Recently, Ryan "neversleep" Smith of http://www.myEG.net/ caught up with Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson for an in-depth interview about the NASL. In this interview, he answers questions about a number of topics surrounding the league. Here's an except from the interview:
neversleep: You were the source of a lot of the initial hype surrounding the NASL leading up to its launch and you became very closely associated with it--something of a figurehead for the entire league--have you been comfortable with that role? What’s that experience been like for you?
iNcontroL:A lot of times when I’m taking on a project I like to jump in with both feet and really go for it. The NASL was of a much bigger magnitude so when I jumped in and starting hyping it and putting out all the promises about what we wanted to accomplish, it was sort of from the perspective of a bewildered commentator--I didn’t really have a say in any of the decisions going into it. So it was a learning experience in the sense that I was the voice to the community on things that didn’t necessarily come to be, so I became the focus of all those unfulfilled expectations. In the future I think I’ll be a lot more cautious with my words because as you’ve seen elsewhere, it’s easier to be conservative and then surprise people than it is to announce the coming of a new era and then try to meet that expectation.
neversleep: We’ve just hit on the real high point of Season One but you know better than anyone that the NASL had its share of bumps in the road--having heard your share of the complaints, what criticisms do you think have been the most fair and which the most unfair?
iNcontroL:The most fair criticisms most certainly have been focused on the production side of things, but I think all criticism is valid, it just depends on how you go about voicing those concerns. But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism, or who they respect, when those things are pushed too far you risk becoming just some anonymous flamer on a forum. But if you say, ‘Hey, having an unstable schedule, broken projectors, a poor streaming experience--these things are not good and here are some reasons why and what you might do about it’, that’s completely valid and should be listened to. A lot of the problems were rooted in this simply being the first time out with a lot of trial and error which everyone was witness to. The important thing to remember is that the longer the NASL goes and the better they get about correcting those issues, they’re learning lessons all the time and getting faster about producing a better experience. A lot of people commented that Day One was an atrocity but Day Two was almost perfect--that’s the kind of turnaround the NASL should focus on replicating in the future.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
I don't get it either, also the last 8 player invitation. (for which the prize pool of $1500 or $2500 were all directly from his as revenue from previous casts) I am not the biggest TB fan as a caster but I really like what he has done for the community. I believe he even said he makes way more money from WoW than starcraft, but he does starcraft stuff for the community and enjoys it. Also how can you not like a man who co-casted with MC?
SirScoots ordered this interview to put distance between NASL and EG, called it ;-)
I really don't understand his broadside against Totalbiscuit however.. Geoff has time and time again said that the 'trolling' between Totalbiscuit and himself was just evil rumors and people looking for drama.. Well, if you make a comment like: "I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit" you are basicly going for the throat of the man.. Previous statements become quite hollow..
The EG-house sounds awesome, can't wait to see what kind of beast DeMuslim will turn into, once put into a training regiment.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
yeah surprising comment coming from Incontrol
TotalBiscuit is a tremendously popular youtube personality and his subscriber base covers a wide gamut of different gaming backgrounds & genres
kind of surprised that Incontrol does not see how someone like TotalBiscuit can and does help expand Starcraft 2, and like you've already mentioned, TotalBiscuit has already given something back to progamers with his 1 day tournament.
anyways, inb4 TotalBiscuit starts defending himself via twitter, TL posts, or other means of communication
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
TotalBiscuit has addressed this...his other videos (he quit WoW content, mainly his WTF is? series which is first impressions content) get like 8 times the amount of views as his SC2 stuff does, and WoW content gets tons as well. I'm not saying his SC2 stuff isn't making him money, but to say he switched to make money is ludicrous.
Yeah his comment about TB was lame. Nothing wrong with getting into something for cash otherwise why am I going to university? Skool sux. But studying a bunch of stuff I found accounting specifically tax accounting to be very interesting. Same goes for TB he obviously loves the game now whatever his intentions were for joining and is enthusiastic and gives back.
Good interview but I have two issues. The totalbiscuit thing doesn't make a lot of sense, if he was in it just for the money he wouldn't be doing eSports broadcasting at all.
As far as the delays go, comparing them to Columbus and Homestory Cup is ludicrous, NASL delays were for worse and far more often. Saying he can take a nap between his matches at MLG has nothing to do with the spectators. We got pretty much constant games at Columbus, nobody cares if Incontrol was sleeping well we were watching them. I understand why it might not seem like the NASL delays were that bad to Incontrol though, he was actually at the event and was probably busy with work or being social during much of the downtime which would definitely make it pass faster. I think if he watched the uncut VODs especially from days 1 and 2 his perspective would be different.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Ya because he doesn't constantly promote starcraft on his channel, actively play to get better, and put his own money into hosting entertaining tournaments... oh wait he does...
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
"doing what she enjoys and she's dedicated to doing it well" Replace the she's with he's and you are talking about TB. He has always been passionate about gaming and providing content for it.
I understand iNcontroL doesn't know much about TB or listen to any of his views and simply prefers to make statements based on his intuition of what kind of person he thinks TB is, but after I heard one of TB's dreamhack casts awhile ago and then looked into his channel... he actually has a very large interest in expanding esports and promoting games in general.
I guess that's why the response bothered me the most... I just highly doubt Geoff knows much about him, but he makes those kinds of statements anyway.
Other than that I thought it was a pretty good interview.
Nice interview but I disagree with the part about lindsey sporrer being a brilliant decision. The girl tried her best and did a good job in the end, but the first day was terrible it was clear she had no idea what she was talking about. While no-one was expecting Artosis level knowledge and I agree bringing in "camera pretty" personalities is a good step, they really should have required her to sit down a day before play a couple of games and read about the scene so she didn't look like complete buffoon during the interviews. It might have been a good idea at its heart but it was terribly managed in my opinion, a lot of the backlash could easily have been avoided.
Furthermore it saddens me when I see a lot of people blaming the fan backlash on the community being a bunch of misogynistic assholes who can't accept a female. Sure there are probably some misogynists, but there are assholes that hate on every personality for the most trivial of reasons. While not only negative and wrong, it paints the community in a bad light and doesn't help starcraft to grow, especially among the female audience. I think the most of the hate came not because she was female but because she was clueless on the first day. From the view of the fan its somewhat insulting to have someone who doesn't know what they are doing and be told we have to to like it or we are sexist pigs if you voice a complaint. It insinuates that the fans are mindless idiots and as long as we are given a pretty face it doesn't matter how terrible they are we will love it. While I wasn't one of the people railing against the girl, I know she was simply trying her hardest, I can see where a lot of people were coming from and how they might take it too far.
I really think the management did a terrible job in not making sure she was orientated and knew the basics about starcraft 2. When you watch a professional female interviewer for other sports, you don't expect her to be an expert but they always atleast are knowledgeable enough about the game, its terminology and players to be able to ask relevant questions.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
Yeah, I don't understand this comment either. TotalBiscuit has given way more to the StarCraft II community than he has taken from it. He has sponsored showmatches and tournaments out of his own pocket in the past and he plans on continuing this by using the money he is generating from his stream.to sponsor even more events.
Also, the comment after that about Lindsey doing the NASL event because she's "doing what she enjoys" and not because "she's looking to get rich" is equally as strange. It's pretty clear she did the event because she thought she could make a quick buck out of it. Isn't this exactly the type of thing that iNcontroL takes offense to? People coming from a non StarCraft related background and making money out of StarCraft II?
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Ya because he doesn't constantly promote starcraft on his channel, actively play to get better, and put his own money into hosting entertaining tournaments... oh wait he does...
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
"doing what she enjoys and she's dedicated to doing it well" Replace the she's with he's and you are talking about TB. He has always been passionate about gaming and providing content for it.
I understand iNcontroL doesn't know much about TB or listen to any of his views and simply prefers to make statements based on his intuition of what kind of person he thinks TB is, but after I heard one of TB's dreamhack casts awhile ago and then looked into his channel... he actually has a very large interest in expanding esports and promoting games in general.
I guess that's why the response bothered me the most... I just highly doubt Geoff knows much about him, but he makes those kinds of statements anyway.
Other than that I thought it was a pretty good interview.
also "people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II". doesn't that sound a lot more like Lindsey?
Incontrol talks about how Russ' puts in his money in order to host a tournament. TB did the same thing. Incontrol talks about expanding e-sports, breaking away from the mold,using the perspective of somebody from outside the starcraft scene, isn't that what TotalBiscuit was? and now that he's become a fan of the game. Isn't that the exact thing that Incontrol says he wants. The only thing that's different is TB isn't as hot as Lindsey
I hope that someday esports, and competitive gaming in general, are big enough that we are in a position to make distinctions between casters/personalities/gamers based on what game/genre they play. "Oh.. Soandso? He's just carpet bagging SC3. He's totally a LoL2 devotee." Unfortunately we are not in a position where we can fracture our community into a bunch of niches. We, as gamers, are a niche demographic. Were we to do that now a lot of the people "in" this community would have to go. Wheat? Isn't a SC:BW/RTS guy. 2gd? Known for ego shooters and MMOs/arena. TotalBiscuit, while a bit defensive/reactionary on social media, is a professional. We need all of those on our side that we can get.
(edit before someone takes my comments the wrong way: I love djwheat and 2gd)
The format of the EG site is really poor in my opinion the coloring is weird and the text is small. It's difficult to actually navigate and to read the interview.
Not to take away anything from the rest of the interview but I really don't see why incontrol is bashing totalbiscuit. Does he know something we don't? Has he gleaned into the heart of John Bain and discovered only black selfish greed there? I know TB's a love or hate figure within the community but from what I've seen so far, he does care about the game & scene and does his share of contributions. Is incontrol just frustrated that an outsider like TB came in and found success in SC? Maybe some BW elitist part of him resents successful newcomers? Or maybe he has a personal beef with him? I guess only incontrol knows.
Seems pretty standard from Geoff. Next he's probably going to accuse us of being trolls and trying to cause drama. His PR spins are good but his personality leaks through once in a while and it leaves these giant holes in the PR image he's trying to project... and frankly it's hurting E-sports.
On July 15 2011 12:46 BearChocolate wrote: The format of the EG site is really poor in my opinion the coloring is weird and the text is small. It's difficult to actually navigate and to read the interview.
Pretty dumb of Incontrol to bring up TotalBiscuit like he did. Draws attention away from everything else he said well and makes the conversation instead revolve around some stupid drama instead.
Doesn't seem very genius to bring someone that made herself look stupid and unprofessional and when the idea didn't end up appearing to work, whatever the idea was. And I don't think people are more negative about it because she is a female, I'm quite sure it's the other way around. It would have been a lot worse if it was a guy or even if she was less attractive looking. I might have gotten the wrong impression or whatever but when I watched Josh's interview with her, well I don't know what to say, embarrassing even as a viewer?
Anyway, thanks for a good interview. The more I read about(and watched) NASL the more it makes me think the owner? tries to fill roles for jobs that are normally done by skilled people with many years of experience. Hope he is an unusually fast learner or gets a hold of some experienced producers. Ironically I have extremely low expectations on the next season, I don't expect anything to feel "professional" other than the players and casters.
You really gotta wonder how much TB is on Geoff's mind for him to be brought out of no where and insulted. Defending Lindsey who never heard of SC before she got hired to interview nerds at an event by throwing TB under the bus. Stay Classy...
Spending too much time with IdrA, maybe? Some things you just have to think about before you say. I appreciate honesty but I also appreciate respect. Personally I try to look at everyone in this scene as a good guy first, and change my opinion as evidence arises (Kelly, TB, Lindsey, whoever). I don't know why so many people are cynical/paranoid about everything.
actually I'm kind of surprised EG didn't just edit it out, it's kind of bad PR
I knew from the very first time I heard him speak Inctrl is a very smart guy, and ever since then I've gained nothing for him but more and more respect. I'm sure NASL season two will be infinitely better than season one - even if it's not they'll be getting my routine viewership.
Who cares, he has a bad opinion of TB, sometimes bad blood just sticks between two people or two groups (IdrA and Inc vs TB or EG vs Complexity). Just ignore one line of text and get over it. The rest of the interview is quite good. NASL turned around the last two days well and it was one hell of a final.
On July 15 2011 13:03 Hrrrrm wrote: You really gotta wonder how much TB is on Geoff's mind for him to be brought out of no where and insulted. Defending Lindsey who never heard of SC before she got hired to interview nerds at an event by throwing TB under the bus. Stay Classy...
I believe that Lindsey is Anna's friend though, so it isn't much of a surprise that he is defending her. I think he made a good point about Lindsey, but probably should of just kept the TB line to himself. Either way, just take it as bad blood and move on.
Gahhh. I just keep coming back to this thread because it disappoints me so much.
I can already see Geoff's reaction, "Haters gonna hate... TeamLiquid forums are full of trolls now... etc".
I've been around for a while and I have never hated Geoff. I certainly came to this thread thinking, "Cool. Let's see what interesting things Geoff has to say about NASL, he's a smart dude".
Instead I'm wishing I hadn't read it because it vindicates the other side of me that hears Incontrol mentioned and thinks, "Uhoh. It's this guy sticking his foot in his mouth again and scowling at us for telling him to take it out."
How many $1.5k tournaments has incontrol personally funded and casted? Yet he charges insane fees for his coaching. Maybe not the best person to criticize TB for getting into sc2 "for the riches"...
So how much money has lindsey taken out of her pocket for showmatches, etc?
Because I know TB has.
The TB hate is so stupid. He obv enjoys SC2 and attempts to make it better and esports as a whole.
And this
On July 15 2011 12:46 BearChocolate wrote: The format of the EG site is really poor in my opinion the coloring is weird and the text is small. It's difficult to actually navigate and to read the interview.
tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
Well that argument can be made, but there’s also the argument that the role being filled there is someone who’s attractive in front of the camera, isn’t necessarily an expert on Starcraft, and she’s there to offer a different perspective as someone who doesn’t come from a Starcraft background.
She's get's a paycheck to look good in front of a camera.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
TB get's paid to entertain, he also pumps money into Starcraft more than most and brings a shit ton of new players into the game, including adults who would have never considered it.
iNcontroL, I really like you and your influence on the starcraft scene. I appreciate your straightforward honesty and enthusiasm, very refreshing. However, I really think you're off base on this.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning.
Because she was so passionate about starcraft BEFORE her agent signed her up for a gig?
The fact is that Lindsey is completely, 100% brand new to the starcraft, even esports, community and only started to get a paycheck.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
So what? Why do any of us go to school rather than play SC all day and work at lowes. Money.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2). If she was really passionate about SC2 in the first place , she would have known about it instead of being enthusiastic about it AFTER being hired by NASL. Not to say her enthusiasm for the game isn't genuine because it might very well be but it wasn't a root cause for her entry to NASL.
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
Yes. Hence why I merely mentioned it and said I respect it "LESS" not that I HATE it or want to attack him etc...
TB is extremely critical of almost everything I do. I am critical of him trying to make money off of SC2... he isn't a bad guy and he does other things that are good. Please stop trying to make this more than what it is.
I've never been the biggest Totalbiscuit fan (to the extent where he commented on my youtube profile with the c-bomb); however just because he may not be acting entirely selflessly doesn't really detract from what he's done for the community. He might be a bit of a lame caster, without a good supporting commentator by his side, but he's certainly helped grow SC2 in the UK as well as engaged newer players with his videos. Give the guy a break, he gets enough flak from the rest of the community for other reasons. Enjoyable read otherwise. iNcontroL and Gretorp took it to another level for the finals.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
Would you coach for free? Why did I have to pay $25 for an NASL pass then?
Your argument doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you are making money as long as you are contributing and promoting the game.
Why would you bash someone that hosts tournaments and contributes to the community?
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
When he started casting SC2 it wasn't clear at all that it would be as big as it is now. What right to you have to speculate about him?
I could say that NASL isn't 100% selfless because it aims to make profit in the long run. I've never heard of the president before it start it, maybe he's just some guy trying to capitalize on ESPORTS???? But of course I don't say that, because it would be a huge dick move.
TB is extremely critical of almost everything I do. I am critical of him trying to make money off of SC2... he isn't a bad guy and he does other things that are good. Please stop trying to make this more than what it is.
You two are extremely similar tbh. Incredibly reactive to any sort of criticism. You're a bit more passive and he's a bit more aggressive, but your posts are almost interchangeable.
On July 15 2011 13:18 iNcontroL wrote: Yes. Hence why I merely mentioned it and said I respect it "LESS" not that I HATE it or want to attack him etc...
TB is extremely critical of almost everything I do. I am critical of him trying to make money off of SC2... he isn't a bad guy and he does other things that are good. Please stop trying to make this more than what it is.
Incontrol...TB puts back a large amount of the money he makes from sc2 right back into the community through stuff like the shoutcraft invitational. How much money do you make off sc2 and how much do you put back in?
I don't understand where this view of TB as some casting golddigger comes from...
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
Would you coach for free? Why did I have to pay $25 for an NASL then?
Your argument doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you are making money as long as you are contributing and promoting the game.
Please try and read what I said.. in this thread and the interview. I said I "take more offense" and then I explained (in this thread) that that does not equate to hating him or thinking he is scum. I even recognize that he has done good, which he has and it benefits us all. I merely said he moved to SC2 from WoW purely to make money and I respected that LESS than being hired from an agent to host in a league.
THAT_WAS_IT
now I don't wanna spam this thread with my defense. Nobody is bringing anything up new. They are attacking my coaching and saying TB does more than I do. Fine, that is all acceptable for you to argue. But please try and take a deep breath and read what I said because I don't have some huge pent up TB rage and if you have huge pent up iNc rage then that kinda sucks >_<
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
So did IGN, so does a lot of companies involved with the pro scene. It's going to get a lot more common as well if starcraft 2 is going to grow. The base that would do it for love alone is only so big. I don't think it's cool just singling out TB like that man, particularly when he's already got a lot of unwarrented shit from the community.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
Would you coach for free? Why did I have to pay $25 for an NASL then?
Your argument doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you are making money as long as you are contributing and promoting the game.
Please try and read what I said.. in this thread and the interview. I said I "take more offense" and then I explained (in this thread) that that does not equate to hating him or thinking he is scum. I even recognize that he has done good, which he has and it benefits us all. I merely said he moved to SC2 from WoW purely to make money and I respected that LESS than being hired from an agent to host in a league.
THAT_WAS_IT
now I don't wanna spam this thread with my defense. Nobody is bringing anything up new. They are attacking my coaching and saying TB does more than I do. Fine, that is all acceptable for you to argue. But please try and take a deep breath and read what I said because I don't have some huge pent up TB rage and if you have huge pent up iNc rage then that kinda sucks >_<
It is an extremely poor choice of words to say "I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit." when you just previously stated that you do not take offense to someone else. This is a very inappropriate name drop just to prove that you take offense to someone's work.
Honestly you could have avoided catching hell if you just held such an unnecessary specificity such as a name when it did not need to be there to answer the question asked.
Well I like the fact that iNcontroL actually has opinions instead of all the politically correct stuff you usually see in interviews.
Also people will get offended over anything over the internet, like the whole "Those TL kids" where it was pretty much a translation issue, and the word could be interchanged with guys but everyone suddenly got super offended and whiny over it.
W/e, was an interesting interview to read, and it's nice to see that a progamer shares some of the same views I do in some aspects, but also believe you're defending Russell Pfister a biiiit too much. He should've at least consulted someone who's done this before and gotten help for at least the first tournament to cut down on the issues I think, especially for the amount of money he invested into it he could've gotten so much more
Edit: Not talking about the TB issue, but... kinda the other ones
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
Would you coach for free? Why did I have to pay $25 for an NASL then?
Your argument doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you are making money as long as you are contributing and promoting the game.
Please try and read what I said.. in this thread and the interview. I said I "take more offense" and then I explained (in this thread) that that does not equate to hating him or thinking he is scum. I even recognize that he has done good, which he has and it benefits us all. I merely said he moved to SC2 from WoW purely to make money and I respected that LESS than being hired from an agent to host in a league.
THAT_WAS_IT
now I don't wanna spam this thread with my defense. Nobody is bringing anything up new. They are attacking my coaching and saying TB does more than I do. Fine, that is all acceptable for you to argue. But please try and take a deep breath and read what I said because I don't have some huge pent up TB rage and if you have huge pent up iNc rage then that kinda sucks >_<
It is an extremely poor choice of words to say "I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit." when you just previously stated that you do not take offense to someone else. This is a very inappropriate name drop just to prove that you take offense to someone's work.
Honestly you could have avoided catching hell if you just held such an unnecessary specificity such as a name when it did not need to be there to answer the question asked.
On July 15 2011 13:22 dtz wrote:My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
This sums it up. Acting like Lindsey or TB made their decisions from their heart is laughable, just two people looking for some PR.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
His post has nothing to do with you... It is only comparing TB and Lindsey. Really hard to try and give you some respect when you hardball at TB like this when the Lindsey situation is almost the same. I mean you mention that it's different because her agency hired her, but she could have easily turned the offer down. Before this she never even heard of starcraft so how can you say she does it because it is what she enjoys when that would mean the same thing for TB. Switching mediums but still doing what he enjoys.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
Yeah, I don't understand this comment either. TotalBiscuit has given way more to the StarCraft II community than he has taken from it. He has sponsored showmatches and tournaments out of his own pocket in the past and he plans on continuing this by using the money he is generating from his stream.to sponsor even more events.
Also, the comment after that about Lindsey doing the NASL event because she's "doing what she enjoys" and not because "she's looking to get rich" is equally as strange. It's pretty clear she did the event because she thought she could make a quick buck out of it. Isn't this exactly the type of thing that iNcontroL takes offense to? People coming from a non StarCraft related background and making money out of StarCraft II?
Such weird comments man...
Except Lindsey was hired by the NASL, so not sure how that fits with iNcontrol's offense?
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You're behaving like a hypocrite. Countless people moved from SC to SC2 because they believed they had a higher chance of making money, in both player roles and associated roles such as casters. Money wasn't the main incentive though, most of them had an extreme passion for the game and/or gaming in general.
TB is fantastic; his passion for gaming is extremely diverse and because he's passionate about what he does, he's managed to turn it into a profitable venture. If you spent 10 minutes browsing his youtube channel, you'd see he puts back copious amounts into the gaming community at large, making countless videos promoting unheard indie games and broadening their appeal to his audience. If he was purely driven to make money, he would never have wasted his time with these things.
Myself, as a gamer with a wide range of interests of which starcraft is one in particular, can objectively look at TB and say he's done more for gaming at large than you have. It's disgusting to make hypocritical attacks on a well-intentioned member of the gaming community such as TB while on the other hand defend some pretty-faced model who clearly came to the NASL finals in order to promote herself and make a quick buck, knowing absolutely nothing about SC2 (or gaming) in general.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You're behaving like a hypocrite. Countless people moved from SC to SC2 because they believed they had a higher chance of making money, in both player roles and associated roles such as casters. Money wasn't the main incentive though, most of them had an extreme passion for the game and/or gaming in general.
TB is fantastic; his passion for gaming is extremely diverse and because he's passionate about what he does, he's managed to turn it into a profitable venture. If you spent 10 minutes browsing his youtube channel, you'd see he puts back copious amounts into the gaming community at large, making countless videos promoting unheard indie games and broadening their appeal to his audience. If he was purely driven to make money, he would never have wasted his time with these things.
Myself, as a gamer with a wide range of interests of which starcraft is one in particular, can objectively look at TB and say he's done more for gaming at large than you have. It's disgusting to make hypocritical attacks on a well-intentioned member of the gaming community such as TB while on the other hand defend some pretty-faced model who clearly came to the NASL finals in order to promote herself and make a quick buck, knowing absolutely nothing about SC2 (or gaming) in general.
Umm, you do realize most of TB's income actually comes from YouTube videos? Just saying... That's kinda half his job... Nothing to do with passion in some cases, like TB doesn't even play WoW anymore but he knows that brings in the most profit cos more people view it, so he still does WoW coverage at times like Cata beta
"I think in order for Starcraft and e-sports in general to continue growing it’s important to break away from the mold of thinking we need Artosis for instance at every event doing every interview-"
I completely disagree with this statement, sure we don't need someone who pretty much lives and breathes starcraft, like artosis, but someone like Lindsey wont understand the extremely detailed concepts of starcraft, and that will always be extremely obvious. An example of a question from someone who obviously knows a thing or two about starcraft is: MLG: Zerg as a whole did very well in Columbus, taking five of the Top 8 spots. You've been very open with your criticism of Zerg being the weakest race for the majority of SC2's lifespan; do you feel like the results in Columbus were an anomaly, or that Zergs have begun to solidify timings and regain control of the various matchups?
Keep in mind I'm not saying Lindsey is stupid, but she would never ask a question like that unless she was the type of person that will regularily ladder and/or watch streams, and it will always be obvious in the interviews when the interviewer isn't involved in starcraft.
I'd like to just start off by saying that I love Incontrol and to be frank really dislike Tb's commentary and lack of professionalism at times (Which Incontrol is guilty of at times aswell I think) therefore I probably bias but I still think my point holds true. That being said I do not think it was wise of Incontrol to just drop that in the interview. Maybe Incontrol knows something we don't or has approached Tb from a different angle than the average viewer.
Though ultimately my point is that I feel like Tb hasn't put in the time and effort to actually to learn sc2 in depth at all. If you listen to him commentate, it just isn't intelligent and I feel like that he just gets by with his accent instead of putting the time and effort into learning the game and at least trying to be an intelligent and entertaining caster instead of just capitalizing on his diction, pronunciation and his flow. I just feel like casters have an obligation to know what they are talking about. And totalbiscuit just isn't putting forth that effort and maybe incontrol shares my sentiment.
But hell this is all speculation and i probably know only a quarter of the facts, but i do understand Incontrol's statement and where he is coming from.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You're behaving like a hypocrite. Countless people moved from SC to SC2 because they believed they had a higher chance of making money, in both player roles and associated roles such as casters. Money wasn't the main incentive though, most of them had an extreme passion for the game and/or gaming in general.
TB is fantastic; his passion for gaming is extremely diverse and because he's passionate about what he does, he's managed to turn it into a profitable venture. If you spent 10 minutes browsing his youtube channel, you'd see he puts back copious amounts into the gaming community at large, making countless videos promoting unheard indie games and broadening their appeal to his audience. If he was purely driven to make money, he would never have wasted his time with these things.
Myself, as a gamer with a wide range of interests of which starcraft is one in particular, can objectively look at TB and say he's done more for gaming at large than you have. It's disgusting to make hypocritical attacks on a well-intentioned member of the gaming community such as TB while on the other hand defend some pretty-faced model who clearly came to the NASL finals in order to promote herself and make a quick buck, knowing absolutely nothing about SC2 (or gaming) in general.
Umm, you do realize most of TB's income actually comes from YouTube videos? Just saying... That's kinda half his job... Nothing to do with passion in some cases, like TB doesn't even play WoW anymore but he knows that brings in the most profit cos more people view it, so he still does WoW coverage at times like Cata beta
He played WoW up to, during, and after the Cataclysm beta. He only recently quit (recently as in a few months ago).
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You're behaving like a hypocrite. Countless people moved from SC to SC2 because they believed they had a higher chance of making money, in both player roles and associated roles such as casters. Money wasn't the main incentive though, most of them had an extreme passion for the game and/or gaming in general.
TB is fantastic; his passion for gaming is extremely diverse and because he's passionate about what he does, he's managed to turn it into a profitable venture. If you spent 10 minutes browsing his youtube channel, you'd see he puts back copious amounts into the gaming community at large, making countless videos promoting unheard indie games and broadening their appeal to his audience. If he was purely driven to make money, he would never have wasted his time with these things.
Myself, as a gamer with a wide range of interests of which starcraft is one in particular, can objectively look at TB and say he's done more for gaming at large than you have. It's disgusting to make hypocritical attacks on a well-intentioned member of the gaming community such as TB while on the other hand defend some pretty-faced model who clearly came to the NASL finals in order to promote herself and make a quick buck, knowing absolutely nothing about SC2 (or gaming) in general.
Umm, you do realize most of TB's income actually comes from YouTube videos? Just saying... That's kinda half his job... Nothing to do with passion in some cases, like TB doesn't even play WoW anymore but he knows that brings in the most profit cos more people view it, so he still does WoW coverage at times like Cata beta
He played WoW up to, during, and after the Cataclysm beta. He only recently quit (recently as in a few months ago).
He stated on IRC that he didn't even play anymore, but he still does beta coverage during the beta... Also that he had no interest in the game... Maybe he was exaggerating, but "playing" the beta, he obviously needed footage and maybe he played a little after too to see what it was like on release but I don't think it was actually playing.
Also Edit: I'm not saying I dislike TB, I like him a lot and talked to him occasionally over the years, and I think he has an awesome voice/accent. But just saying, it's his job, and he makes money off it. Everyone would if they had the talent and skill to, it's not like he's some crazy martyr out there to save the world of gaming
I'm not sure how you can criticise that TB does Starcraft 2 only for money, when he's stated multiple times that Starcraft 2 is the only game he plays for personal enjoyment.
Do you think less of players who never played SC1, and moved to SC2 from Warcraft 3 or other RTS's because there's more money in it?
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
Ill preface this saying I don't agree with iNc:
You really don't understand his point.
iNc has been involved in sc and sc2 FROM THE BEGINNING.
To say he's done nothing for the community is also completely untrue, and just plain stupid
He has NOTHING against people making money, he was just saying he took more offense to someone SWITCHING to sc2 to make money, than to lindsey.
I Also don't know if you realised, doing 2 shows, casting 9-5, iNc still managed to squeek into season 2 of NASL, while thats not a huge accomplishment, now without NASL thats 40hours+ more a week he has open to train, not to mention the EG house.
Attacking him personally, instead of trying to understand and or argue his point is just inflammatory and downright ignorant.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
Good to see you said it as nicely as you could. INC actually streams games and talks about what he did right and wrong, was on SOTG for a ton of episodes talking about match-ups, making us laugh, etc, he has held his own at MLG and has been a part of this community forever. Why go and shit on him like that?
Not to mention making a ton of fallacies and not actually arguing against his points. Calling someone a hypocrite isn't an logical argument.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You're behaving like a hypocrite. Countless people moved from SC to SC2 because they believed they had a higher chance of making money, in both player roles and associated roles such as casters. Money wasn't the main incentive though, most of them had an extreme passion for the game and/or gaming in general.
TB is fantastic; his passion for gaming is extremely diverse and because he's passionate about what he does, he's managed to turn it into a profitable venture. If you spent 10 minutes browsing his youtube channel, you'd see he puts back copious amounts into the gaming community at large, making countless videos promoting unheard indie games and broadening their appeal to his audience. If he was purely driven to make money, he would never have wasted his time with these things.
Myself, as a gamer with a wide range of interests of which starcraft is one in particular, can objectively look at TB and say he's done more for gaming at large than you have. It's disgusting to make hypocritical attacks on a well-intentioned member of the gaming community such as TB while on the other hand defend some pretty-faced model who clearly came to the NASL finals in order to promote herself and make a quick buck, knowing absolutely nothing about SC2 (or gaming) in general.
Umm, you do realize most of TB's income actually comes from YouTube videos? Just saying... That's kinda half his job... Nothing to do with passion in some cases, like TB doesn't even play WoW anymore but he knows that brings in the most profit cos more people view it, so he still does WoW coverage at times like Cata beta
He played WoW up to, during, and after the Cataclysm beta. He only recently quit (recently as in a few months ago).
He stated on IRC that he didn't even play anymore, but he still does beta coverage during the beta... Also that he had no interest in the game... Maybe he was exaggerating, but "playing" the beta, he obviously needed footage and maybe he played a little after too to see what it was like on release but I don't think it was actually playing.
Also Edit: I'm not saying I dislike TB, I like him a lot and talked to him occasionally over the years, and I think he has an awesome voice/accent. But just saying, it's his job, and he makes money off it. Everyone would if they had the talent and skill to, it's not like he's some crazy martyr out there to save the world of gaming
Uh, Alissy, Cataclysm beta has been over for a while. When he stopped playing WoW, his WoW coverage stopped almost entirely. He filmed all the footage from the beta himself because he was genuinely excited about it.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You're behaving like a hypocrite. Countless people moved from SC to SC2 because they believed they had a higher chance of making money, in both player roles and associated roles such as casters. Money wasn't the main incentive though, most of them had an extreme passion for the game and/or gaming in general.
TB is fantastic; his passion for gaming is extremely diverse and because he's passionate about what he does, he's managed to turn it into a profitable venture. If you spent 10 minutes browsing his youtube channel, you'd see he puts back copious amounts into the gaming community at large, making countless videos promoting unheard indie games and broadening their appeal to his audience. If he was purely driven to make money, he would never have wasted his time with these things.
Myself, as a gamer with a wide range of interests of which starcraft is one in particular, can objectively look at TB and say he's done more for gaming at large than you have. It's disgusting to make hypocritical attacks on a well-intentioned member of the gaming community such as TB while on the other hand defend some pretty-faced model who clearly came to the NASL finals in order to promote herself and make a quick buck, knowing absolutely nothing about SC2 (or gaming) in general.
Umm, you do realize most of TB's income actually comes from YouTube videos? Just saying... That's kinda half his job... Nothing to do with passion in some cases, like TB doesn't even play WoW anymore but he knows that brings in the most profit cos more people view it, so he still does WoW coverage at times like Cata beta
He played WoW up to, during, and after the Cataclysm beta. He only recently quit (recently as in a few months ago).
He stated on IRC that he didn't even play anymore, but he still does beta coverage during the beta... Also that he had no interest in the game... Maybe he was exaggerating, but "playing" the beta, he obviously needed footage and maybe he played a little after too to see what it was like on release but I don't think it was actually playing.
Also Edit: I'm not saying I dislike TB, I like him a lot and talked to him occasionally over the years, and I think he has an awesome voice/accent. But just saying, it's his job, and he makes money off it. Everyone would if they had the talent and skill to, it's not like he's some crazy martyr out there to save the world of gaming
Uh, Alissy, Cataclysm beta has been over for a while. When he stopped playing WoW, his WoW coverage stopped almost entirely. He filmed all the footage from the beta himself because he was genuinely excited about it.
If he doesn't sound genuinely excited about it, then who'd watch it..? That's kinda his talent. Also you're not basing your argument off anything, just saying this is that or w/e and I stated my source as TB. Idk where you're getting this
i find it funny that the person who calls himself a face of sc2 can justify himself bashing other people who work in the same community. i see no wrong in tb working on sc2 even if he was in it for the money because i can't forsee any negative outcomes to more sc2 exposure. personally i believe incontrol has a habit of having beef with other community figures, taking cheap shots, then downplaying it.
On July 15 2011 13:42 ProtossPenny wrote: I'd like to just start off by saying that I love Incontrol and to be frank really dislike Tb's commentary and lack of professionalism at times (Which Incontrol is guilty of at times aswell I think) therefore I probably bias but I still think my point holds true. That being said I do not think it was wise of Incontrol to just drop that in the interview. Maybe Incontrol knows something we don't or has approached Tb from a different angle than the average viewer.
Though ultimately my point is that I feel like Tb hasn't put in the time and effort to actually to learn sc2 in depth at all. If you listen to him commentate, it just isn't intelligent and I feel like that he just gets by with his accent instead of putting the time and effort into learning the game and at least trying to be an intelligent and entertaining caster instead of just capitalizing on his diction, pronunciation and his flow. I just feel like casters have an obligation to know what they are talking about. And totalbiscuit just isn't putting forth that effort and maybe incontrol shares my sentiment.
But hell this is all speculation and i probably know only a quarter of the facts, but i do understand Incontrol's statement and where he is coming from.
nobody is saying he's a top quality caster, it's just that Incontrol actually compared him unfavourably to lindsey sporrer, the NASL interviewer girl, making a bunch of incorrect assumptions about TB's and Sporrer's intentions for being a part of the sc2.
and what is this about TB switching to SC2 and making money? like other people said, TB makes less money off of SC2 then WoW.
TB plays a bunch of video games, and yes, he's one of the lucky few who gets to do this for a living, but he's not in it for the money anymore than incontrol is in it for the money.
On July 15 2011 13:53 nozh wrote: i wish incontrol would give up his posting duties along with NASL and SotG to practice more.
That would maybe demonstrate this "passion" that I've heard so much about.
You have to be kidding me? He has been a part of the community for years, had enough passion to wake up, travel all over the US and promote a new league, take time from his own goals to win a championship to cast and do SOTG. Tell me how that isn't passion?
*does commercial for some sponsor* "guys. i know i haven't run any tournaments or put any of my own money into this, but TB doesn't deserve your respect because he came from wow." - incontrol, just now.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Team Liquid: Starcraft Non-discussion Forums
Guys........ I really don't think iNcontrol was serious about the whole TB comment. Give it a rest.
His replies have demonstrated that he was serious. No one thinks that he's going to murder the guy in his sleep, but it's not a joke either.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
That's one angle but what matters is mainly if it works or not. I'm quite sure a majority enjoy TB's casting, how does Lindsay compare?
Well some people obviously enjoy watching (Next?)Top Model and Miss USA on TV. However, dare I guess that "esports" fans generally belong to the group that if they watch those things the enjoyment they get from it is like the enjoyment they get from americas funniest home videos.
If most NASL viewers were 12 to 19 year old girls it might in fact have been a genius move. But in reality the few 12 to 19 year old girls that watch NASL probably mostly belong to the group of 12 to 19 year old girls that can't stand that stuff.
Lets be honest, how many here get more enjoyment from listening to for example her Josh South interview than lets say reading the text on the back of a shampoo bottle? I know what my answer would be, how can I be super nice without lying?
People could of course stay quiet about it for the sake of not hurting someones feelings(I find it highly unlikely that she reads these boards though). But for a lot of starcraft fans sc2 entertainment is not like miss usa or top model, it's serious business.
On July 15 2011 13:56 Torte de Lini wrote: This. He's withdrawn from both .___. He even stated that he's going to focus on his career more.
i mean he should take a page from tasteless' book and stop posting altogether.
I disagree. I enjoy iNcontrol's posts and his personality. If you read his posts back in BW, he was hilarious and still is, just has to watch his mouth of everyone's need to discipline.
On July 15 2011 13:18 iNcontroL wrote: Yes. Hence why I merely mentioned it and said I respect it "LESS" not that I HATE it or want to attack him etc...
TB is extremely critical of almost everything I do. I am critical of him trying to make money off of SC2... he isn't a bad guy and he does other things that are good. Please stop trying to make this more than what it is.
it now sounds personal
A lot of people come from different gaming scenes, like djWheat, Slasher who make contributions to the sc2 community
and then there are people who are just now getting into the gaming scene and see casting as a viable option/job; and you pick on TB? Atleast TB has a history with esports, where as a lot of the casters now don't and are just now only being heard of. And no, I don't have a problem with those kind of casters since it makes esports more legitimate that there are people seeing it as a career path sort of speak.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Guys........ I really don't think iNcontrol was serious about the whole TB comment. Give it a rest.
His replies have demonstrated that he was serious. No one thinks that he's going to murder the guy in his sleep, but it's not a joke either.
Big difference between a discussion and blatant bitching about some bad blood. What is there to discuss? How selfless one person in the community is over another? Go make a poll in another thread if you want to know that.
What discussion value has this thread had? One side is defending INcontrol for being a longstanding passionate member of TL and the other side is taking it like INcontrol is trying to flood the inbox of TB with hatemail. They don't hate each other so what exactly is there to discuss?
On July 15 2011 13:18 iNcontroL wrote: Yes. Hence why I merely mentioned it and said I respect it "LESS" not that I HATE it or want to attack him etc...
TB is extremely critical of almost everything I do. I am critical of him trying to make money off of SC2... he isn't a bad guy and he does other things that are good. Please stop trying to make this more than what it is.
No Geoff. You're making it something bigger than it really is! He's not critical of everything you do. Quit being so butt hurt over the past. The only one that ever instigates any of the further drama since that one SoTG episode has been you and idrA.
I behoove you to actually go watch TB's YouTube channel and see the work he does for the gaming community; not just Starcraft 2. TB has helped many indi developer games to take off due to his "WTF is ... " videos.
Not only that, when he streams SC2 100% of the ad revenue goes back to the players via his invitational tournament. Furthermore, SC2 is on the lower end of his video views on his YT channel. It would actually be smart if he stopped posting SC2 videos entirely in order to focus on other content which would gain more views. He has mentioned this multiple times... To say TB came into the SC2 community for the money is just down right ignorant Geoff, and you need to get rid of this butt hurt attitude towards TB. TB only does SC2 so he can fuel the growth of eSports, not for the money.
Again let me reiterate. It would be smarter for TB to drop doing SC2 entirely (money wise), then to keep producing the amount of content that he does now.
No offense Incontrol, but I would of done the same thing Totalbiscuit did. If you consider his personal situation a year ago, I think he did a smart decision by going this route. When life gets you hard, you have to make hard choices, even if you don't like them.
Nice, nice incontrol. So a caster, who gets quite a few gigs (DH, Assembly, Insomnia42, etc.), with at least a bit of knowledge about the game and the "who is who" of sc2, and has about 5 people as his fanbase is in here for the money, not only the money, he is after YOUR money. YOUR precious bucks, they are stolen, by this pesky little brat..brit I mean. PREPOSTEROUS.
But, of course, on the other hand we have Lindsey Sporrer, this icon of esports, who did her first gig on the SCBW launch event. Here we have her, this female DJWHEAT, with years of experience in esports, knowing the ins and outs, who is personally known with all the Who's, but also a wide array the "who's not yet". So here she is, this PATRON OF ESPORTS. She's not in for the money, because as we know, she donated everything she earned in esports events for the last 12 years (in which she did countless gigs)
Also nice to hear that you are not in for the money, but for something else, so everything you earn from esports from now on you'll donate, because you don't give a shit about the money. Oh that's so nice, organisations like Child's Play will be very happy.
Can't wait for you next article on the EG website, will it be "Why evolution is just a theory and always will be"?
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Team Liquid: Starcraft Non-discussion Forums
Guys........ I really don't think iNcontrol was serious about the whole TB comment. Give it a rest.
His replies have demonstrated that he was serious. No one thinks that he's going to murder the guy in his sleep, but it's not a joke either.
Big difference between a discussion and blatant bitching about some bad blood. What is there to discuss? How selfless one person in the community is over another? Go make a poll in another thread if you want to know that.
What discussion value has this thread had? One side is defending INcontrol for being a longstanding passionate member of TL and the other side is taking it like INcontrol is trying to flood the inbox of TB with hatemail. They don't hate each other so what exactly is there to discuss?
People think that if they post the exact same points multiple times but with slightly different things added to it each time, it makes their points stronger. iNcontroL made a mistake naming names, and I think he realizes that now but it's a bit too late to change anything lol
While the interview was good, incontrol has been consistently an unfair asshole towards TB. Not a huge TB fan, but accusing him of money grubbing is just a shit statement.
On July 15 2011 13:56 EnderCraft wrote: Guys........ I really don't think iNcontrol was serious about the whole TB comment. Give it a rest.
So it was the worst joke ever, and then he attempted to justify it as though he was serious just to troll us all?
I think the fact is it was just a misspoken or poorly reasoned comment, and afterwards iNcontroL didn't have the humility to just admit that and take it back, and instead tried to defend it and made himself look pretty dumb by doing so. :/
I have a huge interest in anything Blizzard does and I adore RTS. One of the games I played a massive amount of as a kid was Dune 2, plus I was a big Westwood fanboi to the point where I own every game they released. My interest in Blizzard RTS was actually more of an accident than anything else. When I was younger the computer we had at home was a RISC OS ARM-based machine, not an IBM-PC compatible. I was very limited in terms of the kind of games I could play on it but one of the ones that did work, was Warcraft 2. I played so much of that game, beat the campaigns over and over, made my own custom maps to play, mucked about with stats and things like that (and ruined the balance in the process, but I was a kid). While I've much prefered the Warcraft universe because I was introduced to it earlier, I viewed Starcraft 2 as a chance to get onboard something I'd really missed out on when I was younger. There's no question that it will be the dominant eSport. What's it's competition? Certainly not Black Ops or Halo. PC games have much more longevity than console titles in almost all respects, the dominant eSport will be a PC eSport. The only thing really comparable are fighting games.
I don't think you can really fault him for not playing SC1 when it came out because he didn't have a computer that could run it. Nor can you fault him for moving on with other games afterwards.
On July 15 2011 13:40 Jesushooves wrote: "I think in order for Starcraft and e-sports in general to continue growing it’s important to break away from the mold of thinking we need Artosis for instance at every event doing every interview-"
I completely disagree with this statement, sure we don't need someone who pretty much lives and breathes starcraft, like artosis, but someone like Lindsey wont understand the extremely detailed concepts of starcraft, and that will always be extremely obvious. An example of a question from someone who obviously knows a thing or two about starcraft is: MLG: Zerg as a whole did very well in Columbus, taking five of the Top 8 spots. You've been very open with your criticism of Zerg being the weakest race for the majority of SC2's lifespan; do you feel like the results in Columbus were an anomaly, or that Zergs have begun to solidify timings and regain control of the various matchups?
Keep in mind I'm not saying Lindsey is stupid, but she would never ask a question like that unless she was the type of person that will regularily ladder and/or watch streams, and it will always be obvious in the interviews when the interviewer isn't involved in starcraft.
Lindsay was there as eye candy; pretty simple. She was something great to look at while getting the general impression of the crowd/players. All he is saying that people need to be a little more open minded; the commentary can still be good if it isn't tastosis - there are people that can produce great content besides the marquee names. There are community members who fell into a fit of rage when tastosis wasn't casting the finals.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
Would you coach for free? Why did I have to pay $25 for an NASL then?
Your argument doesn't make sense. Doesn't matter if you are making money as long as you are contributing and promoting the game.
Please try and read what I said.. in this thread and the interview. I said I "take more offense" and then I explained (in this thread) that that does not equate to hating him or thinking he is scum. I even recognize that he has done good, which he has and it benefits us all. I merely said he moved to SC2 from WoW purely to make money and I respected that LESS than being hired from an agent to host in a league.
THAT_WAS_IT
now I don't wanna spam this thread with my defense. Nobody is bringing anything up new. They are attacking my coaching and saying TB does more than I do. Fine, that is all acceptable for you to argue. But please try and take a deep breath and read what I said because I don't have some huge pent up TB rage and if you have huge pent up iNc rage then that kinda sucks >_<
What exactly is to be respected about Lindsey taking a interviewing gig for money? If anything it seems like Lindsey is using this opportunity to further her career since she had never even watched a game of starcraft (from her own mouth) prior to NASL. Not to hate on TB or Lindsey but I am only bringing her up because you did so first.
Why would you take offense with someone coming from a different game and contributing to the community? It's meaningless if they make money or not, only thing that matters is whether they deliver quality content or not. It's like saying you take offense with Razer making Starcraft 2 gear. And why would ex-bw players be more entitled to make money with SC2 than other people who discovered Starcraft later? This makes no sense!!! Obviously InControl likes drama, there's no other way to explain it.
On July 15 2011 13:53 nozh wrote: i wish incontrol would give up his posting duties along with NASL and SotG to practice more.
He isn't on SOTG anymore and has withdrawn as a full time caster from NASL. I don't know if you have been living under a rock or not.
Learn to read.
Hey bennyaus I don't know why you said learn to read like an ass to nozh when he made a completely legitimate statement. Maybe its because you think the original post implies that incontrol didn't leave nasl or sotg to practice. But if it did have that implication and nozh interpreted it wrong than the verb "would give up" would be "gave up". So maybe you need to learn grammar or better yet just stop posting on TL because both your posts have been ignorant and just plain stupid on this thread.
Sure seems to me to be much ado about much of nothing. I honestly think you (InC) are doing a disservice to yourself engaging in the conversation, especially this quickly derailing thread; let the interview be enough (although I know it's just too damn hard not to respond to such hogwash sometimes). Most people on TL that respond to these discussions (that I've experienced) are so damn overly entitled and foolishly critical just for the sake of it. Sometimes I just think they get their rocks off by having someone respond to them on the interwebz, especially a well-knowner like you (InC).
My advice would be simple: Sift through the trash and choose the best, well thought and constructed criticism and address it for next season. I pretty much think that's what you said you were going to do in your interview.
I think Incontrol is just unaware of the overall gaming community as a whole. He sees TB as somebody who leeches off these individual communities, when in reality TB, and we all are part of this greater gaming community that gathers around all games.
The fix would be a visit to giantbomb.com, and watch the Deadly Warrior: Legends quicklook and have a good laugh
On July 15 2011 13:53 nozh wrote: i wish incontrol would give up his posting duties along with NASL and SotG to practice more.
He isn't on SOTG anymore and has withdrawn as a full time caster from NASL. I don't know if you have been living under a rock or not.
Learn to read.
Hey bennyaus I don't know why you said learn to read like an ass to nozh when he made a completely legitimate statement. Maybe its because you think the original post implies that incontrol didn't leave nasl or sotg to practice. But if it did have that implication and nozh interpreted it wrong than the verb "would give up" would be "gave up". So maybe you need to learn grammar or better yet just stop posting on TL because both your posts have been ignorant and just plain stupid on this thread.
bennyaus was saying learn to read to Demonace34 because Demonace34 didn't understand what nozh wrote.
nozh was putting in a dig at incontrol saying that he should stop posting on the forums and just play the game. Demonace34 just ignored that and called him a dumbdumb for not knowning that he gave up NASL and SotG, even though nozh is fully aware of that fact.
On July 15 2011 14:13 tmtx wrote: Why would you take offense with someone coming from a different game and contributing to the community? It's meaningless if they make money or not, only thing that matters is whether they deliver quality content or not. It's like saying you take offense with Razer making Starcraft 2 gear. And why would ex-bw players be more entitled to make money with SC2 than other people who discovered Starcraft later? This makes no sense!!! Obviously InControl likes drama, there's no other way to explain it.
I believe it's personal, it just doesn't make sense if he says it is not because there are plenty of people involved with sc2 now that come from different gaming backgrounds/scenes. Some people just like esports in general, like DjWheat. There are even people who have no merits in esports who try to do so in sc2 that he could have called out that seem more reasonable to do so than TB. Even if TB came from a WoW background and has a following from that, it can be good for making this scene bigger.
People are making a mountain out of a molehill. I think the fact that Incontrol thinks the NASL delays were comparable with other events when from the spectator PoV they clearly weren't is a more interesting topic than his personal opinions about community figures.
It's more about his view on Totalbiscuit going into Starcraft 2 as a business venture when at the same time the NASL and gosucoaching are business ventures as well.
Whether you love the game and make it into a business or make a business and love it, it's all the same at the end.
On July 15 2011 13:40 Jesushooves wrote: "I think in order for Starcraft and e-sports in general to continue growing it’s important to break away from the mold of thinking we need Artosis for instance at every event doing every interview-"
I completely disagree with this statement, sure we don't need someone who pretty much lives and breathes starcraft, like artosis, but someone like Lindsey wont understand the extremely detailed concepts of starcraft, and that will always be extremely obvious. An example of a question from someone who obviously knows a thing or two about starcraft is: MLG: Zerg as a whole did very well in Columbus, taking five of the Top 8 spots. You've been very open with your criticism of Zerg being the weakest race for the majority of SC2's lifespan; do you feel like the results in Columbus were an anomaly, or that Zergs have begun to solidify timings and regain control of the various matchups?
Keep in mind I'm not saying Lindsey is stupid, but she would never ask a question like that unless she was the type of person that will regularily ladder and/or watch streams, and it will always be obvious in the interviews when the interviewer isn't involved in starcraft.
Lindsay was there as eye candy; pretty simple. She was something great to look at while getting the general impression of the crowd/players. All he is saying that people need to be a little more open minded; the commentary can still be good if it isn't tastosis - there are people that can produce great content besides the marquee names. There are community members who fell into a fit of rage when tastosis wasn't casting the finals.
He wasn't talking about the finals in that quote, he was talking about the interviewer, I'm saying you need someone that knows about the game to be interviewing people, even if it is someone like anna who plays sc2 and I imagine from dating incontrol knows a lot about the scene. Someone like Lindsey wont even have that knowledge and as such wont make a decent interviewer.
In the end, it just makes Incontrol sound like one of those douchebag hipsters who can never quite accept the fact that the artist or sport he liked when it wasnt popular now has a bunch of new fans who have only come because they released something new. Or like a soccer fan who hates the world cup because then everyone pays attention but they havent been there the rest of the time.
God forbid the thing you like becomes- *GASP* -popular and you arent the only guy who has a following anymore. How can we fault someone for saying, "Hey, this is pretty popular, there must be something behind that" and then going to check it out. If you limit the people you have respect for to the people who started when BW was first released you just eliminated 99.9999999999% of Teamliquid.
But you have more respect from someone who probably never heard of starcraft before her agent signed her up because "she wants to get into it and do it right" as opposed to the shoutcaster with a youtoube channel full of sc2 casts. Oh, but its because "he came from another game that used to be more popular than the game that I played and DREAMED of being as popular, so now that the roles are reversed Im just going to dump on the guy for switching over to follow his audience."
It's fine, he has his opinions, and he doesn't really have to defend himself. This has more of a shock since he's a notable figure in the community. It's just that some of us don't really fully understand his logic with all of his statements combined in that interview.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
Yeah, I don't understand this comment either. TotalBiscuit has given way more to the StarCraft II community than he has taken from it. He has sponsored showmatches and tournaments out of his own pocket in the past and he plans on continuing this by using the money he is generating from his stream.to sponsor even more events.
Also, the comment after that about Lindsey doing the NASL event because she's "doing what she enjoys" and not because "she's looking to get rich" is equally as strange. It's pretty clear she did the event because she thought she could make a quick buck out of it. Isn't this exactly the type of thing that iNcontroL takes offense to? People coming from a non StarCraft related background and making money out of StarCraft II?
Such weird comments man...
Except Lindsey was hired by the NASL, so not sure how that fits with iNcontrol's offense?
Lindsey is doing StarCraft II stuff because she sees an opportunity to make money. iNcontroL finds it offensive when someone from a non SC related background gets money doing StarCraft II things. Lindsey is essentially earning money doing just that by working for NASL hence iNcontroL should be offended by her as well.
So, Total Biscuit has been a presence in esports for years and is now doing tons of work to promote StarCraft 2 in the outside world and he is giving back to the existing community, but he is just in it for the money and what he does is not as good as what Lindsey Sporrer does.
Lindsey "ZvG" "Is this your first NASL event?" Sporrer, who is coming from beauty pagents, knows nothing about SC2 or esports, and got paid to do interviews at one event, and is in it for...what? Her love of the game? And what she is doing is better than what Total Biscuit is doing?
Now, I am not a Total Biscuit fan - in fact, I make it a point try and avoid watching any game that he casts - however, in the words of the illustrious Bill Cosby, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Also, "The downtime is not irregular or unique to the NASL at all."? That has to be the most out of touch thing I have ever heard. There was probably more downtime than there was gametime and I don't even think that is an exaggeration.
On July 15 2011 12:05 ELA wrote: I really don't understand his broadside against Totalbiscuit however.. Geoff has time and time again said that the 'trolling' between Totalbiscuit and himself was just evil rumors and people looking for drama.. Well, if you make a comment like: "I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit" you are basicly going for the throat of the man.. Previous statements become quite hollow..
This is pretty much the modus operandi of Incontrol. The man is filled with a lot of hate. He's been doing this kind of stuff for a very long time now.
The prime example is many months ago when he name-dropped SeleCT on a SOTG. When people got angry, he claimed that they were taking things too seriously, that he never meant to diss SeleCT, and that it was all just evil rumors made up by angry nerd flamers on the forums.
Annnnnnnnd then when asked about SeleCT in a MLG after-party hosted by DJWheat , Incontrol proceeds to simulate anal rape by forming a ring shape with one hand and shoving his other fist through it. In front of a 10,000+ live audience.
lol i feel bad for incontroll, he sure didn't make many fans from this interview. imo his disdain for totalbiscuit is misdirected and they need to have a heart to heart with eachother to get the bad blood out of the way.^^ make love not war!!
Holy shit people. Holy shit. How can you seriously pick one thing from the entire interview and kill the guy for it? incontrol already said that he doesnt hate TB he just respects him LESS. Thats his opinion so why the fuck do you guys care? Too many people are making this a black and white issue: either incontrol hates or absolutely loves something. This is CLEARLY not the case but I have no clue why people keep rambling on about this TB comment. Its an opinon. I love incontrol because of his opinions and his passion. Yeah he got paid for nasl and coaching, but its not like getting paid = no passion and passion = not getting paid. Thats retarded. I hope people will stop bashing on other people for every grammar/spelling/esports mistake, because i bet you we can make fun of you for your opinons and mistakes.
P.S. Oh yeah and people take incontrol WAY too seriously most of the time. He likes to be funny, and almost always he apologizes or explains any inflamatory statement or joke he says but people never seem to listen to them...
Good interview but I don't agree with the "let's do some though questions part" because they ignored many of the most important flaws. NASL has fucked up so much over the entire season, First week was crap, week 2-5 was meaningless and onesided except for a rare amount of good games, VOD system is still crap, finals day one was a joke, downtime day 2-3 was still huge.
There are too many matches in the NASL to watch it all live, there are too many crap matches in the NASL to watch it live. Why the fuck is the VOD system so bad? All games in 1 video (spoil much?), and the games are uploaded way to late. Sometimes more than 2 days after they were played.
On July 15 2011 15:25 Malgrif wrote: lol i feel bad for incontroll, he sure didn't make many fans from this interview. imo his disdain for totalbiscuit is misdirected and they need to have a heart to heart with eachother to get the bad blood out of the way.^^ make love not war!!
Why he incessantly persists on making these personal jabs is beyond me.. What is he even trying to add to his his argument by throwing TB in there? It doesn't even make sense! And when responding about the criticism of "forum flamers", he essentially contradicts his very own argument by making a cheap jab at TB (whether intentional or not) later on in the interview.
I take offense to all pro gamers who came from non sc games like warcraft 3 or supreme commander. They're all in it for the money with no sc background!!
Also take offense to casters with no sc background like djwheat and jp. They're in it for the money too!!
Too many passionless sc guys to name who just jumped on the sc2 money train!
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
dead wrong here. just to undercut this argument at its root....
money is the root of all good... productive effort gives money its value to "make" money is a noble pursuit in and of itself... if you do not understand this you do not understand the nature of money or the basis of the free market system
Frank Pierce left electrical engineering to make games.. has made a pile of cash .. more than he ever could as an electrical engineer and his name is all over SC2.
its clear TotalBiscuit enjoys broadcasting in all its forms... simply for the social aspect of creating connections with the community regardless of the topic... the guy is a communicator right down to his DNA.
if you are a broadcaster or journalist by profession you can move from one area to another and bring your unique skill set to the table and thus contribute to the eSports community... to the special Olympics community or whatever event you choose.
Wtf is incontrol thinking about? All incontrol has been talking about these last months is that we should never swear or be anything else than boring while being active in the sc2 esports scene because we need to make SC2 open for business, and then he wildly attacks totalbisquit for taking the opportunity to have his passion as his job?
I suppose incontrol does not get paid for the work he does in sc2?
I'm done with this guy, what a self-righteous fucking hypocrite.
On July 15 2011 15:25 Malgrif wrote: lol i feel bad for incontroll, he sure didn't make many fans from this interview. imo his disdain for totalbiscuit is misdirected and they need to have a heart to heart with eachother to get the bad blood out of the way.^^ make love not war!!
Why he incessantly persists on making these personal jabs is beyond me.. What is he even trying to add to his his argument by throwing TB in there? It doesn't even make sense! And when responding about the criticism of "forum flamers", he essentially contradicts his very own argument by making a cheap jab at TB (whether intentional or not) later on in the interview.
This is also my stance, and why I don't like him, especially when he tries to show his "figurehead of the community" side. I do think that he has done well, and I will respect him as a player after his MLG showing, but as a person I hesitate to.
But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism, or who they respect, when those things are pushed too far you risk becoming just some anonymous flamer on a forum.
– By Incontrol in the interview
The TB jab isn't the first I've heard from him. There was the jab at SeleCT, which a poster above me pointed out. Then there is his long-standing hate for desRow, which I don't understand. I think that he needs to get over his petty differences with others, but I can't make him do anything, but he should take his own advice and realize that just because he isn't typing something out that the advice becomes invalid.
On the topic of the interview itself, I think that the interview was OK. He answered some questions, tried to dodge on others and I think downplayed some of the severity of the problems by attributing it to random forum flamers, but I think the interviewer had some nice questions that he tried to get answered.
On July 15 2011 15:48 Ghad wrote: Wtf is incontrol thinking about? All incontrol has been talking about these last months is that we should never swear or be anything else than boring while being active in the sc2 esports scene because we need to make SC2 open for business, and then he wildly attacks totalbisquit for taking the opportunity to have his passion as his job?
I suppose incontrol does not get paid for the work he does in sc2?
I'm done with this guy, what a self-righteous fucking hypocrite.
Yeah those finals fucking kicked ass, I know. I agree, I'm happy inC worked diligently organizing this cluster fuck, it turned out amazing you're right!
love you guys Don't worry! I will def say stuff in the future you guys will get all pissy about. It's kinda inevitable.. but the world keeps on moving forward and I learn each time to dial it back. Name dropping was bad. Point I made was fine. Lesson learned!
Commenting on TB was really dumb but the rest of the interview was totally on point, so I love you anyways. <3 Mr. Robinson
So you really feel that this:
The downtime is not irregular or unique to the NASL at all. There was air time during Homestory Cup III of players barbecuing, there’s MLG where I can go take a nap between my matches--that’s all just the usual run of things.
is point on? Either he is dodging like a ninja or he is really that self-absorbed that he thinks him being able to take naps somehow translates into down time for the spectators.
The question that came out of this interview for me was: When was Sporrer hired for the NASL job?
Because, unless she was literally hired at the last minute for this gig, Incontrol's comment:
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
is complete nonsense because she clearly WASN'T dedicated to doing it well considering how hard she fucked up and how obvious her lack of knowledge of the game was. Assuming she was given sufficient time, if she was actually dedicated to doing it well, she would have done a loooooooooooot more preparation for the job and wouldn't have come out of it looking completely clueless (and inc's comments would have had a bit more clout).
The downtime is not irregular or unique to the NASL at all. There was air time during Homestory Cup III of players barbecuing, there’s MLG where I can go take a nap between my matches--that’s all just the usual run of things.
is point on? Either he is dodging like a ninja or he is really that self-absorbed that he thinks him being able to take naps somehow translates into down time for the spectators.
Probably me being self absorbed.. sorry I am not answering everything everyone is asking!
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
is complete nonsense because she clearly WASN'T dedicated to doing it well considering how hard she fucked up and how obvious her lack of knowledge of the game was. Assuming she was given sufficient time, if she was actually dedicated to doing it well, she would have done a loooooooooooot more preparation for the job and wouldn't have come out of it looking completely clueless (and inc's comments would have had a bit more clout).
Someone tweeted (I think AskJoshy?) that she was reading up on starcraft on her ipad after she did the interviews so the next ones would be better.
On July 15 2011 16:01 iNcontroL wrote: love you guys Don't worry! I will def say stuff in the future you guys will get all pissy about. It's kinda inevitable.. but the world keeps on moving forward and I learn each time to dial it back. Name dropping was bad. Point I made was fine. Lesson learned!
The point you made is totally invalid, dude. Why the hell should you be offended because people migrate towards sc2 because there is money there, when all you have been talking about is getting money into the scene, to the point where you can't even tolerate fresh language on a private stream?
Also, totalbisquit probably makes more money of his WoW content than he ever will of his sc2 stuff, so the whole jab was just totally of the mark.
Your drama, blunders, namedroppings and whatever I have enjoyed, this fucking self-righteousness is too much to stand.
On July 15 2011 16:05 Brett wrote: The question that came out of this interview for me was: When was Sporrer hired for the NASL job?
Because, unless she was literally hired at the last minute for this gig, Incontrol's comment:
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
is complete nonsense because she clearly WASN'T dedicated to doing it well considering how hard she fucked up and how obvious her lack of knowledge of the game was. Assuming she was given sufficient time, if she was actually dedicated to doing it well, she would have done a loooooooooooot more preparation for the job and wouldn't have come out of it looking completely clueless (and inc's comments would have had a bit more clout).
Someone tweeted (I think AskJoshy?) that she was reading up on starcraft on her ipad after she did the interviews.
That sir is hardcore dedication. Trololol.
Good for her. She responded to the criticism. She had to if she had any sense. It just means that if she WAS given an appropriate amount of time to prepare, then she's not a complete idiot.
The professional move would be to prepare BEFORE the job, not during or after the job as the criticism flies in.
Of course, if she was called in for the gig the day before, then it's the organisation's fault, not hers.
Commenting on TB was really dumb but the rest of the interview was totally on point, so I love you anyways. <3 Mr. Robinson
So you really feel that this:
The downtime is not irregular or unique to the NASL at all. There was air time during Homestory Cup III of players barbecuing, there’s MLG where I can go take a nap between my matches--that’s all just the usual run of things.
is point on? Either he is dodging like a ninja or he is really that self-absorbed that he thinks him being able to take naps somehow translates into down time for the spectators.
Probably me being self absorbed.. sorry I am not answering everything everyone is asking!
You're claiming you made a fine point , but do you mind explaining it a little better? What irks you so much about people like TB entering the SC2 scene? Do you honestly think they just see it as a money opportunity for them? TB has said multiple times that he would be better off not producing SC2 content (money wise), and yet you claim that it's his primary reason for getting into this scene. Don't you think his statement kind of contradicts your argument?
Edit: You make it hard for me to stay a fan inc. I think your a hilarious guy to listen too and have a very entertaining personality. It's just the consistency in which you make comments like these that really bothers me. I know you guys had a little scrum after that one state of the game. But is it really smart to harp on what was really just a miscommunication to begin with (when this drama really started). It's pretty silly
guys guys guys hold on let me explain; incontrol does all this jetsetting around the world for sponsors and commercials and coaching For The Love Of The Game. he would do it for free if he had to. people like totalbiscuit... man... how shallow. creating content for and interest in the industry for profit... that is so totally "less awesome" than what he and other e-sports lovers like lindsey sporrer do.
please tell me more about how much you do for the community out of the kindness of your heart and not for money at all.
I remember when incontrol was a BW player. Too bad he switched to a different game just for the money. I don't think he's a giant tool or anything, I just respect him less.
Commenting on TB was really dumb but the rest of the interview was totally on point, so I love you anyways. <3 Mr. Robinson
So you really feel that this:
The downtime is not irregular or unique to the NASL at all. There was air time during Homestory Cup III of players barbecuing, there’s MLG where I can go take a nap between my matches--that’s all just the usual run of things.
is point on? Either he is dodging like a ninja or he is really that self-absorbed that he thinks him being able to take naps somehow translates into down time for the spectators.
Probably me being self absorbed.. sorry I am not answering everything everyone is asking!
You really should try out the tasteless build and just stop replying on forums when you know it will instigate more flames. Just admit it was a stupid thing to say, because it was, and be done with it. Simple~
On July 15 2011 16:20 longdivision wrote: I remember when incontrol was a BW player. Too bad he switched to a different game just for the money. I don't think he's a giant tool or anything, I just respect him less.
Of all the foreign bw pros that switched to sc2, I actually think iNcontroL is one of few players who like sc2 better than bw.
Incontrol, I don't even like TB, but you honestly just lost a fan. I don't know if your duplicity is calculated or just a side effect of near-pathological rationalization, but you just come off as a petty and narcissistic person lately.
You accusing people of monetizing SC2 is not stone throwing in a glass house, it's firing a trebuchet inside the Louvre pyramid. Please think before you speak next time.
Inc is offended by people who come in "just for the money"?
Coming to sc2 just to look pretty ( no offense lindsay i still love you ) and getting paid for it is better than a caster who helps sc2 grow, gets money as a reward and then puts some of it back into sc2 community ?
Or is Inc saying that calculating money from sc2 is worse than getting it beforehand?
I did read Inc´s posts here, but instead of explaining his post he just said that in truth he did not mean shit and it was just poor wording? Not much of an explanation.
I'm a pretty big fan Geoff but I don't understand your comment on TB or your posts in this thread. To say TB switched to SC content to make money is terribly misinformed. TB's views on his WoW videos got way more views then the SC stuff he does. He's said it a million times that he knows the majority of his subscribers don't care for SC but he posts it because he enjoys it and knows others do as well. It makes no sense to say he is in it for the money. If he were in it for the money would he not still be doing Azeroth Daily which made him way more then his SC stuff?
You respect a guy less because he got into somthing new that he enjoys and now he is profiting from the great content he produces? That's like saying you respect a guy who takes a job that pays less but he does it because he enjoys it. I really wish you would have thought before you called a guy out like that.
TB is a great guy for the community giving back to the community with self funded tournaments and bringing many new people to the scene. I got into esports because of TBs shoutcraft show matches in the beta.
I feel bad for iNc here :/ Like others are saying, it was a great interview other than that one line on TB. I was kinda upset cause I like TB, but I really don't think iNcontrol meant anything harmful by it. Just ignore the one line, accept that he has learned his lesson about naming specific people, and move on.
TB himself hasn't said anything about it yet, and we know if TB was offended he would make sure we knew as well. So if TB is upset, nobody else should be either
On July 15 2011 15:12 SK.Testie wrote: Damn good responses, nice interview.
My thoughts exactly.
Really nice job by the interviewer, and even if his answers upset you, you should at least appreciate how open and thorough iNcontroL was with his answers. There are worse things than being too forthright.
EDIT: And I disagree 100% with his stance on TB/Lindsay, but I'm still glad he gave it.
On July 15 2011 16:16 nozh wrote: guys guys guys hold on let me explain; incontrol does all this jetsetting around the world for sponsors and commercials and coaching For The Love Of The Game. he would do it for free if he had to. people like totalbiscuit... man... how shallow. creating content for and interest in the industry for profit... that is so totally "less awesome" than what he and other e-sports lovers like lindsey sporrer do.
please tell me more about how much you do for the community out of the kindness of your heart and not for money at all.
he's such a kind man, does everything out of the goodness of his heart.
just look at where the guy was a little over a year ago. fast forward to 5:50 where he talks about his job at the time.
he was just some schmuck working at a Gamestop at the local mall
and look at where where he is now, flying all over the world doing commercials for sponsors and shit! and purely out of the kindness of his heart!!! totally not for monetary reasons, no sir!
On July 15 2011 12:52 fadestep wrote: Pretty dumb of Incontrol to bring up TotalBiscuit like he did. Draws attention away from everything else he said well and makes the conversation instead revolve around some stupid drama instead.
On July 15 2011 16:01 iNcontroL wrote: love you guys Don't worry! I will def say stuff in the future you guys will get all pissy about. It's kinda inevitable.. but the world keeps on moving forward and I learn each time to dial it back. Name dropping was bad. Point I made was fine. Lesson learned!
The fact that you still believe that your point was fine, after all the comments showing how it was not at all, makes you look even more like a tool.
On July 15 2011 12:52 fadestep wrote: Pretty dumb of Incontrol to bring up TotalBiscuit like he did. Draws attention away from everything else he said well and makes the conversation instead revolve around some stupid drama instead.
It was a good interview otherwise.
Well, calling Tyler one of the worst players in the NASL when he did better than Inc himself was kind of questionable as well.
On July 15 2011 15:12 SK.Testie wrote: Damn good responses, nice interview.
My thoughts exactly.
Really nice job by the interviewer, and even if his answers upset you, you should at least appreciate how open and thorough iNcontroL was with his answers. There are worse things than being too forthright.
EDIT: And I disagree 100% with his stance on TB/Lindsay, but I'm still glad he gave it.
It is a shame that such an insightful interview was undermined by a single line. However, the TB thing was pretty much out of left field, and I still honestly don't get the point he was trying to make by using him as an example. The only thing I got out of that answer was that he is under the impression that people like TB, who come from outside the SC community, saw it only as a monetary opportunity. I just feel it's a weak argument based on the example he gave. As an "outsider", TB actually lost a portion of his audience by choosing to produce content for the SC2 community.
On July 15 2011 12:52 fadestep wrote: Pretty dumb of Incontrol to bring up TotalBiscuit like he did. Draws attention away from everything else he said well and makes the conversation instead revolve around some stupid drama instead.
It was a good interview otherwise.
Well, calling Tyler one of the worst players in the NASL when he did better than Inc himself was kind of questionable as well.
Well, not to support the argument one way or the other, it should be pointed out that iNcontroL was 4-5 (beating Ensnare, Cruncher, QXC, and White-Ra) and Tyler was 3-6 (beating PainUser, Drewbie, and Cloud)
On July 15 2011 12:52 fadestep wrote: Pretty dumb of Incontrol to bring up TotalBiscuit like he did. Draws attention away from everything else he said well and makes the conversation instead revolve around some stupid drama instead.
It was a good interview otherwise.
Well, calling Tyler one of the worst players in the NASL when he did better than Inc himself was kind of questionable as well.
Well, not to support the argument one way or the other, it should be pointed out that iNcontroL was 4-5 (beating Ensnare, Cruncher, QXC, and White-Ra) and Tyler was 3-6 (beating PainUser, Drewbie, and Cloud)
Tyler was 7th in his group, Inc was 8th in his group. If anything, they placed equally low. Whether it's true or not, it's just kind of untoward to name drop like that, using language like that.
"One of the worst players" is a far cry from something more diplomatic, like "didn't get as far as expected, but then again, neither did I".
Ok, so what if TotalBiscuit came to SC2 for money....? T hat's like saying SC:BW Pros came to SC2 for money and that's ridiculous. You even had TotalBiscuit cast for NASL, was that some scheme to make him look like a fool? Obviously not... because you used him for the Top 10 plays of the week, even TotalBiscuit has his strong points.
It seems Dickish to put someones name out on the spot like that what about other people that came out of the blue during SC2 someone like JP? He's great for E-sports and all, but really do you think his incentive was to do all this for no money? I'm sure he knew SC2 was gonna be big or was big already and decided to become involved with this fabulous game.
Starcraft won't grow if you can't even get along with your fellow Starcraft 2 mates and why bash them? Look at all the crap the SlayerS team is getting right now for the new recruit, its bullcrap... Do you want SC2 to be a strictly Male-only game? I don't care if you're a model, or you terribly suck at the game, we all have the same incentive on these forums.... And that's to make E-sports grow, but together!
Another point to add: All of a sudden you're not allowed to be involved with SC2 because you haven't been involved from the start? So much bullshit.
Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but really, bringing up TB for no reason?
It is pretty widely known (hes said himself) that TB's least popular "segment" is Starcraft 2 and that he makes the LEAST amount of money from covering and doing it, as compared to things like WoW and other games he reviews.
How in the world is that him switching to SC2 for the money?
Who is Incontrol to say that he doesn't have a love for the game? You respect him less because he switched for MONEY?
ESPORTS...for money? Normally a big fan of ya Incontrol but no need to single out TB like that for an incorrect reason.
Besides the name dropping that was kinda... well not the smartest thing to do. I dont understand the not liking people from other sports. I mean, we want this to grow. We want this to be huge. Why would it be a bad thing that SCII attracts talent/knowledge from out side of the 'old' scene.
On July 15 2011 17:01 betaV1.25 wrote: Besides the name dropping that was kinda... well not the smartest thing to do. I dont understand the not liking people from other sports. I mean, we want this to grow. We want this to be huge. Why would it be a bad thing that SCII attracts talent/knowledge from out side of the 'old' scene.
can somebody explain this for me please?
Its a bad thing when Incontrol has a personal beef with you. Or when you are not a hot blonde.
The jab at Tyler was one of the most asinine accusations I've read in a while, especially in a league that was invite only and had players like Artosis and Grubby
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Let's read something he said earlier in the same interview.. something like
But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism, or who they respect, when those things are pushed too far you risk becoming just some anonymous flamer on a forum.
On July 15 2011 13:46 FabledIntegral wrote: I thought Lindsay Sporrer added some nice eye candy. I also found her questions amusing to say the least. Down with the haters!
Actually this is the first time I heard people had beef with the interviewer. Really? Does everyone working in SC2 has to have this BURNING HOT PASSION FOR SC2? It's like... no you can't clean my NASL toilets unless you're diamond league at the minimum haha.
Wow a pretty face was hired to ask some questions anyone could ask. What's the big deal again?
On July 15 2011 13:46 FabledIntegral wrote: I thought Lindsay Sporrer added some nice eye candy. I also found her questions amusing to say the least. Down with the haters!
Actually this is the first time I heard people had beef with the interviewer. Really? Does everyone working in SC2 has to have this BURNING HOT PASSION FOR SC2? It's like... no you can't clean my NASL toilets unless you're diamond league at the minimum haha.
Wow a pretty face was hired to ask some questions anyone could ask. What's the big deal again?
Apparently, because that's the deal for TotalBiscuit because he wasn't there from the start... So why bash him? Same for Lindsay... Let TotalBiscuit please the part of the community that likes him and let the others please the other parts of the community.
You did a great job Geoff, not only during the finals but also the casting in the months before. These days I really miss watching my daily Nasl vods =)
TotalBiscuit does a ton for the SC2 community, why would Geoff attack him like this? He streams often, and hosts tournaments with the money he gets from his stream. He also casts a lot of SC2 matches at tourneys. He doesn't even have to do SC2 at all if he wanted money. Doesn't he get way more money from his World of Warcraft videos anyway? He could just give up SC2 completely to make more money, but he obviously likes the game and the community.
On July 15 2011 12:52 fadestep wrote: Pretty dumb of Incontrol to bring up TotalBiscuit like he did. Draws attention away from everything else he said well and makes the conversation instead revolve around some stupid drama instead.
It was a good interview otherwise.
Well, calling Tyler one of the worst players in the NASL when he did better than Inc himself was kind of questionable as well.
Tyler didn't do that well though... maybe you have issue with the word choice.
a move toward having a female identity and presence that’s anything more than just a pretty face and that was an intelligent decisio
To be fair, that's all she was. I'd love if it was something more, and maybe it will be in the future, but... Personally the whole lindsey part is very... odd.
On July 15 2011 13:46 FabledIntegral wrote: I thought Lindsay Sporrer added some nice eye candy. I also found her questions amusing to say the least. Down with the haters!
Actually this is the first time I heard people had beef with the interviewer. Really? Does everyone working in SC2 has to have this BURNING HOT PASSION FOR SC2? It's like... no you can't clean my NASL toilets unless you're diamond league at the minimum haha.
Wow a pretty face was hired to ask some questions anyone could ask. What's the big deal again?
when the pretty face comments about the ZvG matchup, it becomes insulting to the community
the fault has more to do with NASL's decision and subsequent lack of follow up to provide some basic training/introduction to SC2 for Lindsey though
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
WTF? TotalBiscuit casting SC2 for money? He used to have a huge money problem and is probably still affected by it, yet he takes the time to cast SC2 even though he gets much more money with WoW and could probably find a job that pays more than what he most likely gets from SC2. I really, really like iNcontroL, but I don't think he should have said such a thing against TotalBiscuit.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
Oh come one. I don't like Inc at all (in fact, he's insulted me on stream before) but this isn't really something to dock him for. For starters you do not know if Day9, Artosis, etc. actually cast for free. I suspect they don't. The same goes for Inc -- people need to make a living.
Yeah, his calling out TB was stupid but your calling out him is pretty much equally dumb.
On July 15 2011 13:46 FabledIntegral wrote: I thought Lindsay Sporrer added some nice eye candy. I also found her questions amusing to say the least. Down with the haters!
Actually this is the first time I heard people had beef with the interviewer. Really? Does everyone working in SC2 has to have this BURNING HOT PASSION FOR SC2? It's like... no you can't clean my NASL toilets unless you're diamond league at the minimum haha.
Wow a pretty face was hired to ask some questions anyone could ask. What's the big deal again?
when the pretty face comments about the ZvG matchup, it becomes insulting to the community
the fault has more to do with NASL's decision and subsequent lack of follow up to provide some basic training/introduction to SC2 for Lindsey though
Aye, I mean she doesn't need to be diamond or anything to do interviews, but she most certainly does need to have some basics of the game down. I personally am always a bit scared when girls enter the fray in gaming enviroment, since the people handling the events always pigeonhole gamers as having the perspective "pretty girls >>>>>> everything".
Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
Oh come one. I don't like Inc at all (in fact, he's insulted me on stream before) but this isn't really something to dock him for. For starters you do not know if Day9, Artosis, etc. actually cast for free. I suspect they don't. The same goes for Inc -- people need to make a living.
Yeah, his calling out TB was stupid but your calling out him is pretty much equally dumb.
Whilst it was a post made out of anger, largely pretty poorly written and some of it wrong, what I meant by that was that Incontrol has no moral high ground over TB. He earns money for doing things to. If Day9 or Artosis or even Mr. Bitter said something, then maybe they have some moral high ground because they have all provided hours of content (real tangible community improving content, not just shit talking on some guys talk show) for free. For the record, those guys have done plenty of free casting for events, and I can't say the same about Incontrol either (I know TB was casting last years Assembly for free, amongst other things, I bet).
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
Oh come one. I don't like Inc at all (in fact, he's insulted me on stream before) but this isn't really something to dock him for. For starters you do not know if Day9, Artosis, etc. actually cast for free. I suspect they don't. The same goes for Inc -- people need to make a living.
Yeah, his calling out TB was stupid but your calling out him is pretty much equally dumb.
Whilst it was a post made out of anger, largely pretty poorly written and some of it wrong, what I meant by that was that Incontrol has no moral high ground over TB. He earns money for doing things to. If Day9 or Artosis or even Mr. Bitter said something, then maybe they have some moral high ground because they have all provided hours of content (real tangible community improving content, not just shit talking on some guys talk show) for free. For the record, those guys have done plenty of free casting for events, and I can't say the same about Incontrol either (I know TB was casting last years Assembly for free, amongst other things, I bet).
Of of course. He's an idiot who has no idea when and how to watch what he says publicly. The same applies for TB too though. Either these community members need to stop posting on forums and giving interviews, or they need to sit down and learn about PR from someone who knows what they're talking about.
For the record, I absolutely think TB is as involved in the scene as he is because of money. However, I also think Inc puts making money over improving as a player so he is not qualified in any way to talk down.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
Oh come one. I don't like Inc at all (in fact, he's insulted me on stream before) but this isn't really something to dock him for. For starters you do not know if Day9, Artosis, etc. actually cast for free. I suspect they don't. The same goes for Inc -- people need to make a living.
Yeah, his calling out TB was stupid but your calling out him is pretty much equally dumb.
Whilst it was a post made out of anger, largely pretty poorly written and some of it wrong, what I meant by that was that Incontrol has no moral high ground over TB. He earns money for doing things to. If Day9 or Artosis or even Mr. Bitter said something, then maybe they have some moral high ground because they have all provided hours of content (real tangible community improving content, not just shit talking on some guys talk show) for free. For the record, those guys have done plenty of free casting for events, and I can't say the same about Incontrol either (I know TB was casting last years Assembly for free, amongst other things, I bet).
What about the shoutcraft invitational where TB put up 1500(?) of his own money
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
I think the original comment is quite unfair on TotalBiscuit. I dont think he is "just" doing it for the money. Rather, he is passionate about pc games and people follow him for that.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
Oh come one. I don't like Inc at all (in fact, he's insulted me on stream before) but this isn't really something to dock him for. For starters you do not know if Day9, Artosis, etc. actually cast for free. I suspect they don't. The same goes for Inc -- people need to make a living.
Yeah, his calling out TB was stupid but your calling out him is pretty much equally dumb.
Whilst it was a post made out of anger, largely pretty poorly written and some of it wrong, what I meant by that was that Incontrol has no moral high ground over TB. He earns money for doing things to. If Day9 or Artosis or even Mr. Bitter said something, then maybe they have some moral high ground because they have all provided hours of content (real tangible community improving content, not just shit talking on some guys talk show) for free. For the record, those guys have done plenty of free casting for events, and I can't say the same about Incontrol either (I know TB was casting last years Assembly for free, amongst other things, I bet).
What about the shoutcraft invitational where TB put up 1500(?) of his own money
I'm on your side bro. Incontrol is ridiculous for criticizing TB.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
Oh come one. I don't like Inc at all (in fact, he's insulted me on stream before) but this isn't really something to dock him for. For starters you do not know if Day9, Artosis, etc. actually cast for free. I suspect they don't. The same goes for Inc -- people need to make a living.
Yeah, his calling out TB was stupid but your calling out him is pretty much equally dumb.
Whilst it was a post made out of anger, largely pretty poorly written and some of it wrong, what I meant by that was that Incontrol has no moral high ground over TB. He earns money for doing things to. If Day9 or Artosis or even Mr. Bitter said something, then maybe they have some moral high ground because they have all provided hours of content (real tangible community improving content, not just shit talking on some guys talk show) for free. For the record, those guys have done plenty of free casting for events, and I can't say the same about Incontrol either (I know TB was casting last years Assembly for free, amongst other things, I bet).
What about the shoutcraft invitational where TB put up 1500(?) of his own money
I'm on your side bro. Incontrol is ridiculous for criticizing TB.
I just hope that TB doesn't feel the need to defend himself on this one. I don't think there is any question that Geoff shouldn't have made that comment (Geoff even mentioned it). There is no argument to be had.
Very ironic that incontrol calls out totalbiscuit for being a sellout when TB is promoting SC2 out of passion and incontrol is just trying to make as much money as possible
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
You do realize that SC2 is by far TBs least popular content on his youtube-channel? He quit WoW two months ago, because his interest in the game completely waned and ceased creating any more videos about it. WoW-videos got about three times the views of his SC2-casts. If he's only in it for the money as you say, then why does he do SC2 at all, when everything else he does generates more revenue? Why did he quit Wow, even though it was so popular?
On July 15 2011 16:01 iNcontroL wrote: love you guys Don't worry! I will def say stuff in the future you guys will get all pissy about. It's kinda inevitable.. but the world keeps on moving forward and I learn each time to dial it back. Name dropping was bad. Point I made was fine. Lesson learned!
<3 no biggie we all have foot in mouth disease once in awhile (see ban list)...more a fan that you;re man enough to admit when you're wrong. Keep up the good work!
On July 15 2011 18:14 enecateReAP wrote: The dig on TotalBiscuit made my day, I love you Geoff. <3
EDIT: Actually, to the poster above me, TB makes 1.5K a month from his livestream. Youtube content != money. Advertising revenue = money.
100% of his stream revenue goes into his monthly invitational. As opposed to WoW, SC2 garners less views than his WoW videos. TB has mentioned multiple times how SC2 is not the smartest area to cover on his YouTube channel (monetary wise). However, TB wants to see the SC2 scene grow so he continues to post casts/tournaments. You're quite misinformed my friend.
He quit producing WoW videos because he has no interest in WoW, and he knows the content will only suffer from him not being genuinely interested in the game he is covering. On the other hand, TB has a huge interest in eSports/SC2 and chooses to cover that instead due to the fact that he is truly interested in SC2 and wants to see it grow
Any person who produces content in an area strictly based on financial gain will always choose the area that is most profitable. Is TB choosing the area that is most profitable? No. But TB's a money grubbing bastard right? Guess he's pretty dumb huh...
On July 15 2011 18:14 enecateReAP wrote: Actually, to the poster above me, TB makes 1.5K a month from his livestream. Youtube content != money. Advertising revenue = money.
Uh, he's a YouTube partner and makes a comfortable living off it.
I take it TB is yet to see this, as I'm sure he would defending his honour by now!
Good interview. Silly name dropping. As well as a horrible opinion on what seems to be a guy who gives a lot back to the community, but can't agree with everything.
I have to say, Scoots is really good at his job. This interview is going to generate a shitton of traffic for the EG site by taking a stab by insulting one of the people in the business that has a retarded level of fans (TB).
On July 15 2011 16:01 iNcontroL wrote: love you guys Don't worry! I will def say stuff in the future you guys will get all pissy about. It's kinda inevitable.. but the world keeps on moving forward and I learn each time to dial it back. Name dropping was bad. Point I made was fine. Lesson learned!
So you're not gonna apologize to TB? Get over yourself.
to people angry about the tyler comment: Read it again: + Show Spoiler +
"People like Tyler from Team Liquid--he has the ability to win major championships, take down IdrA in showmatches--but apparently he also has the ability to be one of the worst players in the entire league."
If you heard incontrol say that in person, it'd be pretty obvious that its said half jokingly. Tyler and incontrol are extremely close (if you dont know that you're not keeping up with sotg) and incontrol has told tyler before that he believes that Tyler has the potential to be a champion, but has yet to put in the time. This comment isnt a stab. Its an encouragement for his friend by having higher expectations.
Probably me being self absorbed.. sorry I am not answering everything everyone is asking!
No... you answered it is just your answer made no sense since you being able to nap between matches has nothing to do with delays for the spectators. So far in this thread you have dodged, deflected, and used straw-man arguments; any other debate tactics you want to use?
No offense but i can't really understand the stuff Incontrol is talking about, just so much wrong. I think the way TB is "handling" the sc2 community is pretty awesome, hosting events from add revenue + casting with MC etc. haters gonna' hate..
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
You realise he started doing Shoutcasts which were watch by <1000 people ever, and did a show (I Suck at Starcraft 2). This barely got him any viewers. This was back when HE WAS NOT EVEN A PARTNER WITH YOUTUBE. Then he started making some videos after the NDA was dropped on the Cataclysm Beta. The most popular WoW website (www.mmo-champion.com) linked to his videos which were really high in demand, yet extremely low in supply. He got a ton of viewers, he kept making his WoW Beta videos, and did some additional things, mostly some SC2 things, also other [indie] video games. Eventually, Husky helped him get a partnership. MONTHS after his Youtube partnership, and his JTV was long after he started SC2. He obviously also has a passion for the game, as he keeps going regardless of the high number of trolls and haters, and it's amazing what he has done. No other commentator has donated his own income in the value of 4 digits to the eSports community. How can you tell me he's in for the money?
I think both EG and NASL need to take some of their revenue and use it to hire a PR coach, or something.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to like iNcontroL. I know iNcontroL will take that as a "I always hated iNcontroL and I just found another thing to bash him on", but that's not the case. Sometimes I think he's hilarious. But he does have an attitude problem.
Replacing him with Artosis on state of the game was probably for the better.
On July 15 2011 20:56 Nimic wrote: I think both EG and NASL need to take some of their revenue and use it to hire a PR coach, or something.
I am finding it increasingly difficult to like iNcontroL. I know iNcontroL will take that as a "I always hated iNcontroL and I just found another thing to bash him on", but that's not the case. Sometimes I think he's hilarious. But he does have an attitude problem.
Replacing him with Artosis on state of the game was probably for the better.
i think EG and NASL should shut their mascot up. he always brings bullshit when ever somethings about him.
Once again Incontrol acting like a douche, loves to talk shit about people but cries when anyone talks back. TB has stated before that his other game content brings in much more money but he does the SC2 stuff as he enjoys the game.
Hopefully Inc can realise that he was way off with this comment about TB, purely by the community reaction. TL is hardly a haven of fanboys for TB, yet this reaction is pretty severe. People have already posted TB's history with SC2, would like to see a proper apology from Inc, but I doubt it will be coming based on past experience.
What I don't understand is why the people in charge, who have very little experience with SC, would not consult with Incontrol and Gretorp over such simple issues like fixed maps and old versions. Anyone who even remotely follows the scene would know those are two terrible decisions yet they don't even draw on over a decade's worth of knowledge when they have no knowledge themselves. They claim to want to propel e-sports in America to new heights yet seem to be so out-of-touch with their base.
-incontrol hypes the shit out of NASL -it doesn't live up to expectations -uses nepotism to get his girlfriend some exposure -uses nepotism to swipe the finals cast from the vastly superior Tastosis -dumps the somewhat unstable NASL to hop back onto the EG gravy-train full time
I'm just waiting to see more of the revolutionary "I respect you" into cannon rush strategy from the last MLG. Once he's out of the MLG pools, I hope EG sees fit to drop him.
That statement about TB is kind of weird, why cant people make money of SC2? TB can make money and continue to do so because TB give something back in form of entertainment, and i believe people like TB and Husky and the legion of youtube commentators introduce more people to SC2, why is this bad? is it bad because they get money for their work? And defending someone new by putting down someone that has actually done great things for the SC2 community? I just dont understand
I thought the article was pretty good if you disregard the TB shot. The Tyler one was probably motivation as well, but still doesn't translate well on text. To anyone who doesn't know your history between each other, it's just insulting. Period.
Totalbiscuit @Kennigit @itmeJP Any big surprise that Geoff is delusional as usual? Obv I got into SC2 for the money, 7 months before I was a YT partner.. 29 minutes ago
iNcontroL:But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism....
....I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit
seriously? whatever you think of TB, why drop his name and single him out in the interview? thats what most people call being a jerk, making personal attacks.
and you wonder why people question your professionalism
Apart from the TB part, the interview was pretty good. I hope that NASL keeps on improving next seasons
On July 15 2011 21:12 Nimic wrote: Totalbiscuit @Kennigit @itmeJP Any big surprise that Geoff is delusional as usual? Obv I got into SC2 for the money, 7 months before I was a YT partner.. 29 minutes ago
On July 15 2011 21:12 Nimic wrote: Totalbiscuit @Kennigit @itmeJP Any big surprise that Geoff is delusional as usual? Obv I got into SC2 for the money, 7 months before I was a YT partner.. 29 minutes ago
And here it starts...
I think he's learned not to argue with dumb shit like this. Atleast I hope he has.
On July 15 2011 21:15 Linwelin wrote: Apart from the TB part, the interview was pretty good. I hope that NASL keeps on improving next seasons
On July 15 2011 21:12 Nimic wrote: Totalbiscuit @Kennigit @itmeJP Any big surprise that Geoff is delusional as usual? Obv I got into SC2 for the money, 7 months before I was a YT partner.. 29 minutes ago
And here it starts...
I think he's learned not to argue with dumb shit like this. Atleast I hope he has.
lol dude its TB he will grab his sword and fight against the internets!!!!!111
On July 15 2011 21:14 turdburgler wrote: iNcontroL:But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism....
....I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit
seriously?
let me make it clearer, when Incontrol says bad thing about people, he is joking around, when other people does it to him, they are jerks and are making personal attacks.
On July 15 2011 18:39 TooN wrote: its really hard to be a fan of incontrol imo
Well I don't know, maybe it's just me.
I might disagree with some things he said, the two posts I made in this thread could probably be read as disagreeing in some ways. But I seem to enjoy most things he does, that interview was fun to read for example. Does that mean I'm a "fan"? I'm not sure myself but I think it might.
I think he is better at expressing himself in speech than text though. Sure he says less nice things now and then and I've gotten white knight vibes a couple of times but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to, he can be a great thinker.
Anyhow, the point is, disagreeing with someone does not mean you have to dislike him/her. Me and my own brother disagree about things almost every time we talk for example.
On July 15 2011 20:59 Ikuu wrote: Once again Incontrol acting like a douche, loves to talk shit about people but cries when anyone talks back. TB has stated before that his other game content brings in much more money but he does the SC2 stuff as he enjoys the game.
It's clear he just doesn't like TB for whatever reason, besides the one he gave. Lindsey only had a monetary incentive, and he supports her. Idra constantly calls this game inferior to BW, obviously he doesn't think it's balanced, why does he play it? OH WAIT. Not to mention TB would make far more money doing wow vids, his sc2 ones are his least popular if he's doing "just" for money he's doing it wrong.
On July 15 2011 21:23 blizzind wrote: i think it's safe to say that incontrol is not one of the smartest people in the community. it boggles my mind sometimes with the things he says.
He's a smart dude but just sometimes lacks tact and foresight.
What a dumb move by iNcontroL I dont know why he thinks he's the E-sport ambassador and talk trash when he gets so much criticism and abandoning everyting he does what goes to failure.ex(competitive gaming-casting,gosuguide,Nasl)
Great interview, name dropping was kinda of a bad ideá tho.. almost everyone would had known you meant TB anyways since he's one of the biggest example of moving to Sc2 for money and fame.
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
- my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
- the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
On July 15 2011 21:30 Lutto wrote: Great interview, name dropping was kinda of a bad ideá tho.. almost everyone would had known you meant TB anyways since he's one of the biggest example of moving to Sc2 for money and fame.
This has already been covered in this thread. This is not true. TB was interested in SC2 long before he was ever a youtube partner. His wow coverage and other content always made more money and got up to double the number of views. His JTV stream revnue is 100% refunneled into his own invitational tournaments.
Arf, screw it. Not to found of Incontrol in interviews, streams and gameshows. He looks like the guy that is going to be nice in person, but once you leave, he'll point out EVERYTHING wrong with you.
but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker.
If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right.
I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check.
These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker.
If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right.
I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check.
These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
This. The non-apology a few pages back being a prime example, and it's also the reason SotG used to be absolutely unbearable to listen to.
While I personally don't volunteer to listen to TB's casting, some of his casts have been great fun (TB + MC coming to mind immediately). He draws in a crowd that isn't attracted to the standard 'professional casting' model, and I don't see how it's relevant that was involved in another game before. If TB makes money, it's because he's popular, not because he's 'stealing' viewers or whatever. It's not like the NASL is a non-profit.
On July 15 2011 21:32 TotalBiscuit wrote: I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
an post about an announcement could this be the TBSL : Total Biscuit Star League?
if you need help setting up the software side of a large elimination tournament message me the best solution ( for large scale open tournaments ) in the community is now available on a shareware license basis.
I do not like so many people focusing on TB thing. Some other stuff was much more serious, like ignoring the big problem of downtime between games or the EDIT:Lindsey girl that was "good" for community or some such bullshit.
They also didn't mention stream problems directly and decided to ignore sound problems even on the 3rd day.
Incontrol just continues to prove the guy isnt just a nerd gamer, he ha is a very well spoken one! Excellent interview, and like others i miss you on SOTG and such shows, hope you don't pack in ITG any time soon!
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
Yeah, I don't understand this comment either. TotalBiscuit has given way more to the StarCraft II community than he has taken from it. He has sponsored showmatches and tournaments out of his own pocket in the past and he plans on continuing this by using the money he is generating from his stream.to sponsor even more events.
Also, the comment after that about Lindsey doing the NASL event because she's "doing what she enjoys" and not because "she's looking to get rich" is equally as strange. It's pretty clear she did the event because she thought she could make a quick buck out of it. Isn't this exactly the type of thing that iNcontroL takes offense to? People coming from a non StarCraft related background and making money out of StarCraft II?
Such weird comments man...
Except Lindsey was hired by the NASL, so not sure how that fits with iNcontrol's offense?
Lindsey is doing StarCraft II stuff because she sees an opportunity to make money. iNcontroL finds it offensive when someone from a non SC related background gets money doing StarCraft II things. Lindsey is essentially earning money doing just that by working for NASL hence iNcontroL should be offended by her as well.
This, a hundred times over. TB has done quite some for the community and even though he isn't the greatest player I value his contribution alot more than eyecandy who has never played the game doing interviews.
On July 15 2011 21:47 -Archangel- wrote: I do not like so many people focusing on TB thing. Some other stuff was much more serious, like ignoring the big problem of downtime between games or the Seltzer girl that was "good" for community or some such bullshit.
They also didn't mention stream problems directly and decided to ignore sound problems even on the 3rd day.
He didn't say anything about Seltzer (who is actually "good" for the community but that's not the current discussion). Maybe you meant Lindsey?
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
That was surprising to hear. I understand there could be deals other than direct payment but wouldn't have thought you would have to pay for anything either.
And you are another example of people I have disagreed with. Not sure if I've actually argued about something you said or did on these board(I probably have) but like with Incontrol it doesn't mean that I'm not a fan.
I don't think this is said often enough: Like hopefully many others I have nothing but respect for the players, casters and everyone else, like the team liquid people, that make my sc2 entertainment addiction possible.
Well I better quit before I start handing out man hugs. Respect yo!
Incontrol never learns. TB has given back to the SC2 community (a community he was new to) than Incontrol has EVER (a community hes always been apart of).
Funny the thing is, there was a point at the beginning of Incontrol streaming where you couldn't watch him for more than 15 minutes without him talking about how much money he makes off of SC2. I have never heard TB talk about the amount of money he makes.
People give credit to NASL for producing a great finals as well.... No, it was the players who made it a great finals, not NASL.
I do not like so many people focusing on TB thing. Some other stuff was much more serious, like ignoring the big problem of downtime between games or the Seltzer girl that was "good" for community or some such bullshit.
They also didn't mention stream problems directly and decided to ignore sound problems even on the 3rd day.
I think you mean lindsey, Seltzer lives in korea and knows the scene and the game. Ignoring the real problems is just a debate tactic like everything he does. Avoid what you are uncomfortable with and talk about things you have more knowledge about than the people questioning you.
On July 15 2011 21:47 -Archangel- wrote: I do not like so many people focusing on TB thing. Some other stuff was much more serious, like ignoring the big problem of downtime between games or the Seltzer girl that was "good" for community or some such bullshit.
They also didn't mention stream problems directly and decided to ignore sound problems even on the 3rd day.
He didn't say anything about Seltzer (who is actually "good" for the community but that's not the current discussion). Maybe you meant Lindsey?
Wait, so why is making money off of Starcraft II such a bad thing? Ok so what if TotalBiscuit profits off of some tournament that he hosted, does that make him a bad person because he got money out of it? That doesn't make sense in the slightest, you can't expect everyone to do things pro bono.
On July 15 2011 21:57 ImHuko wrote: Incontrol never learns. TB has given back to the SC2 community (a community he was new to) than Incontrol has EVER (a community hes always been apart of).
Funny the thing is, there was a point at the beginning of Incontrol streaming where you couldn't watch him for more than 15 minutes without him talking about how much money he makes off of SC2. I have never heard TB talk about the amount of money he makes.
I remember you when they announced the NASL and then Incontrol got you banned on the grounds of "you were streaming GSL material" :D
iNcontroL: ...I think all criticism is valid, it just depends on how you go about voicing those concerns. But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism, or who they respect...
iNcontroL: ...and I know she’s [Lindsey Sporrer] looking to do a great job moving forward. I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
iNcontroL in a nutshell. All from the same interview even. Just have to say good job Geoff, you never fail to reach the expectations.
On July 15 2011 21:47 -Archangel- wrote: I do not like so many people focusing on TB thing. Some other stuff was much more serious, like ignoring the big problem of downtime between games or the Seltzer girl that was "good" for community or some such bullshit.
They also didn't mention stream problems directly and decided to ignore sound problems even on the 3rd day.
i think your criticisms are valid.
but, i don't think its all that serious. there are a lot of choices out there for SC2 eSports. just watch quality eSports events and the low quality events will die off naturally from lack of funding.
What's going on here is something that happens in every single profession or community that involves going from an unknown to a famous person. It happens in acting, it happens in comics, and it even happens with Starcraft. A quick example:
Mr. Joe makes comics since he was 5 years old, he even has a fucking Marmaduke tattoo that he rubs every night for good luck. The man has quit his job to focus on his webcomic, he pours through forums trying to get his name out there, he spends hours upon hours honing his craft and his art skills to improve his work, and after years and years of living in relative obscurity he finally makes a decent living off of his work. And here comes Mr. xkcd who LITERALLY doodles stick figures on fucking graph paper and in 10 months he has the fame and money that Mr. Joe busted his ass for for the better part of a decade. No shit he's going to be bitter.
Here you have people like Geoff, like Artosis, like Tasteless, who worked their asses off, who scraped by, who did everything they could to keep being involved in the SC community for YEARS before seeing any payout. Tasteless dropped out of college and left his girl on a whim to head to the opposite part of the world in the hopes that one day it would pay off. Artosis went from one retail job to another barely scraping by with enough money to eat, quitting his jobs just to practice more BW, and has said many times before that if Starcraft didn't take off he had no other life options. Geoff started when he was a kid, and worked a million odd jobs just to fuel his need for SC. These guys worked their asses off for years and years, were living in relative obscurity, and they didn't care because they fucking loved the shit out of Starcraft, and finally after all of that hard work they're making a living. On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
Now he's not a bad person for doing this, in fact, it was a smart business decision and is absolutely understandable. And yes iNcontroL's response to this is bitter, and yes it's petty too. But don't fucking tell me you "don't get it" or "don't understand where this is coming from" because it's totally and entirely fucking understandable.
On July 15 2011 21:57 ImHuko wrote: Incontrol never learns. TB has given back to the SC2 community (a community he was new to) than Incontrol has EVER (a community hes always been apart of).
Funny the thing is, there was a point at the beginning of Incontrol streaming where you couldn't watch him for more than 15 minutes without him talking about how much money he makes off of SC2. I have never heard TB talk about the amount of money he makes.
People give credit to NASL for producing a great finals as well.... No, it was the players who made it a great finals, not NASL.
This. The grand final made up the whole tournament, but I attribute that to the crowd and the players more than NASL. Imagine what would've happened if that was not the case.
Still if it was their first time I can sort of overlook, but if it happens once more....
iNcontroL: ...I think all criticism is valid, it just depends on how you go about voicing those concerns. But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism, or who they respect...
iNcontroL: ...and I know she’s [Lindsey Sporrer] looking to do a great job moving forward. I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
iNcontroL in a nutshell. All from the same interview even. Just have to say good job Geoff, you never fail to reach the expectations.
On July 15 2011 22:12 Zim23 wrote: On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
Now he's not a bad person for doing this, in fact, it was a smart business decision and is absolutely understandable. And yes iNcontroL's response to this is bitter, and yes it's petty too. But don't fucking tell me you "don't get it" or "don't understand where this is coming from" because it's totally and entirely fucking understandable.
TB already disproved everything you just said in his post a page ago. He started producing SC2 youtube content on day 1 of beta. We had no idea about the eSports monster than SC2 was going to become. TB was interested in the game, enjoys it, and now is giving back to the community. The fact he loses money on casting gigs, and uses JTV revenue to fund tournaments is proof that money is not the important factor in his association in SC2.
Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
On July 15 2011 22:12 Zim23 wrote: On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
Now he's not a bad person for doing this, in fact, it was a smart business decision and is absolutely understandable. And yes iNcontroL's response to this is bitter, and yes it's petty too. But don't fucking tell me you "don't get it" or "don't understand where this is coming from" because it's totally and entirely fucking understandable.
TB already disproved everything you just said in his post a page ago. He started producing SC2 youtube content on day 1 of beta. We had no idea about the eSports monster than SC2 was going to become. TB was interested in the game, enjoys it, and now is giving back to the community. The fact he loses money on casting gigs, and uses JTV revenue to fund tournaments is proof that money is not the important factor in his association in SC2.
I think everyone had an idea that SC2 was going to blow up, and he put that money in after getting an enormous amount of flack. Yeah he really is interested in the game now that it makes him money. Again, it's not a bad thing, I don't mind that at all. He's making money doing what he loves, which is casting, not SC2. He loves casting.
On July 15 2011 22:12 Zim23 wrote: What's going on here is something that happens in every single profession or community that involves going from an unknown to a famous person. It happens in acting, it happens in comics, and it even happens with Starcraft. A quick example:
Mr. Joe makes comics since he was 5 years old, he even has a fucking Marmaduke tattoo that he rubs every night for good luck. The man has quit his job to focus on his webcomic, he pours through forums trying to get his name out there, he spends hours upon hours honing his craft and his art skills to improve his work, and after years and years of living in relative obscurity he finally makes a decent living off of his work. And here comes Mr. xkcd who LITERALLY doodles stick figures on fucking graph paper and in 10 months he has the fame and money that Mr. Joe busted his ass for for the better part of a decade. No shit he's going to be bitter.
Here you have people like Geoff, like Artosis, like Tasteless, who worked their asses off, who scraped by, who did everything they could to keep being involved in the SC community for YEARS before seeing any payout. Tasteless dropped out of college and left his girl on a whim to head to the opposite part of the world in the hopes that one day it would pay off. Artosis went from one retail job to another barely scraping by with enough money to eat, quitting his jobs just to practice more BW, and has said many times before that if Starcraft didn't take off he had no other life options. Geoff started when he was a kid, and worked a million odd jobs just to fuel his need for SC. These guys worked their asses off for years and years, were living in relative obscurity, and they didn't care because they fucking loved the shit out of Starcraft, and finally after all of that hard work they're making a living. On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
Now he's not a bad person for doing this, in fact, it was a smart business decision and is absolutely understandable. And yes iNcontroL's response to this is bitter, and yes it's petty too. But don't fucking tell me you "don't get it" or "don't understand where this is coming from" because it's totally and entirely fucking understandable.
I think the scales are abit uneven; I highly doubt TB was a millionare of WoW and if you read his previous post it kind of explains it and as he said SC is a small part of his income. And I really doubt Incontrol, artosis and tasteless were almost living of the street as you put it. I love the casting archon as much as any dude, more so than TB, but the above post is 100% biased and completely out of proportion.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
On July 15 2011 22:12 Zim23 wrote: On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
Now he's not a bad person for doing this, in fact, it was a smart business decision and is absolutely understandable. And yes iNcontroL's response to this is bitter, and yes it's petty too. But don't fucking tell me you "don't get it" or "don't understand where this is coming from" because it's totally and entirely fucking understandable.
TB already disproved everything you just said in his post a page ago. He started producing SC2 youtube content on day 1 of beta. We had no idea about the eSports monster than SC2 was going to become. TB was interested in the game, enjoys it, and now is giving back to the community. The fact he loses money on casting gigs, and uses JTV revenue to fund tournaments is proof that money is not the important factor in his association in SC2.
I think everyone had an idea that SC2 was going to blow up, and he put that money in after getting an enormous amount of flack. Yeah he really is interested in the game now that it makes him money. Again, it's not a bad thing, I don't mind that at all. He's making money doing what he loves, which is casting, not SC2. He loves casting.
Go read his post. Unless you're accusing TB of lying, you're just... wrong.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
I don't think TB's WoW content was primarily tournament coverage. He was covering mostly PvE afaik. And the PvP he covered I guess was mostly just arenas and bg's, not tournaments.
On July 15 2011 22:12 Zim23 wrote: What's going on here is something that happens in every single profession or community that involves going from an unknown to a famous person. It happens in acting, it happens in comics, and it even happens with Starcraft. A quick example:
Mr. Joe makes comics since he was 5 years old, he even has a fucking Marmaduke tattoo that he rubs every night for good luck. The man has quit his job to focus on his webcomic, he pours through forums trying to get his name out there, he spends hours upon hours honing his craft and his art skills to improve his work, and after years and years of living in relative obscurity he finally makes a decent living off of his work. And here comes Mr. xkcd who LITERALLY doodles stick figures on fucking graph paper and in 10 months he has the fame and money that Mr. Joe busted his ass for for the better part of a decade. No shit he's going to be bitter.
Here you have people like Geoff, like Artosis, like Tasteless, who worked their asses off, who scraped by, who did everything they could to keep being involved in the SC community for YEARS before seeing any payout. Tasteless dropped out of college and left his girl on a whim to head to the opposite part of the world in the hopes that one day it would pay off. Artosis went from one retail job to another barely scraping by with enough money to eat, quitting his jobs just to practice more BW, and has said many times before that if Starcraft didn't take off he had no other life options. Geoff started when he was a kid, and worked a million odd jobs just to fuel his need for SC. These guys worked their asses off for years and years, were living in relative obscurity, and they didn't care because they fucking loved the shit out of Starcraft, and finally after all of that hard work they're making a living. On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
Now he's not a bad person for doing this, in fact, it was a smart business decision and is absolutely understandable. And yes iNcontroL's response to this is bitter, and yes it's petty too. But don't fucking tell me you "don't get it" or "don't understand where this is coming from" because it's totally and entirely fucking understandable.
Props to Lindsey in same article invalidates your theory.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
I don't think TB's WoW content was primarily tournament coverage. He was covering mostly PvE afaik.
This is correct. Although he won that Blizzcon competition for casting Arena games, the majority of his content was daily updates, beta coverage and raids, along with community issues.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
I don't think TB's WoW content was primarily tournament coverage. He was covering mostly PvE afaik. And the PvP he covered I guess was mostly just arenas and bg's, not tournaments.
Thank you Tyler. WoW isn't about competetive PvP likes Starcraft is, its about PvE - he did a lot of content in the cata beta that got 1 million + views on youtube.
So yeah Zim, another person who has no idea what he is talking about.
On July 15 2011 22:12 Zim23 wrote: On the other hand, here comes TotalBiscuit looking over from his WoW casting gig and seeing that SC2 is blowing up. He thinks to himself, "WoW is on the decline, SC2 is on the rise, time to switch it up." Knowing absolutely nothing about SC and its history in a short few months he starts making money on this game.
WoW is on the decline? Maybe it becomes easier for more casual players but WoW is NOT on the decline number of players-wise. It still has 10 times the amount of players SC2 has. WoW is not really an ESPORTS like game since Arena cannot be balanced due to PvE but that doesn't mean it's on the decline.
Everybody here thinks SC2 is the most popular thing to exist, it's not. It might be the top e-sport but it doesn't have the popularity as some other games. Making content in WoW gives more money than in SC2! There are a couple of exceptions but then again there are always.
Sad that all the Incontrol-lings will continue to spew fanboyism so hard it will give Incontrol a decent income. Then claiming he does it for the community and TB does it for the money. Oh...
Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
PvP is the smallest part of WoW...it's like calling pokemon small because there's no tournaments. It's hardly even a part of it.
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
people are just looking at it from a player point of view because it directly contradicts Incontrol's assumptions about TB. TB's WoW vids get tons more views than his SC2, he would get more money doing the WoW stuff.
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Interesting article. I like getting info on NASL because compared to MLG and GSL (in spit of the language barrier) the NASL is not very transparent. It's really hard to sorta guage what they're doing, to the point where our Aussie friend even questioned if there'd be a payout. It's just a difficult organization to read, so stuff like this is very helpful.
I love Lindsey man (she's my wallpaper at the moment, you know, the protoss picture thing), and i hope she stays here and improves as an asset to #ESPORTS, but to compare her to TB as though she's better is a joke. I look forward to the day that Geoff is in the headlines for winning a tournament, rather than showing of serious symptoms of the foot in mouth disease.
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything.
I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.
I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother?
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Wow is dead as an esport (Arena) and they are loosing people, its not going to die instant no and it will prob not die at all but its not what it once was and its slowly climbing down and will continue to do so until blizzard do something. I played wow for several years cleared all pve got gladiator etc and its not was it once was.
And starcraft ladder is doing the same aswell yes but the game as an esport is only growing.
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership.
New content got released 3 weeks ago. And again, as many people said, WoW's popularity has barely anything to do with tournaments/streams. There is just a huge amount of content available to anyone and new content is being introduced every now and then.
Nice interview, it's especially nice to hear how Geoff perceived things from the inside, to get some inside information basically . But I must add my voice to the ones feeling somewhat puzzled regarding the TB comment. I'm not a big fan of his casting, but to say he's just in SC2 to make money feels very inaccurate. As others have pointed out, he makes far more money on other content on his youtube channel, he also organizes showmatches and that tournament of his. Not to mention all the new people he introduces to SC2 because of his broad viewerbase on youtube.
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership.
New content got released 3 weeks ago. And again, as many people said, WoW's popularity has barely anything to do with tournaments/streams. There is just a huge amount of content available to anyone and new content is being introduced every now and then.
That was my point, WoW doesn't have that stream/tournament factor to balance its player loss. If people aren't playing SC2, they're still watching streams which help promote the game. If people aren't playing WoW, they're playing something else.
People who have never played WoW don't actual realize that arena is the MINORITY. Following E-sports like SC2, you only hear about arena in WoW, but the fact of the matter is, majority of WoW players do not care about arena.
omg inc, saying tb is just "in for the money" is probably the most insensitive and hypocritical stuff you've ever said. maybe he didn't start playin sc competitive with 12 years like you, but he is doing stuff since day 1 beta. how can you say he does it just for the money? do you know him? have he ever said that? can you look in this head? imagine someone would say these things about you in an interview. that would be "stupid" and a "personal attack" from a "hater", wouldn't it? grow up, no need to discredit people publicly for no reason. and btw who is not in for the money? if there would be no money involved noone would be casting. if there would be no money involved you would still be on SotG. every former wc3 player und non s-class bw player is playing sc2 for the money. you can't argue that tb doesn't love what he's doing and isn't passionate about. so what's your point? sry but that was a total d-move. be a man and apologize.
For all the statements Incontrol makes about growing esports, the constant barrage of bile toward other members of the community makes me think that he only wants the kind of esports that benefit him to succeed.
Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker.
If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right.
I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check.
These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
I agree 100% with most of your post but to put things in perspective I think Idra says smart things as well, for example.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything.
I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.
I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother?
YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS.
To add, you're an idiot.
So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League?
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership.
New content got released 3 weeks ago. And again, as many people said, WoW's popularity has barely anything to do with tournaments/streams. There is just a huge amount of content available to anyone and new content is being introduced every now and then.
That was my point, WoW doesn't have that stream/tournament factor to balance its player loss. If people aren't playing SC2, they're still watching streams which help promote the game. If people aren't playing WoW, they're playing something else.
You are right about that but honestly losing some people but still having over 10 million players is not what I call "the decline" as other people said.
WoW has more competition than sc2 with all the new MMO's coming out every 6 months. Until now, none of these proved to be better than WoW. When AoC or Aion (I'm probably missing some others) came out, so many people said that "WoW is dying". A lot people tried these new games, got disapointed and came back to WoW. Of course some people quitted WoW and played other games but that's pretty normal.
Edit: Anyway we cannot compare WoW and SC2 which are two very different games and their popularity is due to different things so let's just stop. I just wanted to clarify some things for some people
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
When did this happen?
And why is he funding tournaments with the money he makes from streaming? Are we even talking about the same person?
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
He complains about people coming to SC2 to make money yet he himself is driven by money primarily as he has used the money argument multiple times about moving to korea. Moving to korea is not that good for income but it could actually make him win something, not just make money of streaming, coaching and being a, at best, average foreigner.
Wait so how is it insulting for people coming from other games but it is ok for some completely random noname bimbo???? hypocrisy much? In the same bloody paragraph too...
On July 15 2011 22:29 Lutto wrote: Just becuse wow has 10 million players (lost around 1 million the last expansion) dosent make it "bigger" than sc2 its so much smaller, theres almost no tournaments and no streams anymore(atleast not what it used to be) and the PvE is not what blizzard promised and the game is dying..
So no you cant compare wow to starcraft by looking by the numbers of players...
So many WoW is dying morons out there. Over 10 million subscribers = not dying. Starcraft lost FIFTY PERCENT of its players on ladder between season 1 and 2. 50%. Does that mean its dying Lutto?
Well WoW doesn't have anything to balance that player loss. There is no expansion on the horizon, and no booming stream/tournament viewership.
New content got released 3 weeks ago. And again, as many people said, WoW's popularity has barely anything to do with tournaments/streams. There is just a huge amount of content available to anyone and new content is being introduced every now and then.
That was my point, WoW doesn't have that stream/tournament factor to balance its player loss. If people aren't playing SC2, they're still watching streams which help promote the game. If people aren't playing WoW, they're playing something else.
You are right about that but honestly losing some people but still having over 10 million players is not what I call "the decline" as other people said.
WoW has more competition than sc2 with all the new MMO's coming out every 6 months. Until now, none of these proved to be better than WoW. When AoC or Aion (I'm probably missing some others) came out, so many people said that "WoW is dying". A lot people tried these new games, got disapointed and came back to WoW. Of course some people quitted WoW and played other games but that's pretty normal.
WoW has a lot easier target group though. RTS is one of those games that is truely screwed compared to FPS and RPG, both of whom are a lot easier to play(well most anyway) and catter to a lot bigger audience. Hence the number of players is kind of abstract imo when comparing between genres(I know direct comparison wasn't done, but I feel it is still being implied).
I think the whole "WoW is dying" is mainly due to the fact that there are a lot of games actually contending with WoW these days. Through WoW's lifetime, it has just spanked other RPGs and it has never been an issue. This along with the general atmosphere in the game that the developers are out of ideas, that pretty much everything has been done leaves me and most the people I've talked to about this, with not so optimistic view of WoW's future. But maybe it's just me, afterall we're just speculating on the future.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's get the BW people in here too complaining about how all the players betrayed the better game, because petty infighting is Good For Esports. I honestly don't know how he thought saying this was a good idea.
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
It's not a distortion of words. It's just putting things into perspective. Any person who has previously made money off of video games by reporting on them, playing them competitively or casting them, who picks up SC2 and proceeds to make money from it, should not be automatically labeled as someone who came to SC2 just to make money. If TB of all people is going to be labeled that way, then incontrol should certainly be labeled that way, since I'm pretty sure incontrol was planning to make a career out of sc2 since day 1. It doesn't have to be a negative label, anyway. Either someone makes a good contribution to the community or they don't. Who cares how much money they make if they have a positive effect.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything.
I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.
I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother?
YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS.
To add, you're an idiot.
So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League?
Who is the idiot here, really?
Incontrol has done SO MUCH more for the community than TotalBiscuit, so if you want to talk about disrespecting someone regardless of their contributions, why do you feel you have the right to disrespect incontrol?
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has. He isn't quitting NASL to become a better player, he is quitting NASL because he knows streaming and coaching will make him more money than NASL can. Specially after the failure of NASL in season, there will be even less money for NASL in season 2.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker.
If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right.
I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check.
These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
That just show that he read Schopenhauer or someone copying him.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything.
I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.
I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother?
YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS.
To add, you're an idiot.
So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League?
Who is the idiot here, really?
Incontrol has done SO MUCH more for the community than TotalBiscuit, so if you want to talk about disrespecting someone regardless of their contributions, why do you feel you have the right to disrespect incontrol?
There's a huge difference between shitting on someone who contributes to the community and speaking out and saying your annoyed by that kind of behavior. One is disrespectful and one is just critical of the double standards.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
Saying Incontrol cares only about the money is pretty ignorant to say. But anyway, since when caring about money is a bad thing?
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
Saying Incontrol cares only about the money is pretty ignorant to say. But anyway, since when caring about money is a bad thing?
On July 15 2011 17:20 bounca wrote: note to self not to insult anyone in public unless you're idra otherwise you're a hero and are hilarious
Idra's comments are borne out of frustration with losing, and with the game. That is something that people can respect and identify with. Hence, people like it.
Incontrol's comments are borne out of jealously and a desire for attention (and losing too, just more than Idra). That is not something people can respect.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
Based on IC former achivements, I'd say he'd bail that sinking ship faster then the rats.
but sometimes I get the feeling that when he wants to he can be a great thinker.
If by great thinker you mean someone who can use high school level debate tactics to try and refute everyone with a different point of view than him, then you are right.
I encourage you to take a look at his post history and how he responds to people. Focus on the person rather than the argument, check. Level so many accusations it is impossible to defend, check. Create an extremely exaggerated case of what the opposition is saying then attack the straw-man, check. Ignoring what is being said and instead of refuting it changing the topic to something you have more knowledge about, check. Questioning the motives of those making arguments against you, check.
These techniques work on people who can't see through them, don't be one of them.
I agree 100% with most of your post but to put things in perspective I think Idra says smart things as well, for example.
Most of the time Idra is just being a smart-ass, or throwing out one-liners, Incontrol tries to actually convince people he is right and they are wrong by using bullshit tactics that most intelligent people can see through.
InControl defending one of many questionable NASL decisions by being a dick to a community figure that is albeit much less knowledgeable, a lot more likeable than himself. How do I end up not drawing conclusions about his character as a person?
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to him in every major tournament him enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
You do realise Geoff was a caster of the NASL? Did you read the interview? xD He had no input into anything.
I alsop like how you revert to personal insults towards Geoff to try and get your idiotic point through, Geoff has given more to this community than you could ever imagine, he won't ever read your post, and even if he did, he wouldn't care.
I didn't realise that people HAD to like eachother?
YOUR POST IS KILLING E-SPORTS.
To add, you're an idiot.
So I'm an idiot becuase I say that incontrol completely disrespects someone who does a huge amount for the community? When was the last time inc took money out of his own pocket to sponsor tournaments? What does inc being a caster for NASL even have anything to do with it? He was being paid to do a job. My 'idiot point' as you put it is that Inc obviously has no idea about what Totalbiscuit does. How can Totalbiscuit be 'in it for the money' if he takes £450 out of his own pocket to sponsor the Uk University Team League?
Who is the idiot here, really?
Incontrol has done SO MUCH more for the community than TotalBiscuit, so if you want to talk about disrespecting someone regardless of their contributions, why do you feel you have the right to disrespect incontrol?
By what measure do you reckon iNcontroL has done so much more for the community than TotalBiscuit? iNcontroL has a longer history dating back to BW, but if we forget that and simply consider the community from SC2 Beta and onward, I would say they are on an even footing.
TotalBiscuit has casted more. iNcontroL has been a figurehead of NASL for some time. He has been on SotG as well. But TotalBiscuit's reach in terms of fan base is pretty huge, having already covered lots of other games (and continuing to do so) when entering SC2. I would bet he has made a lot more people take interest in Starcraft 2 than iNcontroL has.
Let's take a look at two sentences that come directly one after the other.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Okay, so he takes offense at outsiders from other esports coming in to make money.
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from our pretty girls"?
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from my gf's friends"?
On July 15 2011 23:25 bonifaceviii wrote: Let's take a look at two sentences that come directly one after the other.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Okay, so he takes offense at outsiders from other esports coming in to make money.
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from my gf's friends"?
fixed
I think it was on Weapon of Choice where it was being stated that Anna is not Lindsey's friend.
lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
TB has hosted tournaments out of his pocket, casted tournaments for no pay, and made videos that help act as a gateway into the SC2 community. Incontrol plays in tournaments, has casted a tournament that he was payed for, was on a community podcast for (I assume) no pay, but has since left it so that he can be in one that he is being payed to do. Personally, it seems like TB is contributing more to the community than inc is.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
TB has hosted tournaments out of his pocket, casted tournaments for no pay, and made videos that help act as a gateway into the SC2 community. Incontrol plays in tournaments, has casted a tournament that he was payed for, was on a community podcast for (I assume) no pay, but has since left it so that he can be in one that he is being payed to do. Personally, it seems like TB is contributing more to the community than inc is.
Pretty much this. The key point people are missing is that Totalbiscuit takes money out of his own pocket to pay for events, sponsor prize pools and cast games. Inc is paid for *everything* he does. Everything. Even though that might not have always been the case in sc1, it is now, as his comments regarding Korea prove.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
I understand your point. But I'm not sure if i agree. To me its like, Let say that TB is royce gracie and inc is dana white. Royce arranged the first ufc and payed for it but dana made it a viable industry. Now who has done more for mma? I dont think there's a great answer here either way.
I know this is a very streched comparision so please don't bother to point that out as we all know inc is no dana white nor is tb a gracie. However i do think that because Inc has been around so long he has the right to speak he's mind and we should let him an TB mash this out rather then bash on inc or tb in the forums. Love the drama guys <3
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
I understand your point. But I'm not sure if i agree. To me its like, Let say that TB is royce gracie and inc is dana white. Royce arranged the first ufc and payed for it but dana made it a viable industry. Now who has done more for mma? I dont think there's a great answer here either way.
I know this is a very streched comparision so please don't bother to point that out as we all know inc is no dana white nor is tb a gracie. However i do think that because Inc has been around so long he has the right to speak he's mind and we should let him an TB mash this out rather then bash on inc or tb in the forums. Love the drama guys <3
Now its a silly example but
Incontrol "flaming" (I couldn't find a better word thanks to my poor vocabulary) some random hater on TL forums is one thing. Incontrol "flaming" Totalbiscuit by saying that he got into SC2 for the money when TB has put a lot of his money in doing good things for the community (organizing/sponsoring/casting tournaments) is another.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
That's because Blizzard is mishandling WoW completely.
Im starting to get annoyed by how the EG interview is starting to have these assaults on other esports peronalities or organisations. Espically since they are just bold statements without any facts as backup.
Really good way to thank someone who is actually putting out his own money in his own tournament.
In addition I think that it would be safe to assume that Lindsey was only in the gig for the money in the beginning (since she didn't know much about it).
That doesn't mean you should be mindless sycophants unwilling to criticize any behavior or comments by community figures. Frankly it's a stupid guideline on a forum with heavy moderation, it's far too easy to make the community insular and closed to any criticism by near deifying the respected, long-term contributors regardless of faults they may have. Of course, there are more than enough posters on TL who'll gang up on anything just to be contrary, so I doubt any such situation could occur here in the near future caused by groupthink, rather than authority figures. As long as the mods don't stiffle any such discussion before it gets stale or just devolves into shouting matches filled with fallacies used for the hundredth time, as every thread inevitably does, we should be fine.
On July 15 2011 22:17 Trowa127 wrote: Damn inc, your comments about Totalbiscuit made me really angry. So representative of the NASL in general, a total shambles. I don't even like TB's casting, I'm not going to lie I find it a bit annoying but do you know what? I respect him as a person, he does a lot for this community.
Totalbiscuit sponsored the UKUTL (not big enough for incontrol to have heard about I'm sure, as he is too busy getting his ass handed to you in every major tournament you enter) with his own money. His. Own. Money. £450 of it in fact. That isn't a small amount of money. You have no idea what you are talking about Inc, go fuck yourself.
Btw WoW isn't 'on the decline' - Over 10 million people are still active, 10 times the amount playing SC2. So TB switching from WoW to sc2 for money purposes makes no sense.
Yeah because there are WoW tournaments cropping up everywhere OH WAIT.
That's because Blizzard is mishandling WoW completely.
Blizzard is mishandling WoW by focusing more on PvE which the majority of the WoW players do? I would say that's a pretty good handling of WoW.
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
Thou shall respect forum veterans sure. I don't see where it's being said in the rules that Thou shall disrespect people doing good stuff for ESPORTS
I understand your point. But I'm not sure if i agree. To me its like, Let say that TB is royce gracie and inc is dana white. Royce arranged the first ufc and payed for it but dana made it a viable industry. Now who has done more for mma? I dont think there's a great answer here either way.
I know this is a very streched comparision so please don't bother to point that out as we all know inc is no dana white nor is tb a gracie. However i do think that because Inc has been around so long he has the right to speak he's mind and we should let him an TB mash this out rather then bash on inc or tb in the forums. Love the drama guys <3
Now its a silly example but
Incontrol "flaming" (I couldn't find a better word thanks to my poor vocabulary) some random hater on TL forums is one thing. Incontrol "flaming" Totalbiscuit by saying that he got into SC2 for the money when TB has put a lot of his money in doing good things for the community (organizing/sponsoring/casting tournaments) is another.
If this is the case here then i agree, I literally have no idea of how much revenue TB makes or how he spends it. If i did and learned that he does use it to promote e-sports (and to be precise starcraft) then I would hope inc would know this and not flame on him.
edited: to the guy who thinks rule 6 is a bad thing 1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not a "for profit" enterprise. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness."
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Does Incontrol hold €1500 and €2500 tournaments of his own pocket? Fck NO his money goes to pizza's Does TotalBiscuit hold €1500 and €2500 tournaments out of his own pocket? Fck YES.
Incontrol should get his facts straight before talking about TotalBiscuit and what he does and does not.
You reap what you sow is the only thing that comes to mind after reading all the comments regarding the kinda douche way Inc went about here. Only sad thing is that you can never reason with narcists, so whatever arguments you trow at Inc he won't even get it since the brick wall of ignorance is to freaking big.
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk - my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiS9GFNBX0 - the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
I think both are passionate about gaming in general so lets stop this nonsense. Its good for Starcraft,Esports and public attendence in general. But I am here for the money,fame and stardom. Where can i get a contract?
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk - my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiS9GFNBX0 - the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
Thats awsome. Does anyone know how much revenue does he generate from he's work? I mean i hear some people saying "out of pocket" which implies him going in the hole then other people saying he puts the money back in to tourneys? still a little confused.
On July 16 2011 00:19 AdamBanks wrote: Thats awsome. Does anyone know how much revenue does he generate from he's work? I mean i hear some people saying "out of pocket" which implies him going in the hole then other people saying he puts the money back in to tourneys? still a little confused.
I can't reveal my exact income due to various non-disclosure agreements. What I will say is that SC2 is a small part of it and I am living very comfortably, that's all I can really discuss.
Someone mentioned nitpicking a single line in a full interview. That would be because the rest of the interview was pretty sensible and agreeing with the community on what needs fixing (everything in production) and what was good (games and casters).
Unfortunate namedrop and choice of words. Decent responses in this thread after a while.
On July 15 2011 23:25 bonifaceviii wrote: Let's take a look at two sentences that come directly one after the other.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Okay, so he takes offense at outsiders from other esports coming in to make money.
I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
And takes less offense at models coming in to make money because they're just there to look pretty.
So basically Incontrol is saying "get off our turf TB, you're taking attention away from my gf's friends"?
fixed
I don't think Miss Sporrer and Proser knew each other before nasl, I mean, they introduced each other live in front of the stream, with Anna coming and saying to SporerCrawler : "Hmm, who are you and what are you doing here ?" and Sporecrawler answering "Excellent ! Can I interview you ?"
Anyway, the interview was interesting (nothing really ground breaking, just PR stuff) until that random bash on TB, I really didn't understood why he would randomly attack TB like that. That seemed baseless and uncalled for.
There's really no point in getting involved in this iNc vs TB nonsense. I think it wasn't a smart thing to say, but I don't care about it. We've had better drama in the past. Grow up, all of you.
I do however, worry a little bit about the tone that iNc takes in this interview. I think iNc has gotten a disproportionate part of the blame for the troubles of the NASL, but despite some good questions from the interviewer, there really never seems to be an acknowledgment on iNc's behalf (or anyone associated with the NASL) that those problems were actually the fault of the NASL. Everything keeps being blamed on it being the first time, so much so that iNc even calls it a cliché. But I don't buy that argument. Plenty of other events have pulled off problem-free debuts.Plenty of other people have done exactly this kind of thing before. The main question is, why weren't these people hired, or their expertise sought? And the second question is, why were these things practiced and tested so that it wasn't the NASL's first time?
I think these are valid questions, and I haven't seen them even acknowledged. Sure the community got their knickers in a twist about the sound issues, and sure the sound issues got better as the tournament went on. But what the community was really unhappy about wasn't the issues themselves, but the fact that there were issues to begin with. And while the production did improve throughout the NASL, it really never was perfect, and problems continued to occur. Beyond the specifics of any particular mistake by the NASL, I thought there were serious questions to be raised about personnel and decision making. The argument that things eventually got better simply doesn't hold, because things should've been better at the start.
It goes back to communication, which I continue to argue was the NASL's weakest point. Throughout, the NASL had this "We're doing esports, stop ruining esports by criticizing us" kind of mentality. To his credit, iNc does address that. But that mentality was still present even at the finals event. And I feel as though in the post mortems we're hearing from some NASL staff, we're still seeing it. I mean, calling the hiring of Lindsey Sporrer as 'genius' is stretching it a bit. Using good-looking women to conduct interviews at a competition is hardly an original idea, even in esports. Explaining that NASL had extra chairs on hand is not an example of brilliant planning ahead, it's what any major event does. It makes it even sillier that the NASL had no back-up projector, honestly.
I hate to be so negative, it's just a little tiny bit disappointing.
On July 16 2011 00:28 tree.hugger wrote: There's really no point in getting involved in this iNc vs TB nonsense. I think it wasn't a smart thing to say, but I don't care about it. We've had better drama in the past. Grow up, all of you.
I do however, worry a little bit about the tone that iNc takes in this interview. I think iNc has gotten a disproportionate part of the blame for the troubles of the NASL, but despite some good questions from the interviewer, there really never seems to be an acknowledgment on iNc's behalf (or anyone associated with the NASL) that those problems were actually the fault of the NASL. Everything keeps being blamed on it being the first time, so much so that iNc even calls it a cliché. But I don't buy that argument. Plenty of other events have pulled off problem-free debuts.Plenty of other people have done exactly this kind of thing before. The main question is, why weren't these people hired, or their expertise sought? And the second question is, why were these things practiced and tested so that it wasn't the NASL's first time?
I think these are valid questions, and I haven't seen them even acknowledged. Sure the community got their knickers in a twist about the sound issues, and sure the sound issues got better as the tournament went on. But what the community was really unhappy about wasn't the issues themselves, but the fact that there were issues to begin with. And while the production did improve throughout the NASL, it really never was perfect, and issues continued to occur. Beyond the specifics of any particular issue for the NASL, I thought there were serious questions to be raised about personnel and decision making. The argument that things eventually got better simply doesn't hold, because things should've been better at the start.
It goes back to communication, which I continue to argue was the NASL's weakest point. Throughout, the NASL had this "We're doing esports, stop ruining esports by criticizing us" kind of mentality. To his credit, iNc does address that. But that mentality was still present even at the finals event. And I feel as though in the post mortems we're hearing from some NASL staff, we're still seeing it. I mean, calling the hiring of Lindsey Sporrer as 'genius' is stretching it a bit. Using good-looking women to conduct interviews at a competition is hardly an original idea, even in esports. Explaining that NASL had extra chairs on hand is not an example of brilliant planning ahead, it's what any major event does. It makes it even sillier that the NASL had no back-up projector, honestly.
I hate to be so negative, it's just a little tiny bit disappointing.
This post is full of win. Although I'm abit torn about the production issue; while I understand that sometimes shit happens, they should've done everything in their power to prevent it - that means thorough testing of equipment and such atleast a week before the event, which as I recall, they started setting up everything only 2 days before the event...? If it happens again though, no mercy :D
Incontrol's comments are really bad for ESports. Everyone should be invited, everyone who wants to be part of it should. No one owns it more than another, no one is more entitled to it than any other.
Everyone should be welcome. Elitist attitudes are not necessary and hurt the game.
On July 16 2011 00:50 Sharuko wrote: Incontrol's comments are really bad for ESports. Everyone should be invited, everyone who wants to be part of it should. No one owns it more than another, no one is more entitled to it than any other.
Everyone should be welcome. Elitist attitudes are not necessary and hurt the game.
Damn, looks like Geoff has joined the likes of SirScoots and djWheat and is killing esports...damn shame.
On July 16 2011 00:50 Sharuko wrote: Incontrol's comments are really bad for ESports. Everyone should be invited, everyone who wants to be part of it should. No one owns it more than another, no one is more entitled to it than any other.
Everyone should be welcome. Elitist attitudes are not necessary and hurt the game.
Dude, Incontrol wasn't being elitist. And honestly, this is nothing compared to what other players have done or said in the past. Incontrol's done a lot with the community and honestly, he's entitled to his opinions. His one comment doesn't represent all of us...
On July 15 2011 23:36 AdamBanks wrote: lol at people bashing inc.... half u kids wouldnt be on this forum if it were not for dedicated passionate gamers like inc. So what if he gave TB some flak? from my perspective TB is still new to here unlike inc who's been here since long before the active log-in counter regularly broke 1000.
rest assured inc will be here long after TB because we all know TB is here for the viewers and not for the community.
Don't get me wrong tho, i enjoy he's work and i don't think its particually a bad thing to want to be successfull and popular in what you do; but when people start compearing TB's contribution to tl to inc's all a sensible person can do is laugh.
TB has hosted tournaments out of his pocket, casted tournaments for no pay, and made videos that help act as a gateway into the SC2 community. Incontrol plays in tournaments, has casted a tournament that he was payed for, was on a community podcast for (I assume) no pay, but has since left it so that he can be in one that he is being payed to do. Personally, it seems like TB is contributing more to the community than inc is.
Pretty much this. The key point people are missing is that Totalbiscuit takes money out of his own pocket to pay for events, sponsor prize pools and cast games. Inc is paid for *everything* he does. Everything. Even though that might not have always been the case in sc1, it is now, as his comments regarding Korea prove.
That's not true, incontrol is doing sotg for free ! Oops wait, he stopped doing sotg because it was free.
Anyway, I would have liked for this interview to address the concerns in more details. They keep saying "we'll fix this and that" but there are still no detail. I guess they are in an intense brainstorming period for organizing the season 2 better and fixing most problems so they'll announce everything later. Really hope they'll have a better decision making process, I think they could even asking the community about it (those threads could become a mess, but some interesting ideas could come out of them)
Or they could contact the teamliquid staff about it. TSL was organized perfectly (I know it was a different format), with all rules and cases theorycrafted and addressed before problems appeared, so everything was fixed very quickly (I remember Boxer (was it Boxer ?) dropping from a game, they had a rule and 5 "experts" sets to make a ruling, I remember being amazed of how everything was well thought and planned)
Liked the interview. And I am a big fan of iNcontroL, but I really do not agree with the flak on TotalBiscuit.
I personally dont like TB's casting but he does alot of good things for the community and he reaches a wider audience and honestly creates good drama for people to freak out on
Maybe inc would still be playing full time with no salary (if so he's an idiot, you need to pay your bills ffs :p) and maybe TB would not. Who cares really? Now they do make money, they both contribute and they both really seem to want the best for the esports world (keep in mind that esports is not only sc2:p)
I really don't understand how Incontrol can get so angry at innocent comments like when Hotbid tweeted about Ret having to face the winner of the open bracket after coming first "boo format" and Incontrol responded about proffesionalism and got angry about an organiser of one tournament 'bashing' (hardly bashing anyway ) another. (can't remeber exact words etc. but was along these lines )
And then he just goes on to drop comments about tyler being the worst player in the NASL and TB only coming to starcraft 2 for the money. These comments are just as if not more offensive than Hotbids.
How can he have such double standards and still be a respected community member?
His light hearted 'trollish' personality he trys to put on doesn't seem to fit with his harsh comments and anger at people saying anything vaguely detrimental to something he is part of.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Does Incontrol hold €1500 and €2500 tournaments of his own pocket? Fck NO his money goes to pizza's Does TotalBiscuit hold €1500 and €2500 tournaments out of his own pocket? Fck YES.
Incontrol should get his facts straight before talking about TotalBiscuit and what he does and does not.
btw iNcontroL wouldnt never win a 1500$ check he's TLPD.But he'll raise more money with coaching so he isnt desperate about tourneys,he seems more money driven than any other in sc2.
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
He complains about people coming to SC2 to make money yet he himself is driven by money primarily as he has used the money argument multiple times about moving to korea. Moving to korea is not that good for income but it could actually make him win something, not just make money of streaming, coaching and being a, at best, average foreigner.
On July 16 2011 01:15 Fermats_last wrote: I really don't understand how Incontrol can get so angry at innocent comments like when Hotbid tweeted about Ret having to face the winner of the open bracket after coming first "boo format" and Incontrol responded about proffesionalism and got angry about an organiser of one tournament 'bashing' (hardly bashing anyway ) another. (can't remeber exact words etc. but was along these lines )
And then he just goes on to drop comments about tyler being the worst player in the NASL and TB only coming to starcraft 2 for the money. These comments are just as if not more offensive than Hotbids.
How can he have such double standards and still be a respected community member?
His light hearted 'trollish' personality he trys to put on doesn't seem to fit with his harsh comments and anger at people saying anything vaguely detrimental to something he is part of.
Its called being a hypocrite its what he is best at.
In all seriousness, I think Geoff's hilarious. He brings a sort of anti-hero vibe to the community which I think is awesome. I like TB too, he seems to be passionate about gaming in general and shows it in all his youtube videos. I personally don't give a %^*& about how much someone is earning, but you have to give respect to how TB generates fans for starcraft 2 - and success in in starcraft 2 does kinda depend on new blood and viewer count.
I think my only beef with TB is how he signs off by saying "I'll see you next time" - It's just the way he says it. As an English fella myself I'm thinking half the time "Where the hell did he get an accent like that?"
I think my only beef with TB is how he signs off by saying "I'll see you next time" - It's just the way he says it. As an English fella myself I'm thinking half the time "Where the hell did he get an accent like that?"
He has admitted before that the accent is put on, like a radio voice. I think he's originally from newcastle? not sure though
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
It's not a distortion of words. It's just putting things into perspective. Any person who has previously made money off of video games by reporting on them, playing them competitively or casting them, who picks up SC2 and proceeds to make money from it, should not be automatically labeled as someone who came to SC2 just to make money. If TB of all people is going to be labeled that way, then incontrol should certainly be labeled that way, since I'm pretty sure incontrol was planning to make a career out of sc2 since day 1. It doesn't have to be a negative label, anyway. Either someone makes a good contribution to the community or they don't. Who cares how much money they make if they have a positive effect.
+1
People who makes positive contributions to the community is what esports need.
By incontrols logic, majar companies that sponser stacraft 2 tournaments are just in it for the money and are bad for the community. I bet the CEO's of Sony Ericson, Dr.Pepper, Pepsi etc.. have no interest at all in Starcraft. Even if they are looking for monetary returns from the investment, it still is a positive contribution.
I just cannot understand incontrols logic at all, he just comes across as bitter and vile.
I used to be a massive incontrol fan. The thing that made me a fan was he was so funny on SOTG, came off as such a nice guy. But yea things change quickly.......
will not abide TotalBiscuit casting any events I care about, like NASL. Same as Husky, he can do his own thing all he wants. I just don't like them and they're not good enough to cast big events.
Bring me more of my beloved Tastosis. I would also appreciate them switching out Gretorp for day9. Gretorp just isn't all that great, and besides, his ears bother me, haha. ^^
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Does Incontrol hold €1500 and €2500 tournaments of his own pocket? Fck NO his money goes to pizza's Does TotalBiscuit hold €1500 and €2500 tournaments out of his own pocket? Fck YES.
Incontrol should get his facts straight before talking about TotalBiscuit and what he does and does not.
btw iNcontroL wouldnt never win a 1500$ check he's TLPD.But he'll raise more money with coaching so he isnt desperate about tourneys
Omg he is abusing sc2 for making money!!@#!#!@#@!#!@!!! I TAKE OFFENSE FOR THIS LIKE HE TAKES OFFENSE OF TOTALBISCUIT!
I just don't understand if he feels the same about the players that didn't play BW seriously like Grubby, Moon, Minigun, HuK, etc., about the sponsors and teams that didn't support BW but saw an opportunity in SC2 and went for it, or if it's just for casters.
I would understand that statement if he said people that started working with SC2 but have no real passion, are only there for the money, but that's a much worse claim and definately debatable about basically anyone in the scene.
You can say that everyone that switches games did it for the money and you wouldnt be too wrong, very few people would do so to make less money, so to state it like that is almost like saying you would like the scene to remain stagnant.
And mentioning TotalBiscuit, he is probally not one of the people that profited the most with the switch, I could only undestand his point if he believe TB cares about SC2 much less than the others do.
It seems like the simple solution here is for incontrol to simply apologize for offending people, and retract his previous statement. Unless he feels like this is an issue worth fighting for and potentially making a lot of enemies, which i doubt, we should all just move on.
If incontrol does decide to make his stand here and attempt to "win" this argument, he will need quite a lot of help because his logic is clearly in the wrong. Love for the community should imply working to make a better community. This pointless fighting does not make a better community. The thing i fear and hope that isn't true is that some people, like incontrol, view totalbiscuit and his viewing audience as not part of the "community". i think this view is closed-minded. I know it can be a bit much to ask, but everyone should try to show some common decency and respect on the internet, and definitely in published interviews.
"He's just in it for the money." Good! That means people who have the criteria and good credentials are willing to participate and share their expertise to the community.
We don't have to bear with all the amateurs and the big league tournies can set the bar high coz who we are paying have already experiences doing events and being professional with their craft.
That person getting paid will surely attract more people because he already has a certain amount of viewers that keeps an eye on him.
Even though he gets paid, a lof of the income still goes to the one paying him if the person he is paying does a very great job.
In the end, everyone gets a better product out of this.
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
Any person who has previously made money off of video games by reporting on them, playing them competitively or casting them, who picks up SC2 and proceeds to make money from it, should not be automatically labeled as someone who came to SC2 just to make money.
I agree with you but that's not exactly what incontrol said. He thinks that the people like TB (which is pretty unclear) that came into starcraft 2 just for the money are less admirable. Like i said i think that Incontrol simply makes the distinction between the people who would have played the game and made it a big part of their life regardless of its success and who now can actually make a career of of it and those who came into starcraft just to make money,riding the wave of its success, even if they might not like/play the game.
Whether TB actually is actually a part of the second category is very debatable, but i'm pretty sure you can put incontrol in the first one.
On July 16 2011 01:48 Wawa wrote: A positive way of looking at things.
"He's just in it for the money." Good! That means people who have the criteria and good credentials are willing to participate and share their expertise to the community. .... In the end, everyone gets a better product out of this.
it is ironic that a man who comes from the land whose initials form the dollar sign holds "making" money in such low regard.
Isn't Incontrol exactly like TotalBiscuit in that regard, "making money" off SC2?
Oh god... Inc did not make a comment on the fact that Totalbiscuit was making money off SC2 but on the fact that he came to SC2 to make money. Which in his eyes is less "admirable?" than A: being a die hard fan of SC, go into SC2 and eventually make money off your passion. And B: being hired by an organisation to provide a service.
You can argue that TB came into SC2 because he loved it and not because he wanted to make money. You can also argue that Incontrol's opinion is wrong but please don't distort his words.
I'm new to this site, but i really feel that people should tune down the crazy before posting. That's not pointed at you Sharuko, but there are posts on this thread that made me go: wtf did that guy put in is crack this morning .
Any person who has previously made money off of video games by reporting on them, playing them competitively or casting them, who picks up SC2 and proceeds to make money from it, should not be automatically labeled as someone who came to SC2 just to make money.
I agree with you but that's not exactly what incontrol said. He thinks that the people like TB (which is pretty unclear) that came into starcraft 2 just for the money are less admirable. Like i said i think that Incontrol simply makes the distinction between the people who would have played the game and made it a big part of their life regardless of its success and who now can actually make a career of of it and those who came into starcraft just to make money,riding the wave of its success, even if they might not like/play the game.
Whether TB actually is actually a part of the second category is very debatable, but i'm pretty sure you can put incontrol in the first one.
I think the problem here is that he said "worse offense", which has a negative meaning, he actually feels offended by those people, and not a "less positive" meaning. If he said less admirable the distinction could possible be made, but the way he expresses it definatelly make it sound as something bad.
I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest, like putting more money into the pot to attract bigger player names makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy to gain viewership.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
On July 16 2011 01:48 Wawa wrote: A positive way of looking at things.
"He's just in it for the money." Good! That means people who have the criteria and good credentials are willing to participate and share their expertise to the community. .... In the end, everyone gets a better product out of this.
it is ironic that a man who comes from the land whose initials form the dollar sign holds "making" money in such low regard.
Sorry. I don't quite understand what you meant. -_-
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
small thing but those photos in the article are way too big. 72dpi 10in tall is all you need. 300dpi online is excessive, no need to be able to see iNcontrol's pores.
Only mention it 'cause it lags when i scroll down the page
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW scene. To each their own on how they view that post.
Incontrol is so hilariously careful with his wording in these interviews, and then continues to single out TotalBiscuit and Tyler, over and over again.
On July 16 2011 02:15 forgottendreams wrote: I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW arena. To each their own on how they view that post.
I cast WoW arena once bro, in my entire life, you don't seem to know too much about my business strategy at all XD
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW arena. To each their own on how they view that post.
He did like 1 wow arena cast ever...you clearly know nothing about him at all. His wow content had a lot more viewers than his sc2 content, he would've gained a larger profit by disregarding sc2 entirely.
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW arena. To each their own on how they view that post.
But then you didn't read it, he haven't done anything related to WoW arena in years. Actually, he's been very vocal about how terrible it is, before the SC2 beta even started.
On July 16 2011 02:15 forgottendreams wrote: I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW arena. To each their own on how they view that post.
I cast WoW arena once bro, in my entire life, you don't seem to know too much about my business strategy at all XD
I meant arena figuratively, like the WoW "scene". My mistake on the wording.
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW scene. To each their own on how they view that post.
You're projecting and clearly either didn't read it at all or your reading comprehension needs improvement.
On July 16 2011 02:15 zarepath wrote: Incontrol is so hilariously careful with his wording in these interviews, and then continues to single out TotalBiscuit and Tyler, over and over again.
eh?
Was late night skype interview where I was amidst 3 other eg's practicing etc.. just gave my thoughts.
On July 16 2011 02:19 forgottendreams wrote: I meant arena figuratively, like the WoW "scene". My mistake on the wording.
WoW doesn't have a "scene" in the same way SC2 does. The kind of coverage given to it and content derived from it is entirely different. Some folks don't seem to really grasp that you can't compare the two in a direct manner
On July 16 2011 02:19 forgottendreams wrote: I meant arena figuratively, like the WoW "scene". My mistake on the wording.
WoW doesn't have a "scene" in the same way SC2 does. The kind of coverage given to it and content derived from it is entirely different. Some folks don't seem to really grasp that you can't compare the two in a direct manner
In the end you, InControl and Lindsey have a net profit in the terms of the progression of the scene, so I don't dislike any of you. More power to you and good luck in the future.
The problem I have is that out of the whole interview, that one line somewhat confuses me in his logic that he made in his statements. Whether he could of worded it differently or not of have named anyone, it probably would of stilled carried a negative connotation to some people. It would of been better if he had not said that one line at all, since it seemed kind of contradictory to the other things he stated. I'm not angry or outraged at all, since this is his opinions and insights on things as he was the one being interviewed. It's just that he talks about the development of NASL and Lindsey Sporrer and then he says that one thing which made his previous statements kind of confusing and contradictory.
I think during the Pre-Season of NASL they randomly switched casters too much during the "show" like for the first game it would be like Gretorp and InC and then Gretorp and Xeris it made it look unprofessional.
The interview isn't that bad, but it seems a little to much of "EG PR" casting Geoff in a certain light moving forwards. Definitely not a 100% accurate representation of his thoughts I'm sure.
we need people to get into sc2 for money if we want sc2 or esports in generell to be big. NBA didn't become what it is just by people being passionate about basketball. what harm does it if people just come in for the money. i'm not implying that's what TB is doing, i just don't get incontrols point. what harm is TB doing? don't get it. imo anyone can do what ever he or she wants. calling him out was pretty unnecessary
Good interview overall (very PC) but the statement about tb was both insulting and hypocritical on multiple levels. This is what I drew from the TB/Lindsey statement:
- We want to bring in a wider audience, but we don't want people from other games coming and stealing our money. Fuck those guys. We want people but not them.
- I play this game b/c this is where the money is. I don't have respect for other people who weren't already a part of the community doing what they can to become a part of this community, even if it is partially for money.
Pretty stupid points to be drawn from an otherwise great interview. Inc putting his foot in his mouth is nothing new <3
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
Yeah, Geoff is right everybody who is just in SC2 for making money should get out! Steelseries and Razer get out! Pepsi get out! My ESPORTS needs to be pure!
-_-
The fact that incontrol singles out TB, just shows that he either needs to create some kind of Drama, otherwise not a lot of people would care for this stuff, or he could not think of a diffrent person to name, whith which he is not involved in any way. The fact that he claims TB is just in it for the money, is without logical reason and evidence. If he has ANY evidence, why he thinks this, i would like to see it. Otherwise he is just talking out of his arse.
If there was no other person he could name in this moment and just randomly went for TB, cause he could not think of another person and then decides to not retract or apologize for that statement, that would be just, sad.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I added to my statement that these are what I drew from the quote. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Either way I still think it isn't advantageous to the community to say that we want pretty girls coming to get involved on the action (for money) but we shouldn't respect people from other games coming (for money). I don't think you have to either be a "normal" person or already have been a part of the sc2 community to not be somebody just here for the money/somebody we want and respect. I don't see why we can't have both.
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW scene. To each their own on how they view that post.
You and Incontrol don't seem to realize that videogames can be unrelated to ESPORTS. A lot of Youtube commentators provide content from games that have no "scene"at all. I have no idea why you seem to think that he's moving from scene to scene to make money like some kind of traveling businessman
look at TB's channel, some of his most popular videos are from Magicka and Terraria
He doesn't need to "travel"from these scenes and get supporters from each of these scenes. The model is completely different. He already has a fanbase, who like watching him play any games. He plays these games, and gets views. Then new games come out, and he plays those game, and gets more views
Also, if you're still in touch with Lindsey Sporrer, don't try to defend her anymore, it's a waste of time. Not saying she deserves criticism, but that she should expect criticism. If she still decides to continue with being involved in E-Sports, the thing she should do is get better and prove people wrong.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
pfft. I think the random tl forum poster knows a little more then you do about what you actually meant. But just to be silly, What exactly did you mean? Were u really thinking about the fact that this was an interview?
I mean you definatly know alot more then I do about what actually goes on in regards to money, motives, etc in e-sports, but I can't figure out why you would single out TB, did he's name just pop into your head or do you know something I'm not aware of? This is just your personal oppinion im assuming and not based of a specific event?
I never bought an NASL season ticket, the price was more then I usually dish out and i was cautious about the funding for the leauge ever since xeris announced it was 'privately funded' (sacred the hell outa me).
On July 16 2011 02:09 forgottendreams wrote: I don't think you can really defend InC's decision to place Lindsey's intentions higher then TB's LOL.
Also for all the legions of TB fanboys out there saying "he puts money back in", this is a business strategy they teach you in college, you start an organization to be zero profit, or give free things away, or take away your own profit and give it away to attract attention and gain more loyalty. Please give it a rest like that makes him an angel, it's part of a business strategy.
This whole thread of people actually defending InC, TB or Lindsey makes me nauseous.
You should read this maybe before blindly assuming things.
I've read that, all I read is a man making a wise decision to do long-term investing in a game with alot more future then a dying competitive WoW scene. To each their own on how they view that post.
Ah, freshman economics. it empowers the ignorant way more than it should.
Basic economics teaches you how a completely rational person acts. advanced economics will teach you that people act on emotion and experience as opposed to what "maximizes their profits on a long term scale" the vast, vast majority of the time.
In TB's case, his intrinsic motivation here is to make a living doing something he loves. Nobody's forced him to become a caster. It's obnoxiously ignorant to assume he switched to SC2 for the money when he could take basically any other job and have a much more stable financial situation. He didn't enjoy casting WoW anymore so he switched to SC2 full time. Assuming he did it for any other reason is patently retarded.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Either way I still think it isn't advantageous to the community to say that we want pretty girls coming to get involved on the action (for money) but we shouldn't respect people from other games coming (for money). I don't think you have to either be a "normal" person or already have been a part of the sc2 community to not be somebody just here for the money/somebody we want and respect. I don't see why we can't have both.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
I think this entire thing just got blown out of porportion. Srsly, these two people have both been fantastic in this community. Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
The irony oozing from this post is nauseating. Nothing I said is inconsistent with his statement. His intent is another issue but we only have what he said in an official interview to go off.
I would agree this isn't worthy of any major drama but saying what amounts to libel against another member of the community without any clear reason is... interesting to say the least.
On July 16 2011 03:01 xXFireandIceXx wrote: I think this entire thing just got blown out of porportion. Srsly, these two people have both been fantastic in this community. Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
Opinions are fine and all but why bring it up so much? Till now i thought the TB jabbing like on stog were just some messing around and not taken seriously but when he saids this kind of stuff during an interview? Yea that is just asking for it.
Dude its all about the ZvG you guys just don't get that the average person who doesn't know about starcraft wants to hear some random lady saying a bunch of things that don't exist while making the current fans Lol
Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
When you're a big name in a community and you target another big name in the community, this kind of discussion will INEVITABLY happen. Either Geoff knew this and expected it (maybe even welcomed it?), or he has learned nothing from his time on the internets.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
The irony oozing from this post is nauseating. Nothing I said is inconsistent with his statement. His intent is another issue but we only have what he said in an official interview to go off.
I would agree this isn't worthy of any major drama but saying what amounts to libel against another member of the community without any clear reason is... interesting to say the least.
I understood that the "quotes" were in relation to an interview he gave. But they aren't quotes because Geoff did not speak those statements. If you want to quote him, then do so. Don't rewrite his statements in a manner that favors the point you are trying to make and then slap quotes on either end.
In real life, thats called give false statements or lying. If your under oath, it's perjury. In TL, its just somthing you should get called out for.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
The irony oozing from this post is nauseating. Nothing I said is inconsistent with his statement. His intent is another issue but we only have what he said in an official interview to go off.
I would agree this isn't worthy of any major drama but saying what amounts to libel against another member of the community without any clear reason is... interesting to say the least.
I understood that the "quotes" were in relation to an interview he gave. But they aren't quotes because Geoff did not speak those statements. If you want to quote him, then do so. Don't rewrite his statements in a manner that favors the point you are trying to make and then slap quotes on either end.
In real life, thats called give false statements or lying. If your under oath, it's perjury. In TL, its just somthing you should get called out for.
Then your problem is a reading comprehension one because I immediately added "This is what I drew from his statement" to my post.
Either way it doesn't make what I said untrue or true. Rather it completely misses the point.
On July 16 2011 03:01 xXFireandIceXx wrote: I think this entire thing just got blown out of porportion. Srsly, these two people have both been fantastic in this community. Sure, Incontrol singled out TB, but he has his opinions. But all this flaming going on over this one statement seems a bit much.
Opinions are fine and all but why bring it up so much? Till now i thought the TB jabbing like on stog were just some messing around and not taken seriously but when he saids this kind of stuff during an interview? Yea that is just asking for it.
I'm coming to the conclusion that this is just a bs inside running joke btw eg members or something designed to stir up shit. Either way I wont be reading anymore post that link me to eg. Maybe guys should change ur clan tag to BM. Stop hanging out with Idra cause i think that uglyness is starting to rubb off on other team members x.x
On July 16 2011 03:10 fishinguy wrote: Oh no coming into SC2 to make money is so bad!
If this doesn't happen how would SC2 grow as a ESPORT?
What is the reason that
Bliz created SC2? MLG started hosing SC2 tournaments? Why NASL started?
Would SC2 reach what BW did if major companies don't come into the scene? Why would these companies take part?
FOR MONEY
SC2 is made to make money, for blizzard. its all a big money grubbing scheme i tell u! Also, coincidence Idra did the exact same thing :O only he said husky was only in it for the money.
Geoff? recent fad in the team? drinking to much EG.IdrA juice?
Saying that TB is only here to make money is a bit ridiculous and overly harsh... He's donated ALL of his stream revenue to host tournaments. And even the revenue from these tournaments go to ones in the future.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
The irony oozing from this post is nauseating. Nothing I said is inconsistent with his statement. His intent is another issue but we only have what he said in an official interview to go off.
I would agree this isn't worthy of any major drama but saying what amounts to libel against another member of the community without any clear reason is... interesting to say the least.
I understood that the "quotes" were in relation to an interview he gave. But they aren't quotes because Geoff did not speak those statements. If you want to quote him, then do so. Don't rewrite his statements in a manner that favors the point you are trying to make and then slap quotes on either end.
In real life, thats called give false statements or lying. If your under oath, it's perjury. In TL, its just somthing you should get called out for.
Then your problem is a reading comprehension one because I immediately added "This is what I drew from his statement" to my post.
Either way it doesn't make what I said untrue or true. Rather it completely misses the point.
I read your post and didn't think you should have used quotes on the statements. It implies that Geoff said them, which is untrue. I thought that your later post stating why you did it was silly and felt the need to point it out, which I did. You will notice in my post how it is clear that I altered your statement and that you never typed it. This is the point I was attempting to get across.
To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
I think you forget that pro-gaming is his occupation? He gets payed, to play this game.
Ofcourse he has a family, just like every other worker in the world has a family, they should still do their job.
When is everyone going to step back and finally dismiss Incontrol as irrelevant?
Every time he speaks, it stirs up some more drama in the community over things that don't matter. Obviously, he believes he's the only one who is allowed to fleece the SC2 newbies for their money, and his self-propelled reputation will allow him to do that without people who should know better giving him any attention.
Wow wow wow, I'm so excited to see Incontrol at the next MLG; he always shows his best games at high-pressure tournaments and I think of all the American programers he has one of the best mind-sets for competition. Its going to be sick seeing what he prepares for Idra.
Incontrol and totalbiscuit should setup a BO7 charity showmatch and settle this awful thread once and for all.
On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
I think you forget that pro-gaming is his occupation? He gets payed, to play this game.
Ofcourse he has a family, just like every other worker in the world has a family, they should still do their job.
Most Koreans practise at least 12 hours a day. Even a pro-football player in the NFL doesn't work that long. All I'm saying is that there is probably a context here.
On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
I think you forget that pro-gaming is his occupation? He gets payed, to play this game.
Ofcourse he has a family, just like every other worker in the world has a family, they should still do their job.
Most Koreans practise at least 12 hours a day. Even a pro-football player in the NFL doesn't work that long. All I'm saying is that there is probably a context here.
In the average american context, people work 9-5, which is 8 hours. Why can't he put atleast those hours in? If he wants pro-gaming to be his occupation, then surely he should respect it enough to put the itme in? I understand that Tyler does a lot for the community, but he could do so much more as a player.
On July 16 2011 02:42 iNcontroL wrote: those weren't my points and you put quotes on them but that isn't what I said o_O
I altered your statements to make them fit my argument better. The statement in the actual interview struck me as odd since it always seemed as if you were friends with TB and spoke highly of him.
Either way I still think it isn't advantageous to the community to say that we want pretty girls coming to get involved on the action (for money) but we shouldn't respect people from other games coming (for money). I don't think you have to either be a "normal" person or already have been a part of the sc2 community to not be somebody just here for the money/somebody we want and respect. I don't see why we can't have both.
Updated for greater truthyness.
The shot at TB is fine. I know he is here to make a buck or two and thats great. Never seen him play a game, which is ok too. He has a great voice for broadcasting and brings some excitment and character to the game. He sometimes acts like he is casting with a higher purpose for e-sports, which I find weird.
Geoff is critical of everyone and should keep it up. Tyler gives the impression that isn't working as hard as he was before. And, damn it, I want him to work harder and put in the time. Geoff wants it too and he says it.
He streams a lot of games... that he is playing. Generally has a few thousand viewers as well.
Incontrol strike me as a person that would hate on a progamer that had no previous RTS experience and only knew SC2. I'd go as far as to say that anyone that went into progaming and started with SC2 would also be in it for the money in his eyes. (HIpster glasses: I was into this RTS etc.)
I also feel like your BW background makes you auto think anyone that didn't play is a scrub. Remember everyone starts somewhere and not everyone has the gaming roots that a fair few SC2 pros have today.
Incontrol: "Well I don't know why people would be offended, I think Lindsay Sporrer did a fine job, why... I'd be more offended by *thinks of an example of someone who doesn't offend him* Totalbiscuit!"
Community: "WHAT?! You're COMPLETELY OFFENDED by Totalbiscuit?! Thats so mean!! How could you be so mean?!!!" *goes to thread about Lindsay to call her a dumb blonde*
On July 16 2011 03:13 Chill wrote: A thread like this makes Starcraft way less fun. Jesus Christ.
So do narcissistic, parasitic personalities who spend more time explaining why people shouldn't criticize their work instead of actually producing a tournament that doesn't look like 2AM programming on a public access channel. It's funny how Incontrol calls out TB for being in it "for the money" when it became obvious after the first few weeks that Incontrol was only in it for the fame and adulation, and he cared a lot more about having a good time making NASL and basking in its glory than he did about actually doing a good job.
Trust me I am the first one to be like "wow i seem to have stumbled into serious town" but incontrol's personality has needled my psyche for the last six months or so and from the looks of it, I'm not alone
Why are there posters that only talk about starcraft II personalities and only talk shit about people rather than discussing players, and the actual game.
First of all, if it is as Inc says it is then it´s totally uninteresting. He has an opinion that isnt that big of a deal that noone should really mind.
If it`s a joke (which it isnt) then it would just not be all that funny, not much to discuss here.
If he really really meant that he hated TB then why do people give so many fucks about it? If someone Hates TB for making videos then he´s freaking silly and should just be ignored, the biggest punishment for saying something retarded like that is that people wont hire him anyways, not that some Internet forum-superheroes go on a rant for 23 fucking pages...
Anyways, Incontrol, you`re a really cool dude and your opinion is your own but you could have worded it a bit differently, not saying you said something else than you meant but judging from this thread, you have to treat us fans like kids to be able to make a point.
On July 16 2011 04:40 Rotodyne wrote: Why are there posters that only talk about starcraft II personalities and only talk shit about people rather than discussing players, and the actual game.
They are like a bunch of gossiping housewives.
Also the post above mine is mean, and insane.
Might as well mail angry letters to ESPN's Outside The Lines, too.. .who cares about players outside of the game, anyways...
On July 16 2011 03:13 Chill wrote: A thread like this makes Starcraft way less fun. Jesus Christ.
So do narcissistic, parasitic personalities who spend more time explaining why people shouldn't criticize their work instead of actually producing a tournament that doesn't look like 2AM programming on a public access channel. It's funny how Incontrol calls out TB for being in it "for the money" when it became obvious after the first few weeks that Incontrol was only in it for the fame and adulation, and he cared a lot more about having a good time making NASL and basking in its glory than he did about actually doing a good job.
Trust me I am the first one to be like "wow i seem to have stumbled into serious town" but incontrol's personality has needled my psyche for the last six months or so and from the looks of it, I'm not alone
If you know him personally, you have my sympathy if he's truly "needled your psyche," but otherwise I find it totally unnecessary to let someone who's a stranger (IRL) cause havoc in your life. I'm really chill atm though as I'm listening to Tastosis bash nerds and movies on the GSTL vod.
The funny thing is, I read the TB comment in the article and casually wondered if it would be a topic for discussion in the thread, as the comment piqued my interest as well. Turns out it's the only thing anyone's discussing, which is great for lurker entertainment, but not much else.
On July 16 2011 04:46 Slakter wrote: What is wrong with this thread, seriously? ^^
First of all, if it is as Inc says it is then it´s totally uninteresting. He has an opinion that isnt that big of a deal that noone should really mind.
If it`s a joke (which it isnt) then it would just not be all that funny, not much to discuss here.
If he really really meant that he hated TB then why do people give so many fucks about it? If someone Hates TB for making videos then he´s freaking silly and should just be ignored, the biggest punishment for saying something retarded like that is that people wont hire him anyways, not that some Internet forum-superheroes go on a rant for 23 fucking pages...
Anyways, Incontrol, you`re a really cool dude and your opinion is your own but you could have worded it a bit differently, not saying you said something else than you meant but judging from this thread, you have to treat us fans like kids to be able to make a point.
So you would rather incontrol never be hired for anything and be ignored rather than people discussing whether or not his statement was dumb. Okay. He has opinions. We have opinions, that sometimes counter his. Boo hoo. Here's a hint: anyone who really hates inc wants him to keep making these mistakes, because they hurt his credibility. We are trying to convince him that he needs to stop making these kinds of dumb statements, so that he won't get burned again in the future. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that saying things never has any consequences, then go ahead. If you have an argument to be made, then make it.
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk - my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiS9GFNBX0 - the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
I'm just going to go ahead and quote this. A LOT of people seemed to glaze over it the 1st time he posted it. This basically ends the discussion IMO.
On July 16 2011 04:46 Slakter wrote: What is wrong with this thread, seriously? ^^
First of all, if it is as Inc says it is then it´s totally uninteresting. He has an opinion that isnt that big of a deal that noone should really mind.
If it`s a joke (which it isnt) then it would just not be all that funny, not much to discuss here.
If he really really meant that he hated TB then why do people give so many fucks about it? If someone Hates TB for making videos then he´s freaking silly and should just be ignored, the biggest punishment for saying something retarded like that is that people wont hire him anyways, not that some Internet forum-superheroes go on a rant for 23 fucking pages...
Anyways, Incontrol, you`re a really cool dude and your opinion is your own but you could have worded it a bit differently, not saying you said something else than you meant but judging from this thread, you have to treat us fans like kids to be able to make a point.
So you would rather incontrol never be hired for anything and be ignored rather than people discussing whether or not his statement was dumb. Okay. He has opinions. We have opinions, that sometimes counter his. Boo hoo. Here's a hint: anyone who really hates inc wants him to keep making these mistakes, because they hurt his credibility. We are trying to convince him that he needs to stop making these kinds of dumb statements, so that he won't get burned again in the future. If you want to close your eyes and pretend that saying things never has any consequences, then go ahead. If you have an argument to be made, then make it.
I`d rather if people think he`s a retard let him be a retard and let it all sort itself out. However, he is not a retard, the only retarded thing is still discussing this. Incontrol meant something else than some people thought he meant, end!
People arent making the argument that he should word it a little differently in here however, they´re saying that he meant something completely different than he himself says he did.
On July 16 2011 03:24 enecateReAP wrote: To be honest, all these arguments aside, personally I think TB makes us brits look like idiots, his commentary is just irritating, it isn't even entertaining. Inc can make any statement he wants, doesn't mean everyone has go off about it, noone will even remember this in awhile.
And to everyone saying that he always goes off at Tyler...I mean COME ON. Aren't you guys pissed at Tyler? What was once a great player is too busy to do his occupation? Too lazy? Too Unmotivated? I don't care if he's 'insulting' Tyler, everyone wants Tyler to get off his ass and show us how good we all know he is.
Doesn't Tyler have a family? Maybe his time is really limited compared to the other gamers. I think it's not that he's lazy or anything and before getting to know him as a person, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
I think you forget that pro-gaming is his occupation? He gets payed, to play this game.
Ofcourse he has a family, just like every other worker in the world has a family, they should still do their job.
Most Koreans practise at least 12 hours a day. Even a pro-football player in the NFL doesn't work that long. All I'm saying is that there is probably a context here.
In the average american context, people work 9-5, which is 8 hours. Why can't he put atleast those hours in? If he wants pro-gaming to be his occupation, then surely he should respect it enough to put the itme in? I understand that Tyler does a lot for the community, but he could do so much more as a player.
Is tyler a full time gamer though? Isn't he going to school or have another job?
I don't know how he could support himself as a gamer with his lack of results. Maybe TL/Stride pay him well?
On another note, I like TB, and I don't know why Incontrol would say something like that, but meh, I'm sure TB isn't losing any sleep over it.
I only wish iNcontroL wasn't a host on Inside the Game. He has always started a criticism with "I like him/her, we're good friends but..." and now this. If you have a problem with somebody on your "social level" then discuss it, don't just hate on him/her via 3rd party. This is just low.
Trust me I am the first one to be like "wow i seem to have stumbled into serious town" but incontrol's personality has needled my psyche for the last six months or so and from the looks of it, I'm not alone
Incontrol made a fool of himself in this interview and thread, but come on man if his actions over the past 6 months are actually affecting your psyche you need to take a step back and get a grip.
These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
On July 16 2011 05:42 Dental Floss wrote: These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
thats not hypocrisy. it would be hypocritical if people did it in a completely unrelated topic without knowing about incontrols interview. they are merely pointing out his hypocrisy.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
I swear to god, players like IdrA and Incontrol don't even use their skill to make it big in the SC2 community anymore. Its a pissing contest to piss off the most people and create the most drama between them, and unfortunately you saps eat it up and give them their (undeserved) place in the community.
On July 16 2011 05:42 Dental Floss wrote: These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
Most people aren't flaming incontrol for what he said. I'm a fan of incontrol, but saying that Total biscuit is here to "just make money" is unfair. How does inc know TB's intentions? He doesn't.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So according to you Incontrol can say whatever he wants and nobody is allowed to be critical of it because it is his honest opinion?
On July 16 2011 05:51 Sandro wrote: I swear to god, players like IdrA and Incontrol don't even use their skill to make it big in the SC2 community anymore. Its a pissing contest to piss off the most people and create the most drama between them, and unfortunately you saps eat it up and give them their (undeserved) place in the community.
You sound equally as upset as you sound ignorant, bravo good sir.
On July 16 2011 05:42 Dental Floss wrote: These threads are so frustrating because people are being critical of someone for being critical but they don't understand the inherent hypocrisy involved in that.
The guy is just honest about how he feels. More power to him, especially when he doesn't have a pseudonym to hide behind like most forums posters.
No one's criticizing him for being critical, he's being criticized because his words were short sighted and hypocritical. He can be honest about how he feels, and I can honestly tell him I think it's stupid.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
''I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well. ''
This reaction kinda makes Incontrol look like a hypocrite to me. First off, TotalBiscuit has done alot for the community already, he's even organised a tourny which I haven't seen Incontrol do yet. Second, Incontrol asks money for coaching... So, if you are not in it for the money Incontrol, why do you ask money for it? Third, do you really think that Lindsey would have interviewed for NASL if she didn't get paid to do so? I assume she's been paid atleast 1k+ for interviewing that weekend, and this is a total random guess looking at the money NASL gave as prize.
I don't think it's fair for Incontrol to judge TotalBiscuit like that, TotalBiscuit has done alot of things with games besides SC2, he has an awesome channel with alot of World of Warcraft video's for example, and I don't really see WoW as another sport? It's a videogame, just like SC2, how can it be another sport? I've lost a slight bit respect for Incontrol with his attack on TotalBiscuit, especially since his reaction comes over towards me as being a hypocrite, aswell as prizing Lindsey into heaven because she probably is a friend of Anna/Incontrol.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
On July 16 2011 06:09 Qurid wrote: ''I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well. ''
This reaction kinda makes Incontrol look like a hypocrite to me. First off, TotalBiscuit has done alot for the community already, he's even organised a tourny which I haven't seen Incontrol do yet. Second, Incontrol asks money for coaching... So, if you are not in it for the money Incontrol, why do you ask money for it? Third, do you really think that Lindsey would have interviewed for NASL if she didn't get paid to do so? I assume she's been paid atleast 1k+ for interviewing that weekend, and this is a total random guess looking at the money NASL gave as prize.
I don't think it's fair for Incontrol to judge TotalBiscuit like that, TotalBiscuit has done alot of things with games besides SC2, he has an awesome channel with alot of World of Warcraft video's for example, and I don't really see WoW as another sport? It's a videogame, just like SC2, how can it be another sport? I've lost a slight bit respect for Incontrol with his attack on TotalBiscuit, especially since his reaction comes over towards me as being a hypocrite, aswell as prizing Lindsey into heaven because she probably is a friend of Anna/Incontrol.
So you're saying that Incontrol says nicer things about people he is friends with...then someone he might not be friends with. Hmmm, what a strange concept... I can see why this would make you angry.
Also you think it is unfair for incontrl - a major SC2 personality to be critical of TB - a major SC2 personality. However, it *is fair* for you - not anyone in particular - to be critical of incontrol. I see how this also makes sense.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
Benefit of the doubt? ok
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
No-one is saying that it isn't tough to give an interview. It is just that this isn't a one-off occurrence, he has done it several times before, and in different, more casual situations.
EDIT: He said that it isn't that he doesn't like TB. It's that the broadside was uncalled for in the situation, begging professionally, and his reason for not liking TB is wrong as well.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
Benefit of the doubt? ok
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
hmmm, something is wrong here.
Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money.
My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??)
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
This horse has been beaten to death in this thread. Obviously Dental Floss either didn't read it, or would defend Incontrol no matter what he said, it is pointless to argue with him.
Someone who makes a good living off the back of sc2 should not be taking a pop at others that do the same. If Incontrol was a top tier pro, and TB was casting his replays Husky style then I might understand it, but he isnt and he isnt.
TB's contribution to the game is extremely committed and considered, he spends vast swathes of his time casting tournaments, and not just big and famous ones. He does his dues, not just leaping in as a guest for the big things.
He as every much as right to earn money from the game as anyone else, and his motives are no less pure than any pro player.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
Benefit of the doubt? ok
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
hmmm, something is wrong here.
Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money.
My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??)
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
You're using a lot of very specious evidence in this argument. You don't know what TB's intentions were; you don't know what lindsay got paid, you don't know much money in SC2 for anyone of these casters.
And I don't know either. We're fundamentally ignorant of TB or incontrol's finances. We're fundamentally ignorant of Incontrol or TB's real motivations. We know essentially nothing substantial about either of these people. Thats why we look to interviews to see what the players and casters really believe themselves. Even then however we only see a shallow slice of their real personalities.
And that is also why we should take their opinions on face value without feeling the need to judge them. Its not our place to decide who is right or who is wrong. We cannot possibly know enough information about any of these people's lives to declare them "ignorant" or "hateful" or "hypocritical".
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
Benefit of the doubt? ok
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
hmmm, something is wrong here.
Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money.
My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??)
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
You're using a lot of very specious evidence in this argument. You don't know what TB's intentions were; you don't know what lindsay got paid, you don't know much money in SC2 for anyone of these casters.
And I don't know either. We're fundamentally ignorant of TB or incontrol's finances. We're fundamentally ignorant of Incontrol or TB's real motivations. We know essentially nothing substantial about either of these people. Thats why we look to interviews to see what the players and casters really believe themselves. Even then however we only see a shallow slice of their real personalities.
And that is also why we should take their opinions on face value without feeling the need to judge them. Its not our place to decide who is right or who is wrong. We cannot possibly know enough information about any of these people's lives to declare them "ignorant" or "hateful" or "hypocritical".
Exactly why Incontrols statements were in fact, baseless, hypocritical, and uninformed. Thanks for proving my point. And Incontrol said things that were hypocritical and ignorant. So yes I can declare him as such.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
That's ironic because I've always - and still - think that way about Incontrol. I mean, this is the guy who tried to sell an overpriced SC2 guide and offer equally overpriced 'coaching.' And these overpriced services pale in comparison to learning from Day9 dailies or simply reading up on the TL forums, meaning they target people who just don't know any better. Sounds like someone 'doing it for the money' to me.
I don't even know why he acts as if anyone - whether Lindsey or TB - needs his blessing or approval to do what they do.
I just find it funny Incontrol gets so mad about people speaking negative about him by claiming we "don't know the whole story" then he says TB got into SC2 purely for the money when he himself doesn't "know the whole story" about TBs actual investment in the scene (as seen by TBs post in this thread)
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
This horse has been beaten to death in this thread. Obviously Dental Floss either didn't read it, or would defend Incontrol no matter what he said, it is pointless to argue with him.
Nice try, but "disagreeing with haters" does not equal "agreeing with incontrol". Thats exactly the kind of poor critical thinking I was talking about earlier.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
Welp, this is it; we've crossed the threshold. People have now officially invoked Adolf Hitler in the context of an Incontrol interview. Guess I was wrong; people were being fair after all.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
Welp, this is it; we've crossed the threshold. People have now officially invoked Adolf Hitler in the context of an Incontrol interview. Guess I was wrong; people were being fair after all.
I'm out; peace.
I didn't compare anything Incontrol did to Hitler, I simply pointed out the stupidity of saying 'Well it's only one sentence out of so many words." But I guess if you can't make logical arguments it's best if you left.
On July 16 2011 05:47 Dental Floss wrote: In fact, I would further like to say there is a thought process on TL that is like "Well, incontrol was being critical of someone and that isn't okay. However, I'm being critical of incontrol and thats fine." This kind of egocentrism is a hallmark of non-critical thinking and can be considered the lowest form of self serving thought.
What horrible horrible reasoning. We are being critical of somebody for making defamatory and hypocritical remarks in an official interview.
Us pointing that out isn't hypocritical nor defamatory.
That is some serious hyperbole. Incontrol was stating his opinion about the very rude treatment that Lindsay got for her coverage at NASL. If you don't want to know a players honest opinion about something don't read an interview from them.
If Incontrol had lied in the interview and not told us how he felt I think that would be worse.
So are you saying that the TB remark was needed otherwise he lied? That is the thing ppl are mad off, nowhere did the interviewer even gave a hint to him but suddenly incontrol calls his name to defend someone else.
Its just a guy talking off the cuff. I would LOVE to see you give an interview. Its so insanely hard to come up with answers on the spot. I have never ever given an interview or speech where I didn't think back and think of 10 things I could have phrased better.
Thats the issue; nobody wants to give anyone the benefit of a doubt. Like incontrol slightly colors one statement in a negative way and it gets echo-chambered into this overly-dramatic bizarro-world version of what he actually said.
Benefit of the doubt? ok
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money.
hmmm, something is wrong here.
Whats negative about what Incontrol said? Hey guys; I only go to work to make money. I'm literally in the IT field just for the money.
My boss is also only working there for money. But don't tell him I said that; he might get mad(??)
Because his assumptions, are baseless, hypocritical and uninformed. He said TB moved to sc2 to make money. This is stupid because TB in fact lost viewers by doing this, his WoW audience was much larger. The same justification he used for lindsay could be used for TB. Why is it less "offensive" for her to make money off sc2, but not TB?
You're using a lot of very specious evidence in this argument. You don't know what TB's intentions were; you don't know what lindsay got paid, you don't know much money in SC2 for anyone of these casters.
And I don't know either. We're fundamentally ignorant of TB or incontrol's finances. We're fundamentally ignorant of Incontrol or TB's real motivations. We know essentially nothing substantial about either of these people. Thats why we look to interviews to see what the players and casters really believe themselves. Even then however we only see a shallow slice of their real personalities.
And that is also why we should take their opinions on face value without feeling the need to judge them. Its not our place to decide who is right or who is wrong. We cannot possibly know enough information about any of these people's lives to declare them "ignorant" or "hateful" or "hypocritical".
Exactly why Incontrols statements were in fact, baseless, hypocritical, and uninformed. Thanks for proving my point. And Incontrol said things that were hypocritical and ignorant. So yes I can declare him as such.
exactly. a lot of the people who are defending Incontrol are obviously missing the point. I have nothing against him, and i would have nothing against the fact that he dislikes somebody else in the community. It's just that you can't go around trying to back up your personal contempt for someone by using false information, information which has been disproven
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
*sigh* Really? If you are going to try to be clever by only posting a link as a response to someone, at least make sure your reading comprehension is up to par. There was no comparison of Hitler to anyone as Godwin's law suggests there will eventually be... Hitler was merely mentioned.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
Welp, this is it; we've crossed the threshold. People have now officially invoked Adolf Hitler in the context of an Incontrol interview. Guess I was wrong; people were being fair after all.
I'm out; peace.
It's just an extreme example making a point, nobody is comparing Geoff to Hitler. O_o
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk - my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiS9GFNBX0 - the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
Incontrol, why are you so cynical?
I don't believe TB to be esport-Jesus but he takes a lot of undeserved crap from the community because of you. What's your motivation? Leave TB alone! *tears*
You two need to go on a playdate and get to know eachother and stop making statements based on ignorance. Shake hands and be friends. If not out of the kindness of your heart, do it to stop these stupid threads. You're both adults, intelligent adults, act like it.
Typical InControl, spewing uninformed bullshit the same moment someone 'criticizes' NASL and directly he goes defensive mode and switches topic and bashes on TotalBiscuit. I'll tell you what Incontrol, TotalBiscuit has done way more for the StarCraft community than you ever will. You're the one that's in it for the money.
On July 16 2011 06:50 Ocedic wrote: Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
LOL! What are you talking about, Totalbiscuit is so cool!! I was reading the start of this article and it came to my mind that if that Russ really is a genius, and he wants a great caster he should take Totalbiscuit for nasl season 2, and then i read on and i read what you are saying about Totalbiscuit... you are so lame that you are talking him down, will not root for you anymore thats for sure.
Everything has pretty much already been said regarding your comment on TB
However had you hired people (and not close friends) for NASL, had you hired people who have experience in different fields, NASL would have gone much smoother. Had you invited the best players instead of some of your friends from NA server, you would have a better tournament. Had you hired people...like TotalBiscuit, the man you are bashing, you would have probably had a better commentator team etc.
Good luck to you, it seems that many people in the community who even defended you for many months on various things (making fun of other peoples accent, watching a stream of GSL, trashing pretty much every player in the world, making fun of other tournaments and casters etc etc) but lately it seems that most have turned on you, and it is comments like these that really make you sound like a massive hypocrite.
On July 16 2011 06:50 Ocedic wrote: Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
Ahahahahahaha. Please close the thread now, that was perfect.
In norwegian we literally call that to Hitle the discussion.
I don't think you get his point. If you changed that sentence into something else that is ridiculous it has the same effect.
On July 16 2011 06:50 Ocedic wrote: Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "I'd like to do dirty stuff with little girls" then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
It would have been the same effect. Just because he uses another sentence to make his point, doesn't mean he compares iNcontroL to Hitler...
Who the he'll isn't it in for the money at this point? MLG NASL and GOMtv are all not for profit organizations right?? Sending their profits to supply needy children with mechanical keyboards and graphic cards amirite?
EG or Mouz sends their players overseas purely to "further esports" right? Nothing about ROI, they only do it to make nerds sweat and smile... Hokay??
Who cares honestly. Not the most thought out statement by Inc IMO, but nothing to get so outraged by. Everyone should understand it's all ROI baby.
Everybody, casters players organizations, are in this amazing spot they are in today because there IS money to be made. Let's not get into WHY they are doing it but focus on the fact this scene is growing so rapidly we can hardly keep pace.
Never been a huge fan of incontrol, always found him to be "too big for his boots", but I tried to support him during NASL.
Seems as though he hasn't changed, always ends up having to apologise for stupid remarks, or bad performance. He needs to step away from any sort of community role, or any role at all in NASL and concentrate on playing.
On July 16 2011 07:49 relic wrote: Never been a huge fan of incontrol, always found him to be "too big for his boots", but I tried to support him during NASL.
Seems as though he hasn't changed, always ends up having to apologise for stupid remarks, or bad performance. He needs to step away from any sort of community role, or any role at all in NASL and concentrate on playing.
He is doing just this as far as I know. He is no longer part of the NASL production or SOTG and seems he is going to focus everything onto 1. practice and 2. his show with DJwheat once a week.
On July 16 2011 07:49 relic wrote: Never been a huge fan of incontrol, always found him to be "too big for his boots", but I tried to support him during NASL.
Seems as though he hasn't changed, always ends up having to apologise for stupid remarks, or bad performance. He needs to step away from any sort of community role, or any role at all in NASL and concentrate on playing.
ideally, at this point he just steps away full stop
On July 16 2011 07:41 GumThief wrote: Who the he'll isn't it in for the money at this point? MLG NASL and GOMtv are all not for profit organizations right?? Sending their profits to supply needy children with mechanical keyboards and graphic cards amirite?
EG or Mouz sends their players overseas purely to "further esports" right? Nothing about ROI, they only do it to make nerds sweat and smile... Hokay??
Who cares honestly. Not the most thought out statement by Inc IMO, but nothing to get so outraged by. Everyone should understand it's all ROI baby.
Everybody, casters players organizations, are in this amazing spot they are in today because there IS money to be made. Let's not get into WHY they are doing it but focus on the fact this scene is growing so rapidly we can hardly keep pace.
Dolla dolla bill y'all.
I believe you are wrong. Most players and casters would be able to make more money doing completely different things(exceptions being huge tournament-winners). They choose to do SC2 because they like/love it, they are able to because their economy allows it. If they didn't love the game it would be an amazingly stupid thing to do(play/cast) for money, and that's why I sincerely doubt money is why they're in it.
Organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners, completely different story.
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
Going to avoid the majority of the interview despite the fact I disagree with a few of the answers he gave and focus on his personality. Remembering just the past year I'm fairly certain iNcontroL is either trolling everyone for attention, or he's the Joe Biden(gaffes galore) of eSports. Still not sure which as of yet.
Every time Geoff speaks there's an uproar, usually negative, it can't be sheer coincidence. Better to be known and hated than forgotten as they say. I'm sure if there was any real problems with what he's said that EG management would've stepped in by now and told him to knock it off, since they haven't I think it's safe to assume that at least some of it is purposefully done.
No matter what your opinion is, I think it's safe to say this overreaction by the community every time he speaks is a bit silly. Plus, judging from videos and clips across the internet he comes across as an extremely likable person. I don't get the random hate for him.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Right, because people who are interviewed shouldn't be held accountable for what they say: as long as they say a lot of other stuff! If I had a 10,000 word interview, but in one sentence said "Hitler was the greatest man to ever live," then how dare you nitpick the one sentence.
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. When you say controversial things often, you're going to have controversy following you. Of course there's less backlash when someone like Idra says the same things, because that's pretty much expected. Maybe that's what you're going for, I don't know.
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
So out of curiosity, how much money did you make off of your 'guide' and 'coaching'? How much did you make from NASL?
I don't know how you consider this a personal attack; it's a legitimate question if you're going to bring up that someone else is 'in StarCraft for the money.'
On July 16 2011 07:41 GumThief wrote: Who the he'll isn't it in for the money at this point? MLG NASL and GOMtv are all not for profit organizations right?? Sending their profits to supply needy children with mechanical keyboards and graphic cards amirite?
EG or Mouz sends their players overseas purely to "further esports" right? Nothing about ROI, they only do it to make nerds sweat and smile... Hokay??
Who cares honestly. Not the most thought out statement by Inc IMO, but nothing to get so outraged by. Everyone should understand it's all ROI baby.
Everybody, casters players organizations, are in this amazing spot they are in today because there IS money to be made. Let's not get into WHY they are doing it but focus on the fact this scene is growing so rapidly we can hardly keep pace.
Dolla dolla bill y'all.
I believe you are wrong. Most players and casters would be able to make more money doing completely different things(exceptions being huge tournament-winners). They choose to do SC2 because they like/love it, they are able to because their economy allows it. If they didn't love the game it would be an amazingly stupid thing to do(play/cast) for money, and that's why I sincerely doubt money is why they're in it.
Organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners, completely different story.
And without organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners.. Whats left? What's left is the broodwar scene in anywhere but Korea :p Virtually nonexistent.
Players would still play the game if they loved it, sure.. But the exposure just wouldn't be there. The sponsors and teams would vanish, and the quality of players in NA and Europe would fall as drastically fast as it did in BW.
And how would it be stupid to cast or play for money even if they hate the game...? :p Don't quite follow. Hey here's 1,000 cash in pocket, all expense paid trip to cast a game in Sweden. You down? "Oh no no, my heart is not into it. I'd much rather you keep the money or give it to a more deserving soul." Seriously? :p
I don't wake up every morning with a fucking smile on my face so excited to get to work usually. And i don't give a crap if they do either. Just produce!!
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
We did, and we know you felt name dropping was dumb. It's just the fact you stood by your argument and never even bothered to clarify after calling your initial example "bad". When you make comments like this on a consistent basis it kind of does become important don't ya think? We only go into an uproar because we care :3 This community is important to me, you and everyone else in this thread so we want to express our opinions on the matter. Wouldn't be much of a forum/community if we never voiced our opinions on these matter huh?
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
I actually think that no one is reading anybody's comment on this thread, yours included 26 pages of people repeating the same things about your interview with the occasional outburst of insanity about your results\diet\expectations in life\contribution to Esport (whatever that is...).
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
I'm just confused on why you assume TB is just in it for the money. Who's to say he isn't doing it because he likes the game and enjoys casting? He does need money to make a living like the rest of us, and I don't see how he's getting rich. Maybe I'm wrong though.
As far as I can tell his situation is just like Lindsey's - they both enjoy doing their respective jobs and are also doing it for money and their career. It's just weird that you make a distinction between them when there clearly isn't.
Incontrol, the mediocre player that flamebates on TL forums then acts all surprised when people bite. Talking down on TB is ridiculous too. People like TB and Take actually put their own money into SC2. Which takes a lot more guts than to just show your face everywhere and then claim you help ESPORTZZ.
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
I'm just confused on why you assume TB is just in it for the money. Who's to say he isn't doing it because he likes the game and enjoys casting? He does need money to make a living like the rest of us, and I don't see how he's getting rich. Maybe I'm wrong though.
As far as I can tell his situation is just like Lindsey's - they both enjoy doing their respective jobs and are also doing it for money and their career. It's just weird that you make a distinction between them when there clearly isn't.
What if he is in it for the money? That's a perfectly valid reason. Is incontrol doing charity work himself?
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
I'm just confused on why you assume TB is just in it for the money. Who's to say he isn't doing it because he likes the game and enjoys casting? He does need money to make a living like the rest of us, and I don't see how he's getting rich. Maybe I'm wrong though.
As far as I can tell his situation is just like Lindsey's - they both enjoy doing their respective jobs and are also doing it for money and their career. It's just weird that you make a distinction between them when there clearly isn't.
What if he is in it for the money? That's a perfectly valid reason. Is incontrol doing charity work himself?
I just don't buy it. Of course, the money is a big part of it, but I seriously doubt TB is thinking "I hate casting this shit but at least I'm getting rich off of it!"
"I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well." - Incontrol
This just makes absolutely no sense.
There's no indication that TB is in it just to make money, unless Incontrol knows TB's inner desires. And if I were in TB's shoes I would be offended.
But meh, Incontrol and his fanboys are too arrogant to admit that incontrol may have said something stupid(he did apologize for name dropping, but that doesnt change the fact that what he said is essentially wrong).
And frankly, nobody should be offended by people getting into e-sports just to make money. NEWS FLASH: Pepsi, Intel, Monster, etc. are sponsoring to just make money in Starcraft II.
it was a good interview, right up until he said what he said about TB. There's nothing wrong with being critical of a caster, or even questioning one's knowledge of the game, but to say that TB's just in it for the money?! I just hope Geoff understands how this dickmove is totally misguided. Everyone who follows TB knows that he's not in this for the money.
On July 16 2011 08:29 Coolwhip wrote: Incontrol, the mediocre player that flamebates on TL forums then acts all surprised when people bite. Talking down on TB is ridiculous too. People like TB and Take actually put their own money into SC2. Which takes a lot more guts than to just show your face everywhere and then claim you help ESPORTZZ.
I know man, Inc seems to walk around like he owns the place, when in fact he's probably the single most overrated SC2 player on the planet.
On July 16 2011 07:41 GumThief wrote: Who the he'll isn't it in for the money at this point? MLG NASL and GOMtv are all not for profit organizations right?? Sending their profits to supply needy children with mechanical keyboards and graphic cards amirite?
EG or Mouz sends their players overseas purely to "further esports" right? Nothing about ROI, they only do it to make nerds sweat and smile... Hokay??
Who cares honestly. Not the most thought out statement by Inc IMO, but nothing to get so outraged by. Everyone should understand it's all ROI baby.
Everybody, casters players organizations, are in this amazing spot they are in today because there IS money to be made. Let's not get into WHY they are doing it but focus on the fact this scene is growing so rapidly we can hardly keep pace.
Dolla dolla bill y'all.
I believe you are wrong. Most players and casters would be able to make more money doing completely different things(exceptions being huge tournament-winners). They choose to do SC2 because they like/love it, they are able to because their economy allows it. If they didn't love the game it would be an amazingly stupid thing to do(play/cast) for money, and that's why I sincerely doubt money is why they're in it.
Organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners, completely different story.
And without organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners.. Whats left? What's left is the broodwar scene in anywhere but Korea :p Virtually nonexistent.
Players would still play the game if they loved it, sure.. But the exposure just wouldn't be there. The sponsors and teams would vanish, and the quality of players in NA and Europe would fall as drastically fast as it did in BW.
And how would it be stupid to cast or play for money even if they hate the game...? :p Don't quite follow. Hey here's 1,000 cash in pocket, all expense paid trip to cast a game in Sweden. You down? "Oh no no, my heart is not into it. I'd much rather you keep the money or give it to a more deserving soul." Seriously? :p
I don't wake up every morning with a fucking smile on my face so excited to get to work usually. And i don't give a crap if they do either. Just produce!!
What you're talking about here, real or not is just a bonus that would be given to no one but someone who is already very established in the scene. You need countless of hours getting to that point, and those hours would be better used towards more rewarding activities if you don't like/love the game. That's why it would be stupid.
You have a point in your last sentence, except that I believe most players/casters would get more money from a different "job". If they were moneydriven they would go for that. I may be wrong but it doesn't really matter.
I'm not sure why people are acting like what he said about TB makes it a bad interview (you can disagree vehemently with someone on something and it doesn't mean the interview is bad). If anything, it's refreshing to hear someone actually express their opinion without dancing around acting super PC about everything. If anything, the shitstorm that resulted from it is going to result in people being less open about it .
Incontrol, the mediocre player that flamebates on TL forums then acts all surprised when people bite. Talking down on TB is ridiculous too. People like TB and Take actually put their own money into SC2. Which takes a lot more guts than to just show your face everywhere and then claim you help ESPORTZZ.
While I'm not going to claim "Incontrol #1 Protoss NA" or something silly, he's not exactly some guy who just goes around yelling "ESPORTS" while doing nothing. He's dedicated like a decade of his life to Starcraft, and has consistently been one of the most active community members on TL, both in posting and in doing other things. I don't know how much of his actual bank account he has put into Starcraft, but given the whole "time = money" concept, he's put in a lot more money than either Take or TB have.
On July 16 2011 08:42 Robonord wrote: I honestly do not understand how Incontrol has any fans when he acts like this.
He has fans because some people appreciate people who don't act super PC all the time, and Incontrol brings personality to SC2. It's why Idra has one of the largest fanbases around (no, not everyone who follows him just likes seeing him rage).
On July 16 2011 08:29 Coolwhip wrote: Incontrol, the mediocre player that flamebates on TL forums then acts all surprised when people bite. Talking down on TB is ridiculous too. People like TB and Take actually put their own money into SC2. Which takes a lot more guts than to just show your face everywhere and then claim you help ESPORTZZ.
I know man, Inc seems to walk around like he owns the place, when in fact he's probably the single most overrated SC2 player on the planet.
I dunno if he's overrated, does anyone actually think he's any good?
On July 16 2011 07:41 GumThief wrote: Who the he'll isn't it in for the money at this point? MLG NASL and GOMtv are all not for profit organizations right?? Sending their profits to supply needy children with mechanical keyboards and graphic cards amirite?
EG or Mouz sends their players overseas purely to "further esports" right? Nothing about ROI, they only do it to make nerds sweat and smile... Hokay??
Who cares honestly. Not the most thought out statement by Inc IMO, but nothing to get so outraged by. Everyone should understand it's all ROI baby.
Everybody, casters players organizations, are in this amazing spot they are in today because there IS money to be made. Let's not get into WHY they are doing it but focus on the fact this scene is growing so rapidly we can hardly keep pace.
Dolla dolla bill y'all.
I believe you are wrong. Most players and casters would be able to make more money doing completely different things(exceptions being huge tournament-winners). They choose to do SC2 because they like/love it, they are able to because their economy allows it. If they didn't love the game it would be an amazingly stupid thing to do(play/cast) for money, and that's why I sincerely doubt money is why they're in it.
Organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners, completely different story.
And without organizers of tournaments, sponsors, team owners.. Whats left? What's left is the broodwar scene in anywhere but Korea :p Virtually nonexistent.
Players would still play the game if they loved it, sure.. But the exposure just wouldn't be there. The sponsors and teams would vanish, and the quality of players in NA and Europe would fall as drastically fast as it did in BW.
And how would it be stupid to cast or play for money even if they hate the game...? :p Don't quite follow. Hey here's 1,000 cash in pocket, all expense paid trip to cast a game in Sweden. You down? "Oh no no, my heart is not into it. I'd much rather you keep the money or give it to a more deserving soul." Seriously? :p
I don't wake up every morning with a fucking smile on my face so excited to get to work usually. And i don't give a crap if they do either. Just produce!!
What you're talking about here, real or not is just a bonus that would be given to no one but someone who is already very established in the scene. You need countless of hours getting to that point, and those hours would be better used towards more rewarding activities if you don't like/love the game. That's why it would be stupid.
You have a point in your last sentence, except that I believe most players/casters would get more money from a different "job". If they were moneydriven they would go for that. I may be wrong but it doesn't really matter.
Ah I see what you are saying. time spent VS potential profit just isn't there to endure something you hate ~_~ eheh. GG!!! wp
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
Dont lump every single person who has commented "against" you in this thread into 1 pile. Some call you a hypocrite, some insult you, some question your evidence regarding this accusatory statement, and some are just merely curious as to what exactly you meant. It might be easy to view everyone as a single entity, "the haters", but that would not be correct.
Oh and it's 20+ pages not because there's a heated, dramafilled debate regarding what you said. Just individuals adding their thoughts to it. Noone is saying this shit is super important or anything of the sorts, but are only important things allowed to be discussed? Can we only write something when it is very important? Is that how you reached your 27k+ posts? People saw something being said they perceived as incorrect and hypocritical, so they spoke up against it. Nothing wrong with that, if you except the douchebags who felt the need to insult you.
On July 16 2011 02:15 zarepath wrote: Incontrol is so hilariously careful with his wording in these interviews, and then continues to single out TotalBiscuit and Tyler, over and over again.
eh?
Was late night skype interview where I was amidst 3 other eg's practicing etc.. just gave my thoughts.
Well, maybe "hilariously careful" is a little inaccurate, then. Your english major is showing, I guess (represent). You're eloquent enough that you can sound like a walking prepared statement. I DO appreciate your thoughts, however.
I wonder if you're living proof of why SC2 pros have tended to pull back more into obscurity, being less involved in the public scene -- they see how careful and honest you try to be and yet you get tons of crap for it.
I guess when I said "hilariously careful" I meant that when I read your interviews / listen to you on shows, I can almost see the tightrope you're walking. And yet this restraint does little/no good, because as soon as you use a specific example the drama begins.
I have noticed that you've mentioned several times how little Tyler practices when nobody else says anything about it. The reason people think you're worth listening to is the fact you're willing to state your opinions on specific issues/people; that's also the reason that people think you're worth raging about.
it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
The reason people think you're worth listening to is the fact you're willing to state your opinions on specific issues/people; that's also the reason that people think you're worth raging about
Tyler doesn't practice enough. True Statement. Nobody gets mad. TB is in SC2 for the money. Not True Statement. Shitstorm ensues.
It has nothing to do with speaking openly and everything to do with the truth behind what is actually being said.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
Still no response to valid posts and more vague threats of the forums being ruined due to a decrease in progamer interaction.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
?? Well if progamers say the logical thing and can debate what they say, then I don't see a problem with it.
Ive seen TT1, jinro , FXO guys, and other gamers post fine on TL. You seem to get the most backlash.
Damn.. InControl with the completely uncalled for bash on TB. That's so bad, and makes Inc look terrible. Bashing TB while comparing him to Lindsay in 2 completely ridiculous statements is just... facepalm bad.
On July 16 2011 08:43 Insane wrote: I'm not sure why people are acting like what he said about TB makes it a bad interview (you can disagree vehemently with someone on something and it doesn't mean the interview is bad). If anything, it's refreshing to hear someone actually express their opinion without dancing around acting super PC about everything. If anything, the shitstorm that resulted from it is going to result in people being less open about it .
Incontrol, the mediocre player that flamebates on TL forums then acts all surprised when people bite. Talking down on TB is ridiculous too. People like TB and Take actually put their own money into SC2. Which takes a lot more guts than to just show your face everywhere and then claim you help ESPORTZZ.
While I'm not going to claim "Incontrol #1 Protoss NA" or something silly, he's not exactly some guy who just goes around yelling "ESPORTS" while doing nothing. He's dedicated like a decade of his life to Starcraft, and has consistently been one of the most active community members on TL, both in posting and in doing other things. I don't know how much of his actual bank account he has put into Starcraft, but given the whole "time = money" concept, he's put in a lot more money than either Take or TB have.
On July 16 2011 08:42 Robonord wrote: I honestly do not understand how Incontrol has any fans when he acts like this.
He has fans because some people appreciate people who don't act super PC all the time, and Incontrol brings personality to SC2. It's why Idra has one of the largest fanbases around (no, not everyone who follows him just likes seeing him rage).
Right.. randomly insulting people out of nowhere equals "personality".............
On July 16 2011 09:50 Dental Floss wrote: Man... there used to be a time when people respected progamers. This is just sad. This community has fallen a long way since the Broodwar days.
People still respect the progamers who deserve it...............
i honestly dont think the "jab" at me is really a jab. i took no offense from it. if anything, it's nice of him to say that i could win a championship. pretty sure there's no other player with my sc2 results that geoff would say could win. his wording did make it sound like i did worse in the nasl than i actually did. i got cut but i was literally one spot away from making it to season 2. i think if i won 1 more game (not even a whole match, just 1 game) then i would've made it. even so, his assessment has some truth to it. i didnt need to get dead last for his point to be valid. but uhhh it's pretty clear he's talking in general during the rest of that answer. he brings me up but then he talks in general. not all of that stuff applies to me and he doesnt mean for it to.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
Ya, come on guys, we all know that incontrol is never wrong.
Still a fan of you, incontrol, but what you said about TB is flat out wrong (saying he's in e-sports only to get "rich"), and that is the only thing people are angry about. Hell, I don't even like TB that much, but that doesn't change the fact what you said was unfair.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
Still no response to valid posts and more vague threats of the forums being ruined due to a decrease in progamer interaction.
Classic.
What valid points would you like me to respond to? TB is not in it for the money? I never said he was (LOL). I said he CAME HERE for the money.. which is absolutely true. I also (and have explained this a few times now) that I don't think he is scum... he does GREAT THINGS which has been pointed out many a time.. but that doesn't stop me from having the opinion that I'd rather someone gets hired blindly then people come here for the money. People are putting huge assertions on this statement when I NEVER DECLARE A VALUE for it my EXACT fucking language is "I am more offended" which literally means I am more in favor of being hired than coming for money... YOU DUMB FUCKS are the ones who read that as "oh my GOD he thinks TB is greedy and does it only for money!"
it pains me to explain this over and over again.. each time I do I get 3 posts from people saying "don't respond incontrol!" but then I get 20 pages of idiots posting after reading the first page and NOBODY is listening.
On July 16 2011 09:50 Dental Floss wrote: Man... there used to be a time when people respected progamers. This is just sad. This community has fallen a long way since the Broodwar days.
People still respect the progamers who deserve it...............
No, thats stupid. All progamers deserver our respect. No caster would have a job, no production team would be editing audio, no trolls would be calling people nazis; none of this is possible without the players.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
I dunno, you also have to look at some of the people who do post here. Idra used to post here quite a bit (well apart from the fact that he spends all his time banned these days it seems) and I can't help but think that did contribute to his fanbase. Yes, you'll get haters, but you have to consider whether it actually matters if some random people hate you if you end up with more fans as well as more haters. I don't think having an anti-Incontrol group (which you already have anyway ) really ends up detracting from your career compared to the boost of having a legion of people who appreciate and support you due to more than merely your playing results. Silent = boring.
On July 16 2011 10:05 iNcontroL wrote: it pains me to explain this over and over again.. each time I do I get 3 posts from people saying "don't respond incontrol!" but then I get 20 pages of idiots posting after reading the first page and NOBODY is listening.
Yeah, (time to be one of the 3), I think you should get Colbi to edit in some statement for you into the original post and then leave the thread (not the site) without posting more on it.
On July 16 2011 10:05 iNcontroL wrote: LOL look at the fucking post above mine WTF?? I NEVER SAID THAT LOL
"I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit." - Incontrol
Sorry, you didn't use the word "rich", I am wrong sir.
But this statement is what it's all about isn't it? I just don't understand it, that's all. I think TB came into Starcraft II to do more than make money. He probably enjoys commentating the game.
And frankly, I have no idea why it is even offensive to get into sc2 to make money. Isn't that what the sponsors are doing?
Incontrol if you want people to stop making huge deals out of you saying dumb shit, then stop saying dumb shit all the time.
If you want people to stop trolling you on TL, stop trolling people all the time.
If you want to be part of respectful and mature conversations, do something to differentiate your posts from that of a 13 year old troll who's never been out of Gold League. Seriously, if you didn't have a Blue Star + Season 7 Liquibet Trophy next to your name I would look at your caps lock, ellipse ridden, bullshit filled posts and skip to the next one.
You are a good player. You are a good speaker. You are an intelligent person. You also behave with a level of immaturity and trololol that is completely not acceptable for somebody who wants to be taken as seriously as you seem to want to be taken.
If you want to talk shit about people, troll, and get involved in forum arguments while looking like a douche then fucking do it. But don't turn around and bitch about how everybody is always so stupid and you can barely stand the idiots slamming you.
Trust me Geoff, if it weren't for the idiots you wouldn't have many fans left. People with brains have been hopping off the bandwagon since Brood War.
On a completely different note, if this whole "better hire someone blindly, than have them come in for the money" notion was actually put into practice when staffing NASL, then it would really explain a lot.
Don't particularly care about Incontrol himself nor his opinions on casters and whatnot.
On July 16 2011 10:15 fadestep wrote: Incontrol if you want people to stop making huge deals out of you saying dumb shit, then stop saying dumb shit all the time.
If you want people to stop trolling you on TL, stop trolling people all the time.
If you want to be part of respectful and mature conversations, do something to differentiate your posts from that of a 13 year old troll who's never been out of Gold League. Seriously, if you didn't have a Blue Star + Season 7 Liquibet Trophy next to your name I would look at your caps lock, ellipse ridden, bullshit filled posts and skip to the next one.
You are a good player. You are a good speaker. You are an intelligent person. You also behave with a level of immaturity and trololol that is completely not acceptable for somebody who wants to be taken as seriously as you seem to want to be taken.
If you want to talk shit about people, troll, and get involved in forum arguments while looking like a douche then fucking do it. But don't turn around and bitch about how everybody is always so stupid and you can barely stand the idiots slamming you.
Trust me Geoff, if it weren't for the idiots you wouldn't have many fans left. People with brains have been hopping off the bandwagon since Brood War.
~ Used to be a fan
Wow... wins the thread.. hard to find better words.
TB delivers a quality product either when commentating, streaming or managing a tournament. Lindsay went to do an interview gig without a single hint of research on the subject. I love you man but that particular remark makes me a sad panda.
On July 16 2011 09:50 Dental Floss wrote: Man... there used to be a time when people respected progamers. This is just sad. This community has fallen a long way since the Broodwar days.
People still respect the progamers who deserve it...............
No, thats stupid. All progamers deserver our respect. No caster would have a job, no production team would be editing audio, no trolls would be calling people nazis; none of this is possible without the players.
And this is a one way street yes? There isn't a sport in the entire world where this is a one way street.
What valid points would you like me to respond to?
Mostly the ones that discuss how you handled the situation AFTER the fact and your massive generalizing of the community into one faceless hater. One such example is this one.
Dont lump every single person who has commented "against" you in this thread into 1 pile. Some call you a hypocrite, some insult you, some question your evidence regarding this accusatory statement, and some are just merely curious as to what exactly you meant. It might be easy to view everyone as a single entity, "the haters", but that would not be correct.
Oh and it's 20+ pages not because there's a heated, dramafilled debate regarding what you said. Just individuals adding their thoughts to it. Noone is saying this shit is super important or anything of the sorts, but are only important things allowed to be discussed? Can we only write something when it is very important? Is that how you reached your 27k+ posts? People saw something being said they perceived as incorrect and hypocritical, so they spoke up against it. Nothing wrong with that, if you except the douchebags who felt the need to insult you.
Most of the time what upsets me about the things you say isn't the original 'offensive' statement but rather the sarcasm and the deflecting that occurs afterwards in which everybody is portrayed as out to get you.
Well, after reading almost all the pages of this drama-filled thread, i'm happy to see that TotalBiscuit has been accepted by the community. Some months ago, a lot, if not most of TL would have agreed with Incontrol as TB -like Husky- was quite a hated caster. It seems his hard work and generosity has paid off. He has now a better understanding of the game, even if he still does a bunch of mistakes. But overall, he's doing a great job.
The little sentence about him was a lame cheap shot, but the spurious arguments Incontrol uses just make things worst. Stuff like this " I'd rather someone gets hired blindly then people come here for the money." is plainly incomprehensible.
On July 16 2011 10:15 fadestep wrote: Incontrol if you want people to stop making huge deals out of you saying dumb shit, then stop saying dumb shit all the time.
If you want people to stop trolling you on TL, stop trolling people all the time.
If you want to be part of respectful and mature conversations, do something to differentiate your posts from that of a 13 year old troll who's never been out of Gold League. Seriously, if you didn't have a Blue Star + Season 7 Liquibet Trophy next to your name I would look at your caps lock, ellipse ridden, bullshit filled posts and skip to the next one.
You are a good player. You are a good speaker. You are an intelligent person. You also behave with a level of immaturity and trololol that is completely not acceptable for somebody who wants to be taken as seriously as you seem to want to be taken.
If you want to talk shit about people, troll, and get involved in forum arguments while looking like a douche then fucking do it. But don't turn around and bitch about how everybody is always so stupid and you can barely stand the idiots slamming you.
Trust me Geoff, if it weren't for the idiots you wouldn't have many fans left. People with brains have been hopping off the bandwagon since Brood War.
~ Used to be a fan
Disagree entirely, Geoff has contributed greatly to the community, particullarly in SC2, if you don't think he deserves respect for that, then you're the one without a brain.
I don't even see why everyone cares, I laughed at him saying this, everyone demands that Geoff shows complete and utter respect for TB because of his 'contributions' yet everyone seems to dismiss Geoffs.
On July 16 2011 10:15 fadestep wrote: Incontrol if you want people to stop making huge deals out of you saying dumb shit, then stop saying dumb shit all the time.
If you want people to stop trolling you on TL, stop trolling people all the time.
If you want to be part of respectful and mature conversations, do something to differentiate your posts from that of a 13 year old troll who's never been out of Gold League. Seriously, if you didn't have a Blue Star + Season 7 Liquibet Trophy next to your name I would look at your caps lock, ellipse ridden, bullshit filled posts and skip to the next one.
You are a good player. You are a good speaker. You are an intelligent person. You also behave with a level of immaturity and trololol that is completely not acceptable for somebody who wants to be taken as seriously as you seem to want to be taken.
If you want to talk shit about people, troll, and get involved in forum arguments while looking like a douche then fucking do it. But don't turn around and bitch about how everybody is always so stupid and you can barely stand the idiots slamming you.
Trust me Geoff, if it weren't for the idiots you wouldn't have many fans left. People with brains have been hopping off the bandwagon since Brood War.
What valid points would you like me to respond to?
Mostly the ones that discuss how you handled the situation AFTER the fact and your massive generalizing of the community into one faceless hater. One such example is this one.
Dont lump every single person who has commented "against" you in this thread into 1 pile. Some call you a hypocrite, some insult you, some question your evidence regarding this accusatory statement, and some are just merely curious as to what exactly you meant. It might be easy to view everyone as a single entity, "the haters", but that would not be correct.
Oh and it's 20+ pages not because there's a heated, dramafilled debate regarding what you said. Just individuals adding their thoughts to it. Noone is saying this shit is super important or anything of the sorts, but are only important things allowed to be discussed? Can we only write something when it is very important? Is that how you reached your 27k+ posts? People saw something being said they perceived as incorrect and hypocritical, so they spoke up against it. Nothing wrong with that, if you except the douchebags who felt the need to insult you.
Most of the time what upsets me about the things you say isn't the original 'offensive' statement but rather the sarcasm and the deflecting that occurs afterwards in which everybody is portrayed as out to get you.
Good day.
his entire post is a strawman argument with horribad logic.
and LOL @ you. Read this thread and then try and blame me for feeling like "everyone is out to get me" you kidding me?
his entire post is a strawman argument with horribad logic.
and LOL @ you. Read this thread and then try and blame me for feeling like "everyone is out to get me" you kidding me?
PS: GOOD DAY SIR!
Ok here is a valid question Incontrol, not related to the TB stuff. You said NASL had comparable down time to other events, and you used being able to take naps at MLG as an example of that. How does being able as a player to take naps between your matches at MLG have anything to do with spectator down time?
his entire post is a strawman argument with horribad logic.
and LOL @ you. Read this thread and then try and blame me for feeling like "everyone is out to get me" you kidding me?
PS: GOOD DAY SIR!
Ok here is a valid question Incontrol, not related to the TB stuff. You said NASL had comparable down time to other events, and you used being able to take naps at MLG as an example of that. How does being able as a player to take naps between your matches at MLG have anything to do with spectator down time?
The downtime is not irregular or unique to the NASL at all. There was air time during Homestory Cup III of players barbecuing, there’s MLG where I can go take a nap between my matches--that’s all just the usual run of things.
What valid points would you like me to respond to?
Mostly the ones that discuss how you handled the situation AFTER the fact and your massive generalizing of the community into one faceless hater. One such example is this one.
Dont lump every single person who has commented "against" you in this thread into 1 pile. Some call you a hypocrite, some insult you, some question your evidence regarding this accusatory statement, and some are just merely curious as to what exactly you meant. It might be easy to view everyone as a single entity, "the haters", but that would not be correct.
Oh and it's 20+ pages not because there's a heated, dramafilled debate regarding what you said. Just individuals adding their thoughts to it. Noone is saying this shit is super important or anything of the sorts, but are only important things allowed to be discussed? Can we only write something when it is very important? Is that how you reached your 27k+ posts? People saw something being said they perceived as incorrect and hypocritical, so they spoke up against it. Nothing wrong with that, if you except the douchebags who felt the need to insult you.
Most of the time what upsets me about the things you say isn't the original 'offensive' statement but rather the sarcasm and the deflecting that occurs afterwards in which everybody is portrayed as out to get you.
Good day.
his entire post is a strawman argument with horribad logic.
and LOL @ you. Read this thread and then try and blame me for feeling like "everyone is out to get me" you kidding me?
PS: GOOD DAY SIR!
I personally don't see the horribad logic in this....
It might be easy to view everyone as a single entity, "the haters", but that would not be correct.
but if you do you must enlighten me I guess. Oh well.
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk - my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiS9GFNBX0 - the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
iNcontroL, how about answering this rather non-hateful post <3
On July 16 2011 10:05 iNcontroL wrote: but that doesn't stop me from having the opinion that I'd rather someone gets hired blindly then people come here for the money.
Did it ever occur to you that people don't agree with this, and hence that is why there is 28 pages discussing it?
What valid points would you like me to respond to?
Mostly the ones that discuss how you handled the situation AFTER the fact and your massive generalizing of the community into one faceless hater. One such example is this one.
Dont lump every single person who has commented "against" you in this thread into 1 pile. Some call you a hypocrite, some insult you, some question your evidence regarding this accusatory statement, and some are just merely curious as to what exactly you meant. It might be easy to view everyone as a single entity, "the haters", but that would not be correct.
Oh and it's 20+ pages not because there's a heated, dramafilled debate regarding what you said. Just individuals adding their thoughts to it. Noone is saying this shit is super important or anything of the sorts, but are only important things allowed to be discussed? Can we only write something when it is very important? Is that how you reached your 27k+ posts? People saw something being said they perceived as incorrect and hypocritical, so they spoke up against it. Nothing wrong with that, if you except the douchebags who felt the need to insult you.
Most of the time what upsets me about the things you say isn't the original 'offensive' statement but rather the sarcasm and the deflecting that occurs afterwards in which everybody is portrayed as out to get you.
Good day.
his entire post is a strawman argument with horribad logic.
and LOL @ you. Read this thread and then try and blame me for feeling like "everyone is out to get me" you kidding me?
PS: GOOD DAY SIR!
"Came for the money" - Opportunity to profit off new game.
Now, TB doesn't make as much of a profit off SC2 as he did with WoW (viewer wise). So if he "came for the money", why is he still in an industry that it less profitable to him? Geoff we're not all out to get you here... Some people in this thread are making valid points towards your argument and yet you're dismissing them as forum whiners. As someone who enjoys interacting with the community (some days), don't you feel it would be better to address those points rather than blanket statements towards "the haters".
It's less about respect for TB and more about how absurd is what he said. What I understand is he'd rather have someone who's innocent than who has a commercial interest in the scene. But Lindsay was not innocent, she was incompetent. It's fine that she isn't a prototypical geek or doesn't know who drewbie is, but she should check beforehand that it was the first live event or that the single game it covers doesn't have the race G. To take less offense from her "work" is an insult to anyone who ever did a mildly competent job.
On July 16 2011 08:43 Insane wrote: I'm not sure why people are acting like what he said about TB makes it a bad interview (you can disagree vehemently with someone on something and it doesn't mean the interview is bad). If anything, it's refreshing to hear someone actually express their opinion without dancing around acting super PC about everything. If anything, the shitstorm that resulted from it is going to result in people being less open about it .
Incontrol, the mediocre player that flamebates on TL forums then acts all surprised when people bite. Talking down on TB is ridiculous too. People like TB and Take actually put their own money into SC2. Which takes a lot more guts than to just show your face everywhere and then claim you help ESPORTZZ.
While I'm not going to claim "Incontrol #1 Protoss NA" or something silly, he's not exactly some guy who just goes around yelling "ESPORTS" while doing nothing. He's dedicated like a decade of his life to Starcraft, and has consistently been one of the most active community members on TL, both in posting and in doing other things. I don't know how much of his actual bank account he has put into Starcraft, but given the whole "time = money" concept, he's put in a lot more money than either Take or TB have.
On July 16 2011 08:42 Robonord wrote: I honestly do not understand how Incontrol has any fans when he acts like this.
He has fans because some people appreciate people who don't act super PC all the time, and Incontrol brings personality to SC2. It's why Idra has one of the largest fanbases around (no, not everyone who follows him just likes seeing him rage).
I find it amusing when people talk anti-PC, freedom of speech bullshit. What you fail to realize is that our disagreement with 'edgy, say what they want' people such as Incontrol and Idra is free speech as well. So yeah, they are entitled to say whatever they please. The community can also express themselves as well.
Also, liking people for the sake that they 'troll and offend people' is basically what kills other gaming communities. HoN for example has a notoriously awful and elitist community. Go visit dotallyrad.com and see the kind of shit that gets posted there to see a community of 'super cool anti-PC people speaking their minds.'
Geoff the thing that interests me is how on earth you can say TB switched from WoW to SC content for the money. His WoW stuff was viewed way more and his WTF is series gets more views then his SC stuff.
Now if you could cite some sort of evidence to defend your point that TB started doing SC content on the sole basis to make money then I don't think you'd be getting the flak that you are. I think most of it comes from the fact that you say somthing that isn't true (TB switched to SC for money) and then try and argue it as fact without anything helping your case.
I'm still a fan but taking an unwarranted shot at someone who does a ton for the community just doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention what you said is completly untrue.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
When progamers stop posting The Haters win - George W Bush
On July 16 2011 10:07 Dental Floss wrote: No, thats stupid. All progamers deserver our respect. No caster would have a job, no production team would be editing audio, no trolls would be calling people nazis; none of this is possible without the players.
pro gamers are entertainers... entertaining people who have spare time and sometimes spare money.
what makes all this "gaming" possible is an economy that creates enough surplus to allow people time to watch and play fun games a lot.
that is what deserves our respect.
next in line would be the game creators....
so without an economy producing at a surplus for millions of people and without the game's creators... none of this would exist.
Inc do you coach for money or for the love of the game? How many players do you have under your wing that you mentor for free in hopes they make pro status?? Wouldn't that tickle your fancy?
None?
Okay well it's that you have a skill!!! A skill that people will pay for! Money! And TB has a skill! Casting!! Match made in fucking heaven I'd say. He saw a game he could cast and be successful at. You saw a game you could coach and be successful at. Problem? I don't see one.
And I dont see many people out there who you could hire blindly for this kind of casting gig..? Hellolol everybody this is Seananners bringing you a tvp on meta...
On July 15 2011 17:48 Wesso wrote: Maybe Incontrol has some inside information, like TB asking more money than others for casting in large tournaments etc. Still strange to say such a thing randomly in an interview, and not at all the impression I have of TB.
I don't think I really need to get involved in this thread in a major way, the community has already made it's stance known and I thank them for that, but I can provide a little perspective on this one.
NASL paid $100 for my casting with Gretorp, for a 4-5 hour job. This is their "standard fee", I do not know what they paid everyone else. I accepted it and added it to the prizepool for SCI.
I spent a couple of thousand to get to Dreamhack, I was not paid for that event. I got VoD rights which meant I could recoup some of it over the course of several months, otherwise I paid my travel and accomodation, rented a car, brought my own gear and was asked to cast on the Dreamhack stream so they received the stream revenue.
As for the other tournaments, aside from IPL who have a tendency of paying everyone fairly, players included as you've seen from IPL's prize distribution, I've made a loss on every tournament I've casted, because it takes time away from doing other, more popular content. Just to clear up some outdated information by some folks, I stopped doing WoW content a couple of months ago because I was no longer enjoying the game. It was a big earner but I cut it entirely, specifically in protest at a move by Blizzard to appease bad players by nerfing the content I enjoyed. I believed this was a betrayal of their statement they made at the start of this expansion, that "Raiding is hard, man up and get better". My primary income at this point comes from my daily Mailbox gaming podcast, my WTF is? (by far the most popular series I do), Terraria and my League of Legends gameplays. Starcraft 2 remains a small portion of my income and as you all know, all my stream revenue funds tournaments so I don't see a dime of that.
One last thing for those with short memories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Rv-s-7rNk - my first Starcraft 2 cast, on Day 1 of beta. As a sidenote of trivia, this cast was featured by Blizzard as a way to help people overcome their fear of getting into SC2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiS9GFNBX0 - the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
I don't think anything else really needs to be addressed, others have said it for me. Look out for a special announcement coming very soon on the tournament side of things!
On July 16 2011 10:46 Castrophy wrote: Geoff the thing that interests me is how on earth you can say TB switched from WoW to SC content for the money. His WoW stuff was viewed way more and his WTF is series gets more views then his SC stuff.
Now if you could cite some sort of evidence to defend your point that TB started doing SC content on the sole basis to make money then I don't think you'd be getting the flak that you are. I think most of it comes from the fact that you say somthing that isn't true (TB switched to SC for money) and then try and argue it as fact without anything helping your case.
I'm still a fan but taking an unwarranted shot at someone who does a ton for the community just doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention what you said is completly untrue.
This.
I don't think Incontrol will respond to(or even notice) your post though. He usually only responds to those who are the most inflammatory.
On July 16 2011 10:40 EnderCraft wrote: "Came for the money" - Opportunity to profit off new game.
Now, TB doesn't make any profit off of SC2, he would be better off producing WoW content. So if he "came for the money", why is he still in an industry that it less profitable to him? Geoff we're not all out to get you here... Some people in this thread are making valid points towards your argument and yet you're dismissing them as forum whiners. As someone who enjoys interacting with the community (some days), don't you feel it would be better to address those points rather than blanket statements towards "the haters".
Would just like to correct your facts here. I do make a profit from SC2 but it's not significant in comparison to my other series. SC2 involves a fair amount of monetary investment, lot of equipment purchased to improve casting quality (for instance I now have a 2-channel compressed audio interface and good quality headsets), travel costs for tournaments, the cost of the tournaments and sponsoring stuff like the UK University Team League, as well as paying half my casting revenue to those who co-cast with me such as TLO and Apollo. SHOUTcraft 2 will definitely make me a loss, I won't make that money back from the VoDs. The profit margin on SC2 is low, as is the income relative to everything else. WTF is makes a pretty absurd amount of money and more often than not, requires no monetary investment. The games are usually provided for free.
But yeah, SC2 is not a charity gig for me, it does make me money, but nowhere near as much as everything else I do. I do have a fairly diverse portfolio of series.
On July 16 2011 10:46 Castrophy wrote: Geoff the thing that interests me is how on earth you can say TB switched from WoW to SC content for the money. His WoW stuff was viewed way more and his WTF is series gets more views then his SC stuff.
Now if you could cite some sort of evidence to defend your point that TB started doing SC content on the sole basis to make money then I don't think you'd be getting the flak that you are. I think most of it comes from the fact that you say somthing that isn't true (TB switched to SC for money) and then try and argue it as fact without anything helping your case.
I'm still a fan but taking an unwarranted shot at someone who does a ton for the community just doesn't sit well with me. Not to mention what you said is completly untrue.
This.
I don't think Incontrol will respond to(or even notice) your post though. He usually only responds to those who are the most inflammatory.
I would like to see an answer to this as well. We must somehow get incontrol to notice this post (the nested quote).
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
You have to be fucking retarded if you didn't realize your statement about TB would bring on a shitstorm. I don't even know how you could answer that question in a more flamebaiting way. I do agree that pro-gamers receive unneccesary flak for some things they say, but this is certainly not one of those cases.
On July 16 2011 09:39 iNcontroL wrote: it's true.. in general tl is spoken as a place we (progamers) NEED to avoid I am reluctant but it truly is stupid that I post here.
giant flash mobs of anger / band wagon shit. eventually all the progamers will avoid interacting with the public and people will probably barely notice but it will be sad...
count the progamers that post here now
This is exactly the attitude that makes me roll my eyes. You think that the peasants are so deprived that we pray every day for the pro-gaming master race to bless us with forum posts, no matter who the individual is or what is being posted.
If you don't want to post here, then don't post here. But don't pretend like you're doing us a favor or something simply by giving us your mere presence.
It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
Coming from Incontrol, this is laughable.... This is a guy that coaches instead of practices as a pro, to make money. This is a guy that got paid to commentate and hype NASL (rather than do it for free like Day9/TB/others have done many tournaments). This is coming from a guy that largely makes his money off of the community rather than giving anything tangible back to it because he isn't even a good enough player to win anything significant and earn money in that regard. He gets paid for his sponsors exposure, so he goes and does talk shows instead of training because he isn't good enough to actually win stuff or place well.
What a fucking joke.
There was absolutely no requirement for you to say something like that in this interview, Geoff. Now you just seem like a massive douchebag, especially considering that you don't actually give anything tangible to this community for free like Day9, and countless others (Mr. Bitter, Artosis, etc.)
where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
On July 16 2011 10:58 Regulate140 wrote: It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
Oh my god... a FULL 100$ for an SC2 GUIDE?!?!?
Wow, now your interview looks thrice as ridiculous.
On July 16 2011 10:40 EnderCraft wrote: "Came for the money" - Opportunity to profit off new game.
Now, TB doesn't make any profit off of SC2, he would be better off producing WoW content. So if he "came for the money", why is he still in an industry that it less profitable to him? Geoff we're not all out to get you here... Some people in this thread are making valid points towards your argument and yet you're dismissing them as forum whiners. As someone who enjoys interacting with the community (some days), don't you feel it would be better to address those points rather than blanket statements towards "the haters".
Would just like to correct your facts here. I do make a profit from SC2 but it's not significant in comparison to my other series. SC2 involves a fair amount of monetary investment, lot of equipment purchased to improve casting quality (for instance I now have a 2-channel compressed audio interface and good quality headsets), travel costs for tournaments, the cost of the tournaments and sponsoring stuff like the UK University Team League, as well as paying half my casting revenue to those who co-cast with me such as TLO and Apollo. SHOUTcraft 2 will definitely make me a loss, I won't make that money back from the VoDs. The profit margin on SC2 is low, as is the income relative to everything else. WTF is makes a pretty absurd amount of money and more often than not, requires no monetary investment. The games are usually provided for free.
But yeah, SC2 is not a charity gig for me, it does make me money, but nowhere near as much as everything else I do. I do have a fairly diverse portfolio of series.
Edited my post. Yeah, I thought saying you don't make any profit off of SC2 was pushing it >.> Should have reworded my post after noticing.
On July 16 2011 10:58 Regulate140 wrote: It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
Oh my god... a FULL 100$ for an SC2 GUIDE?!?!?
Wow, now your interview looks thrice as ridiculous.
Hey man, you can pay me $99.99 and I'll just happily accept it without giving you anything. Oops, guess I'm evil. Shit.
Haters gonna hate, keep doing your thing iNcontrol, the fervor behind some of these peoples posts seems nothing more than an indicator that you're doing something right. Let's seem some big money wins breh.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
Saying he only came to SC2 to make money has no basis, and the fact that money was part of the motivation for getting into SC2 is true for pretty much everyone involved, including you.
On July 16 2011 10:58 Regulate140 wrote: It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
Oh my god... a FULL 100$ for an SC2 GUIDE?!?!?
Wow, now your interview looks thrice as ridiculous.
Hey man, you can pay me $99.99 and I'll just happily accept it without giving you anything. Oops, guess I'm evil. Shit.
And this is related to anything in this thread... how?? Hahahaha
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
Would you say you started playing Starcraft to make money? TB didn't get paid for a lot of his early SC stuff as he wasn't a youtube partner. He did it because he enjoyed it. TB didn't see SC as a get rich ticket for him as you made it seem with your statements. That is where the problem arises. TB didn't come to the SC community to make money he just happens to make some from it. People aren't attacking you because you said somthing they don't agree with they are attacking you because you've said somthing false and even after 30 pages of responses you still try and defend your original statement.
On July 16 2011 10:58 Regulate140 wrote: It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
Oh my god... a FULL 100$ for an SC2 GUIDE?!?!?
Wow, now your interview looks thrice as ridiculous.
Hey man, you can pay me $99.99 and I'll just happily accept it without giving you anything. Oops, guess I'm evil. Shit.
And this is related to anything in this thread... how?? Hahahaha
He's a fanboy using a strawman argument. Even though no one called Incontrol evil, they were simply pointing out the irony of saying someone does something for money by pointing out Incontrol makes money through his own ways.
There are tons of interview threads from progamers every day on TL. Almost none of them result in a huge thread full of criticism and arguments, just look at the other progamer interviews in the first few pages right now. At some point don't you have to say the problem is not the community being out to get you, but what you are actually saying and how you are presenting yourself?
the day I became a Youtube partner, 6 months later. If you don't understand what that means, in order to get paid for any videos you do, you have to be a partner, so I wasn't earning anything at all from it before that. I think you can draw your own conclusions there.
inControL, I think the conclusion from there is that he didn't come in only for the money because he didn't earn any money for the first six months. Anyway that's what I thought he said.
On you're main point I think you're wrong is some strange anti market economy way. I think it's usually better that people come into things to make money since that produces better results in the long run. But that's just my 6 years of econ education talking.
So if I have this straight, Incontrol was wrong about something unimportant and completely unrelated to the the rest of the interview, and people are jumping all over it. He comes in and defends his incorrect opinion and makes himself look bad, and that prompts people to exaggerate his reactions to the point where neither side is making any sense. All around, there's nothing for anyone to gain from this discussion.
Can't we just quote djwheat and say anybody who hates on somebody for making money is fucking stupid? Who gives a shot about who what where when why. Brit gotta eat!!!
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
Indeed, I don't think it would have nearly come across as bad if it were an audio/video interview. Money aside, I respect anybody who puts their time into this industry. SC2 isn't exactly the most profitable area to cover. However, it is the genuine dedication from people like yourself, TB, djWheat, etc. that keeps us returning for more and more content. On the flip side, I feel like anyone who produces content in this industry isn't just in it for the money. Yes, some may have "came for the money", but today's most prominent figures certainly aren't in it for just the money alone; that would be stupid IMO.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
The problem a lot of people are seeing is this:
but I think all criticism is valid, it just depends on how you go about voicing those concerns. But when someone is basically just being a jerk, making personal attacks, making claims about someones professionalism, or who they respect, when those things are pushed too far you risk becoming just some anonymous flamer on a forum.
- By iNcontroL
Either way TB has responded (I missed his post the first time around) and both him and tyler have made reasonable responses in this thread.
Now if only Lidnsey would make a TL account and join the fray :D
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
On July 16 2011 10:58 Regulate140 wrote: It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
Oh my god... a FULL 100$ for an SC2 GUIDE?!?!?
Wow, now your interview looks thrice as ridiculous.
Hey man, you can pay me $99.99 and I'll just happily accept it without giving you anything. Oops, guess I'm evil. Shit.
And this is related to anything in this thread... how?? Hahahaha
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
I wonder if it's dismay that broadcast professionals such as TB and others will come in and replace the old guard who is rather unprofessional, just nerds who were in right place at right time, most ill suited to take SC2 to the big time. Understandable reaction. Lindsey is no threat to inc as she's just eye candy however professional broadcasters/organizers etc are and a little jealousy pops up.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
On July 16 2011 11:27 iNcontroL wrote: PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
The point is that you still had a good chance at making some money off of SC2 considering your BW success, and you wouldn't have joined SC2 competitively if it was a complete waste of your time. However, money is not at all your only motivation for playing SC2, it's just a small part of it(same goes for TB).
Why is money such a big issue, anyway? People need to make a living somehow, why not make a living doing something you love?
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
I think he means educating you on your statement that TB came to SC2 for the money, which Totalbiscuit himself has refuted with reasonable evidence.
Gentlemen, this thread has been going all day long. Can we please just appreciate the interview for what it was and move on? There is no swingset beatdown going on here. Geoff has taken the time to share his views on an event that left many of us with a lot of questions, given the Day 1 issues, and I think a lot of people are discounting that in favor of nitpicking. As anyone who has been around the SC circuit can tell you, Geoff and the rest of the EG family have made vast contributions to the sport. No one is more anxious than I am to see how they take their skills to the next level with the new house coming together. I'm sure Scoots has his hands full at the moment. My hope is that someday our small family can say that we've provided so many years trying to bring more awareness to gaming as a competitive sport in the West.
Please leave the negativity by the wayside in favor of criticisms that will actually impact and enrich this topic. This is TL, let's avoid the poison and get back to gaming. <3
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit. I take less offense to someone like Lindsey, an actress and a model, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get rich but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well.
uh i really like Lindsey but obviously she also benefit from the monetary aspect of SC2 as well as the exposure ( which is exactly what you argued drove TB to cast SC2).
I don't see how they are different in this aspect at all. In fact TB is very dedicated to doing his SC2 stuff well and I can argue he has done more.
If you want to argue that at 12 years old I started playing competitive SC knowing that I could make my "riches" at 25 off of SC2 and I built a career over that span of time purely to do that then please go ahead.
What?? I didn't say that at all. In fact i didn't say anything about you. I only compared TB and Lindsey.
My point was both TB and Lindsey came to SC2 because of monetary incentive. I don't see how one is more noble than the other.
Out of a 4,000 word interview, the community has to nitpick 1 sentence out of 1 paragraph? Just let it go, the article is about NASL, not TB. If everyone actually wants to discuss the selflessness and altruistic actions of each person in the Starcraft scene, go make a thread with a poll of all the major people in the community and settle it there.
Whoa Incontrol, calm down. No need to overreact to people overreacting. The reason why there is so much discussion is because there is a so much interpretation to be made. I think most people here think you don't need to defend yourself, but just explain yourself. Your comments and statements in that interview gave an indepth view of your opinions, but you basically had one line of statement about Totalbiscuit. The problem here is, you didn't elaborate on it further. Since you didn't, people are going to have differing opinions and thoughts about it, and will try to interpret what you said in their own way.
There will always be haters and criticism, so just always expect it. No need to defend yourself or anyone, just move on and improve. You can't please everyone in here or in the world, so don't waste your time doing so.
EDIT: I forgot, and yes I already know you did explain yourself earlier.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
so you're saying you have more respect for lindsey then for TB?
Thing is, INC never explained himself. I have kept up on this thread throughout the day, and have resisted posting as I thought everything I felt had been posted... However...
We have incontrol acting completely hypocritically in an interview... He frowns on someone that joined SC2 just for money? How's Anna doing? I am sure she has a love for esports, right? oh...wait.... On top of that, the statement he made was completely off-base and incorrect, yet he has not justified it whatsoever. The entire paragraph of the interview is a contradiction in and of itself, and it's embarrassing. To top it off, he comes to this thread and belittles those of us that are followers of the esports scene and INC himself.
Thus far, there is no excuse for his behavior in the interview, and even to a lessor extent, this thread. I am VERY disappointed with the attitude INC has shown here, and I feel he owes us and the community an apology.
Sadly, I feel at this point (going from his responses to well thought out comments, not the trolls) that Geoff feels above that, and above the rest of us. He should have apologized immediately, and not offered half-hearted excuses along the way, while telling us how idiotic we are with our disbelief in his attitude toward his statements.
What he said about TB was (and is) inexcusable, and it's time he owns up to it. There was NO reason to single TB out in that interview. None. INC has admitted that, but he has yet to come clean as to WHY he would do it.
It's funny how he mentions that pro-gamers don't post here... Like they have something to hide or be ashamed of, and yet Tyler has posted in this very thread, Drewbie posts, Minigun posts, Gretorp posts, DJwheat posts (Idra used to lolol), etc etc etc...
Simple fact of the matter is that incontrol mistepped, and there has been a (deserved) backlash to his statement. It's up to him to come clean about it, or continue to make excuses.
Geoff, incontrol, I ask you as a man, to step up and admit you are wrong. There is no need to come to this thread and call us all idiots. We are your paycheck, and the longer this goes without you stepping up and doing the right thing, the worse it will be.
Incontrol, I thought your arrogance was just some sort of humour, but you truly are arrogant and cant be a man to say you are sorry for that comment. You are the face of NASL, and you are shocked people are "nitpicking" on one single comment?
I know it feels shit to say your sorry now, since noone likes being forced to say it, so I wont expect it. Maybe try say or show it in bits of pieces, slowly finding a way to increase your respect for TB and what he does for us.
I still like how you just speak your mind, but the backside of it is that we may see things we dont like.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
Yes, he can hate his guts all he wants, for all that I care. And I dont think that many other people would care either, if he in theory hated TB and told the entire world about it as often as he could. If he however says something publicly that appears to be defamatory, insulting and simply just not true, why should people _not_ comment on it? That seems like the decent thing to do, imo, rather then just shutting your mouth and letting what you consider an injustice just happen. No matter big or small.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: where in my post did I say anything about doing anyone favors? Where do I even suggest it? Can you for 1 post try as hard as you possibly can to not be a complete and utter shit head?
@TB's post: There is nothing to refute. He does wonderful things and spends his money doing it.. where the fuck do I say otherwise? I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly. Agree or disagree fine..but how you can hate me and assert I am disrespecting him etc is bullshit. I didn't qualify my statement as some severe level of hate.. I said it was worse to me than X.. who the fuck are you guys to know what level of annoyance I was speaking to?
As clarified here by you, iNcontroL, you respect TB less than Lindsay 'Excellent' Sporrer. Given Lindsay's "performance" at the NASL finals, she is leagues beneath KellyMilkies in terms of respect in the community. By placing Lindsay above TB, you basically give TB no respect what so ever. Now I don't see how you can be angry about people thinking you disrespect TB.
To you and all the guys trying to play down the discussion as 'nitpicking over 1 sentence':
Lets imagine an interview by Naniwa, where he is asked about casters in SC2 and drops the following line: "I honestly take more offense at people taking up casting just to grab more fan attention than they deserve for their playing skill --someone like iNcontroL. I take less offense to someone like KellyMilkies, an amateur player who is loving the game, getting hired for a gig and she says yes not because she’s looking to get attention but because it’s a good job doing what she enjoys and she’s dedicated to doing it well."
Seriously, TL would explode into a similar shit storm defending iNcontroL - and rightly so.
Edit: As for 'valid points iNcontroL should respond to': How does him taking a nap in between MLG matches translate in online viewers not being able to watch OTHER matches while he is sleeping? The only explanation that comes to mind is that iNcontroL thinks that if he sleeps, the MGL tourney is put on hold and online viewers can only watch him sleep. In fact, every other tourney gives more game content per broadcasting time. MLG was in the crossfire for this forever and they set up dual stream and reduces downtime between matches to have a higher game density.
On July 16 2011 18:10 sc2guy wrote: I wonder what is the reason for 2 prominent members from EG ganging up on TB recently? Another here. Very disappointing.
On July 16 2011 18:10 sc2guy wrote: I wonder what is the reason for 2 prominent members from EG ganging up on TB recently? Another here. Very disappointing.
Well, I think there's a mile of difference saying that you don't like a caster, and providing the reasons for that opinion, compared to this this. An opinion is an opinion, but incontrol instead says that TB only joined for the money. It's not even true and I wish that inc could just apologize to TB for this instead of just ignoring the facts provided by TB and others on how his statement is totally illogical.
This isn't about opinions. This is about taking responsabilities for spreading lies, even if it wasn't meant as that or if the words came out wrong in the interview session (could happen to anyone).
On July 16 2011 13:15 Intricacy wrote: Gentlemen, this thread has been going all day long. Can we please just appreciate the interview for what it was and move on? There is no swingset beatdown going on here. Geoff has taken the time to share his views on an event that left many of us with a lot of questions, given the Day 1 issues, and I think a lot of people are discounting that in favor of nitpicking. As anyone who has been around the SC circuit can tell you, Geoff and the rest of the EG family have made vast contributions to the sport. No one is more anxious than I am to see how they take their skills to the next level with the new house coming together. I'm sure Scoots has his hands full at the moment. My hope is that someday our small family can say that we've provided so many years trying to bring more awareness to gaming as a competitive sport in the West.
Please leave the negativity by the wayside in favor of criticisms that will actually impact and enrich this topic. This is TL, let's avoid the poison and get back to gaming. <3
Guy's I didnt like the comment either but its happened, lets move on. If TB's wife isn't raging over this and is infact telling us to calm down maybe you should actually listen to her?
She would have more of a genuine right to be upset over this then any of us
OK, then lets move on to the next topic in this interview: How does iNcontroL taking a nap in between MLG matches translate in online viewers having large pauses in between broadcasted game? In fact, every other tourney gives more game content per broadcasting time. MLG was in the crossfire for this forever and they set up dual stream and reduces downtime between matches to have a higher game density.
Quite respectably said by incontrol.. I was one of those people who was not a big fan of his casting or NASL in general because of the numerous production flaws/audio stuff (I reallllly hope the audio balances/etc are REALLY paid attention to next season, I want you guys to nail it!) but yeah, good quotes.
"iNcontroL: The most fair criticisms most certainly have been focused on the production side of things,"
On July 16 2011 08:03 iNcontroL wrote: WE ARE SO MAD!!!!!!!!
lol did people even read my comments in this thread? Name dropping was dumb and bad. But 20+ pages with a bunch of random posters trying to act like this shit is important is hilarious. I love all the personal attacks btw against me.,.. it's from people upset that I apparently did a personal attack on TB. Then they call ME the hypocrite LOL
iNcontroL is the PR nightmare gift that just keeps on giving.
On July 16 2011 10:58 Regulate140 wrote: It's silly to call out casters for trying to make money off of SC2, it seems extremely hypocritical coming out of Incontrol out of all people. The only reason an EG sc2 division even exists is because of the money making potential in the sc2 scene.
I mean what about http://www.gosuguide.com/? Only $99.99 ! You can't criticize others when you're trying to milk as much money out of the sc2 scene yourself.
Besides that, appreciate the read and info on NASL.
Oh my god... a FULL 100$ for an SC2 GUIDE?!?!?
Wow, now your interview looks thrice as ridiculous.
That's absolutely hilarious. It's like one of those websites where you can buy 'foolproof methods of picking up women' or 'how to make money browsing the internet'. Even the format and the testimonials are the same (and awesome to read), and they're all pretty much scams.
I wonder if the people that paid for their 'lifetime subscription' have received any updates over the last couple of months. Maybe Jake from Atlanta has made it to teamliquid by now and cares to share his opinion?
On July 16 2011 20:52 Derez wrote: That's absolutely hilarious. It's like one of those websites where you can buy 'foolproof methods of picking up women' or 'how to make money browsing the internet'. Even the format and the testimonials are the same (and awesome to read), and they're all pretty much scams.
I wonder if the people that paid for their 'lifetime subscription' have received any updates over the last couple of months. Maybe Jake from Atlanta has made it to teamliquid by now and cares to share his opinion?
may be this is the source of Mr. Robinson's disrespect for people whose motives are purely "making money" ? but these people are frauds. that is not what gives money its value. what gives money its value is productive effort.
in real life chances are Geoff Robinson would be the type of guy who is friendly and somewhat of a corporate politician. basically he'd be seen as a "bit of a bullshitter". There's tonnes of these types of guys every where. On several occasions its been shown Mr. Robinson has committed several small acts of what i'd call "petty fraud". Is he the next Richard Nixon? Should we rename the whole GosuGuide.com debacle as GosuGuide-GATE. Nah, that's going overboard. A few dumb people probably got ripped off a few bucks.
the problem is when you are put in a position as a spokesperson for an organization this "bit of a bullshitter" character flaw gets magnified 1000X over. watching Geoff try to back-tracking out of these brush-fires that erupt on TL.Net does make for entertaining theatre. But, I think people are being a bit rough on the guy.
Watching these brush fires on TL.Net i can see why Blizzard NEVER-EVER issues release dates for their projects. Geoff and the other 20-something year old "eSports elite" around here could learn a thing or two from how the old men at Blizzard run their company.
If Inc had just apologized for his comments and said something along the lines of, "Its tough doing a interview and that statement was a mistake on my part", we would have skipped all of this nonsense and focused on other parts of the interview.
At the moment I feel Inc is still trying to defend this statement with his follow up posts on the forum, which is why this whole thing is being blown out of proportion.
Many have talked about the TB comment, and I guess one more comment about that won't change the world.
But there is another point that I think it's not been seen. While I totally believe that many people in eSports do the stuff they do because they have a passion for it (do you think I earned anything by interviewing Day[9]? No, nobody paid me), there is also another thing.
You live somewhere, yes? You eat? You have bills, yes? You have expenses. If you spend most of your time producing eSports content and you do it so well... why should you not have a return for it?
I am sure all of the pro players, including iNcontroL, don't get paid a dime for playing, they don't have contracts, they don't get sponsored, they just live on air and they don't eat. And I am sure I didn't just see a 100,000 USD prize pool go out to 16 of the best pro-gamers in the world.
While it is absolutely brilliant that many passionate people get involved in eSports because they love it, do not forget that to exist in this world you do need to earn something. I don't think that people who do earn from eSports should be looked down upon, especially if they sweat out their involvement and produce content worth its money.
It's a matter of exchange. You give something to the community, and if it's good content, it's only right to get something back for it.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
It's called slander. This is not the first time iNcontroL was critical of TotalBiscuit and as a SotG listener I've noticed that he does this a lot, not only to TB. Actually SotG frequently spreads gossip without quoting people or backing it up. So hand in hand with iNcontroL's style "I like him/her, but...." slandering someone more than once should be of concern to the community.
There is a reason for double jeopardy in law. Once you prove you're innocent you have to be protected from the identical accusations. TB shouldn't be forced to defend himself over and over, especially when it comes to slander.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
It's called slander. This is not the first time iNcontroL was critical of TotalBiscuit and as a SotG listener I've noticed that he does this a lot, not only to TB. Actually SotG frequently spreads gossip without quoting people or backing it up. So hand in hand with iNcontroL's style "I like him/her, but...." slandering someone more than once should be of concern to the community.
There is a reason for double jeopardy in law. Once you prove you're innocent you have to be protected from the identical accusations. TB shouldn't be forced to defend himself over and over, especially when it comes to slander.
Im pretty sure iNc taking offense to TotalBiscuit is not slander, its his opinion. You can argue either side, while TB doesn't make tonnes off sc2, he does make sme, so in some respect iNc is right, and the truth is a defense.
as for your gossip, do you ever watch tv? talk shows/sports shows, SOTG is like that for starcraft, if they say something completely wrong someone will fix it, but their usually pretty good about it, throwing around the law and slander and shit like that is just being incredibly stupid and is taking this whole thing way to far
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
It's called slander. This is not the first time iNcontroL was critical of TotalBiscuit and as a SotG listener I've noticed that he does this a lot, not only to TB. Actually SotG frequently spreads gossip without quoting people or backing it up. So hand in hand with iNcontroL's style "I like him/her, but...." slandering someone more than once should be of concern to the community.
There is a reason for double jeopardy in law. Once you prove you're innocent you have to be protected from the identical accusations. TB shouldn't be forced to defend himself over and over, especially when it comes to slander.
Im pretty sure iNc taking offense to TotalBiscuit is not slander, its his opinion. You can argue either side, while TB doesn't make tonnes off sc2, he does make sme, so in some respect iNc is right, and the truth is a defense.
as for your gossip, do you ever watch tv? talk shows/sports shows, SOTG is like that for starcraft, if they say something completely wrong someone will fix it, but their usually pretty good about it, throwing around the law and slander and shit like that is just being incredibly stupid and is taking this whole thing way to far
In no respect is Incontrol right. He said Totalbiscuit CAME HERE just to make money when that is simply untrue. Using his time like he has in the Starcraft scene has lost him money when his other series are much more popular and he began before he was even a partner, or could make money off SC2. It wasn't slander really, it was untrue but it wasn't malicious. It was simply stupid.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
It's called slander.
That's going a bit far. I don't agree with iNcontrol's decision to make negative comments about TB in his interview, but you're either blowing this way out of proportion or you're whipping out vocabulary you're not entirely familiar with. Slander is spoken defamation - iNcontrol hasn't said anything defamatory about TB. At worst he's called his motivation for being involved in the community into question.
I'm talking about the law aspect of it because there is no end to this TB - iNcontroL argument. I could say "I accuse you that you cut down trees illegally" and once this is proved/disproved this argument should end. If I'm proved wrong I can't continue with the accusations. iNcotroL is fuelling it by accusing TB on different occasions and now saying he didn't accuse him which is neither fair nor polite, regardless the vague nature of the accusation.
PS:
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
Considering all the gossip in SC2 slander/libel is a strong word, Olinim says it pretty well. It's a stupid and unjust thing to say.
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
so what has he done so you formed the opinion that he came into it for the money?
Why is his opinion about a random caster important? He could hate his guts, and I still don't see why any of us should care.
This is starcraft, not a reality show. There's nothing for anyone to gain by analyzing people's relationships. Sure there's nothing stopping you from discussing it, but at the very least, I don't see how it has anything to do with Starcraft 2 or how this kind of discussion would belong in the SC2 General forum.
It's called slander.
That's going a bit far. I don't agree with iNcontrol's decision to make negative comments about TB in his interview, but you're either blowing this way out of proportion or you're whipping out vocabulary you're not entirely familiar with. Slander is spoken defamation - iNcontrol hasn't said anything defamatory about TB. At worst he's called his motivation for being involved in the community into question.
which is defamation of character, because it makes totalbiscuit look bad, which affects his job. casters make their living off of their popularity, if people believe that TB is all about the money that hurts him for realz yo. its alright calling him out and saying i dont like him, or hes a bit of a cunt or whatever. if you are a random guy its probably even ok to go and say whatever because noone cares what you think. the problem is when you are the face of major organisations, whether its EG or NASL and the sponsors that back them, you cant just call out other people with stuff that isnt even true. its not professional.
for me at least, it wouldn't even be so bad, if incontroll wasnt the kind of guy that gets a hardon for slamming people for their choice of words. but he is, and yet he chooses his own so poorly sometimes. makes for good drama though.
On July 15 2011 22:45 -_- wrote: Just for everyone's information, Totalbiscuit has explicitly -- himself -- characterized his relationship to Starcraft 2 in terms of his viewers. That is, if too few people watch his Starcraft 2 content, he will not produce it. So, Incontrol's statement about him is absolutely, positively correct.
If TB fans have a problem with that, insult TB, not Inc.
You seriously think that if Incontrol had like 20-50 viewers when he streamed, he would continue streaming in the same manner? Now, 20-50 is obviously a unnatural low number, but the point is that if IC had few viewers, he would also stop streaming. So would everyone else, so excplicity point out TB for being the badguy here is low.
Let's say Starcraft 2 dies. Inc gets kicked of EG. Tournament prizes drop to a couple of hundred bucks. Is Inc still posting on TL.net? Yup. Is he still streaming? Yup. Even if it's just him and 10 friends. And you don't know much about Starcraft fans if you think any different.
He would be gone, his drive for money have shadowed his love for the game. He only cares about money now. People like Day9, Tasteless, Artosis would stick around. Incontrol would be out the door the first opportunity he has. He isn't quitting NASL to become a better player, he is quitting NASL because he knows streaming and coaching will make him more money than NASL can. Specially after the failure of NASL in season, there will be even less money for NASL in season 2.
In fact, Incontrol was VERY LATE to the whole streaming thing. He saw that Idra was actually making a lot of money off JTV, so he started as well. He only cares about money.
What a load of total bollocks. A completely over the top accusation backed up by, what? 'Inc quit NASL'? Don't talk shit about the motivations of people you don't know.
(Yes, I realise that's exactly what Inc has done in this interview, and he has gotten the reaction it deserved)
On July 16 2011 11:00 iNcontroL wrote: I merely said he came to SC2 to make money. I then said I respected that less than someone who is hired blindly.
well TB's post clearly points out that he had no intention of making money from doing sc2(his evidence is pretty clear), and just does it cuz he wants to get involved with something he didn't have a chance to when he was a younger lad. people are educating you on the fact, albeit a little harshly, but i think people just want you to man up and just admit that you were incorrect in saying so and that you were misinformed. anyhow i know it's hard for you to publicly criticize the NASL, but stay classy incontroll. unless i'm mistaken, sporrer will try and continue to do this so she can capitalize on the opportunity of fame and fortune off a game she doesn't care about. saying that you have less respect for TB than a girl who got hired for her looks is really a low blow to TB, i hope you can see that.
I can't help you if you refuse to correctly interpret my posts...
"educating me" on the opinion I have? wtf... someone can say I am not that great of a player and I can go "what? I won X and took X place in X event" and they can STILL have that opinion, you realize this right? So please, spare me the "educate" bullshit. You guys overreacted and jumped the gun on a really insignificant thing... read the fucking interview and TRY to find me saying the things about TB you guys think I said. I didn't. And when asked, I explained what I meant AND STILL didn't say anything bad about him lol
PS: People saying I "came to SC2 for the money" are the cream of the crop in terms of stupid. I didn't play bw for 12 years so I can roll in the riches of my EG salary in SC2 and coach for an hourly rate.. lol
That's because money was hard to make off of broodwar... I'm sure you came to SC2 with the chance of making money off of it... Its a new game compared to BW so it doesn't matter if you have BW experience or not.
That's fancy-talk for "get your head out of your ass."
Very, very few people are making a lot of money off of SC2. I doubt that anyone involved in casting or playing this game is making more than they could in a mainstream career, and I know for certain they're working harder for what they earn.
The one exception is Sundance, who is openly involved in the scene as a business investment. I can't think of anyone else whose role in the scene is motivated primarily by profit motive.
On July 16 2011 10:15 fadestep wrote: Incontrol if you want people to stop making huge deals out of you saying dumb shit, then stop saying dumb shit all the time.
If you want people to stop trolling you on TL, stop trolling people all the time.
If you want to be part of respectful and mature conversations, do something to differentiate your posts from that of a 13 year old troll who's never been out of Gold League. Seriously, if you didn't have a Blue Star + Season 7 Liquibet Trophy next to your name I would look at your caps lock, ellipse ridden, bullshit filled posts and skip to the next one.
You are a good player. You are a good speaker. You are an intelligent person. You also behave with a level of immaturity and trololol that is completely not acceptable for somebody who wants to be taken as seriously as you seem to want to be taken.
If you want to talk shit about people, troll, and get involved in forum arguments while looking like a douche then fucking do it. But don't turn around and bitch about how everybody is always so stupid and you can barely stand the idiots slamming you.
Trust me Geoff, if it weren't for the idiots you wouldn't have many fans left. People with brains have been hopping off the bandwagon since Brood War.
~ Used to be a fan
QFT, except for the part about being intelligent and a good player
For everyone thinking that folks involved with SC2 are doing it for the money... please read DJWheat's blog post "Life as a caster" (Click Here). He does a good job summing up how hard it is to do this stuff and still manage to live.
Making money on SC2 is not a bad thing...for all of these guys/gals to put high quality content out there, and to play the highest level games... they need to be financially sound or else they will not be able to spend the majority of their time advancing the eSports scene.
InControl's comments seemed less against TotalBiscuit and more in support of a pageant -girl who is looking to add a little flair to the SC2 community. I don't think it's a secret that InControl doesn't like TB (this is my personal opinion based on what he's said on SotG and other various comments.. I could be totally wrong!), but again I think he's sympathizing with Lindsey who is in a very similar situation to his girlfriend Anna when she started. He could have chosen his words a lot better, and I think the namedrop of TotalBiscuit was a low blow and once that was completely unnecessary.... but I digress.
The conspiracy posts claiming that InControl is "in it for the money" and has quit all shows/media to increase his revenue... are quite sad to hear. InControl has always been vocal that he wants to "win" some large events. He wants to showcase his skills at the highest levels.... with the new EG house.... this is exactly his time to do exactly what he's been saying. While I wish EG members would spend less time putting negative light on other members of the eSports community and more time highlighting their amazing talent.....I really think this interview was interpreted in a far more negative light than InControl had intended.
I definitely hope InControl and TotalBiscuit BOTH make enough money to go 100% into SC2.... they both bring great aspects to the scene, and regardless if they like eachother... they are both enhancing eSports.
PS: TotalBiscuit! That picture you sent Day9 for his graduation was totally amazing lol. Much love to you for what you do in the scene.... I find you often go under appreciated for your work.
PPS: Ditto to InControl! You will be at the next MLG yes? If so good luck, can't wait to see your matches.
Boo-bloody-hoo, poor TB, so unfairly trashed by iNc, when he has said so much about both iNc and Idra in the recent past, even going so far as to create whole Reddit threads about what terrible shitty casters they both are. Well, what did you expect, of course iNc is going to take jabs at him every chance he gets. TB, for such a recent addition to the SC community, certainly wasted no time in attempting to enthrone himself as an almighty drama king and flame veterans all over. He really should stfu and produce more content, he is in no position yet to speak against anyone.
As for iNc, he is a clever guy, he explores every opportunity that he can in order to live off E-Sports, and that's fine, that's the dream, but Sporrer (which was obviously suggested by him, directly or indirectly, even though he doesn't admit it, but he's not fooling anyone) was the final straw, I'm tired of seeing his girlfriend, his gilfriend's friends and his general social circle being pushed into anything he dabbles in. There are many talented, enthusiastic, knowledgeable people in the scene that never get a chance to show their stuff because every position of wide broadcast has been capped by the iNc brigade. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see him practicing full time again, because that means less of his fellowship on air. He is so sly and mercilessly efficient with his connections that it ends up, in my opinion, hurting the scene. At least Anna cares enough to at least attempt to educate herself on the subject, which is commendable, but still sigh-worthy. Sporrer though? Just no. Go away.
Boo-bloody-hoo, poor TB, so unfairly trashed by iNc, when he has said so much about both iNc and Idra in the recent past, even going so far as to create whole Reddit threads about what terrible shitty casters they both are. Well, what did you expect, of course iNc is going to take jabs at him every chance he gets. TB, for such a recent addition to the SC community, certainly wasted no time in attempting to enthrone himself as an almighty drama king and flame veterans all over. He really should stfu and produce more content, he is in no position yet to speak against anyone.
That is true, its been a two way street. Good point.
On July 17 2011 00:02 Carnagath wrote:
As for iNc, he is a clever guy, he explores every opportunity that he can in order to live off E-Sports, and that's fine, that's the dream, but Sporrer (which was obviously suggested by him, directly or indirectly, even though he doesn't admit it, but he's not fooling anyone) was the final straw, I'm tired of seeing his girlfriend, his gilfriend's friends and his general social circle being pushed into anything he dabbles in. There are many talented, enthusiastic, knowledgeable people in the scene that never get a chance to show their stuff because every position of wide broadcast has been capped by the iNc brigade. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see him practicing full time again, because that means less of his fellowship on air. He is so sly and mercilessly efficient with his connections that it ends up, in my opinion, hurting the scene. At least Anna cares enough to at least attempt to educate herself on the subject, which is commendable, but still sigh-worthy. Sporrer though? Just no. Go away.
I'm not a big fan of "pretty faces" being put into the scene just to make it mainstream as well. But.... things like this are actually quite likely to help the scene grow. I'm with you though... I'm more interested in the high end commentary (Ala tasteosis), but I can definitely see that not everyone will want commentary that is this deep as the scene grows. I also would like to see people get involved with the scene based on their merit.... but sadly this isn't how the world works. It's often who you know. Let's just see what comes of it I suppose.
It's a shame that so many people want to quickly try and sensationalise everything and in the process ignooring context and in some people's cases what was actually said.
That said being a total sc1 nub prior to NASL I didn't really know much at all about incontrol, but he has grown to be one of my fav players and personalities in the sc community. It's sad to see the hate and idiocy in this thread, but thanks incontrol you made the nasl fun to watch and have given alot of insite into how these things are put together!
EVERY pro gamer came to sc2 for the money... the game is NEW! ur trying to say u came here for any other reason? You prefer the game over sc1? You havnt spent time on podcasts discussing what could be made better in the game? If the actual game was better than your original game (sc1 for u) then thats a reason to change but its not.. you came here to try and get money (streams and various other projects uv taken on). Your just as new to this game as TB is, just because u have sc1 experience doesnt give you any kind of right over anyone else.
Fact of the matter is, once u do drop all of your other commiments and "focus on gaming", everyone will be able to see how average AT BEST you are then your name will slip into oblivion. Only reason your so well known atm is through your personality, not your performance.
Iv only seen the game VODS as i heard coverage (especially on day 1) was shocking so i havnt had a chance to see the girl interview people but even when your GF (i saw her interview 1-2 times) was interviewing it was cringe worthy, nevermind this new girl who CLEARLY is in it for the money only...
Total douche move to deflect the negative comments directed at that girl to TB... zero reason to name drop that guy who has done a lot more for sc2 than yourself. No reason to name drop anyone at all. I thought you were a funny guy before this but now im looking forward to watching you fail.
and for the record im not a TB fan in the slightest (for his style of casts) but atleast give the man some respect, he has and does do a lot for esports
On July 17 2011 00:02 Carnagath wrote: Both TB and Incontrol annoy me, honestly.
Boo-bloody-hoo, poor TB, so unfairly trashed by iNc, when he has said so much about both iNc and Idra in the recent past, even going so far as to create whole Reddit threads about what terrible shitty casters they both are. Well, what did you expect, of course iNc is going to take jabs at him every chance he gets. TB, for such a recent addition to the SC community, certainly wasted no time in attempting to enthrone himself as an almighty drama king and flame veterans all over. He really should stfu and produce more content, he is in no position yet to speak against anyone.
As for iNc, he is a clever guy, he explores every opportunity that he can in order to live off E-Sports, and that's fine, that's the dream, but Sporrer (which was obviously suggested by him, directly or indirectly, even though he doesn't admit it, but he's not fooling anyone) was the final straw, I'm tired of seeing his girlfriend, his gilfriend's friends and his general social circle being pushed into anything he dabbles in. There are many talented, enthusiastic, knowledgeable people in the scene that never get a chance to show their stuff because every position of wide broadcast has been capped by the iNc brigade. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see him practicing full time again, because that means less of his fellowship on air. He is so sly and mercilessly efficient with his connections that it ends up, in my opinion, hurting the scene. At least Anna cares enough to at least attempt to educate herself on the subject, which is commendable, but still sigh-worthy. Sporrer though? Just no. Go away.
I didn't have anything to do with hiring sporrer or any of the other girls... save for Anna.
Call me biased that we hired a professional interview coach and a girl who has been involved/around SC/SC2 since before 99% of you ever came to this community. She is only going to get more involved btw so keep the "inc hired her" shit away. She is doing this on her own merit.
On July 17 2011 00:48 GoStyle wrote: EVERY pro gamer came to sc2 for the money... the game is NEW! ur trying to say u came here for any other reason? You prefer the game over sc1? You havnt spent time on podcasts discussing what could be made better in the game? If the actual game was better than your original game (sc1 for u) then thats a reason to change but its not.. you came here to try and get money (streams and various other projects uv taken on). Your just as new to this game as TB is, just because u have sc1 experience doesnt give you any kind of right over anyone else.
Fact of the matter is, once u do drop all of your other commiments and "focus on gaming", everyone will be able to see how average AT BEST you are then your name will slip into oblivion. Only reason your so well known atm is through your personality, not your performance.
Iv only seen the game VODS as i heard coverage (especially on day 1) was shocking so i havnt had a chance to see the girl interview people but even when your GF (i saw her interview 1-2 times) was interviewing it was cringe worthy, nevermind this new girl who CLEARLY is in it for the money only...
Total douche move to deflect the negative comments directed at that girl to TB... zero reason to name drop that guy who has done a lot more for sc2 than yourself. No reason to name drop anyone at all. I thought you were a funny guy before this but now im looking forward to watching you fail.
and for the record im not a TB fan in the slightest (for his style of casts) but atleast give the man some respect, he has and does do a lot for esports
I'll skip over the extremely negative tone of this post... (wanting someone to fail?.... really?) But I do want to reiterate the point that there is a difference between "doing something for money" and "wanting to make the best living possible doing what you love". Love or hate InControl.... I doubt he's rolling in riches with SC2. He could go be an engineer or likely even middle-management somewhere and make the same amount of money for less work. He clearly loves competing in eSports and he loves Starcraft..... so coming to Starcraft 2 (the new frontier of eSports) only makes sense.
I hope people can see the difference..... because accusing the personalities in the community about "doing it only for money" is not helping anyone.
I really liked the NASL. Day 1 of the finals was as shaky as week 1, but after that the only thing that happened was lots of awesome Starcraft, and I loved it.
On July 17 2011 01:03 Match wrote: I really liked the NASL. Day 1 of the finals was as shaky as week 1, but after that the only thing that happened was lots of awesome Starcraft, and I loved it.
I definitely agree.... I can't wait for season 2... I'm actually going into withdrawal atm
On July 17 2011 00:02 Carnagath wrote: Both TB and Incontrol annoy me, honestly.
Boo-bloody-hoo, poor TB, so unfairly trashed by iNc, when he has said so much about both iNc and Idra in the recent past, even going so far as to create whole Reddit threads about what terrible shitty casters they both are. Well, what did you expect, of course iNc is going to take jabs at him every chance he gets. TB, for such a recent addition to the SC community, certainly wasted no time in attempting to enthrone himself as an almighty drama king and flame veterans all over. He really should stfu and produce more content, he is in no position yet to speak against anyone.
As for iNc, he is a clever guy, he explores every opportunity that he can in order to live off E-Sports, and that's fine, that's the dream, but Sporrer (which was obviously suggested by him, directly or indirectly, even though he doesn't admit it, but he's not fooling anyone) was the final straw, I'm tired of seeing his girlfriend, his gilfriend's friends and his general social circle being pushed into anything he dabbles in. There are many talented, enthusiastic, knowledgeable people in the scene that never get a chance to show their stuff because every position of wide broadcast has been capped by the iNc brigade. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see him practicing full time again, because that means less of his fellowship on air. He is so sly and mercilessly efficient with his connections that it ends up, in my opinion, hurting the scene. At least Anna cares enough to at least attempt to educate herself on the subject, which is commendable, but still sigh-worthy. Sporrer though? Just no. Go away.
I didn't have anything to do with hiring sporrer or any of the other girls... save for Anna.
Call me biased that we hired a professional interview coach and a girl who has been involved/around SC/SC2 since before 99% of you ever came to this community. She is only going to get more involved btw so keep the "inc hired her" shit away. She is doing this on her own merit.
Ok, you made it perfectly clear that you agree with Russ's decision making regarding Sporrer, would you mind saying how exactly he found her then, if neither you nor Anna were involved in any way, just to clear it up? Because I'm not the only one who is confused about that part and automatically assumed that Anna's obvious ties with many models and your place in the organizational structure had something to do with it.
On a more personal note, I thought you'd left the thread and my above post was more of a general ramble with no clear recipient, so since you are here, let me clarify that I, a no-name casual BW player, casual SC2 player and avid tournament viewer, like you as a player (self-explanatory) and as a caster, you did your job in a mighty fine way and showed massive improvement, starting as "he is meh, but not as bad as Gretorp", all the way to the point where I am already missing your casts. I'm not a hater nor a troll, and from my post above you can take away what you will.
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB.
I'll skip over the extremely negative tone of this post... (wanting someone to fail?.... really?) But I do want to reiterate the point that there is a difference between "doing something for money" and "wanting to make the best living possible doing what you love". Love or hate InControl.... I doubt he's rolling in riches with SC2. He could go be an engineer or likely even middle-management somewhere and make the same amount of money for less work. He clearly loves competing in eSports and he loves Starcraft..... so coming to Starcraft 2 (the new frontier of eSports) only makes sense.
I hope people can see the difference..... because accusing the personalities in the community about "doing it only for money" is not helping anyone.
Firsly the negative tone was intended
I never said he is doing it for a lot of money... he is here for the money though like everyone else. If it was for the competition then he would of went "hardcore" sooner and not bothered with the distractions that streaming, casting and other such projects offer. He is after a quick buck if it can be made as well as the next guy. Also sc1 is a lot harder and a lot more competative so if it was purely about competition then he has clearly taken a backward step.
In regard to the i hope he fails comments, that was OTT but the guys a douche. RTs gaming should be his bread and butter so time will only tell. Will be interesting to see if he gets seeded quite as high when he is out of the spotlight for a while. Then we will be able to see how good he is
On July 17 2011 00:17 baldgye wrote: It's a shame that so many people want to quickly try and sensationalise everything and in the process ignooring context and in some people's cases what was actually said.
That said being a total sc1 nub prior to NASL I didn't really know much at all about incontrol, but he has grown to be one of my fav players and personalities in the sc community. It's sad to see the hate and idiocy in this thread, but thanks incontrol you made the nasl fun to watch and have given alot of insite into how these things are put together!
<3
He wasn't that much different in BW.
He was a bit more of a turd back then though in Clan Wars and Nation Wars. USA-B anyone? He was a good adversary and the teams he led provided good challenges. The only thing that changed was the scale of this community.
I'll skip over the extremely negative tone of this post... (wanting someone to fail?.... really?) But I do want to reiterate the point that there is a difference between "doing something for money" and "wanting to make the best living possible doing what you love". Love or hate InControl.... I doubt he's rolling in riches with SC2. He could go be an engineer or likely even middle-management somewhere and make the same amount of money for less work. He clearly loves competing in eSports and he loves Starcraft..... so coming to Starcraft 2 (the new frontier of eSports) only makes sense.
I hope people can see the difference..... because accusing the personalities in the community about "doing it only for money" is not helping anyone.
Firsly the negative tone was intended
I never said he is doing it for a lot of money... he is here for the money though like everyone else. If it was for the competition then he would of went "hardcore" sooner and not bothered with the distractions that streaming, casting and other such projects offer. He is after a quick buck if it can be made as well as the next guy. Also sc1 is a lot harder and a lot more competative so if it was purely about competition then he has clearly taken a backward step.
In regard to the i hope he fails comments, that was OTT but the guys a douche. RTs gaming should be his bread and butter so time will only tell. Will be interesting to see if he gets seeded quite as high when he is out of the spotlight for a while. Then we will be able to see how good he is
Figured the negativity was intended, you clearly feel strongly about your views (fair enough), but the negativity is just giving people a chance to fan the flames instead of look at the real issues brought up in the thread.
You have a good point about the SC1 scene... but I think the issue is more complex than what is obvious. The SC1 scene in Korea is established... in terms of teams/training/pros and audience. The same cannot be said for the SC1 scene "abroad". SC2 hit the shelves and nostalgia across the "foreign" nations for SC1 rose... and immediately the fragments of the eSports foreign scene were able to bring their existence into a much broader light. It's SC2 that is growing the scene in nations outside of Korea (at least in my view... I never even knew that SC1 had a proscene... but was brought into the SC2 scene quite quickly). So for a foreign pro to enter the new frontier of SC2.... I think it's really about fostering a better environment for foreign eSports and striking while the hammer is hot, and excitement about a new game is high.
Oh btw, I respect people a lot less that cheat on their wives/ girlfriends and then try to keep it a secret - like Geoff 'Incontroll' Robinson, and I respect a lot more people that are open and honest about it - like Tiger Woods.
I don't have to provide any evidence since it's my opinion.
Figured the negativity was intended, you clearly feel strongly about your views (fair enough), but the negativity is just giving people a chance to fan the flames instead of look at the real issues brought up in the thread.
You have a good point about the SC1 scene... but I think the issue is more complex than what is obvious. The SC1 scene in Korea is established... in terms of teams/training/pros and audience. The same cannot be said for the SC1 scene "abroad". SC2 hit the shelves and nostalgia across the "foreign" nations for SC1 rose... and immediately the fragments of the eSports foreign scene were able to bring their existence into a much broader light. It's SC2 that is growing the scene in nations outside of Korea (at least in my view... I never even knew that SC1 had a proscene... but was brought into the SC2 scene quite quickly). So for a foreign pro to enter the new frontier of SC2.... I think it's really about fostering a better environment for foreign eSports and striking while the hammer is hot, and excitement about a new game is high.
Ye i agree its about striking while the iron is hot and the excitement around the new game but he is first and foremost a player.. so surely his priority would be establish a name for himself for being a player (winning things) and not all of these other ventures. <----if it was about the game, competition and striking "whilst its hot" as a player.
Figured the negativity was intended, you clearly feel strongly about your views (fair enough), but the negativity is just giving people a chance to fan the flames instead of look at the real issues brought up in the thread.
You have a good point about the SC1 scene... but I think the issue is more complex than what is obvious. The SC1 scene in Korea is established... in terms of teams/training/pros and audience. The same cannot be said for the SC1 scene "abroad". SC2 hit the shelves and nostalgia across the "foreign" nations for SC1 rose... and immediately the fragments of the eSports foreign scene were able to bring their existence into a much broader light. It's SC2 that is growing the scene in nations outside of Korea (at least in my view... I never even knew that SC1 had a proscene... but was brought into the SC2 scene quite quickly). So for a foreign pro to enter the new frontier of SC2.... I think it's really about fostering a better environment for foreign eSports and striking while the hammer is hot, and excitement about a new game is high.
Ye i agree its about striking while the iron is hot and the excitement around the new game but he is first and foremost a player.. so surely his priority would be establish a name for himself for being a player (winning things) and not all of these other ventures. <----if it was about the game, competition and striking "whilst its hot" as a player.
Agreed, but he's young... I think he thought he could do both tbh. In the last 2-3 months I think he's realized he can't. I support the formation of the EG House... and I am curious to see how it turns out. They have some really cool players.... and if they can get a tight training regime in place... they might be able to do some great things.
Nobody deserves anything. Nobody is entitled to anything. You work for what you get. Respect for every single person keeping this scene alive and even growing.... Regardless of the fact if you are cashing in along the way. More power to you! Fuuuuu
Haha, him trying to row back on the things he said is hilarious. For future reference, an apology would be easier to make and wouldn't take 17 posts in this thread. Perhaps not blaming the community and calling everyone "DUMB FUCKS" would help, too.
This certainly doesn't improve his image in the eyes of everyone.
On July 17 2011 02:22 Xiphiass wrote: Haha, him trying to row back on the things he said is hilarious. For future reference, an apology would be easier to make and wouldn't take 17 posts in this thread. Perhaps not blaming the community and calling everyone "DUMB FUCKS" would help, too.
This certainly doesn't improve his image in the eyes of everyone.
Definitely agreed, incontrol has got too big for his boots it seems, he should show more respect to TB instead of throwing him under a bus
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB.
A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community.
Naw, people are mad at Incontroll because he tried to cheat on Anna by attempting to perform fellatio on a mop in a closet at MLG, thinking it was someone he knew, in between one of his many naps.
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB.
A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community.
While 'A blond bimbo' is an unfair exaggeration of he complete lack of SC knowledge, I feel it describes the label well under which many people filed her away. Lindsay has her qualities, no doubt, but SC2 (and most likely computer games in in general) are apparently not among those. I also feel that many SC2 fans are nerds and the 'beauty queen' to nerd relationship is rarely harmonic. Some users have bias against pretty girls that get paid for theirs looks despite their lack of needed knowledge.
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB.
A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community.
While 'A blond bimbo' is an unfair exaggeration of he complete lack of SC knowledge, I feel it describes the label well under which many people filed her away. Lindsay has her qualities, no doubt, but SC2 (and most likely computer games in in general) are apparently not among those. I also feel that many SC2 fans are nerds and the 'beauty queen' to nerd relationship is rarely harmonic. Some users have bias against pretty girls that get paid for theirs looks despite their lack of needed knowledge.
Well said. The bimbo comment was definitely way over the line.... but your explanation likely sums it all up nicely.
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB.
A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community.
Ahh Dental Floss, your responses are what makes this thread so entertaining to read. You always desperately try to find some irrelevant topic, and argue on the easy side to win just so you can be right about your own point of view. I can see the next one already...
Random TL Member 1: @Random TL Member 2, People like you are the cancer of TL. Dental Floss: @ Random TL Member 1, Oh wow the people in this thread are so ridiculous. You guys think that cancer is just something you can easily ignore like an internet troll? Yeah... cancer isn't a big deal at all...
So just in case you still aren't seeing it... he said "a blond bimbo" which has nothing to do with her being female. A bimbo is simply someone who is inept... not someone who is female. So your argument is that he is a misogynist simply because he called a girl inept at starcraft 2 (when it's TRUE)? Hahahaha.
All you did was essentially say "It is ridiculous that people don't treat women with respect" which is so obviously "right" except for the fact that no one (or at least nearly no one as I haven't seen it) has been disrespectful to women. At the same time you get to be proud of yourself for being "right" and for making a reasonable argument.
While he obviously could have said it in a more polite way, I'm sure anyone would agree that it is true that Lindsey doesn't know much about starcraft 2. I'm not even going to try to comprehend how this entire thread is misogynistic.
BTW this has nothing to do with iNc or TB.
Edit: Oh... and it also has nothing to do with Lindsey either. I'm fine with her doing interviews if it matters.
I think people are most offended because you respect TB (Someone who do's a lot for the community besides ofcourse making a living out of SC/and other games) less then 'A blond bimbo' (Lack of interest in the community and bad overall gameknowledge). This just looks like a small personal stab at TB.
A blond bimbo? Jesus Christ; the misogyny in this thread is ridiculous. I think I figured out why people are mad at Incontrol; he said that he respected a woman. This is clearly unacceptable to the community.
Ahh Dental Floss, your responses are what makes this thread so entertaining to read. You always desperately try to find some irrelevant topic, and argue on the easy side to win just so you can be right about your own point of view. I can see the next one already...
Random TL Member 1: @Random TL Member 2, People like you are the cancer of TL. Dental Floss: @ Random TL Member 1, Oh wow the people in this thread are so ridiculous. You guys think that cancer is just something you can easily ignore like an internet troll? Yeah... cancer isn't a big deal at all...
So just in case you still aren't seeing it... he said "a blond bimbo" which has nothing to do with her being female. A bimbo is simply someone who is inept... not someone who is female. So your argument is that he is a misogynist simply because he called a girl inept at starcraft 2 (when it's TRUE)? Hahahaha.
All you did was essentially say "It is ridiculous that people don't treat women with respect" which is so obviously "right" except for the fact that no one (or at least nearly no one as I haven't seen it) has been disrespectful to women. At the same time you get to be proud of yourself for being "right" and for making a reasonable argument.
While he obviously could have said it in a more polite way, I'm sure anyone would agree that it is true that Lindsey doesn't know much about starcraft 2. I'm not even going to try to comprehend how this entire thread is misogynistic.
BTW this has nothing to do with iNc or TB.
Edit: Oh... and it also has nothing to do with Lindsey either. I'm fine with her doing interviews if it matters.
Oh come on, get over the commentator girl (lindsay?) thing. She was filling time with interviewing irrelevant people, the interviews would have been pointless no matter did them. I mean, does anyone honestly care how random NASL attendee X feels about game balance or whatever?
Even when it comes to interviewing players after a game, hardly anything worthwhile ever gets said, and that's true for pretty much any sport. It doesn't take any special skills to ask someone how he feels after a game, how he feels about his next opponent, what he's going to do with the prizemoney or what he's going to do in the future. Professional sporters just aren't very interesting, due to the fact that sport X/game X is their life. I/we played well is about all you're going to get out of them. Exception being the french dude with his motorcycle helmet, but that would have been entertaining no matter who interviewed him.
The best post-game interviewer so far is probably 2GD (dreamhack invitational), and he's basicly a male version of the NASL girls. Not an abundance of game knowledge, good looking, and entertaining.
On July 17 2011 00:02 Carnagath wrote: Both TB and Incontrol annoy me, honestly.
Boo-bloody-hoo, poor TB, so unfairly trashed by iNc, when he has said so much about both iNc and Idra in the recent past, even going so far as to create whole Reddit threads about what terrible shitty casters they both are. Well, what did you expect, of course iNc is going to take jabs at him every chance he gets. TB, for such a recent addition to the SC community, certainly wasted no time in attempting to enthrone himself as an almighty drama king and flame veterans all over. He really should stfu and produce more content, he is in no position yet to speak against anyone.
As for iNc, he is a clever guy, he explores every opportunity that he can in order to live off E-Sports, and that's fine, that's the dream, but Sporrer (which was obviously suggested by him, directly or indirectly, even though he doesn't admit it, but he's not fooling anyone) was the final straw, I'm tired of seeing his girlfriend, his gilfriend's friends and his general social circle being pushed into anything he dabbles in. There are many talented, enthusiastic, knowledgeable people in the scene that never get a chance to show their stuff because every position of wide broadcast has been capped by the iNc brigade. Enough is enough. I'm glad to see him practicing full time again, because that means less of his fellowship on air. He is so sly and mercilessly efficient with his connections that it ends up, in my opinion, hurting the scene. At least Anna cares enough to at least attempt to educate herself on the subject, which is commendable, but still sigh-worthy. Sporrer though? Just no. Go away.
I didn't have anything to do with hiring sporrer or any of the other girls... save for Anna.
Call me biased that we hired a professional interview coach and a girl who has been involved/around SC/SC2 since before 99% of you ever came to this community. She is only going to get more involved btw so keep the "inc hired her" shit away. She is doing this on her own merit.
Emphasis mine, but that's a rather special definition of on your own merit.
All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
Why do some many people think NASL Grand Finals was such a big succes? Watching the stream from home was horrific. I think that if the NASL wants to try to compete with MLG or Dreamhack or GSL or anyother online or offline tournament they REALLY need to get someone compitant to observer, cast, and produce the stream.
I was blown away by NASL flying Tastosis in, and then having the obviously sub-par Gretorp/iNcontroL duo cast the Final Match?!? Seems like NASL just wasted a ton of Tastosis's time and effort to cast a few games.
The other issue is the production quality. Seriously? You pay over 50k in prize money, but can't afford a legit Pro-Caster machine? Seriously? You have to let TheGunRun (an audience member) try to fix the shit show that was the audio and streaming room... Just wow.
All I can say is : I told you so. I called this from the beginning, even with that first promo showmatch, the production levels were no better than the Grand Finals, doesn't that say something about work ethic and professionalism? I think it does. It tells me that the NASL brand doesn't give two shits about my experience as long as I paid them.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
There is a decent number of us early to mid-20's people on TL that got into SC via BW.
Most of those polls place 22-23 as being the most numerous and sliding off on either side. Mind you they're not scientific, but it's a pretty good indicator.
On July 17 2011 04:06 Chicane wrote: Ahh Dental Floss, your responses are what makes this thread so entertaining to read. You always desperately try to find some irrelevant topic, and argue on the easy side to win just so you can be right about your own point of view. I can see the next one already...
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
Actually he was calling he 'a blonde bimbo' because she was NOT trying to learn about e-sports prior to her interviews. Also only a minority is questioning her general education and probably not seriously.
On a side not: Having visited a US-university, I know that a BS without knowledge of her major/minor is not the greatest certificate of general education.
Why do some many people think NASL Grand Finals was such a big succes? Watching the stream from home was horrific. I think that if the NASL wants to try to compete with MLG or Dreamhack or GSL or anyother online or offline tournament they REALLY need to get someone compitant to observer, cast, and produce the stream.
people are quick to forgive
Day 1 was bad
Day 2 improved but still had some mistakes
Day 3 improved over Day 2 but also had some mistakes
MLG Dallas 2011 was horrific. MLG Columbus 2011 was fantastic.
people primarily want to see good high quality SC2 matches first and foremost. as long as the tournament organizer can make the focus on SC2 matches and not on themselves, the viewers will probably be happy.
matches like Darkforce vs Alive, Sen vs MC, and MC vs Puma softened people's bad impressions of NASL's 3 day finals tournament and turned the focus to SC2 and away from NASL's mistakes.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
Where did i said that? you are just putting words in my mouth. You kept talking about her education and degree when ppl said her starcraft knowledge was not good (the blonde bimbo) thing. Do you think 90% of the nerds who watch it will care what kind of education she had if her starcraft knowledge sucks? no they wont because that is not why they are watching. Don't get me wrong, its great she wants to learn about it but things like this should have been done BEFORE not after.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
Where did i said that? you are just putting words in my mouth. You kept talking about her education and degree when ppl said her starcraft knowledge was not good (the blonde bimbo) thing. Do you think 90% of the nerds who watch it will care what kind of education she had if her starcraft knowledge sucks? no they wont because that is not why they are watching. Don't get me wrong, its great she wants to learn about it but things like this should have been done BEFORE not after.
Do you or do you not think its okay to call someone "a dumb bimbo" because they're ignorant about a video game?
I would say that it is not okay.
I just cannot wrap my head around how people could be so mad at Incontrol for this interview while simultaneously being so callous towards others.
I honestly don't understand how you can be defending Incontrol, if you understood what we're arguing here.
i'll even preface this by saying that I think Incontrol is a better cast, player, , starcraft person overall. I've probably watched ten times as many VODs of incontrol casting than I have of TB casting. I sometimes watch Incontrol's stream despite the fact that I play zerg, and I stopped listening to heavy metal.
That being said, what Incontrol said in that interview is just wrong. Like actually wrong. like, in binary, that would be a 0. He sure is allowed to have an opinion of TB, and if he just said that he disliked TB, that would've been fine (though unprofessional in an interview, so it might've garnered some attention though not this much). But, he can't say something that's completely off-base, furthermore he hasn't really apologized for it, well an apology is a bit too far, but he's never admitted that what he said about TB in that Interview is incorrect.
It's like when Kanye West said George Bush doesn't care about black people. A lot of other people had already spoke about their disdain for Bush's presidency. but you can't just say something like that.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
To do fan interviews?
It's not like she was casting. She was a five minute interlude where we get to "mingle" with the crowd. SC2 knowledge doesn't matter nearly so much as personality in that case. I'm not saying she was the most "excellent" interviewer ever, but her knowledge of SC2 doesn't have to be anything above amateur to do her job.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
Where did i said that? you are just putting words in my mouth. You kept talking about her education and degree when ppl said her starcraft knowledge was not good (the blonde bimbo) thing. Do you think 90% of the nerds who watch it will care what kind of education she had if her starcraft knowledge sucks? no they wont because that is not why they are watching. Don't get me wrong, its great she wants to learn about it but things like this should have been done BEFORE not after.
Do you or do you not think its okay to call someone "a dumb bimbo" because they're ignorant about a video game?
I would say that it is not okay.
I just cannot wrap my head around how people could be so mad at Incontrol for this interview while simultaneously being so callous towards others.
Sigh you really keep jumping from point to point eh. First it was talking about her education, i said ppl don't care and you find another point to whine about. No, it was not ok but it was obvious what he was trying to say.and i can't blame him (did you listen to those interviews?)
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic.
Ya... except it's not at all. Her gender is irrelevant. If a well educated guy who didn't know anything about sc2 started interviewing people just like Lindsey, the exact same comment could be said. (that he is "a blonde bimbo")
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
Lol... you did it again. The entertainment never ends.
The quotes below are paraphrased. Dental Floss: "You are a misogynist for pointing out that she is not knowledgable in starcraft 2, when in fact she is well educated in science." Assirra: "What does her science degree have to do with anything? We are talking about her starcraft 2 knowledge." Dental Floss: "Oh so I guess we should only let pro players into the starcraft 2 scene! Do you really think everyone has to be an expert to enter the scene?"
Once again, you went off topic. He simply said that her education is irrelevant... meaning if she had no education or if she was the smartest person in the world, it wouldn't be relevant information for entering the sc2 scene. So once again... you picked a random argument that you knew you would be "right" in so you could be proud of yourself for a point well made. Lol.
You really need to learn to stay on topic... or maybe not. This is entertaining, though I am starting to get concerned as to whether or not you even understand what you are saying when you type it out.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
To do fan interviews?
It's not like she was casting. She was a five minute interlude where we get to "mingle" with the crowd. SC2 knowledge doesn't matter nearly so much as personality in that case. I'm not saying she was the most "excellent" interviewer ever, but her knowledge of SC2 doesn't have to be anything above amateur to do her job.
In that case she should have kept the interview's at subject's she feels comfortable with
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
To do fan interviews?
It's not like she was casting. She was a five minute interlude where we get to "mingle" with the crowd. SC2 knowledge doesn't matter nearly so much as personality in that case. I'm not saying she was the most "excellent" interviewer ever, but her knowledge of SC2 doesn't have to be anything above amateur to do her job.
I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
To do fan interviews?
It's not like she was casting. She was a five minute interlude where we get to "mingle" with the crowd. SC2 knowledge doesn't matter nearly so much as personality in that case. I'm not saying she was the most "excellent" interviewer ever, but her knowledge of SC2 doesn't have to be anything above amateur to do her job.
ZvG "is this your first NASL event"
i stand my point.
I agree she wasn't even amateur and she needed to know the basics of the game before going out to do interviews. That was stupid.
But with the rudimentary basics down - such as knowing there isn't a "G" race - I don't really care about her expertise. The "blonde bimbo" comments are obnoxious as well.
The point is, her role isn't that of an expert in the slightest. She is pure fanfare. She's almost something of a sideline - a cheerleader. And what's wrong with that?
But it's another discussion for another topic. I think the real point is we shouldn't be declaring who can or can't be a part of this community - or that some merit needs to be earned to be able to do even the most rudimentary jobs. We need to put away the litmus tests and the judgmental attitudes when it comes to something as simple as five minutes of fan interviews.
In that same regard, Geoff should practice some restrain and respect when it comes to his fellow casters (TotalBiscuit). We want e-sports to grow? Then let's be more accepting, less judgmental. Lindsey Sporrer deserved criticism for saying things that were plainly incorrect about the game, but that doesn't mean I don't want to see more of her interviews in the future. She's purdy. Likewise, Geoff may be the more original Starcraft nerd compared to TotalBiscuit, but so what?
We are such nerds. We take offense when the jock and the pretty girl want to partake in our game, we assume they're patronizing us, and we argue amongst ourselves as to which nerd liked Star Wars first or which one just hopped on the "bandwagon". That's what this thread makes me think of, so at least I can sort of laugh at it.
With all that said, I'm pretty sure Geoff regrets his comments, just an unfortunate piece of phrasing. Happens to everybody. He's allowed to not respect TotalBiscuit, but he'd be smart to keep it to himself as I'm sure he knows.
On July 17 2011 05:26 yawnoC wrote: Was I the only person who read the interview and didn't find the comment that bad?
I felt like he only used TotalBiscut as an example because most people would know who he is and would understand what he was saying.
Maybe I expect the most from people though.
LOL! this guy is a better troll than me and incontrol. This thread is comedy gold.
I was being serious.
Yup, doesnt seem like incontrol was just like "hey heres a chance to publicly call out this guy" He probably said it because it was just something he thought out loud, without really researching all (or any?) of the facts, just an opinion based on what hes seen so far, rather than because he dislikes TB.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
On July 17 2011 04:19 Dental Floss wrote: All I'm saying is that calling a successful and well-educated woman "a blonde bimbo" because she is trying to learn about e-sports is misogynistic. She has a BS which makes her more educated than 90%+ of this very forum, myself included.
What does having an education and a degree to do with starcraft knowledge? Next time lets fly a famous rocket sciencetist in to interview players, it would be so much better then obviously.
So if you had your way only people who are already experts would be allowed to participate in SC2? You know for a thread obsessed with defending TB's right to enter the community without being an expert this seems contradictory.
I think TB and Lindsay should be allowed to contribute even if they don't have grandmaster level knowledge of the game.
There is a difference between 'participating in SC2' and 'participating in NASL'. When i watch NASL i expect somebody with at least a descent amount of game knowledge
To do fan interviews?
It's not like she was casting. She was a five minute interlude where we get to "mingle" with the crowd. SC2 knowledge doesn't matter nearly so much as personality in that case. I'm not saying she was the most "excellent" interviewer ever, but her knowledge of SC2 doesn't have to be anything above amateur to do her job.
ZvG "is this your first NASL event"
i stand my point.
I agree she wasn't even amateur and she needed to know the basics of the game before going out to do interviews. That was stupid.
But with the rudimentary basics down - such as knowing there isn't a "G" race - I don't really care about her expertise. The "blonde bimbo" comments are obnoxious as well.
The point is, her role isn't that of an expert in the slightest. She is pure fanfare. She's almost something of a sideline - a cheerleader. And what's wrong with that?
if she doesn't even have basic knowledge about the game and community, then the end result is that people will treat her like pure eye candy which is definitely not a positive.
I've already posted about this before, but the blame ultimately lies with NASL not training her properly. I have no problem if NASL wanted to hire a pretty face to do crowd interviews but to have her go out there with basically zero knowledge of the event & game is very unprofessional on NASL's part.
on her second day of interviews, the positive community reception to her grew immensely because she was actually developing an idea, an understanding of why people were there, why people watch other people playing a game, and what type of game is Starcraft 2.
You don't need any Starcraft knowledge at all to know whether or not to ask if this is your first nasl event. That showed how little she prepared for it
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
I understand that you don't understand what I just said. Please reread my post. If he doesn't apologize then he has an issue with TB and thats ok with me. But it isn't ok to esports, its killing it!!! ^^
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
I understand that you don't understand what I just said. Please reread my post. If he doesn't apologize then he has an issue with TB and thats ok with me. But it isn't ok to esports, its killing it!!! ^^
You might be kidding, but I've seen this come up a few times in this thread alone. People need to stop hiding behind the slogan of "x is hurting esports!" when they have a problem with something. It's a useless phrase that carries pretty much no meaning. If you have a problem with something, talk about the issues at hand.
Seems like an absolutely pointless thing for incontrol to say, I don't understand why he said it. All he was gonna get was flak for the comment, could of avoided all this by being a bit less of a dick
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
I like this guy and the way he thinks.
I honestly think we should just end the discussion here with this post and all move on with our lives.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
The point here being that opinions are not protected by anything. You have as much right to say your opinion as I have to say my opinion that your opinion sucks. I could say I'm a neo-fascist and I absolutely despise babies, but should I? If you voice your opinion in a public interview that a lot of people might read, you obviously want them to see that. Otherwise, why would you even say that?
This isn't a case of us inventing a brain-reading machine and breaking into someones mind Inception-style to find out what they really think about someone else, this is them publicly stating something for one reason or another. Then insulting everyone who disagrees with him.
An apology isn't something you do to keep your job, it's something you do when you feel you were wrong.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
The point here being that opinions are not protected by anything. You have as much right to say your opinion as I have to say my opinion that your opinion sucks. I could say I'm a neo-fascist and I absolutely despise babies, but should I? If you voice your opinion in a public interview that a lot of people might read, you obviously want them to see that. Otherwise, why would you even say that?
This isn't a case of us inventing a brain-reading machine and breaking into someones mind Inception-style to find out what they really think about someone else, this is them publicly stating something for one reason or another. Then insulting everyone who disagrees with him.
An apology isn't something you do to keep your job, it's something you do when you feel you were wrong.
I don't even get the point of your post. You basically agreed and re-iterated everything I said, but in a tone that would suggest you disagree with me. Perhaps my wordy first post was hard to understand, so these are my points:
- Everyone has a right to say what they, that includes both Incontrol AND the people who disagree with Incontrol - Incontrol could have avoided the entire mess by simply apologizing. Note that I am not saying he has any responsibility to apologize - Thus, the continued backlash from him not apologizing should be expected.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
The point here being that opinions are not protected by anything. You have as much right to say your opinion as I have to say my opinion that your opinion sucks. I could say I'm a neo-fascist and I absolutely despise babies, but should I? If you voice your opinion in a public interview that a lot of people might read, you obviously want them to see that. Otherwise, why would you even say that?
This isn't a case of us inventing a brain-reading machine and breaking into someones mind Inception-style to find out what they really think about someone else, this is them publicly stating something for one reason or another. Then insulting everyone who disagrees with him.
An apology isn't something you do to keep your job, it's something you do when you feel you were wrong.
Sorry but this makes no sense. so i can just start insulting everyone and yell crap all i want and hide under "its just my opinion"? I know its the internet but it simply doesn't work that way, even less when you got PROVEN WRONG.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
The point here being that opinions are not protected by anything. You have as much right to say your opinion as I have to say my opinion that your opinion sucks. I could say I'm a neo-fascist and I absolutely despise babies, but should I? If you voice your opinion in a public interview that a lot of people might read, you obviously want them to see that. Otherwise, why would you even say that?
This isn't a case of us inventing a brain-reading machine and breaking into someones mind Inception-style to find out what they really think about someone else, this is them publicly stating something for one reason or another. Then insulting everyone who disagrees with him.
An apology isn't something you do to keep your job, it's something you do when you feel you were wrong.
I don't even get the point of your post. You basically agreed and re-iterated everything I said, but in a tone that would suggest you disagree with me. Perhaps my wordy first post was hard to understand, so these are my points:
- Everyone has a right to say what they, that includes both Incontrol AND the people who disagree with Incontrol - Incontrol could have avoided the entire mess by simply apologizing. Note that I am not saying he has any responsibility to apologize - Thus, the continued backlash from him not apologizing should be expected.
I agreed with you. I just happened to quote your post in the process, lol.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
The point here being that opinions are not protected by anything. You have as much right to say your opinion as I have to say my opinion that your opinion sucks. I could say I'm a neo-fascist and I absolutely despise babies, but should I? If you voice your opinion in a public interview that a lot of people might read, you obviously want them to see that. Otherwise, why would you even say that?
This isn't a case of us inventing a brain-reading machine and breaking into someones mind Inception-style to find out what they really think about someone else, this is them publicly stating something for one reason or another. Then insulting everyone who disagrees with him.
An apology isn't something you do to keep your job, it's something you do when you feel you were wrong.
Sorry but this makes no sense. so i can just start insulting everyone and yell crap all i want and hide under "its just my opinion"? I know its the internet but it simply doesn't work that way, even less when you got PROVEN WRONG.
Sorry if we misunderstood each other, too. I was quoting the post, but I didn't disagree with it. What I meant to say was: everyone can express their opinions, but sometimes do you really need to? And if you do, be prepared that some people might disagree with it.
EDIT: I get it now, forget what I just said. Didn't realize Geoff was referring to SeltzerPlease in his last post. Not Lindsey. Pretty nice verbal landmine though considering this was made in response to someone talking about Lindsey.
On July 17 2011 00:58 iNcontroL wrote:
Call me biased that we hired a professional interview coach and a girl who has been involved/around SC/SC2 since before 99% of you ever came to this community. She is only going to get more involved btw so keep the "inc hired her" shit away. She is doing this on her own merit.
Right? Thats the only girl besides Anna that could possibly fit that description. Certainly not Lindsey.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
My thoughts exactly, excellent post.
Let's end this here, hope iNcontroL learns from this
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
On July 15 2011 16:16 nozh wrote: guys guys guys hold on let me explain; incontrol does all this jetsetting around the world for sponsors and commercials and coaching For The Love Of The Game. he would do it for free if he had to. people like totalbiscuit... man... how shallow. creating content for and interest in the industry for profit... that is so totally "less awesome" than what he and other e-sports lovers like lindsey sporrer do.
please tell me more about how much you do for the community out of the kindness of your heart and not for money at all.
he's such a kind man, does everything out of the goodness of his heart.
just look at where the guy was a little over a year ago. fast forward to 5:50 where he talks about his job at the time.
and look at where where he is now, flying all over the world doing commercials for sponsors and shit! and purely out of the kindness of his heart!!! totally not for monetary reasons, no sir!
This has to be one of the most stupid posts I have ever seen. Incontrol has been in StarCraft since the beginning.. why are you trying to blame the guy for working at GameStop while he is in school, just so he can earn a little more cash? Sure money helped influence him to move to SC2, because that's where the market went, but if the guy has played the game for 10+ years, I'm thinking he is doing it mostly for the love.
Can Incontrol speak without inserting his foot into his mouth ever? He seems like an okay guy, but he continues to make questionable remarks, and then proceeds to argue with people in threads.
I hope he sticks to being a progamer now, he's not too cut out for public relations, because in my opinion he tries too hard, comes off less than genuine, and ends up ruffling too many feathers.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
I understand that you don't understand what I just said. Please reread my post. If he doesn't apologize then he has an issue with TB and thats ok with me. But it isn't ok to esports, its killing it!!! ^^
You might be kidding, but I've seen this come up a few times in this thread alone. People need to stop hiding behind the slogan of "x is hurting esports!" when they have a problem with something. It's a useless phrase that carries pretty much no meaning. If you have a problem with something, talk about the issues at hand.
Well I guess you have been trolled. I am just joking about killing esports. It was supposed to be funny because tasteless jokes with it all the time. I really don't know what are you doing in this thread if you don't know that it is killing esports!! muahahah
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
Really good interview. I find it amusing that people are trying to tie factual arguments for or against him when it's an opinion; I think people on here just like to argue for the sake of arguing. In the end incontrol has his opinions -- and I think we should respect them. I think shunning someone for their opinion is only going to force players to act more political and I really don't want to see it go in that direction.
On July 17 2011 22:52 Anyday wrote: Really good interview. I find it amusing that people are trying to tie factual arguments for or against him when it's an opinion; I think people on here just like to argue for the sake of arguing. In the end incontrol has his opinions -- and I think we should respect them. I think shunning someone for their opinion is only going to force players to act more political and I really don't want to see it go in that direction.
Keep rock'in iNc.
People aren't bashing him for his opinion (that he respects people less for entering the scene for money as opposed to just being hired), he's getting criticism for him saying totalbiscuit came into the starcraft scene for money, which is verifiably false.
Like DJWheat said, the whole Sporrer debacle could have been avoided by just giving her some pointer cards. I mean if you are gonna hire someone with no sc experience you need to tell her exactly what to ask.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
Really nicely put there.
I disagree.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument.
but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry."
That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
I honestly take more offense at people coming from other sports just to make money in Starcraft II--someone like TotalBiscuit.
I don't get this, I dont watch TotalBiscuit, but I do remember that he hosted a tourny in which the ad revenue went back into the prize pool for the next tourney. Granted, he's popular with the WoW folks and has a YouTube following, but is there like any evidence to back this? or could someone elaborate for me?
Yeah, I don't understand this comment either. TotalBiscuit has given way more to the StarCraft II community than he has taken from it. He has sponsored showmatches and tournaments out of his own pocket in the past and he plans on continuing this by using the money he is generating from his stream.to sponsor even more events.
Also, the comment after that about Lindsey doing the NASL event because she's "doing what she enjoys" and not because "she's looking to get rich" is equally as strange. It's pretty clear she did the event because she thought she could make a quick buck out of it. Isn't this exactly the type of thing that iNcontroL takes offense to? People coming from a non StarCraft related background and making money out of StarCraft II?
Such weird comments man...
Except Lindsey was hired by the NASL, so not sure how that fits with iNcontrol's offense?
Will the Sc2 community ever mature to a point where shitstorms aren't created over hilariously trivial things over and over? lol this is actually worse than the Destiny leaves Complexity thread O_O
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument.
but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry."
That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
You just ignore three things: A) The remotely apologetic post from iNc your cited came after many dodging, deflecting and community-blaming posts. B) Based on the facts TB did not move to SC2 purely for money, because it is obvious that other casting avenues would have provided more money. I don't know how much of a part money has played in his switch to SC2, I don't care. But should the falsehood spread, that TB switched JUST for the cash, it could directly hurt his popularity and his income. Thus it just seems fair that the things that are obviously not true are retracted. C) The Sporrer-comparison. From her interviewing performance, I highly doubt that she is in for anything but cash and attention. So placing her over TB is just wrong.
To sum it up, you could form the following line with the fallacies of iNc's interview: iNcontroL is a bad player (exaggeration - he plays some great, some good, some bad) and respect [insert random silver league toss] more for his playing skills.
Ok Ok Ok now seriously this is the godamn final straw, before I was sad and empathatic towards the faults in the NASL... But this just fucking ruins my day, I have watched like 3 live events of the NASL (sweden time fails at US time) but I managed to watch a match or two of the finals event.
But only a match or two, I have done my outmost best to not have anything spoiled.
So now, I'm finally finished with my exams, I buy some beers and I get home to really savor the whole NASL finals event. I remember someone telling me you have to go through Justin.tv to find the vods but I know they post them in chronological order and the NASL is fucking abhorrent at not naming the vods "Semi Finals" and instead they write "MC VERSUS THIS GUY, LOLOLSPOILER FUCK YOU", so I thought "Hey I'll go to their site, they must've learned something from the GSL where you can easily watch the finals two weeks after it had happened and still manage to not have it spoiled."
What do I see? What the fuck do I see? First I see "FINALS MATCH PUMA VS MC!" And I think "Fucking fuck fuck fuck piss fuck fuck, now the whole finals are spoiled. Well atleast I can watch the final match and get excited at who might win, I've heard the games were awesome." So I scross down to press the video.
Guess what? Right bellow it is the brackets, with a huge fucking glowing "PUMA CHAMPIONSHIP WINNER!"
Seriously I apologize for swearing so much but this just makes me so fucking bitter and pissed off, I've tried to support the NASL throughout their mistakes, even though they kept spoiling matches that I really wanted to see. But ruining the finals like that, on the front page of their own godamn site? Seriously what the hell are you guys thinking? What idiot would pay for season 1 if all the results are already posted right at the very first page that he might try to do so? And justin.tv vods are even worse.
I'm just sad and pissed because even through all the whine and the forum trolling everyone has done, I can still enjoy the matches, I could've still done what InControl implored us to do; Just enjoy the good games for what they are regardless of the NASL's faults...
InControl... I really wish I could've. But you guys ruined it.
TLDR: Had the finals spoiled because the NASL website is a fucking monument to spoiling and pissing people off. Don't care anymore, fuck the NASL in the future. Aslong as their site and vod system is a godamn abomination I'll continue to not just be neutral to them but actively dislike them since I paid for this and all I got was spoiled vods and games throughout the entire damn season.
On July 17 2011 05:46 uzas wrote: I am really sad to hear this, bashing fellow casters for no good reason. It really doesn't matter who the caster is, just as long there is stuff to cast and the community grows. The name droping in an interview is really unprofessional for a NASL representative. If he doesn't make a public apology to TB then he really has an issue with him and thats just plain stupid. From what I read there really is an issue. Money is what is needed in this life, and with esport growth theres gonna be much more money. You got to fight for it, not cry like a fucking baby. You are all killing e sports!!!!!!!!!!! xD
a puplic apology... where are we ? politics? Incontrol doesnt have to do anything. He doesn't work with NASL anymore, so it's just between him and TB. Then again he already said, that it was a mistake to write this part down. He doesn't owe anyone anything and really deservers some major applause for what he has done for the community.
People always focus on the "bad" part and totaly overlooking everything else. Like in this thread: sooooooo many pages about a little topic in this big interview.
Public apologies are only for politics? Fact of the matter is he doesn't have to do anything, but likewise we as fans and viewers can have our own opinions as well, and the general tone of this thread shows clearly that it's negative. So no, he doesn't HAVE to publicly apologize, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a wise or decent thing to do.
Thing is, he is right that this entire thing was blown way out of proportion, but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry." Instead he got defensive, tried to play semantics and justify what he said, and basically turned it into a debate/argument (then later becomes exasperated at the fact that people are debating/arguing with him.)
Case in point, if you're going to publicly share your opinions, then be prepared when people (in this case quite a few people) disagree with them. It's really as simple as that. I don't know why Incontrol and his defenders are scratching their heads wondering "Why can't I share my opinion with zero backlash and complete acceptance and obedience from the community?!"
Really nicely put there.
I disagree.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument.
but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry."
That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
You just ignore three things: A) The remotely apologetic post from iNc your cited came after many dodging, deflecting and community-blaming posts. B) Based on the facts TB did not move to SC2 purely for money, because it is obvious that other casting avenues would have provided more money. I don't know how much of a part money has played in his switch to SC2, I don't care. But should the falsehood spread, that TB switched JUST for the cash, it could directly hurt his popularity and his income. Thus it just seems fair that the things that are obviously not true are retracted. C) The Sporrer-comparison. From her interviewing performance, I highly doubt that she is in for anything but cash and attention. So placing her over TB is just wrong.
To sum it up, you could form the following line with the fallacies of iNc's interview: iNcontroL is a bad player (exaggeration - he plays some great, some good, some bad) and respect [insert random silver league toss] more for his playing skills.
A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope.
On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote: A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope.
A) I misremembered the order.
B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc:
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point?
C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point?
C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another.
B) Woops ^^. Well I guess that's one more thing I disagree with Inc about in this whole thing.
C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
I don't care so much about iNc's opinion. He could say "TB is a bastard and I hate his guts" I wouldn't have cared so much. He said something that has been shown to be untrue and that could do lasting harm to reputation and career.
We also all know how to take an enraged Idra. In this case his reputation helps him and he is usually just insulting. Different matter here.
Also I still wanna know how the 'I can nap during MLG, so NASL final had more content density' is supposed to work.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument.
but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry."
That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
Incorrect. He tried to justify his original opinion with more opinions. And opinions can be argued and debated. Meaning he left it open to more argument and opinion. The first rule of communication is if you don't want to argue, then don't leave room for argument. A statement such as "I didn't mean it like that, sorry" is concise and leaves no room for argument. That's the difference.
Did you know that it takes about 2 hours to read through this thread from post 1?
Amazing.
I just wasted an entire evening.
I can see how Incontrols words can be interpreted in a few ways and leave a lot of room for discussion, but they are still not as bad as most posts in this thread make it out to be. Also, an interview is taken live, so little mistakes are also captured without any visual communication or intonation. I can say jokingly that I find day[9] a complete assh*le after beating me with a cannon rush, and if that is than published it will look poorly obviously. But when streamed live with both of us laughing, it would just be a fine.
And he also acknowledged TB adds a lot to the community, so that is cleared up. For arguments sake, "respect less than" is relative. As Zero Punctuation once showed it:
Scale of good: HELL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WoW >>>>>>>>>>>> TB > HOT CHICK >>> PORTAL > JESUS
So being less respected (in his opinion, as obviously this scale is something everyone decides for himself) does not automatically place him in the "scum of the earth" category.
So yeah, after wasting my evening on this, I did manage to at least put something in a post that makes some sence.
TB <3 Btw. I just hate how he keeps making me buy indie games.
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
This is hardly defensive or trying to start a debate or argument.
but it could have ended with his first reply by simply saying "I didn't mean it like that, sorry."
That is exactly what that post is, and it could and should have ended there. But now skip forward to the latest pages and there are people saying 'I think he should publicly apologise!', for some mental reason.
Incorrect. He tried to justify his original opinion with more opinions. And opinions can be argued and debated. Meaning he left it open to more argument and opinion. The first rule of communication is if you don't want to argue, then don't leave room for argument. A statement such as "I didn't mean it like that, sorry" is concise and leaves no room for argument. That's the difference.
That's not concise, it just lacks information. Surely explanation is preferable to simple denial?
On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote: A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope.
A) I misremembered the order.
B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc:
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point?
C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another.
B) Woops ^^. Well I guess that's one more thing I disagree with Inc about in this whole thing.
C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
The thing about Idra bashing players and incontrol bashing people are different because Idra actually has skill to back his opinion up.
On July 18 2011 20:40 The KY wrote: A) That is his first post in this thread, on page 2. I don't know what you are talking about.
B) No one said 'purely' for money, at any point.
C) Do I think it was a dumb and unneccessary comparison? Yep. Do I think it warrants how many fucking pages of hysterical bashing? Nope.
A) I misremembered the order.
B) Let me bring up the post you quoted from iNc:
On July 15 2011 13:10 iNcontroL wrote: tb didn't move to sc2 because he has always had a passion for sc guys.. he did it to make money. Giving money back to the community is awesome.. but it isn't 100% selfless so please don't act like it is.
I was asked if I take offense to Lindsey being hired by an SC2 league.. I pointed out that I don't and I take MORE offense to people moving to the SC community purely to make money. If they do great things while doing that wonderful.. we all benefit. But I prefer those that were here from the beginning. I don't hate TB or anything like that at all.. I just find it less awesome is all.
No one said 'purely' for money? Not at any point?
C) I also don't think it warrants constant bashing, but I think it warrants an apology/retraction. I don't think the reaction it because of iNc or TB specifically, but the outcry when one community figure slanders another.
B) Woops ^^. Well I guess that's one more thing I disagree with Inc about in this whole thing.
C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
Ok man we all get that he doesn't have to apologize but THEN HE HAS A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH HIM. And inc said that he doesn't have any problem with TB and that its all overblown. Do you get my point? You tell me why didn't he apologize for bashing the man on some NASL interview that has no fucking deal with TB? He didn't cause he has some fucking grudge and instead of bashing the low production NASL he bashed some individual who makes money of sc2 and he doesn't love the game as inc does. Hilarious.
On July 18 2011 21:01 The KY wrote: C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
They both probably should, actually. All of those are the examples of extremely stupid things to say and/or do in public and does not reflect well on either of them at all (or their team and sponsors).
But it doesn't matter much, as a "public apology" is not really going to be taken as a honest one even if it were given. Not saying or doing similar things in the first place would be much more beneficial to them than apologies later on (not that there ever are any anyway).
On July 15 2011 13:06 Demonace34 wrote: I believe that Lindsey is Anna's friend though, so it isn't much of a surprise that he is defending her. I think he made a good point about Lindsey, but probably should of just kept the TB line to himself. Either way, just take it as bad blood and move on.
Not true, Linsday meeting Anna was caught on came and Linsey didnt know who the hell Anna was and they had a little 'OMG Squee' Beauty Queen moment.
I really dunno what was up with the TB comment, the dude has done alot for SC2 + E-sports as already been said.
Linsday Sporrer was a bit insulting. " Hey guys, look an attractive girl, stop complaining and drool over her, you fucking nerds."
Was Incontrol just trolling us? He seems quite intelligent, yet thick about the comparison between TB and LS.
On July 18 2011 21:01 The KY wrote: C) He's not an elected official, there's no reason to publicly apologise for offending anyone. Perhaps we should get IdrA to publicly apologise for insulting all those terrans post release, or telling his fans to PM Chill after calling Cruncher a waste of life or w/e, or some of the things he's said about TotalBiscuit?
They both probably should, actually. All of those are the examples of extremely stupid things to say and/or do in public and does not reflect well on either of them at all (or their team and sponsors).
But it doesn't matter much, as a "public apology" is not really going to be taken as a honest one even if it were given. Not saying or doing similar things in the first place would be much more beneficial to them than apologies later on (not that there ever are any anyway).
Heh...ok dude, if you feel like you need an apology for every bad thing every community pillar ever says, then I guess we're living in different worlds.
If you feel that a public apology is needed, then you are implying that there are a significant number of people who feel personally offended by this. Do you feel hurt and offended? Would an apology make it a little more bearable? Because I put it to you that anyone except TotalBiscuit who in any way feels they need to be apologised to is so oversensitive that it's ridiculous.
The idea of Inc actually coming out and saying 'I apologise, sincerely, to TotalBiscuit, his fans, my mom, America, Jesus...i have let you all down.' I mean, I thought it was batshit crazy when Tiger Woods apologised, but this!
Incontrol describes hiring a hot babe who knows nothing about SC2 as an "unusual but smart move". "Some things that might seem silly or small, for instance bringing Lindsey Sporrer in and getting her involved in the role of interviewing and hosting, that’s something other sports have gravitated to but in Starcraft we really haven’t seen that move before, a move toward having a female identity and presence that’s anything more than just a pretty face and that was an intelligent decision, "
Let's see what the CEO of MLG has to say about it.
" MLG's casts are already made of individuals famous overseas such as Tasteless and Artosis. In the case of female cast members, I think what's important is to have people who know a lot about the game to increase the quality of production. You have to think of it within that scope of not damaging the production. I think NASL lacked the professional experience to a certain extent in that regard. "
I bet MLG makes more money this year than the NASL... if the NASL even exists by year's end.
I trust Sundance's comments far more than Incontrol's.
Sundance must be careful and measure every word because of his leadership position at MLG. The official translation of Sundance's criticism of the NASL is this: "NASL looked like total idiots putting that bimbo on the show"
If you're going to get mad about people getting into an e-sport because of the potential for profit, what is the point of supporting the e-sports community? So it can be a club of people chilling in their basement? When profit is involved, we get stuff like MLG, where it's a huge community of people NERDCHILLING in an awesomely public venue!
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fvHwP.jpg)
) seriously, he should start his own league.
![[image loading]](http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6207/totalbiscuitmoney.jpg)
