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On July 16 2011 05:42 Dental Floss wrote:
These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
thats not hypocrisy. it would be hypocritical if people did it in a completely unrelated topic without knowing about incontrols interview. they are merely pointing out his hypocrisy.
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On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
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I swear to god, players like IdrA and Incontrol don't even use their skill to make it big in the SC2 community anymore. Its a pissing contest to piss off the most people and create the most drama between them, and unfortunately you saps eat it up and give them their (undeserved) place in the community.
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On July 16 2011 05:42 Dental Floss wrote:
These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
Most people aren't flaming incontrol for what he said. I'm a fan of incontrol, but saying that Total biscuit is here to "just make money" is unfair. How does inc know TB's intentions? He doesn't.
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On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
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That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So according to you Incontrol can say whatever he wants and nobody is allowed to be critical of it because it is his honest opinion?
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On July 16 2011 05:51 Sandro wrote:
I swear to god, players like IdrA and Incontrol don't even use their skill to make it big in the SC2 community anymore. Its a pissing contest to piss off the most people and create the most drama between them, and unfortunately you saps eat it up and give them their (undeserved) place in the community.
You sound equally as upset as you sound ignorant, bravo good sir.
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On July 16 2011 05:42 Dental Floss wrote:
These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
No one's criticizing him for being critical, he's being criticized because his words were short sighted and hypocritical. He can be honest about how he feels, and I can honestly tell him I think it's stupid.
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On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied?
That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
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''I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well. ''
This reaction kinda makes Incontrol look like a hypocrite to me.
First off, TotalBiscuit has done alot for the community already, he's even organised a tourny which I haven't seen Incontrol do yet. Second, Incontrol asks money for coaching... So, if you are not in it for the money Incontrol, why do you ask money for it? Third, do you really think that Lindsey would have interviewed for NASL if she didn't get paid to do so? I assume she's been paid atleast 1k+ for interviewing that weekend, and this is a total random guess looking at the money NASL gave as prize.
I don't think it's fair for Incontrol to judge TotalBiscuit like that, TotalBiscuit has done alot of things with games besides SC2, he has an awesome channel with alot of World of Warcraft video's for example, and I don't really see WoW as another sport? It's a videogame, just like SC2, how can it be another sport? I've lost a slight bit respect for Incontrol with his attack on TotalBiscuit, especially since his reaction comes over towards me as being a hypocrite, aswell as prizing Lindsey into heaven because she probably is a friend of Anna/Incontrol.
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On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
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On July 16 2011 06:09 Qurid wrote:
''I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well. ''
This reaction kinda makes Incontrol look like a hypocrite to me.
First off, TotalBiscuit has done alot for the community already, he's even organised a tourny which I haven't seen Incontrol do yet. Second, Incontrol asks money for coaching... So, if you are not in it for the money Incontrol, why do you ask money for it? Third, do you really think that Lindsey would have interviewed for NASL if she didn't get paid to do so? I assume she's been paid atleast 1k+ for interviewing that weekend, and this is a total random guess looking at the money NASL gave as prize.
I don't think it's fair for Incontrol to judge TotalBiscuit like that, TotalBiscuit has done alot of things with games besides SC2, he has an awesome channel with alot of World of Warcraft video's for example, and I don't really see WoW as another sport? It's a videogame, just like SC2, how can it be another sport? I've lost a slight bit respect for Incontrol with his attack on TotalBiscuit, especially since his reaction comes over towards me as being a hypocrite, aswell as prizing Lindsey into heaven because she probably is a friend of Anna/Incontrol.
So you're saying that Incontrol says nicer things about people he is friends with...then someone he might not be friends with. Hmmm, what a strange concept... I can see why this would make you angry.
Also you think it is unfair for incontrl - a major SC2 personality to be critical of TB - a major SC2 personality. However, it *is fair* for you - not anyone in particular - to be critical of incontrol. I see how this also makes sense.
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On July 16 2011 06:16 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else. Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better. Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
Benefit of the doubt? ok
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
hmmm, something is wrong here.
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On July 16 2011 06:16 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else. Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better. Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
No-one is saying that it isn't tough to give an interview. It is just that this isn't a one-off occurrence, he has done it several times before, and in different, more casual situations.
EDIT: He said that it isn't that he doesn't like TB. It's that the broadside was uncalled for in the situation, begging professionally, and his reason for not liking TB is wrong as well.
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On July 16 2011 06:24 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 06:16 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else. Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better. Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said. Benefit of the doubt? ok Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. hmmm, something is wrong here.
Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money.
My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??)
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On July 16 2011 06:26 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 06:24 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 06:16 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else. Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better. Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said. Benefit of the doubt? ok On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. hmmm, something is wrong here. Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money. My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??)
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
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Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
This horse has been beaten to death in this thread. Obviously Dental Floss either didn't read it, or would defend Incontrol no matter what he said, it is pointless to argue with him.
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Someone who makes a good living off the back of sc2 should not be taking a pop at others that do the same. If Incontrol was a top tier pro, and TB was casting his replays Husky style then I might understand it, but he isnt and he isnt.
TB's contribution to the game is extremely committed and considered, he spends vast swathes of his time casting tournaments, and not just big and famous ones. He does his dues, not just leaping in as a guest for the big things.
He as every much as right to earn money from the game as anyone else, and his motives are no less pure than any pro player.
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On July 16 2011 06:31 Olinim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 06:26 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 06:24 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 06:16 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else. Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better. Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said. Benefit of the doubt? ok On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. hmmm, something is wrong here. Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money. My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??) Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
You're using a lot of very specious evidence in this argument. You don't know what TB's intentions were; you don't know what lindsay got paid, you don't know much money in SC2 for anyone of these casters.
And I don't know either. We're fundamentally ignorant of TB or incontrol's finances. We're fundamentally ignorant of Incontrol or TB's real motivations. We know essentially nothing substantial about either of these people. Thats why we look to interviews to see what the players and casters really believe themselves. Even then however we only see a shallow slice of their real personalities.
And that is also why we should take their opinions on face value without feeling the need to judge them. Its not our place to decide who is right or who is wrong. We cannot possibly know enough information about any of these people's lives to declare them "ignorant" or "hateful" or "hypocritical".
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On July 16 2011 06:37 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2011 06:31 Olinim wrote:On July 16 2011 06:26 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 06:24 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 06:16 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 06:08 Assirra wrote:On July 16 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote:On July 16 2011 05:49 On_Slaught wrote:On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote:
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought. What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview. Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory. That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them. If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse. So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else. Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better. Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said. Benefit of the doubt? ok On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. hmmm, something is wrong here. Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money. My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??) Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB? You're using a lot of very specious evidence in this argument. You don't know what TB's intentions were; you don't know what lindsay got paid, you don't know much money in SC2 for anyone of these casters. And I don't know either. We're fundamentally ignorant of TB or incontrol's finances. We're fundamentally ignorant of Incontrol or TB's real motivations. We know essentially nothing substantial about either of these people. Thats why we look to interviews to see what the players and casters really believe themselves. Even then however we only see a shallow slice of their real personalities. And that is also why we should take their opinions on face value without feeling the need to judge them. Its not our place to decide who is right or who is wrong. We cannot possibly know enough information about any of these people's lives to declare them "ignorant" or "hateful" or "hypocritical".
Exactly why Incontrols statements were in fact, baseless, hypocritical, and uninformed. Thanks for proving my point. And Incontrol said things that were hypocritical and ignorant. So yes I can declare him as such.
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EPT
