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On July 26 2011 11:57 Fall.182 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:54 Crisium wrote:
PuMa went from a clan to a team, what is the problem? TSL should have contracted him. I think EG went above and beyond courtesy by waiting for PuMa to talk to Mr. Lee before signing. By all rights, they could have signed him when they first talked. but TSL raised Puma for a year and a half. Puma decides to go to EG after one offer from 1 tourney. EG even knew that he was uncontracted and took advantage of this. Puma and TSL was contracted on faith, Puma was raised by TSL and Coach Lee and became what he is because of TSL and the coach. and EG took that and smashed that trust into pieces by bribing Puma.
9 months != 18 months
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On July 26 2011 11:29 ZarMulix wrote:
We have the luxury of having a "sport" in which we decide what is acceptable or not. I think it would be deplorable to deny players rights in order to serve the interests of a team or corporation. Why would you want to mimic a system in which players have limited rights and abilities because of the legal implications instilled by large companies protecting their assets and stock value?
This is a really important point I think. People keep bringing up the way things are done in other professional sports, but the entire argument is based on the assumption that other professional sports are doing it right. I'm not saying anything about the correctness of how other sports approach the situation, only that that argument which everyone here is using is flawed.
Personally I think a lot of the EG hatred going on here just comes from the classic 'support the underdog mentality'. Just because there's a kid at school who's big and rich doesn't automatically mean he's an asshole/bully.
I can't say that it was wise of EG to wait so long before making a statement, but people seem to be ignoring the fact that time taken to make a statement is not directly related to truthfulness. They're not lying because they took too long to make a statement, and they're not lying because they're big and rich... If they are lying it's because the things they've said aren't true, but not a single person in this thread has pointed out anything incorrect about EG's statement here.
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Honestly couldn't careless about any teams outside of Liquid and SlayerS, but good luck to Puma, make that paper, hope the lack of a team doesn't effect his training.
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I'm sort of surprised about the amount of hate in this thread. Though maybe I just have a different perspective.
I work as a programmer for a large corporation (Amazon). I (and just about everyone else here) get contacted from time to time, directly by recruiters, from other major companies (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc). I have a contract with Amazon, and they pay me a fair salary (probably better than many pro-gamers). And no one thinks this is a problem... at all.
In fact, if you're a decent programmer who's established himself (either through a start up or a large company), there are tons of places that are looking for you. You regularly get emails from recruiters; and when you tell them 'no' they wait 6 months before asking again. It's common practice.
Now I know that's not how it works for major sports (or is it?) but it seems a little surprising that people would have such a harsh reaction to a team feeling out if a player was interested at all before beginning negotiations. Is there something I'm missing here? Do people just want a reason to hate EG?
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Thank you for making your post Alex. Ive been somewhat of a fan in the past, but I think this was a very good post on your part. I hope nothing but the best for EG, PuMa, and TSL as well. I think there is way too much drama with this whole thing, and I dont think you guys did anything wrong. I personally feel like korean managers and their "oh no cant lose our players to foreigner teams" is 100% bullshit. Players should be able to play wherever and for whoever they want (as long as no contracts are breached).
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Man, I love how the story is being mutated as time goes on. Soon enough, we're going to read that PuMa personally delivered Coach Lee's first born child. He was with TSL for 10 months.Can we cut the hyperbole and emotional excess?
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On July 26 2011 11:57 iamlafore wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:43 leandroqm wrote:
I'm sorry to say this, but I don't see a reason for all this shbang...
TSL didn't even had a contract, come on! All these "THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE* A CONTRACT" replies are pathetic. Perhaps TSL did not yet have a sponsor to provide their players with salaries but thats not to say they weren't working their asses off trying to coach their players (incl. puma) in order to get better as a unit and then perhaps achieve great things. Mr. Lee might not have given Puma his money but he gave him how many hours/days/weeks of his time. You don't think Puma owes some of his success to the environment provided by the team? Approaching Puma in the first place without speaking to his team first puts EG 100% in the ethical wrong here and anything that followed is desert. Sure it was legal, but it was a dick move and instead of this wall of text that I just went through EG should have written 1 line apologizing for approaching Puma before approaching his team. They should stop trying to make it sound like they were so appropriate and respectful. I'm from Japan and I'm sure as much as this annoys me, it would be 50x worse if I was Korean.
Just because TSL couldn't pay PuMa doesn't mean they couldn't put him under contract. They already had an exchange of service/goods going on, why not make it official?
TSL: We will feed you and provide you an environment to become the best SC2 player possible.
Puma: I will train hard and help my teammates train. I will represent TSL around the world in the best manner possible.
I don't think Puma owed TSL anything. At best, the "contract" they had going was of indeterminate duration. TSL could in theory stop providing housing/food to PuMa at any time for any reason. PuMa could stop playing for them at any time for any reason.
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Thanks Alex. I listened to you on Weapon of Choice and I'm glad you took the time to write this out, it was a very professional move. However, you should not have had to write it out. This community is apparently very good at overreacting before the full story is out and they always assume that they know what is going on behind the scenes. One of the many faults of this community, but hey we all still love it.
I was and still am a big EG fan. Looking forward to see what PuMa can bring the team.
:D
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On July 26 2011 11:43 Fall.182 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:39 skp wrote:
Why would they talk to the manager first? EG has to know if Puma was even interested AT ALL.
EGAlex: Hi Mr. Lee, I would like to contract PuMa and invite him to our team!
Mr. Lee: No.
EGAlex: Okay =(.
then after they found out that Puma was interested then what? they should've contacted TSL, but did they? no. which is why this whole thing is coming out as shady and EG is at fault
Read the OP man, it was always the plan to contact the manager.
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On July 26 2011 12:00 Dr.Sin wrote:
Man, I love how the story is being mutated as time goes on. Soon enough, we're going to read that PuMa personally delivered Coach Lee's first born child. He was with TSL for 10 months.Can we cut the hyperbole and emotional excess?
I dunno about you but if you live, eat and sleep with the same people for 10 months you gain some type of emotional attachment to them lol
I still haven't forgiven EG for this or the Milkis thing.
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On July 26 2011 12:00 tzenes wrote:
I'm sort of surprised about the amount of hate in this thread. Though maybe I just have a different perspective.
I work as a programmer for a large corporation (Amazon). I (and just about everyone else here) get contacted from time to time, directly by recruiters, from other major companies (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc). I have a contract with Amazon, and they pay me a fair salary (probably better than many pro-gamers). And no one thinks this is a problem... at all.
In fact, if you're a decent programmer who's established himself (either through a start up or a large company), there are tons of places that are looking for you. You regularly get emails from recruiters; and when you tell them 'no' they wait 6 months before asking again. It's common practice.
Now I know that's not how it works for major sports (or is it?) but it seems a little surprising that people would have such a harsh reaction to a team feeling out if a player was interested at all before beginning negotiations. Is there something I'm missing here? Do people just want a reason to hate EG?
There is also the personal attack on Milkis.I am still waiting for that public apology from EG to Milkis.
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EG is full of so much drama its stupid
the things with incontrol Idra this and other stuff is really stupid, its really hard to like EG
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On July 26 2011 11:57 Fall.182 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:54 Crisium wrote:
PuMa went from a clan to a team, what is the problem? TSL should have contracted him. I think EG went above and beyond courtesy by waiting for PuMa to talk to Mr. Lee before signing. By all rights, they could have signed him when they first talked. but TSL raised Puma for a year and a half. Puma decides to go to EG after one offer from 1 tourney. EG even knew that he was uncontracted and took advantage of this. Puma and TSL was contracted on faith, Puma was raised by TSL and Coach Lee and became what he is because of TSL and the coach. and EG took that and smashed that trust into pieces by bribing Puma.
THIS.
sounds a lot like when a kid goes to college. and their parents love them so much they cant let em leave. oh man mr.lee is too caring and mother-like. but this is going to another parent. when u get betrayed, backstab the crap out of you.
what lee did to PUMA, took him to PR and owned the crap out of him without sayign a word.
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On July 26 2011 09:10 Hawker wrote:
This could of been avoided if you just would of said something on twitter right away when the news broke.
no it couldnt. the way the whole SC community works is, whoever said their side of the story first gets all the support, while the other side gets crapped on.
very rarely has the above said statement been false, and i mean VERY rarely.
another problem is that once you mess up in this community, you get no second chance
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On July 26 2011 12:03 skp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:43 Fall.182 wrote:On July 26 2011 11:39 skp wrote:
Why would they talk to the manager first? EG has to know if Puma was even interested AT ALL.
EGAlex: Hi Mr. Lee, I would like to contract PuMa and invite him to our team!
Mr. Lee: No.
EGAlex: Okay =(.
then after they found out that Puma was interested then what? they should've contacted TSL, but did they? no. which is why this whole thing is coming out as shady and EG is at fault Read the OP man, it was always the plan to contact the manager.
Yet they still havn't.
I can say whatever I want but after weeks of negotiation with Puma, Puma's decision and now that Puma's signed they still havn't spoken to Lee directly.
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Actually he said many words, thus this farce.
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On July 26 2011 12:05 Mcleod21 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 09:10 Hawker wrote:
This could of been avoided if you just would of said something on twitter right away when the news broke. no it couldnt. the way the whole SC community works is, whoever said their side of the story first gets all the support, while the other side gets crapped on. very rarely has the above said statement been false, and i mean VERY rarely. another problem is that once you mess up in this community, you get no second chance
Naniwa would beg to differ....
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On July 26 2011 12:00 Dr.Sin wrote:
Man, I love how the story is being mutated as time goes on. Soon enough, we're going to read that PuMa personally delivered Coach Lee's first born child. He was with TSL for 10 months.Can we cut the hyperbole and emotional excess?
But...but...It's best for PuMa if he stays a poor but loyal Korean, who eats ramen for every meal. Keep those evil money-grubbing westerners away and their ideas of having a sustainable career in esports!
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[QUOTE]On July 26 2011 12:04 Lokian wrote:
[QUOTE]On July 26 2011 11:57 Fall.182 wrote:
[QUOTE]On July 26 2011 11:54 Crisium wrote:
PuMa went from a clan to a team, what is the problem? TSL should have contracted him. I think EG went above and beyond courtesy by waiting for PuMa to talk to Mr. Lee before signing. By all rights, they could have signed him when they first talked.[/QUOTE]
but TSL raised Puma for a year and a half. Puma decides to go to EG after one offer from 1 tourney. EG even knew that he was uncontracted and took advantage of this. Puma and TSL was contracted on faith, Puma was raised by TSL and Coach Lee and became what he is because of TSL and the coach. and EG took that and smashed that trust into pieces by bribing Puma.[/QUOTE]
You could also say that TSL had a year and a half to sign him to a contract. I really like how people are saying TSL raised him, like they found him as a baby in front of their door in a basket, raised him to be some sort of SC2 prodigy.
Anyways grats to EG.
And about the whole Milkis thing, planned from the start I say
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EPT
