.
On May 03 2012 04:09 GohgamX wrote: MKP on the rise, unless... MVP gets out of his slump.
He never slumped, last season he was just not as dominant as he usually is and that was something minor and mostly because of massive health problems. Mkp is on fire lately and probably in better form than Mvp, but still...Mvp was to dominant for too long ans imo he is Overall the better player. He is still the king and I doubt he will be replaced any time soon, unless some other terran just magicaly pulls 3 gsl championships and even more runs to the Ro4 out of his hat.
I think MKP is better as of right now but that is only because of MVP's wrist problems. I do believe if MVP didn't have his wrist problems he would still be the best terran by far like 2011. He has said himself he can't practice that much due to his wrists, this shows when he is losing to players he used to steam roll easy peasy lemon squeezy.
I hope his wrists get fixed soon because honestly I really enjoyed when MVP was so dominant in winning most tournaments he entered, making it far in like every GSL, etc.
MKP is better as of now, yet who is in the semi-finals?
I like MVP a lot lot lot more then MKP but while he is in the semi finals who just made 3 finals almost in a row? MKP, won 2 mlg's, placed really far in IPL4 which was the closest to a code S tournament and then lost to DRG 4-3 in the last tournament.
I actually really dislike mkp, but I know he is doing better then MVP as of right now. One tournament and being knocked out in the ro16 doesn't automatically mean mkp is awful or way worse then MVP.
I never said MKP is awful, I just made it clear that MKP dropped out of Code S while Mvp is still in, and people were talking about at current times, well at current times Mvp is further in the hardest SC2 tournament on the planet, and he plays 'not so good as normal' Because he has freaking the worst ever version of CTS I don't know why noone understands that.
It says enough that while he has CTS he is still capable of getting RO4.
On May 03 2012 05:41 Black Gun wrote: there is currently no king.
mvp was the best, but his wrists have gone to shreds and he can only scrape by through massive amounts of cheese. he certainly doesnt have the stamina to play more than 2 long macro games within one BoX series...
marineking is maybe the strongest terran mechanics-wise, but he still is a notorious choker - no matter how many mlg arenas he wins.
bomber and mma have huge potential aswell, but havent performend up to their standard recently.
the others are no competition for this title anyway.
Are you kidding me? Watch his ro16 games and tell me he can't play macro games, I swear people forget everything that happens after a week.
Game 2 and 3 against Leenock were the BEST TvZ's so far this year.
On May 03 2012 05:41 Black Gun wrote: there is currently no king.
mvp was the best, but his wrists have gone to shreds and he can only scrape by through massive amounts of cheese. he certainly doesnt have the stamina to play more than 2 long macro games within one BoX series...
marineking is maybe the strongest terran mechanics-wise, but he still is a notorious choker - no matter how many mlg arenas he wins.
bomber and mma have huge potential aswell, but havent performend up to their standard recently.
the others are no competition for this title anyway.
Are you kidding me? Watch his ro16 games and tell me he can't play macro games, I swear people forget everything that happens after a week.
Game 2 and 3 against Leenock were the BEST TvZ's so far this year.
Dude he wrote, that MvP can't play many Macro Games in a row anymore because of his illness. He never said mvp can't play macro games in general, everyone knows that MVP was one of the most solid Terrans in lategame. I think everyone understood that except for you. Read more carefully before writing biased posts...
On May 03 2012 05:41 Black Gun wrote: there is currently no king.
mvp was the best, but his wrists have gone to shreds and he can only scrape by through massive amounts of cheese. he certainly doesnt have the stamina to play more than 2 long macro games within one BoX series...
marineking is maybe the strongest terran mechanics-wise, but he still is a notorious choker - no matter how many mlg arenas he wins.
bomber and mma have huge potential aswell, but havent performend up to their standard recently.
the others are no competition for this title anyway.
Are you kidding me? Watch his ro16 games and tell me he can't play macro games, I swear people forget everything that happens after a week.
Game 2 and 3 against Leenock were the BEST TvZ's so far this year.
Dude he wrote, that MvP can't play many Macro Games in a row anymore because of his illness. He never said mvp can't play macro games in general, everyone knows that MVP was one of the most solid Terrans in lategame. I think everyone understood that except for you. Read more carefully before writing biased posts...
You have no idea what you're talking about, Dodgin is completely correct. The only game of Mvp's that was less than 15 minutes this season (until his match vs Naniwa) was one vs Leenock (where he was baneling busted), and he has had several 30 minute games as well. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the highest average game length this season.
On May 03 2012 05:41 Black Gun wrote: there is currently no king.
mvp was the best, but his wrists have gone to shreds and he can only scrape by through massive amounts of cheese. he certainly doesnt have the stamina to play more than 2 long macro games within one BoX series...
marineking is maybe the strongest terran mechanics-wise, but he still is a notorious choker - no matter how many mlg arenas he wins.
bomber and mma have huge potential aswell, but havent performend up to their standard recently.
the others are no competition for this title anyway.
Are you kidding me? Watch his ro16 games and tell me he can't play macro games, I swear people forget everything that happens after a week.
Game 2 and 3 against Leenock were the BEST TvZ's so far this year.
Dude he wrote, that MvP can't play many Macro Games in a row anymore because of his illness. He never said mvp can't play macro games in general, everyone knows that MVP was one of the most solid Terrans in lategame. I think everyone understood that except for you. Read more carefully before writing biased posts...
He can play many macro games in a row, he did it in the ro16. He played 9 games and majority of them went long, It may not be easy but he can do it. Especially if It's only for one series instead of three. It's not biased it's just ridiculous to say he can't tough it out for one or two hours for one bo5 series.
This poll is probably irrelevant since it was created last year, even look at the accomplishments, they aren't updated. MVP was by far the most accomplished player back then, but you cant say the same thing right now. U can totally get misdirected........
MKP is the best as of now. His TvP and TvZ are probably the best in the world, with TvT being his achilles heel. Had he not hit a 3T+Parting group, he could have won easily. He very nearly made it out anyway. No terran in the world can beat parting right now.
Taeja isn't on the poll but hes worth a shot as a dark horse in the comming months if he keeps up his winrates, theres a reason hes been sitting at number 1 in korean ELO for while now.
The guys been tearing up the smaller korean tournaments and hes still in this season of GSL, if he can fight off the waves of Protoss to lift the trophy it'll give this claim a bit more foundation.
The two back-to-back MLG were absolutely dominating, considering they were both winner's bracket performances and in both of them, he totally destroyed DRG.
Not to mention that getting in the GSL Finals TWICE is better than winning it once for sure and not far behind winning it twice
Plus, he's just the most entertaining player to watch. You never know what strategy he will come out with, you just know that whatever it is, he's going to execute it brilliantly and push the abilities to micro in starcraft 2 to the LIMITS.
But I agree, someone needs to UPDATE THE ACHEIVEMENTS ON THE ORIGINAL POST.
MvP doesn't dominate like he did a year or two ago.
If MVP can beat Parting he will reclaim his title of King, but realistically there really isn't any truly consistent Terran that has claimed the throne. Even though MKP will always be the true King in my heart ♥
On May 03 2012 18:02 Bwiggly wrote: If MVP can beat Parting he will reclaim his title of King, but realistically there really isn't any truly consistent Terran that has claimed the throne. Even though MKP will always be the true King in my heart ♥
Who is more consistent than MVP? Have you seen his results? People thinking he's out of it at the moment and he's still in Ro4.
He's not perfect king, but he's still gotta be the king.
I dont even know why anyone doubts Mvp is the King, he is in his 4th Ro4 in 5 Seasons of gsl in a row with winning 1 and getting 2nd in the other, plus wcg, plus blizzcon, plus 2 more gsl titles, plus mlg, plus wrist injury...
MMA will always be Terran king in my heart! All homo!! MVP and MMA best TvT rivalry, so it's one or the other. Mad respect for MVP though for making it to ro4 with CTS.
On May 03 2012 20:09 aznball123 wrote: MMA will always be Terran king in my heart! All homo!! MVP and MMA best TvT rivalry, so it's one or the other. Mad respect for MVP though for making it to ro4 with CTS.
Same! Although MVP will always be the terran king for me. And their rivalry is really the best next are MMA & DRG, MKP & Parting
Funny how when 3/4 players in the semis are protoss people complain that T has no chance vP - yet the only terran manages to win. That being said, MVP played really well Still don't know if I'd personally rate him higher than MKP
It is and always has been the same answer: MVP by far. No other Terran ever was close to him. (yeah he lost to MMA and other Terrans were good as well in the past, but there have been 2players yet that somewhat dominated and those were Nestea and MVP, all others are extremly up and down)
Oh, it's because he knows what champions know that regular folks don't: How to win!
Seriously though: MKP is the most skilled SC2 Terran pro though, but MVP is mentally stronger and has better in-game tactical decision making (on average, not always).
On May 19 2012 22:52 althaz wrote: MVP is obviously the King.
/Thread.
Oh, it's because he knows what champions know that regular folks don't: How to win!
Seriously though: MKP is the most skilled SC2 Terran pro though, but MVP is mentally stronger and has better in-game tactical decision making (on average, not always).
I totally agree. MKP is mechanically (micro, macro) the best SC2 player right now. But he gives too many games away. MVP knows how to win and has good enough mechanics (even now with his wrist injury) to be able to execute what is necessay. Until the players, that are mechanically much stronger than him, learn to make fewer mistakes, he will be the King of SC2.
MVP for sure, and he will still be the best Terran in SC2 for a long time after the BW pro switch.
MVP got into RO8 in MSL after beating the 2 best PvT'ers (Stork and Best), 2-0'ed Baby, and lost 1-3 to Flash. Nobody knew how good he would be in Broodwar had he stayed. He had great mechanics even by Broodwar standards back then and his understanding of SC2 from his experience will keep him in his throne for a much longer time.
MVP, MKP, and Bomber all have incredible talent. But mkp and bomber crack under pressure. Both of them drop mules before the game is over and play with far too much emotion. MVP is a champion and like all champions he has the ability to detach from the game and always bring his best. 4 championships should give him the confidence to be the top player for years to come.
He totally outplayed squirtle. Anyone using the game to say anything about balance is sorely mistaken. The only thing OP is MVP.
I am still unsure as to who is currently best out of MVP and MKP after MVP's comeback from wrist problems. No doubt winning code S is huge, but you only have to defeat, what five or six opponents? There is a good chance that you won't even be tested against your weakest match-up.
I would like to see MKP and MVP fight it out. TvT is MKP's weakest match-up I feel, but that's mainly because his others are so strong! I actually have no persuasion either way as to who would win that TvT. I want to see it.
MVP's TvP looks very fragile, whereas I feel MKP has the best handle on that match-up in the world. MVP relies on cheese or unorthodox build orders to catch players off guard. MKP pressures like crazy in the mid game to take a late game lead and finish it off. That is apparently how TvP should be played, and he is the best.
We haven't seen MVP play a TvZ in a while owing to the nature of the GSL format. MKP's TvZ on the other hand is scary; he gives DRG plenty of trouble every time they meet.
I'm leaning towards giving MKP a slight edge as best Terran at the moment. But things can change in a matter of weeks. Hopefully we see MVP at some foreign events so he can get more exposure - and possibly prove that he IS the best.
On May 20 2012 01:57 monkybone wrote: I feel that you can't really compare the qualities of MKP and MvP. It's the fight between micro vs experienced decision making and player-oriented strategy AND MACRO AND CLEVERNESS.
Fixed that for you
Basically MKP has better micro than Mvp, but Mvp has better everything else
On May 20 2012 01:57 monkybone wrote: I feel that you can't really compare the qualities of MKP and MvP. It's the fight between micro vs experienced decision making and player-oriented strategy AND MACRO AND CLEVERNESS.
Fixed that for you
Basically MKP has better micro than Mvp, but Mvp has better everything else
No, I think MKP is the best Terran mechanically right now. His macro is simply amazing.
The poll style is kind of wrong, people are massively influenced by the results already shown (humans do not like to be part of a minority). Sigh, maybe I shouldnt take stuff so seriously :D
I'm torn between MKP and MVP. I believe MKP has the highest potential out of all of the current SC2 progamers, but MVP does have the best results, and his overall play currently tops anyone elses. I've gone with MVP before, and I'll go with MVP now.
On May 20 2012 04:32 Talin wrote: Poor MMA, how the mighty have fallen :<
Not yet. Can't be too quick to count people out after a single bad tournament. A lot of people were calling MVP washed up and too injured to play at the beginning of 2012, and then he wins the GSL. MMA will continue to kick-ass throughout 2012.
MKP will always be king, just as MC is president and Flash is bonjwa. MVP can have another royal title.. There are reasons for multiple terms and definitions, right?
On May 20 2012 06:39 Rumudiez wrote: MKP will always be king, just as MC is president and Flash is bonjwa. MVP can have another royal title.. There are reasons for multiple terms and definitions, right?
On May 20 2012 01:37 CaptainCharisma wrote: I am still unsure as to who is currently best out of MVP and MKP after MVP's comeback from wrist problems. No doubt winning code S is huge, but you only have to defeat, what five or six opponents? There is a good chance that you won't even be tested against your weakest match-up.
I would like to see MKP and MVP fight it out. TvT is MKP's weakest match-up I feel, but that's mainly because his others are so strong! I actually have no persuasion either way as to who would win that TvT. I want to see it.
MVP's TvP looks very fragile, whereas I feel MKP has the best handle on that match-up in the world. MVP relies on cheese or unorthodox build orders to catch players off guard. MKP pressures like crazy in the mid game to take a late game lead and finish it off. That is apparently how TvP should be played, and he is the best.
We haven't seen MVP play a TvZ in a while owing to the nature of the GSL format. MKP's TvZ on the other hand is scary; he gives DRG plenty of trouble every time they meet.
I'm leaning towards giving MKP a slight edge as best Terran at the moment. But things can change in a matter of weeks. Hopefully we see MVP at some foreign events so he can get more exposure - and possibly prove that he IS the best.
Um Mvp played Leenock in the RO16 in one of the most amazing TvZ series to date (only the winner stayed in Code S)
When they have played each other in the past Mvp has destroyed MarineKing. With how each player approaches the matchup I don't see it being any different now either
If we still say Mvp is not the terran king, then no one is. No one else has the results he has. The previous GSL he won was "the hardest road" as described by many due to every opponent being a previous GSL winner. This GSL, he won by going against "his weakest match-up" and against the "best PvT-er". Come on now, this guy has 4 GSL trophies, 1 Blizzcon, 1 MLG, and im probably forgetting more. I also think Mvp is the best player currently.
I think with our latest code s results and in the current meta game, having 3 protoss ro4 players, we can assume that MvP is for sure the terran king and best sc2 player in the world.
I mean, MVP has always been my favorite Terran but I gotta say I find it abit suspicious that this thread pops up ones again when MVP just won a GSL. I don't think you could find a more biased time to bump this thread =p
This would have looked completely different a little while ago cause people would have voted MKP and before that MMA I guess.
But it just so happen to appear again now..hmmm :p
These polls are so silly. Whoever has the most recent big tournament win wins the poll every time, regardless of what history says. SC2 fans just have pathetically short memories, most people don't understand that pros have off-days and off-tournaments every now and then. You can't judge a player off of 5 or 6 recent matches or even big tournament results--the game is volatile and believe it or not tournament results are somewhat random and fairly luck-based. You have to look at a player's history of overall results and most importantly, gameplay. With this in mind Mvp is clearly the Terran king, and has been since he started dominating during the first non-open GSL.
On May 20 2012 09:09 ChrysaliS_ wrote: These polls are so silly. Whoever has the most recent big tournament win wins the poll every time, regardless of what history says. SC2 fans just have pathetically short memories, most people don't understand that pros have off-days and off-tournaments every now and then. You can't judge a player off of 5 or 6 recent matches or even big tournament results--the game is volatile and believe it or not tournament results are somewhat random and fairly luck-based. You have to look at a player's history of overall results and most importantly, gameplay. With this in mind Mvp is clearly the Terran king, and has been since he started dominating during the first non-open GSL.
There should have been a 'King Of 'tournament. The best X's vs all the best Y's and Z's round robin, then we'll see who is the king of each respective race.
But with what we have now, I'd have to put MVP on top, although I still think MMA, MKP and Puma are easily contenders.
MVP is not only the king of terran but he is also the best player in SC2. TvP is his weakest MU but he killed 2 strongest protosses in the world at this state of TvP metagme. I don't even count how many titles he won.
EPT
NesTea is the king of Zerg and 
MC is the king of toss, but the king of Terran is much more difficult to determine. It seems like every day, a new Terran emerges and stuns us with his solid macro, multi-tasking, or insane builds. Korea is like a reactored barracks churning out top level terrans at a fast pace. In fact, the top 20 of Korean grandmaster league is predominantly Terran players. The amount of great European and North American Terrans showing up seems to be much slower and the overall skill level seems to be further behind. Overall, there is an abundance of skillful Terrans from all over the world which is why I ask you, Teamliquid forum goers, who the king of Terran is in your opinion? 
MVP![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yPJbOshbmDo/TaAmiRnGcbI/AAAAAAAAAT0/22bT1qP_gyk/s1600/immvp_sc2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.sc2earnings.com/images/players/184.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://file.thisisgame.com/board/files/0/img/20110114112655_963938a7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kiz6e.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/thumb/3/37/Optimusg1.jpg/350px-Optimusg1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.ggbet.net/img/upload/prefix_1304242885Bombergslmpxp.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.gosugamers.net/general/images/news/scfou-gomtvs3-460.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/276518_171452802921103_6499359_n.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.arclitetank.com/grades/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/thorzain.png)
![[image loading]](http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/image/a44b1a512cbb1bd7m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/a/a8/Demuslimdreamhack.png/200px-Demuslimdreamhack.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/el5QR.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.askcorran.com/mkpstageloopcfuv.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/TheUltimateWeapon/flash12.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9CDLD.png)
