|
On July 26 2011 11:47 shockaslim wrote:
Just curious, and I know this won't happen now that PuMa is on EG, but what does PuMa have to say about all of this?
All I hear is management talk a bunch of PR shit, and I personally don't feel like any damage has been mitigated.
A better question is was any damage actually done by the PuMa recruitment itself? Of all these people screaming for blood and asking for ritualized disembowlment, how many of them disliked EG to begin with vs how many were fans?
|
For someone who said he didn't want to participate in a lot of press releases EGAlex seems to have to make quite a few of them.
This all doesn't really matter to me though don't really care that the transition from teams didn't work that smoothly though also I don't really see this as being a good move for Puma unless he is coming to the US to practice. The team aspect seems to be underrated in the West, and I don't think he will gain skill by playing KOR ladder + Foreign events. I still love the team Idra + Incontrol even the rest (despite the fact they don't have great tournament results) puma will only add to the team.
|
On July 26 2011 11:39 skp wrote:
Why would they talk to the manager first? EG has to know if Puma was even interested AT ALL.
EGAlex: Hi Mr. Lee, I would like to contract PuMa and invite him to our team!
Mr. Lee: No.
EGAlex: Okay =(.
That's probably how it went for the other korean team's management they spoke to. If it ain't working, gotta try something else ya know.
|
On July 26 2011 11:31 iamlafore wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:25 -_- wrote:
I've read the entire post. Forgive me if my missed something.
You keep saying that Puma told you the best first step would be for him to contact his coach. Wouldn't the logical first step for you have been to talk to Lee before approaching Puma and communicating EG's interest? Wouldn't have that really have been the proper first step? this.
EG probably could have done something like this: "I/We are interested in X player, and are approaching him with an offer. Just wanted to let you know so we can do a negotiation if he is interested." However, I don't fault EG for what they did in this situation anyway. I don't see anything wrong with probing the player for interest before talking to management. A good management-player relationship would have enough trust built up for the player to openly communicate with the management about other teams showing interest without the manager going berserk. If the player doesn't like something significant about his/her current team, maybe the player would prefer some privacy when it comes to team interest. Bottom line: I think most players are mature and intelligent enough to make their own decisions, and if the management of his/her current team has any confidence in the player-management relationship then the management shouldn't have to block "probes of interest" from reaching the player.
|
On July 26 2011 11:43 L3g3nd_ wrote:
i dont understand the EG hate, EG did everything right. props to you guys, keep doing what youre doing : ) GL at anaheim, ill be cheering for your entire roster
I don't hate EG, but I wanted to point out that it isn't always about doing everything right. It's also about attitude and execution. Think of it this way:
You are trying to do a forge fast expand, but you forget to leave your probe there in case you need to build the second gateway instead of waiting for the cybernetics core. Lings run in, but you manage to kill them with probes, and despite the deficit you win the game. This game, however, is casted, and the caster criticized your execution in the form of waiting for the cybernetics core instead of building and cancelling a second gateway. So what do you do? You get defensive and critcize the caster.
That was a poor metaphor, but the basic point is that though EG did nothing wrong, they could have done a lot of things better, and they seem to be constantly poor at taking criticism. They clearly need to practice the build (PR) more, because right now a better player (worse mistake) could easily take them out.
....I took this metaphor too far didn't I?
|
On July 26 2011 11:39 skp wrote:
Why would they talk to the manager first? EG has to know if Puma was even interested AT ALL.
EGAlex: Hi Mr. Lee, I would like to contract PuMa and invite him to our team!
Mr. Lee: No.
EGAlex: Okay =(.
EG: Hi Mr. Lee, we insterested in Puma and we understand that he's not currently under contract. But we also understand that TSL have spend the last year plus advancing Puma skill and career and for that we are willing to negotiate some business deal so TSL got something in return for the last 1 1/2 years investment
Mr Lee: Okay
|
On July 26 2011 11:42 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:41 Vei wrote:
Holy shit, so TSL / Coach Lee is straight up lying? That is _rotten_ and I need to hear his response. What did they lie about? Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:42 GoKu` wrote:
I never did understand what EG did wrong in the first place. Before going into specifics of the contract they told PuMa to go talk to his coach. Everyone talks about "Legitimizing eSports..." this is what goes on in NBA/NFL every season. And NBA/NFL have a multi-million worldwide audience and more money going around than it even makes sense to have. When Starcraft - being a fledgling competitive game it is now - gets there, then sure I'll live with businessmen and sports agents and directors and managers. Legitimizing and growing e-sports doesn't mean we have to take the worst part of professional sports and apply it right now - because it almost certainly won't grow too much if it develops into a predatory business environment.
Coach Lee says EG said PuMa approached them, which is untrue. EG says they approached PuMa. I wouldn't call it a lie though, I'd give Coach Lee the benefit of the doubt and just call it a misunderstanding at worst.
|
What's up with the condescension? Do you think we're all 14 year old nerds? Sorry I'm not buying what you're selling.
Also by reading this thread I see that the sarcastic trolls are out in force today...
|
That's a very cool and interesting story, bro.
Of course you were going to arrange a meeting with Mr. Lee! I'm sure you didn't just make this up after reading all the reactions from the community, because that'd be nothing like you. I also agree with you - this whole shitstorm is totally Mr. Lee's fault for lying to the press about what actually happened. I admire you for apologizing to that scum bag regardless of his disrespectful and deceitful behaviour. You are truly a wonderful person and someone to look up to.
I appreciate the fact that you repeat yourself a lot in this remarkable story of yours. If you hadn't, we idiots here at TL might have missed the fact that EG did nothing wrong and that TSL is to blame for blowing this thing out of proportions.  Talking to PuMa was only the *first step* in this whole ordeal, after all. I'm sure you wouldn't have went along with signing PuMa if Mr. Lee wasn't okay with it. Now, thanks to you, we know that he actually was okay with it, and can conclude that his statements to the press was simply to get attention. How silly of him!
God bless you, Alex, and god bless EG.
|
pro players will ask to join someone else team all the time. these things happen. people cant seem to accept it here for some reason. thats why contracts exist.
Look at sen hes wanting to join the tesl but hes under contract with fnatic so he has to wait til its over. im sure lots of pro teams in taiwan asked him to join.
|
On July 26 2011 11:47 OldManSenex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:35 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Lol remember the whole debate about Liquid playing in the EG masters cup? EG simply stated "Liquid was asked to participate and declined", and Tyler called them out on it, stating they misrepresented the situation and made no effort to present Liquid's side of the story. EG's response was that they shouldn't bear responsibility for presenting another side's argument, that was liquid's responsibility.
The situations were reversed now, and EG made a huge deal of it. Definitely speaks to the integrity of the organization. Except that that was a statement of a straightforward fact, that Liquid was invited and decided not to participate. Sure it would have been nice if EG had presented more information, but it can just as easily be argued that it would be overstepping their bounds to presume to speak for another team. This was a two-page long interview about how hurt and saddened the coach was by the fact that the evil western corporation had come along and lured his pure-hearted player to the dark side. When you're in such an obviously polarized discussion it's probably a good idea to see if the other side has anything to contribute. Still, I don't think it's a duty of a translator to look for both sides, it's just polite. With this press release I think we now have the opinions of both sides. EG has a new player, PuMa gets a paycheck, the coach gets his public and personal apology, and we hopefully get some amazing terran games. Win/win/kind of win/win.
That article was a few days ago. Suggesting that Milkis should have waited until today for Alex to finally make his statement is nothing short of incredible bias in EG's favor.
It was not his article, it was PlayXP's. Milkis just presented all of the information available, as soon as it was available. He didn't hold off on information to give specific people a better chance, that would be biased. He translated an article that was not his own writing, not his own opinions, not his own journalism, without any bias, and then Alex attacked him for it.
The fact that Alex decided to sit around for the past few days, busy typing up and then getting this giant PR load of bull proofread before finally posting it, rather than making an actual statement at the time the issue arose is his own fault.
|
PuMa went from a clan to a team, what is the problem? TSL should have contracted him. I think EG went above and beyond courtesy by waiting for PuMa to talk to Mr. Lee before signing. By all rights, they could have signed him when they first talked.
|
He posted this when PuMa signed because it would've been pointless for him to do so if PuMa didn't.
|
On July 26 2011 11:48 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:47 OldManSenex wrote:On July 26 2011 11:35 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Lol remember the whole debate about Liquid playing in the EG masters cup? EG simply stated "Liquid was asked to participate and declined", and Tyler called them out on it, stating they misrepresented the situation and made no effort to present Liquid's side of the story. EG's response was that they shouldn't bear responsibility for presenting another side's argument, that was liquid's responsibility.
The situations were reversed now, and EG made a huge deal of it. Definitely speaks to the integrity of the organization. Except that that was a statement of a straightforward fact, that Liquid was invited and decided not to participate. Sure it would have been nice if EG had presented more information, but it can just as easily be argued that it would be overstepping their bounds to presume to speak for another team. This was a two-page long interview about how hurt and saddened the coach was by the fact that the evil western corporation had come along and lured his pure-hearted player to the dark side. When you're in such an obviously polarized discussion it's probably a good idea to see if the other side has anything to contribute. Still, I don't think it's a duty of a translator to look for both sides, it's just polite. With this press release I think we now have the opinions of both sides. EG has a new player, PuMa gets a paycheck, the coach gets his public and personal apology, and we hopefully get some amazing terran games. Win/win/kind of win/win. EG didn't come out with a statement for several days. Milkis could not reasonably have given them that kind of time.
WoC was less than 20 hours later, though a full statement wasn't released until they signed Puma.
|
I don't see why people are hating on EG because TSL management was incompetent and didn't have players contracted. Without a contract TSL becomes irrelevant in the business decisions between Puma and EG. I commend EGs willingness to discuss post contract negotiations with TSL even though they are not obligated to.
|
i think ppl here on teamliquid are use to the controlling management of KESPA where Players have no rights. think its about time to move on guys
|
On July 26 2011 11:43 leandroqm wrote:
I'm sorry to say this, but I don't see a reason for all this shbang...
TSL didn't even had a contract, come on!
All these "THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE* A CONTRACT" replies are pathetic. Perhaps TSL did not yet have a sponsor to provide their players with salaries but thats not to say they weren't working their asses off trying to coach their players (incl. puma) in order to get better as a unit and then perhaps achieve great things. Mr. Lee might not have given Puma his money but he gave him how many hours/days/weeks of his time.
You don't think Puma owes some of his success to the environment provided by the team? Approaching Puma in the first place without speaking to his team first puts EG 100% in the ethical wrong here and anything that followed is desert. Sure it was legal, but it was a dick move and instead of this wall of text that I just went through EG should have written 1 line apologizing for approaching Puma before approaching his team.
They should stop trying to make it sound like they were so appropriate and respectful. I'm from Japan and I'm sure as much as this annoys me, it would be 50x worse if I was Korean.
|
On July 26 2011 11:54 Crisium wrote:
PuMa went from a clan to a team, what is the problem? TSL should have contracted him. I think EG went above and beyond courtesy by waiting for PuMa to talk to Mr. Lee before signing. By all rights, they could have signed him when they first talked.
but TSL raised Puma for a year and a half. Puma decides to go to EG after one offer from 1 tourney. EG even knew that he was uncontracted and took advantage of this. Puma and TSL was contracted on faith, Puma was raised by TSL and Coach Lee and became what he is because of TSL and the coach. and EG took that and smashed that trust into pieces by bribing Puma.
|
On July 26 2011 11:56 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:48 Shiori wrote:On July 26 2011 11:47 OldManSenex wrote:On July 26 2011 11:35 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Lol remember the whole debate about Liquid playing in the EG masters cup? EG simply stated "Liquid was asked to participate and declined", and Tyler called them out on it, stating they misrepresented the situation and made no effort to present Liquid's side of the story. EG's response was that they shouldn't bear responsibility for presenting another side's argument, that was liquid's responsibility.
The situations were reversed now, and EG made a huge deal of it. Definitely speaks to the integrity of the organization. Except that that was a statement of a straightforward fact, that Liquid was invited and decided not to participate. Sure it would have been nice if EG had presented more information, but it can just as easily be argued that it would be overstepping their bounds to presume to speak for another team. This was a two-page long interview about how hurt and saddened the coach was by the fact that the evil western corporation had come along and lured his pure-hearted player to the dark side. When you're in such an obviously polarized discussion it's probably a good idea to see if the other side has anything to contribute. Still, I don't think it's a duty of a translator to look for both sides, it's just polite. With this press release I think we now have the opinions of both sides. EG has a new player, PuMa gets a paycheck, the coach gets his public and personal apology, and we hopefully get some amazing terran games. Win/win/kind of win/win. EG didn't come out with a statement for several days. Milkis could not reasonably have given them that kind of time. WoC was less than 20 hours later, though a full statement wasn't released until they signed Puma.
Weapon of Choice happened because of the drama of the article. They went to Weapon of Choice because of necessity, not because they were planning to. Stop trying to find fault in Milkis for translating something in a timely manner.
|
It wasnt a big deal from the beginning. This has been blown out of proportion like no other thread I've seen on TL. Left and right teams are signing koreans but because its EG ppl feel like some drama somehow. I just wish Puma the best of luck and team EG
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
