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On July 17 2011 00:22 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 23:54 holyvenom wrote:
I watch American sports for a few hours every day, then I watch e-sports for a few hours at night. You guys will be craving current Tastosis once SC2 goes mainstream, because most commentary on TV is terribly boring and oftentimes outright wrong. (I rely on Twitter for my commentary - I turn off the sound on most games.) It's incredibly refreshing to hear them be so frank and really show their friendship.
Above isn't really targeted at Boss - I think bad jokes are only bad once they're finished and the professionalism argument is also dead weight. The main concern of most seems to be that SC2 won't be popular in the mainstream because of Tastosis's quirks, and I think it might be popular because of it. Most sports fans hate their commentators, trust me. I feel incredibly lucky with the GSL. Sweeping generalization followed by a trust me? Please tell me you did not just do that. I would like to know which sports casters (other than Joe Buck) you speak of. I guess the sports teams I follow should consider themselves lucky. Being original isn't easy. Especially when it comes to Comedy. There is nothing original about what Dan and Nick do. Most of the jokes they dish out are references to cult flicks. If that style of humor speaks to you so be it. I'm not the only one who thinks some of their jokes are bad. Dan and Nick even readily admit to some of their bad jokes. At least they're honest about it. In strong doses I find it over-excessive. The real snag is when other commentators try to copy their style. It doesn't work for everybody.
I can't speak for the NBA, but I can speak with some authority on the MLB and NHL. For baseball, most commentators are rooted in their old ways and don't acknowledge a lot of the burgeoning movements (specifically, sabermetrics) within the baseball community. (Some are terrible for other reasons, like Dibble was, but that's rarer.) Buck is boring, but McCarver and Morgan (if we're talking national guys) are just ignorant. I follow a bunch of beat writers and fans for every team and they consistently mock their regional commentators as well. I guess that's the point - they add their own commentary. Maybe a better generalization would've been that people on Twitter dislike their commentators.
In the NHL, the problems are more rooted in homerism, something Tastosis gets well-deserved criticism for. I know which teams I watch with mute on, including my own. Either way, this isn't the point - commentators shouldn't be lumped into one category. There are all shapes and sizes depending on the medium and market.
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I don't know if it's because I watch the GSL live casts at 5am and I'm half asleep...but I laugh like a maniac most the time. Comedy is a major contributing factor to my addiction to watching Starcraft casts and analysis (Day9's shows also send me into fits of laughter that sometimes rival even his own).
I can see why it would be important to tighten up on the professionalism if you are trying to draw in either non-gamer spectators or non-gamer money...but I'm a gamer, and I'm totally okay with games being cast by gamers, for gamers.
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pics of tranny t-gun plzzzz
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Sounds like not a huge fan of Tastosis casting style.
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Nice write up, seems like it's been a great adventure.
I agree to some extent with the casting. Tastosis are great, they're the iconic Sc2 Casters, and banter between commentators/casters happens in all professional sports, so I disagree with it being unprofessional, but it's just a bit too much at times...sometimes it takes them 5-10 minutes into a game for them to actually talk about starcraft, and I'm sitting there waiting for artosis to drop some of that knowledge! But I wouldn't want them to change much though, as they're great 
Btw, boss, are you going to allow Qxc to stream again once the team league is finished? I really miss his stream 
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I think this is one of th better posts on TL and I like how despite you are the head of your team, you don't go and make some big deal of your post like the Fnatic guys (Xeris, and the other guy who wrote those articles dissing Korea out of complete ignorance).
I'm not in complete agreement though with your viewpoint on casting though FXOBoss, given that NBA casters often make some pretty horrid jokes too haha, it comes with the business, but to each their own opinion. I think if only 10% of their content is "bad", it's already a pretty good rate of success compared to some sports commentators that I've watched on TV.
I like the insight you provided on Korea and how the players are doing. Definitely is a tough run to get through Code A and I hope it provides more insight to people who think Code A is some second rate tournament that top European stars "should be able to crush". Also, I like how you touch lightly on how practicing the amount that Koreans do really isn't that easy at all. It really shows some of the ignorant foreigners on this forum that what the Korean progamers do in Korea really isn't a walk in the park.
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thanks for the bloggity post.! ;D
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If qxc is going back to university he will probably skill drop and then have to catch up all over again... But it's his decision, so GL to him.
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On July 15 2011 16:42 RedDeckWins wrote:
I personally enjoy some of the jokes that Tastosis make, but also realize that 90% of the general population wouldn't get them. Compare this to ESPN, anyone can watch a game on ESPN and the commentators do not make "in" jokes. For E-Sports to become mainstream I think those sort of jokes need to be phased out.
Regarding caster criticism, I think it is needed to make the commentary interesting, but the tone of it needs to be changed a bit. Mistakes are mistakes and they should be pointed out, but the tone of the criticism could be less critical and more didactic.
It's comments like these that make me never want ESPORTS to become close to mainstream.
Tastosis are hilarious and I've never had any trouble enjoying the games with their balance between jokes and game insight.
Starcraft isn't like other sports and other sports shouldn't be an instant comparison.
Tasteless and Artosis are very professional and very funny. And I and many others will tune in whenever they cast. If that holds ESPORTS back from becoming mainstream, I really couldn't care less. And i don't care if that sounds selfish.
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On July 15 2011 20:31 thepeonwhocould wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 16:27 Devolved wrote:On July 15 2011 16:17 IcedBacon wrote:Thirdly English casting.
Although 90% of the time the english cast is done well, there are a bunch of things that need to change. The cast needs to be more scheduled and less random. The crappy jokes need to stop (not the good ones, just the crappy ones). Heres a pointer, if you are laughing mid joke at your own joke, its probably not funny. It also needs to bring more insight into the game, more facts more figures and probably a 3rd person. ...Talk to Wolf and Unstable? :p JK. Anyways, Tastosis is the most loved commentary duo by the foreigners, nothing needs to change. Sure there's some bad jokes and awkard moments but part of a caster's job is to be able to fill in time with random banter. It happens at MLG (even moreso), Dreamhack, IEM, whatever. Not really something to complain about. With that aside, nice writeup and glad everyone enjoys/enjoyed it there. The main problem I have with the English casting is how they talk down to the players. Most casters are guilty of this, but especially Wolf, and most of the time he's not even strategically correct. I can hardly remember a game where he doesn't say how bad a certain player was when he's missing a drop in the main or just doesn't understand exactly what it is the player is doing. I don't mind a player being criticized when he is making blatant mistakes, but I do mind a player being criticized for the simple fact that he lost a battle, or is falling behind in the game when they are competing against some of the best players in the world. I totally agree. Casters should focus on the positive aspects of people's play and recognize that when someone makes a "blunder" it is because they're 300 apm was dedicated to another location of the map. I hate when a player looses a banshee and the caster is like "OMG he didn't micro it correctly!". The reason he lost the banshee was because he was back at his base macroing. Sometimes you just have to macro and hope that your unit doesnt die. Yes if someone makes a huge strategical or micro error you can mention it, but then get on with the cast. I remember watching a recent cast by Tastosis where they were constantly pointing out the mistakes of both players. "Oh he should not be attacking here. He should wait to max first. The zergs macro is terrible! (even though he only had 100minerals/100 gas stockpiled??). It gets really annoying and makes the cast depressing. Overall casters just don't seem to recognize that these pro players are playing at ridiculous speeds, sometimes they don't have time to think out some awesome strategy, or realise that they don't have enough units to attack. It's easy to criticise a players strategy when you are sitting there spectating, with maphacks, and you don't have to worry about keeping up your 300 apm. SC2 is impossible to play perfectly and I think casters shouldn't be so harsh on the players, especially players who are Code S level...
No. When someone makes a mistake they SHOULD be pointing it out. When someone is floating 5k/2k at 180 food you shouldn't be talking about how great they're playing when they're playing terribly.
Tasteless and Artosis both played BW, they know that mistakes happen because you're focused on something else usually, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a mistake.
I also have to disagree with just about everything said about the casting, making the fans happy is what makes people buy season tickets which is what drives E-sports. Having people enjoy the game is more important than how "professional" outsiders perceive the casting as.
With that being said, it's really cool to see fxo really trying to improve. I wasn't really an FXO fan before, but I'll definitely be rooting for them in future tournaments.
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Its funny how no matter how many times you say something, people don't pay attention.
I didn't say anywhere that I want the casting style to change. I said the crappy jokes need to stop. 90% good 10% bad...
If thats me calling tasteless and artosis crap, then someone please get a gun and shoot me.
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On July 17 2011 15:37 FXOpen wrote:
I didn't say anywhere that I want the casting style to change. I said the crappy jokes need to stop. 90% good 10% bad...
Getting rid of the "crappy jokes" is a change.
Why should you be the ultimate on what jokes are crappy and which are not. Let the numbers speak for themselves. Maybe your opinion of what is crappy is skewed?
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Maybe it is....Who knows. But I don't look at today, I look for tomorrow. And thats what I base my opinion on, also feedback from potential sponsors is what I am expressing. Which brings it into the "fact" page.
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Wonderful blog, really enjoyed it. Living the dream!
Sooo jealous. I'd murder countless kittens and puppies to be in in FXO's shoes sometimes. 
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Obviously Tasteless and Artosis are directing towards their audience with all the jokes (hilarious or not).
I know if they wanted to be completely, 100% professional that they would have no problem doing so. But they know that would also not be as entertaining for us. I saw a picture of the casting setup once that had a paper written on it that said "Talk about things other than the game" on it. Don't know if it was written by GOM or Tastosis themselves.
Also, super jealous of the entirety of FXO.
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On July 17 2011 06:34 holyvenom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 00:22 StarStruck wrote:On July 16 2011 23:54 holyvenom wrote:
I watch American sports for a few hours every day, then I watch e-sports for a few hours at night. You guys will be craving current Tastosis once SC2 goes mainstream, because most commentary on TV is terribly boring and oftentimes outright wrong. (I rely on Twitter for my commentary - I turn off the sound on most games.) It's incredibly refreshing to hear them be so frank and really show their friendship.
Above isn't really targeted at Boss - I think bad jokes are only bad once they're finished and the professionalism argument is also dead weight. The main concern of most seems to be that SC2 won't be popular in the mainstream because of Tastosis's quirks, and I think it might be popular because of it. Most sports fans hate their commentators, trust me. I feel incredibly lucky with the GSL. Sweeping generalization followed by a trust me? Please tell me you did not just do that. I would like to know which sports casters (other than Joe Buck) you speak of. I guess the sports teams I follow should consider themselves lucky. Being original isn't easy. Especially when it comes to Comedy. There is nothing original about what Dan and Nick do. Most of the jokes they dish out are references to cult flicks. If that style of humor speaks to you so be it. I'm not the only one who thinks some of their jokes are bad. Dan and Nick even readily admit to some of their bad jokes. At least they're honest about it. In strong doses I find it over-excessive. The real snag is when other commentators try to copy their style. It doesn't work for everybody. I can't speak for the NBA, but I can speak with some authority on the MLB and NHL. For baseball, most commentators are rooted in their old ways and don't acknowledge a lot of the burgeoning movements (specifically, sabermetrics) within the baseball community. (Some are terrible for other reasons, like Dibble was, but that's rarer.) Buck is boring, but McCarver and Morgan (if we're talking national guys) are just ignorant. I follow a bunch of beat writers and fans for every team and they consistently mock their regional commentators as well. I guess that's the point - they add their own commentary. Maybe a better generalization would've been that people on Twitter dislike their commentators. In the NHL, the problems are more rooted in homerism, something Tastosis gets well-deserved criticism for. I know which teams I watch with mute on, including my own. Either way, this isn't the point - commentators shouldn't be lumped into one category. There are all shapes and sizes depending on the medium and market.
So the reasons you dislike those commentators aren't for their style, but rather things such as knowledge or homerism, which are not necessarily inherent to professional sports style casting (you even mentioned Tastosis is guilty of the latter.)
I do love Tastosis, but they have a rare synergy that makes what they do work. If you were to talk about every other foreign caster, I can't say the same. The Halo casters at MLG are actually fairly decent and try to go for the sports style casting (though I'm not a fan of the game.) They look like they have proper hygiene, are well dressed and professional looking.
Whenever a friend or roommate comes into my room and an SC2 cast is on, I get flat out embarrassed. Here we are trying to move gaming out of the 'mom's basement' stereotype, but casters are wearing a blazer and a t-shirt under it. So I guess it's pick and choose whether you want mainstream appeal or not, but you can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you're Tastosis.)
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Thanks for the insight, really informative post.
Platinum Korean = High Master NA ? Really ?
That sounds quite impressive, and says a lot about the average skill level down there...
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My wife doesn't know much about Starcraft, but she loves listening to Tasteless and Artosis comedy... and loves the back stories and features done on the players as well (keep them coming GOM!).
I don't know how much your comment was refering to Tastosis, I think the bigger problem is the other casters trying too hard to be like them instead of finding their own thing.. and not pulling it off. It's just a fact, that some people can pull off certain jokes, while others can't.
Tastosis comedy has often saved the production a lot of times where the Starcraft side of things is really painful to watch.
I don't want it to change... or get too serious, I like it being fun to watch and about more than just Starcraft all the time.
Also.. another thing.. I love the flame guns... maybe they could put like a dedicated path area (down the middle?) where the players are meant to walk.. and then turn left or right at the end to goto the booths.. rather than walk right on top of them.. saw one get knocked over in one of the matches... heh. I definately don't want to see them go though.. as it adds to the whole production and excitement.
Anyways... hope FXO continues to improve, good luck with everything and glad overall the experience was good for you and the players!
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I don't agree entirely with your point about Tastosis casting.
Take for example the NBA. Chick Hearn, deceased Lakers play by play caster, is the most famous U.S. sports caster in history. He literally coined every catchphrase that you see today. You can check his wiki page to see them all (there's literally hundreds) and many of them are extremely silly. Some can also be interpreted as juvenile or unprofessional. Yet this worked for the LA Lakers one of the top five sports franchises in the entire world and was accepted by the public.
So joking can work and it obviously is working for Tastosis as the community would attest. But I definitely agree with you Boss about the sexual variety and intentionally awkward performance variety of jokes that they do. You're right that they can cut those out.
Joe Rogan is extremely foul-mouthed in his coverage of UFC and those guys are cranking out sponsor dollars faster than any other sport, so maybe you and I are wrong on this issue. Who really knows?
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The problem with the flame guns is that they seem to be low quality ones... They kind of just explode out fire, instead of having a controlled flame. Its not exactly the safest. There is already a path way, but if a flame goes a little bit bigger, then gg.. face burn.
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EPT
