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On July 22 2011 09:10 dacthehork wrote:
Heres the cliffnotes
EG hasn't done a TSL style training house and has always "planned" to for the last year
EG buys out a player at NASL (after fishing around for any good players, even SEN etc)
EG doesn't want to train up talent, and instead just bought TSL's work
Now every korean will have a strict contract before travelling outside Korea
Umm... they're doing a team house.
They didn't buyout anyone, they approached good players, which is what you do.
They've setup a house for their entire team.
The last point will happen though, lol.
Otherwise, you completely can't listen to what's happened.
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"self contained structure" i may never want to hear these 3 words together again after this interview.
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On July 22 2011 09:07 dsousa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:04 echO [W] wrote:
I get the feeling that it's simply a cultural disagreement.
Lee is happy for Puma, like a proud father of his son for doing so well that he got an offer from EG.
However, he's unhappy in the fact that say this was a marriage, the father (Lee in this case) would have liked it if the boyfriend (EG) asked him (Lee) for his blessing to proceed in marrying his daughter (Puma). Yes, but Lee should be a man and not put this drama on Puma, despite his feelings being hurt.
According to Milkis, or from what I've heard, in terms of drama, originally, Lee noticed Puma wasn't acting right, and then he heard of the deal.
I think he has the right to tell his side, and what he feels after essentially having his star playing talked to without him being in the loop.
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On July 22 2011 09:13 Grimsong wrote:
This is a huge culture clash, wow. Seems like Korea wants to close its doors tight at this point and keep these foreigners out of their BW system which was wildly successful for entertainment and doesn't seem flawed to their culture.
Interesting about how expensive buyouts are so they dodged it.
Well they sure as hell wont have players not on contract soon.
Pretty much lockdown is coming thanks to EG stealing out a player. They seem open to internationals (GSL gom house housing foreign players), TL-OGS, FXO, SK etc. Its just the shady businessmen like EG that feel free to poach players.
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On July 22 2011 09:14 meep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Eh, I've never really liked people who are really smooth talkers and use that to their advantage. I'm definitely not warming up to Alex at all, here. Usually, being a smooth talker just lets you make yourself appear more "right" than you truly are to the ears of an audience, and it always feels pretty dirty to me. Usually I like smooth talkers, but I'm getting a "vibe" from Alex that he IS using it negatively (to me) as well. Sigh 
Yeah. I mean, I guess I wasn't clear enough: We all have our own moral compasses, and I, like most people, dislike smooth talkers that use their abilities to make positions that go against our own personal moral compasses seem more "right". So yeah, I agree with you totally.
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EG essentially has just claimed that Korean teams are protectonist and impede foreign involvement.
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Is the audience biased or going into this with predisposed beliefs, or is something actually offputting about Alex Garfield's comments? I can't tell.
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On July 22 2011 09:10 dacthehork wrote:
Heres the cliffnotes
EG hasn't done a TSL style training house and has always "planned" to for the last year
EG buys out a player at NASL (after fishing around for any good players, even SEN etc)
EG doesn't want to train up talent, and instead just bought TSL's work
Now every korean will have a strict contract before travelling outside Korea
Are you even watching the show? Or are you just staring at a wall imagining things? Alex clearly said Puma hasn't signed yet. They were there looking for a korean player because they knew they could financially afford to actually provide them a salary (something that is quite rare in korea). This has nothing to do with training up talent.
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All of you are ridiculous. If EG was really trying to be underhanded, they would have made Puma sign already. They could have told him to not talk to the coach at all. They could have prevented this information from reaching the press. They could have done ANY NUMBER of things to keep this a secret until some kind of binding legal arrangement. In fact, if I were a team manager and wanted to sneak a player away, I would be slamming EG for being total fucking idiots about it.
Unpaid player with no contract now has opportunity to get paid for their passion? Victory for starcraft2. More money from outside of korea coming into the scene? Victory for starcraft2.
The only sad thing to me is if the coach was using money from his own pocket to keep this player in the team house. But it is the coach's fault for not enforcing a contract, like EVERY OTHER sport or league of significance. That mistake will not be made again. My biggest fear is that korean teams are now going to their players and saying: "here is a shitty contract where the korean league and the korean team have all the power, take it or never play sc for a korean team". But that is just protectionist bullshit.
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United States17042 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:08 spybreak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:05 MrSexington wrote:On July 22 2011 08:21 MrSexington wrote:They're discussing this with DJwheat right now btw on Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/Tune in. Here's the cliff notes: - The news is fairly rushed: As of right now, Puma is NOT a member of Team EG.
- I apologize for any disrespect towards Mr. Lee.
- What we did was not only legally correct, but also morally and ethically correct.
- One of the reasons Puma is NOT a member yet because we wanted to give him the chance to speak to his team first.
- EG approached Puma first.
- Thinks a lot of confusion is due to translation in words such as "approached."
- "We're looking to support some Korean players, are you interested."
- Puma isn't contracted with TSL.
- The topic of his coach (Mr. Lee) came up multiple times. We didn't want to offend the SC community.
- EG has a history of buyouts, each accompanied with mutual press releases with other teams.
- We've approached at least 3 other Korean players/teams.
- It was mutually agreed between the player and us that he would talk to his coach.
- The conversation between Puma and coach Lee went really well and was distraught after hearing the reactions to the news last night.
- We were never going to do this if it wasn't okay with the other team. (And it sounded like everything was good.)
- Instead of leaving it up to Puma to talk to the team, EG should have contacted TSL directly.
- Coach Lee should not have made a public statement in anger. (It sounds like he made the statement in anger.)
- Both EG and coach Lee are responsible for the situation, causing a lot of distress for the player, and it's not 50/50.
- SC2 in Korea is kind of struggling, despite what it may look like. And isn't this just an example of a player getting something outside Korea that he wasn't getting inside Korea?
- "Contracting the player is fixing the wrong problem."
- Korean teams are used to dealing with their players in a very self-contained way, and that's just not going to work in SC2 [because of how big SC2 is becoming in the foreign scene].
- "I don't think what we did was underhanded at all."
- If we're not getting to a point where an independent brand, like mine,... it's not a system that works globally.
*break time for Q&A to come* Sweet thanks
thanks so much i'm still at work so this is invaluable
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United States23455 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:14 nekuodah wrote:
you cant just support 1/2/3 top korean players, it just wont work long term as they will fall behind the actual established teams due to lack of practice partners, his idea of a model just does not work imo.
This.
The infrastructure in Korea >>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure in North America/Europe. You can't just buy Korean players and expect them to get better if you take them out of their Korean progaming houses and move them to America/Europe with a worse training server and worse practice partners/teammates.
Also EG, hopefully, has a full-time translator or teach the team Korean. FXO has two guys who know Korean and they're helping Oz learn English.
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On July 22 2011 09:14 sekritzzz wrote:
I hate how Alex is playing the "I will develop e-sports" card. He keeps going back to that point of developing e-sports rather than talking about the issue at hand.
I already see 90% of the forum goers siding with him when they heard that lol.
E-sports is such a meaningless buzzword in Tl
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wtf are they talking about? are they trolling us?
i have never seen a more meaningless discussion ever
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On July 22 2011 09:16 hazelynut wrote:
Is the audience biased or going into this with predisposed beliefs, or is something actually offputting about Alex Garfield's comments? I can't tell.
It's the spin AG is basically spinning the argument in a million different ways to change the topic from what happened.
aka trying to say its about mixing korea/international scene.
Hes re-framing the debate from poaching a player to internationalizing the scene.
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On July 22 2011 09:15 marvin. wrote:
Alex arguing that buying out Koreans is for the greater growth of esports. Personally I think that if a bit more work / money / time was put into the actual FOREIGNER players it would be better for esports.
They put up an EG house... they are working on the Foreign development as well.....
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Korea gaining steam to make KespA2.0
Kinda backed off of that opinion, scared to commit to such a strong stance perhaps. Seems like Korea just wants to get the wheels moving on Kespa and use this as why.
I think the issue is that Korea doesn't have the coverage and steam that it is used to from BW. Period.
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On July 22 2011 09:13 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:12 Taf the Ghost wrote:
Transfer fees about players. I think someone tried to get NesTea or MC ^_^ To get either of those guys, EG would probably have to win the lottery.
Twice.
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why does Alex always come back to to this growth of ESPORTS thing,
it has nothing to do with why the korean coach is pissed. He's only pissed that EG didn't talk to the team.
Yes, that's a dumb thing to be pissed about when compared to that whole globalization of ESPORTS, but it's still the thing that should be focused on
once again, Rain going to FnaticMSI is the complete counter arguement to what Alex is saying
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United States23455 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:15 Dr.Sin wrote:
EG essentially has just claimed that Korean teams are protectonist and impede foreign involvement.
Most of the international teams have zero infrastructure. No team houses. No coaches. EG and some other teams are trying to change that, but it's gonna take a long time for the world to catch up to Korea.
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By all accounts, Puma didn't decide anything until after he'd returned to Korea. According to the TSL interview (with the semi-translation), he spent several days still trying to make a choice.
AG talked to Puma about a possible contract, and Puma left them with no clear decision on his part.
I still fail to see how this falls on EG...at best, you're saying that they should have contacted TSL (and everything other Korean team at NASL) and said "We're going to hand out cards to your players".
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EPT
