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On July 18 2011 10:12 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 20:41 uzas wrote:On July 17 2011 08:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 17 2011 06:43 Hardigan wrote:On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote:
I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby.
You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community. People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview. Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do. Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.) Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!" Really nicely put there. I disagree. Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument. Show nested quote +but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
You just ignore three things:
A) The remotely apologetic post from iNc your cited came after many dodging, deflecting and community-blaming posts.
B) Based on the facts TB did not move to SC2 purely for money, because it is obvious that other casting avenues would have provided more money. I don't know how much of a part money has played in his switch to SC2, I don't care. But should the falsehood spread, that TB switched JUST for the cash, it could directly hurt his popularity and his income. Thus it just seems fair that the things that are obviously not true are retracted.
C) The Sporrer-comparison. From her interviewing performance, I highly doubt that she is in for anything but cash and attention. So placing her over TB is just wrong.
To sum it up, you could form the following line with the fallacies of iNc's interview:
iNcontroL is a bad player (exaggeration - he plays some great, some good, some bad) and respect [insert random silver league toss] more for his playing skills.
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Ok Ok Ok now seriously this is the godamn final straw, before I was sad and empathatic towards the faults in the NASL...
But this just fucking ruins my day, I have watched like 3 live events of the NASL (sweden time fails at US time) but I managed to watch a match or two of the finals event.
But only a match or two, I have done my outmost best to not have anything spoiled.
+ Show Spoiler +So now, I'm finally finished with my exams, I buy some beers and I get home to really savor the whole NASL finals event. I remember someone telling me you have to go through Justin.tv to find the vods but I know they post them in chronological order and the NASL is fucking abhorrent at not naming the vods "Semi Finals" and instead they write "MC VERSUS THIS GUY, LOLOLSPOILER FUCK YOU", so I thought "Hey I'll go to their site, they must've learned something from the GSL where you can easily watch the finals two weeks after it had happened and still manage to not have it spoiled."
What do I see?
What the fuck do I see?
First I see "FINALS MATCH PUMA VS MC!"
And I think "Fucking fuck fuck fuck piss fuck fuck, now the whole finals are spoiled. Well atleast I can watch the final match and get excited at who might win, I've heard the games were awesome."
So I scross down to press the video.
Guess what?
Right bellow it is the brackets, with a huge fucking glowing "PUMA CHAMPIONSHIP WINNER!"
Seriously I apologize for swearing so much but this just makes me so fucking bitter and pissed off, I've tried to support the NASL throughout their mistakes, even though they kept spoiling matches that I really wanted to see.
But ruining the finals like that, on the front page of their own godamn site?
Seriously what the hell are you guys thinking? What idiot would pay for season 1 if all the results are already posted right at the very first page that he might try to do so? And justin.tv vods are even worse.
I'm just sad and pissed because even through all the whine and the forum trolling everyone has done, I can still enjoy the matches, I could've still done what InControl implored us to do; Just enjoy the good games for what they are regardless of the NASL's faults...
InControl... I really wish I could've. But you guys ruined it.
TLDR:
Had the finals spoiled because the NASL website is a fucking monument to spoiling and pissing people off. Don't care anymore, fuck the NASL in the future. Aslong as their site and vod system is a godamn abomination I'll continue to not just be neutral to them but actively dislike them since I paid for this and all I got was spoiled vods and games throughout the entire damn season.
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On July 18 2011 15:46 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:12 The KY wrote:On July 17 2011 20:41 uzas wrote:On July 17 2011 08:08 Ocedic wrote:On July 17 2011 06:43 Hardigan wrote:On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote:
I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby.
You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community. People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview. Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do. Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.) Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!" Really nicely put there. I disagree. On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument. but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason. You just ignore three things: A) The remotely apologetic post from iNc your cited came after many dodging, deflecting and community-blaming posts. B) Based on the facts TB did not move to SC2 purely for money, because it is obvious that other casting avenues would have provided more money. I don't know how much of a part money has played in his switch to SC2, I don't care. But should the falsehood spread, that TB switched JUST for the cash, it could directly hurt his popularity and his income. Thus it just seems fair that the things that are obviously not true are retracted. C) The Sporrer-comparison. From her interviewing performance, I highly doubt that she is in for anything but cash and attention. So placing her over TB is just wrong. To sum it up, you could form the following line with the fallacies of iNc's interview: iNcontroL is a bad player (exaggeration - he plays some great, some good, some bad) and respect [insert random silver league toss] more for his playing skills.
A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope.
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On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote:
A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope.
A) I misremembered the order.
B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc:
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point?
C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another.
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On July 18 2011 20:51 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote:
A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope. A) I misremembered the order. B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc: Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point? C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another.
B) Woops ^^. Well I guess that's one more thing I disagree with Inc about in this whole thing.
C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
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I don't care so much about iNc's opinion. He could say "TB is a bastard and I hate his guts" I wouldn't have cared so much. He said something that has been shown to be untrue and that could do lasting harm to reputation and career.
We also all know how to take an enraged Idra. In this case his reputation helps him and he is usually just insulting. Different matter here.
Also I still wanna know how the 'I can nap during MLG, so NASL final had more content density' is supposed to work.
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On July 18 2011 10:12 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument. Show nested quote +but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
Incorrect. He tried to justify his original opinion with more opinions. And opinions can be argued and debated. Meaning he left it open to more argument and opinion. The first rule of communication is if you don't want to argue, then don't leave room for argument. A statement such as "I didn't mean it like that, sorry" is concise and leaves no room for argument. That's the difference.
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Did you know that it takes about 2 hours to read through this thread from post 1?
Amazing.
I just wasted an entire evening. 
I can see how Incontrols words can be interpreted in a few ways and leave a lot of room for discussion, but they are still not as bad as most posts in this thread make it out to be. Also, an interview is taken live, so little mistakes are also captured without any visual communication or intonation.
I can say jokingly that I find day[9] a complete assh*le after beating me with a cannon rush, and if that is than published it will look poorly obviously.  But when streamed live with both of us laughing, it would just be a fine.
And he also acknowledged TB adds a lot to the community, so that is cleared up.
For arguments sake, "respect less than" is relative. As Zero Punctuation once showed it:
Scale of good:
HELL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoW >>>>>>>>>>>> TB > HOT CHICK >>> PORTAL > JESUS
So being less respected (in his opinion, as obviously this scale is something everyone decides for himself) does not automatically place him in the "scum of the earth" category.
So yeah, after wasting my evening on this, I did manage to at least put something in a post that makes some sence.
TB <3 Btw. I just hate how he keeps making me buy indie games.
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On July 19 2011 02:17 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 10:12 The KY wrote:On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument. but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason. Incorrect. He tried to justify his original opinion with more opinions. And opinions can be argued and debated. Meaning he left it open to more argument and opinion. The first rule of communication is if you don't want to argue, then don't leave room for argument. A statement such as "I didn't mean it like that, sorry" is concise and leaves no room for argument. That's the difference.
That's not concise, it just lacks information. Surely explanation is preferable to simple denial?
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On July 18 2011 21:01 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 20:51 Thrombozyt wrote:On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote:
A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope. A) I misremembered the order. B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc: On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point? C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another. B) Woops ^^. Well I guess that's one more thing I disagree with Inc about in this whole thing. C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
The thing about Idra bashing players and incontrol bashing people are different because Idra actually has skill to back his opinion up.
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On July 18 2011 21:01 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 20:51 Thrombozyt wrote:On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote:
A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope. A) I misremembered the order. B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc: On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote:
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all. No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point? C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another. B) Woops ^^. Well I guess that's one more thing I disagree with Inc about in this whole thing. C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
Ok man we all get that he doesn't have to apologize but THEN HE HAS A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH HIM. And inc said that he doesn't have any problem with TB and that its all overblown.
Do you get my point?
You tell me why didn't he apologize for bashing the man on some NASL interview that has no fucking deal with TB?
He didn't cause he has some fucking grudge and instead of bashing the low production NASL he bashed some individual who makes money of sc2 and he doesn't love the game as inc does.
Hilarious.
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On July 18 2011 21:01 The KY wrote:
C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
They both probably should, actually. All of those are the examples of extremely stupid things to say and/or do in public and does not reflect well on either of them at all (or their team and sponsors).
But it doesn't matter much, as a "public apology" is not really going to be taken as a honest one even if it were given. Not saying or doing similar things in the first place would be much more beneficial to them than apologies later on (not that there ever are any anyway).
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On July 15 2011 13:06 Demonace34 wrote:
I believe that Lindsey is Anna's friend though, so it isn't much of a surprise that he is defending her. I think he made a good point about Lindsey, but probably should of just kept the TB line to himself. Either way, just take it as bad blood and move on.
Not true, Linsday meeting Anna was caught on came and Linsey didnt know who the hell Anna was and they had a little 'OMG Squee' Beauty Queen moment.
I really dunno what was up with the TB comment, the dude has done alot for SC2 + E-sports as already been said.
Linsday Sporrer was a bit insulting. " Hey guys, look an attractive girl, stop complaining and drool over her, you fucking nerds."
Was Incontrol just trolling us? He seems quite intelligent, yet thick about the comparison between TB and LS.
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On July 20 2011 05:57 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 21:01 The KY wrote:
C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit? They both probably should, actually. All of those are the examples of extremely stupid things to say and/or do in public and does not reflect well on either of them at all (or their team and sponsors). But it doesn't matter much, as a "public apology" is not really going to be taken as a honest one even if it were given. Not saying or doing similar things in the first place would be much more beneficial to them than apologies later on (not that there ever are any anyway).
Heh...ok dude, if you feel like you need an apology for every bad thing every community pillar ever says, then I guess we're living in different worlds.
If you feel that a public apology is needed, then you are implying that there are a significant number of people who feel personally offended by this. Do you feel hurt and offended? Would an apology make it a little more bearable? Because I put it to you that anyone except TotalBiscuit who in any way feels they need to be apologised to is so oversensitive that it's ridiculous.
The idea of Inc actually coming out and saying 'I apologise, sincerely, to TotalBiscuit, his fans, my mom, America, Jesus...i have let you all down.' I mean, I thought it was batshit crazy when Tiger Woods apologised, but this!
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Incontrol describes hiring a hot babe who knows nothing about SC2 as an "unusual but smart move".
"Some things that might seem silly or small, for instance bringing Lindsey Sporrer in and getting her involved in the role of interviewing and hosting, that’s something other sports have gravitated to but in Starcraft we really haven’t seen that move before, a move toward having a female identity and presence that’s anything more than just a pretty face and that was an intelligent decision, "
Let's see what the CEO of MLG has to say about it.
" MLG's casts are already made of individuals famous overseas such as Tasteless and Artosis. In the case of female cast members, I think what's important is to have people who know a lot about the game to increase the quality of production. You have to think of it within that scope of not damaging the production. I think NASL lacked the professional experience to a certain extent in that regard. "
I bet MLG makes more money this year than the NASL... if the NASL even exists by year's end.
I trust Sundance's comments far more than Incontrol's.
Sundance must be careful and measure every word because of his leadership position at MLG.
The official translation of Sundance's criticism of the NASL is this:
"NASL looked like total idiots putting that bimbo on the show"
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On July 24 2011 11:49 EGiNcholesteroL wrote:Insightful thread, but iNcontroL really let himself go since then... http://imgur.com/A8Lap
You know TL knows what your other site/forum accounts are. :D can't wait for your ban.
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If you're going to get mad about people getting into an e-sport because of the potential for profit, what is the point of supporting the e-sports community? So it can be a club of people chilling in their basement? When profit is involved, we get stuff like MLG, where it's a huge community of people NERDCHILLING in an awesomely public venue!
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EPT
